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HardWorkingDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:33 PM
Original message
Screw Colin Powell......
This man can go take a flying leap for all I care. He is a chickenshit that failed to do any good when he could have made a difference.

I've seemed to notice a sort of forgiveness behavior of some of the fine people here at the DU when a Bushy seeks redemption and claims, "it wasn't me, I was against it all along." Now, I take this forgiveness to be out of the good hearts here at DU, but this man had a responsibility to the soldiers and if he lacked the balls to stand up to Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush, then fuck him. He was supposedly a combat veteran who let his allegiance fall to those who have never fired a shot in war and sold the soldiers down the road, so let him look for forgiveness elsewhere.

Bastard.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yep.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. He so wanted to be Bush's.....
'good little soldier' that he allowed himself to be manipulated and become a mouth-piece for the Bush war machine. He'll get no forgiveness from me. :mad:
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wake.up.america Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. His stupid career was more important than thousands of lives...
Edited on Thu Apr-13-06 12:41 PM by wake.up.america
If any high-powered people are reading this, I hope this makes you think twice about going along for the ride.

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NoAmericanTaliban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. Agree. His chances of running for Prez are over...
Claims to be a good soldier by not criticizing Bush and going along with it. He is an enabler to bad policy. Powell is a political animal who benefited from affirmative action programs.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Guilt ridden confessions no doubt
I'm all for any former or current BushCo staff speaking out and I'm happy to see Powell doing this as well. He must know that these late confessions do not wash the blood of thousands from his hands.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. I won't forgive him - I better understand why he was saying
it wasn't a done deal on war, and passing that along to senators who expected real diplomacy, but what does that say about him that he sat with these people for months and never picked up that they were lying TO HIM, even?
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. anyone watching C span
just finished they had on Col. Wilkerson on, just finished now. Was excellent, he said Rice is not Colin Powell.
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datadiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. From what I've read
An officer's first duty is to the Constitution, not the president. So does this make him guilty of Treason?
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. I'll say! Colin hung with the criminals and did their bidding.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. Maybe, but I'd rather Admin officials seek redemption while * is still in
office than to try to come clean after * is sipping wine-coolies while tanning on a Carribean tax shelter.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
10. IMO... Powell Was Just Another Schill... He Could Have
spoken up a long time ago, and furthermore he should never have gone to the UN!

Only NOW, when OTHER generals are dissing The Idiot does he come forward!

TRAITOR, and not the first time either!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. Colin Powell is a National and a Global Disgrace!
Showing cartoons at the U.N. to get a war on!

Such fools that mortal was.....and is!

Those who follow stoopidity are stoopid!
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. You're way too kind with a simple "screw' ....
He deserves so much more than even a 'fuck'.

His despicability goes waaaaaaaaaay back ....... to covering the heinous acts of one Lt. William Calley in a Viet Namese village named Mei Lei ...... oh so long ago. Back then, he was complicit in attempting to cover it up because his bosses back then thought if we knew about the incident, we might turn against that war.

Yeah, this guy was such an American treasure ..... feh.
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allemand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. The story about Powell and My Lai is often repeated, but it is not true.
The massacre had already been covered up when Powell arrived in Vietnam. Wikipedia now has the (more or less) correct version:

Tom Glen wrote a letter accusing the Americal Division (and other entire units of the U.S. military, not just individuals) of routine brutality against Vietnamese civilians (...). Colin Powell, then a young US Army Major, was charged with investigating the letter, which did not specifically reference My Lai (Glen had no knowledge of the events there).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre


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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. "More or less"
Powell's specific involvement (or lack thereof) in this story has long been shrouded in mystery and uncertainty. From reading your link, Wikipedia seem to feel the same. Indeed, googling the story turns up little in the way of fact, but nothing to refute the story. That link you used is the closest I've ever seen to have done so. I have some contemporaneous memory of the event itself (having been in service at about that time) but had never heard the Powell story until maybe 10 or 15 years ago.

I will grant this: urban myths have enough plausibility to render them believable. If nothing else, this might well be a perfect example of that. I tend to think otherwise.

