Retired Generals, Including Zinni are calling for Rumsfeld's resignation..

[FrenchieCat]

Poll question: Retired Generals, Including Zinni are calling for Rumsfeld's resignation..

Losta news on the Telee today about this story. Retired Generals are demanding that Sec. of Defense Rumsfeld resign.

Hence this Poll and the following question--

Would Rumsfeld's resignation change the direction of what is going on in Iraq or Iran? Would it demonstrate accountability from this administration? Is it something that would bring you some long sought after satisfaction?

PS. Clark called for Bush to Fire Rumsfeld in November of 2003, and said it would be patriotic for Rumsfeld to resign in May of 2004, but that the President was the one truly responsible for the mess!

Monday ::September 29, 2003
WESLEY CLARK: WOULD FIRE RUMSFELD
Gen. Wesley Clark, told a New Hampshire audience Friday night he had only fired one person in his life. On Saturday he said he wanted to fire a second person: Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.

When asked at a house party on the Seacoast about what he would do in Iraq if elected president today, he was met with applause when he said, "First of all I would change the Secretary of Defense. Then I would go to the commanders of the ground and go to Iraq myself personally and I would develop an exit strategy that gives us a success and lets us downsize our commitment there."

Besides Rumsfeld, Clark also criticized Bush's National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice for her views of the world and then U.S. House Majority Leader Tom Delay, also a Republican, for his vote on a measure involving Kosovo.

In Washington Saturday, Clark said Americans are embarrassed by Bush.
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/003860.html

on Meet the Press - shortly after Abu Grahib were made public
May 9, 2004
Russert: General Clark, do you think Secretary Rumsfeld should resign?

Clark: I think it would be very patriotic if Secretary Rumsfeld resigned. But I do think that the issue goes beyond the secretary of defense.

that when something like this happens that the prima facia notion of this goes right to the top.

What did the president know? What was the atmosphere that the president created? How hard was he pushing?

The atmosphere in which the Geneva Conventions were more or less set to one side, apparently, would have come from the top.

[AndyTiedye]

1. Rumfelled Has Demonstrated That He is Not Qualified For His Position

We need a competent Secretary of Defense. Rumfelled isn't.
For that he should be fired.

For torture and other atrocities in the conduct of his position,
he should also be sent to the Hague and prosecuted for war crimes.
Along with Bush**, Cheney, Rice, Powell...

[FrenchieCat]

2. You don't care if Rumsfeld goes, it may allow Bush to come up

"born again" just in time to campaign with GOP candidates for 2006? You know how stoopid the public is. They'll think that the real Fuck-Up is gone...till the Fuck-Ups that are left continue to well.....Fuck up.

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. maybe it's best to leave him there - a poster boy for the F****d-up Right

Hate to see Bush get a bump in the polls if Donald the Terrible quits.

[FrenchieCat]

4. That's what I'm thinking.....

Cause Rumsfeld is old....and he can just "Resign" and go and work for Halliburton or some other Defense Contractor and make Gazillions!

.....and Bush will be a new Born Babe in the eyes of the fools a.k.a. Voter Mass with the help of the Oh so Unhelpful Corporate media!

Media will announce that the Admin has Cleaned House!

Then The "New" White House pulls a few Thousand troops out of Iraq temporarily (until after the election)....which gets lotsa coverage....and guess who doesn't win the house back?

[Capn Sunshine]

10. Actually Rummies industry of choice is big Pharma

but yeah, he's a great poster boy for the Fucked up state of things in the Administration.

The stuff that comes out of his mouth is unbelievable. It's certainly fertile ground for a creative film editor who wants to show the many sides of the Iraq issue, using only the multi-faceted Rummy as spokesperson.

And good for Clark. I wish he'd say that on Faux.

[fedupinBushcountry]

5. He should of stepped down a long time ago

On a side note. John Kerry was the first to say he should resign, Dean followed.

Dean, Kerry call on Rumsfeld to quit
Defense secretary accused of ?pattern of deception? on Iraq


The Associated Press
Updated: 12:56 p.m. ET Sept. 26, 2003

WASHINGTON, Sept. 26 - Democratic presidential candidates Howard Dean and John Kerry have called for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign, citing a ?pattern of deception? in his statements on Iraq and a failure to plan for the postwar period.

KERRY, A SENATOR from Massachusetts, first said Thursday that Rumsfeld should step down, saying he proceeded in Iraq ?in an arrogant, inappropriate way that has frankly put America at jeopardy.


Dean, the former governor of Vermont, joined the call Friday and added Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz to the list of those who should quit. Dean announced that he was starting a national petition drive on the Internet to demonstrate support for their resignations.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3087318/

[FrenchieCat]

7. In reference to your aside....

Clark was the first and only to suggest that Rumsfeld should be FIRED as far back as the year 2003!....which was more appropos, IMO! Asking someone to resign is more passive...especially when they have really F*cked up!

Has Bush ever fired anyone? I can't seem to recall.

[karynnj]

9. Kerry called for him to be fired

in 2004. Even here, it is customary for people to "resign" even when they are told to. In major companies failed exutives "resign" as well.

[blm]

20. Kerry called for Rumsfeld's firing after Abu Ghraib - he and Clark are

almost always on the same page on security issues, so it's no surprise that they would have come down on the same page, yet again.

[Adelante]

6. FIRED, yes

Bush must be held responsible. Rumsfeld resigning lets Bush off the hook.

[TayTay]

8. I didn't answer in your poll

My option would be: fire Rumsfeld because he is responsble for most of went wrong in Iraq.

Rumsfeld is the one who demanded that the Pentagon keep reducing the number of troops they would use to invade Iraq. Rumsfeld is the one who has been consolidating power that tradtionally was located in the State Dept into the Pentagon. And Rumsfeld is probably the one who 'approved' Condiliar Rice for Sec of State when Powell left because she is so eager to give power up to Defense.

Rumsfeld, all by himself, is a massively incompetent bastard who will have a lot to answer for in hell.

[Jai4WKC08]

18. Bush is the commander-in-chief

He is responsible for every decision Rumsfeld makes. Every single one. Even the ones he doesn't know about. That's the way the Department of Defense works.

Rumsfeld is a bastard and ought to go. But the push to dump him exists largely to divert attention from Bush's failures. Average American voters would rather blame Rumsfeld and keep their confidence in the President.

Since Rumsfeld has no political aspirations of his own and his popularity will not have much effect of congressional elections, the administration is perfectly happy to have him there to take the heat.

[Donna Zen]

11. Can we fire the policy?

Rummy is completely insane, but in the end it all comes down to policy. Firing Rummy assures us another rightwing nut job and the same ole policy: preventive war, the chimp takes no blame, and the quest of American empire. Nothing changes, but the creeps will tell America how everything is better now.

Rummy goes on a "poor-me" pity party around the US with a book tour and speaking engagement at $500,000 a pop.

I doubt that bush is capable of nominating a sane person...hell, he wouldn't know sane if it bit him in the ass.

[Disturbed]

12. Rumsfailed should be Impeached.

Charles Rangle has drawn up Impeachment Articles regarding Rumsfailed. Yes, a Sec. of Defense can be Impeached. Impeachment would bring out the crimes that Rumsfailed has commited. He should not be allowed to resign without criminal charges being brought.
Rumsfailed Admitted to Violating Geneva Convention




Rumsfailed admitted in public on TV that when CIA Director Tenet requested that an Iraqi prisoner be sent to a secret Afghan/US Prison that Rumsfailed did so. After four months a DOD Attorney stated that this was an illegal act. Rumsfailed then ordered that this prisoner be sent back to Abu Graihib but the prisoner was purposefully not listed at that location, also an illegal act. Rumsfeld also admitted to signing orders for tougher interogation methods which violated the Geneva Conventions.

Rumfailed has commited at least three violations of the Geneva Convention thereby also violating of The Constitution of the USA. Recently it has been found out that even more detainees were "ghost detainees". The fact that Rumsfailed and Tenet have not been charged speaks volumes. If Congress wishes to garner any respect they should move forward with Rep. Rangle's Impeachment Declaration of Rumsfailed and also prosecute Ex. CIA Tenet.

The US, Govt., Congress, and the Justice Dept no longer abide by the Geneva Convention or the Constitution of the USA.

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. That would be perfect. No "lift" for W from that route n/t

[FrenchieCat]

14. Yes....wouldn't that be something. And of course, Bush and "them"

would have to be called to testify....and they'll get tripped up in more of their lies....and maybe we can watch them all go down. :thumbsup:

[Adelante]

15. Oh, I did not know

Yes, I like the idea of impeachment best now. And I love Charlie.

[Clarkie1]

16. Rumsfeld should have resigned as soon as evidence of torture was found.

It would have greatly improved our image and moral standing in the eyes of the world. That was a time when we needed to show the world how grave we regarded these crimes against humanity.

[Jai4WKC08]

19. Clark said basically the same thing

For basically the same reason.

Paraphrasing from memory...

On MTP back in April 04, when Abu Ghraib was in the news, Clark said that Rumsfeld tendering his resignation would be "the patriotic thing to do," since it would have helped convince the rest of the world that we were serious about condemning the torture.

But Clark went on to say it really wouldn't make much difference about the policy itself, since that came out of the White House itself.

[alfredo]

17. Soldiers are loyal to other soldiers before they are loyal to

suits in Washington. They expect some incompetence from the suits, and accept it, but when they start to really screw up, putting soldiers in greater danger than need be, they will unite with their fellow soldiers. Yes they are fighting for their country, but when the chips are down, they are fighting for their comrades. It becomes personal.

bush and rummy should take the retired generals criticism seriously. They are not only speaking for themselves, they are talking for and at the behest of those who cannot speak up.

[0007]

21. It is more than Rumsfeld's resignation. It is about war crimes!

Crimes against humanity and failing to heed the wisdom of his Generals.

Some would say that Rumsfeld belongs in an insane asylum.

Some would say that Rumsfeld should be in the Hague.

Some say that Rumsfeld should face a firing squad.