Some time ago there was a bio of Powell that mentioned his involvement. I just looked for it online but can't even recall what to google to try to find it. In any case, I recall that the bio was rather unflattering to him, painting him a suckup through quotes from his contemporaries. One of his contemporaries levelled the cover-up charge at him. (But then, so did contemporaries of John Kerry's level charges, so that is hardly a reliable source.)

No .... I doubt either you or I know the *real* truth.
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allemand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. It's a very good example of an urban myth, in my opinion.
I called the current version "more of less correct" because it still mixes older and newer sources and the result is some confusion.

Originally, Wikipedia just quoted this article by Heather Wokusch:

A few years later, Colin Powell was an up-and-coming staff officer, assigned to the Americal headquarters at Chu Lai, Vietnam. He was put in charge of handling a young soldier, Tom Glen, who had written a letter accusing the Americal division of routine brutality against Vietnamese civilians; the letter was detailed, its allegations horrifying, and its contents echoed complaints received from other soldiers. Rather than speaking to Glen about the letter, however, Powell's response was to conduct a cursory investigation followed by a report faulting Glen, and concluding, "In direct refutation of this (Glen's) portrayal, is the fact that relations between Americal soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent."
http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/article/id2584/pg1/index.html


The article was later edited, but parts of it remain, e.g. "the letter was detailed, its allegations horrifying, and its contents echoed complaints received from other soldiers".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre

There are many inaccuracies in the original article. The letter doesn't mention any names, dates or places, so it wasn't "detailed" in that sense. Powell didn't speak to Glen, but he had to respond within 72 hours and Glen was already back in the States.

The following article by Richard Harwood gives a good summary of the "case" ("Damned If You Don't; Colin Powell's supposed sins of omission":

(Powell) was a young major at the time assigned to the division's headquarters as an assistant on the G-3 staff, which was responsible for planning the division's major military operations. Six months into the job Powell was handed a letter, written the previous month, by a specialist four, Tom Glen, an ammo carrier for a mortar platoon in the 3rd Infantry. Glen by then was back in the States. The letter was addressed to Gen. William C. Westmoreland and passed down to the division, where it landed in Powell's lap. He was instructed to check it out and respond within 72 hours.

The letter was an eloquent but generalized critique of American military practices in Vietnam — the brutalizing of civilians, torture and other mistreatment of prisoners by "soldiers that, apparently, fire indiscriminately into Vietnamese homes and without provocation or justification shoot at the people themselves. . . . What has been outlined here I have seen not only in my own unit, but also in others we have worked with, and I fear it is universal. If this is indeed the case, it is a problem that cannot be overlooked, but can through a more firm implementation of the codes of and the Geneva Convention, perhaps be eradicated."

No names, dates or places were cited. (...) Lacking any specifics from Glen, Powell informed his superiors that, in Lane's words, "the young soldier's charges were false, except possibly, for isolated instances; abuses were not tolerated but punished."

Glen now lives in Centreville, Ind., and works with students needing remedial work to qualify for college admission. His own platoon in Vietnam, he told me, engaged in no atrocities or brutal treatment of civilians or prisoners, but he had personal knowledge of indiscriminate firing by other units and the use of dogs to intimidate prisoners in the course of their interrogations. He had been told by a helicopter door gunner soon after the My Lai massacre that something untoward had occurred in that village. But he didn't pursue it, report it to higher authorities or mention the incident in his letter to Westmoreland. Glen stands by his general observations but, with respect to Powell, is "concerned about this being blown out of proportion. . . . I don't see Powell involved, and shouldn't have drawn that conclusion."
(Washington Post, 10 April 1995)


Tom Glen's letter describes horrific behavior, but it doesn't describe or mention the massacre in My Lai:

"The average GI's attitude toward and treatment of the Vietnamese
people all too often is a complete denial of all our country is attempting
to accomplish in the realm of human relations... Far beyond merely
dismissing the Vietnamese as 'slopes' or 'gooks,' in both deed and thought,
too many American soldiers seem to discount their very humanity; and with
this attitude inflict upon the Vietnamese citizenry humiliations, both
psychological and physical, that can have only a debilitating effect upon
efforts to unify the people in loyalty to the Saigon government,
particularly when such acts are carried out at unit levels and thereby
acquire the aspect of sanctioned policy... Vietnamese] for mere pleasure, fire indiscriminately into Vietnamese homes
and without provocation or justification shoot at the people themselves...
Fired with an emotionalism that belies unconscionable hatred, and armed with
a vocabulary consisting of 'You VC,' soldiers commonly 'interrogate' by
means of torture that has been presented as the particular habit of the
enemy. Severe beatings and torture at knife point are usual means of
questioning captives or of convincing a suspect that he is, indeed, a Viet
Cong... It would indeed be terrible to find it necessary to believe that an
American soldier that harbors such racial intolerance and disregard for
justice and human feeling is a prototype of all American national character;
yet the frequency of such soldiers lends credulity to such beliefs... What
has been outlined here I have seen not only in my own unit, but also in
others we have worked with, and I fear it is universal. If this is indeed
the case, it is a problem which cannot be overlooked, but can through a more
firm implementation of the codes of MACV (Military Assistance Command
Vietnam) and the Geneva Conventions, perhaps be eradicated."
http://www.vfpmaine.org/goff%20letter%20050604.htm
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
15. He lied on purpose to start a war he knew would be a disaster
What do you say about a guy like that?

He knew they were all lies. He's not stupid. Hell, WE knew on DU they were all lies. All you had to do was google a bit for the truth and read the fucking opeds by BushI cronies warning against this quagmire.

He helped make the case for war KNOWING it was a bunch of cooked up bullshit. Now he wants to pretend he was just kinda caught up in it and tried to make it stop. That is UTTER bullshit and he damn well knows it.

What does anyone think the Nuremburg judges would have said to this claptrap of an excuse if he were a German general trying to pretend he was innocent?

They'd hang the fucker after listening to him in the dock.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think bush already beat you to it. It's almost comical how this pathetic
twit trusted them. EVEN when he knew their shit was just that - shit, and he STILL went ahead and sold it to the UN and to the watching world. He put his credibility and his reputation and his career and his future on the line for bush and look where it got him. Do you hear ANYONE out there speaking of him in "potential presidential" terms anymore? Man, talk about squandering your political capital. colin, dear, didn't you learn anything as a GI? When you lie down with lice, you get up with 'em. And when it's self-inflicted, I have NO sympathy whatsoever.

I'm still just completely dumbfounded as to how he could go out there, on camera, with his silly little vial and tenet sitting behind him, and sell this shit WHEN HE ALREADY KNEW IT WAS SHIT!!! Makes you wonder what kind of photos they have of him or some such thing. Or what empty promises did they make to him that he bought hook, line, and sinker (which I'm certain they failed to keep).

How does it feel to be a complete, pathetic, all-American patsy, colin? I guess you get the results you deserve. You came in a general, a hero, a respected and admired former Joint Chiefs honcho with people ready to put their money on you as the first African-American president. And now you're a pathetic JOKE. A has-been. A loser. A fool. A patsy. A violin, because they played you just like you were one. A discard. They used you, they chewed you up and spit you out, and left you by the side of the road like a loogey spat from the tubercular driver of a passing car.

And I can't say that you don't deserve it.

If he were a man, at all, he would have resigned rather than compromise his credibility and lead his nation and his brothers and sisters in the armed forces astray. Instead, their blood is on his hands. He was UNIQUELY positioned as the ONE believable, trustworthy person in the bush White House, to stop the war, or at least slow it down substantially. And he pissed that stature away. What did you think you'd get for it, colin? What did you think they were gonna do for you? Promised you a seat on the Carlyle Group board or something? Promise they'd rig an election for you somewhere farther down the line?

What a schmuck. And eminently complicit in all bush's sins. And whatever consequences he'll face, either on this plane or the later one, it's well-deserved.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
17. Testing the '08 nomination waters, mayhaps.
And doesn't know which party.
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