This was totally out of line for a Democrat to say right now. Baird, WA

[madfloridian]

This is a congressional Democratic leader, Baird, who puts down Vermont, Bernie Sanders, and Howard Dean all in one breath. Is this how you have to talk to get elected in WA state?

http://159.54.227.3/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060414/NEWS/60414002

"More so than Republican strategy, Baird and Smith said the Democrats have their own shortcomings to deal with — from being intent on finding a national leader to being too self-satisfied in the Republicans' plight.

“We all talk about how great we are,” Smith said. “I use the joke that I don't think you're allowed to speak in Democratic caucus unless you spend the first five minutes thanking somebody for something, which, you know, is a waste of time — particularly when you've been losing for 10 years.”

And electing former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean chairman of the Democratic National Committee made it harder to reach out to voters, Baird said.

“I like Howard Dean and respect him, but he's from the only congressional district in the country that's brought a Socialist to Congress,” Baird said. “To come to a red state and expect Howard Dean to get it — he may think he gets it, but he doesn't get it.”

Is it really that red in WA state?

And from Baird's bio:

http://www.house.gov/baird/bio/about.shtml

"Congressman Baird was elected President of his 1998 Freshman Democratic Class. He currently serves as a Senior Democratic Whip and on the Democratic Steering Committee. These positions afford him significant access to the House leadership and allow him to be a strong advocate for the needs of Southwest Washington in debates and behind the scenes. "

[saltpoint]

1. Well, I disagree with Baird. I like Dean. I like Bernie Saunders.

I'm voting blue in November.

[boobooday]

2. Howard Dean made it harder to reach out to voters?

This attitude makes me sick, because it presumes that the voters are total morons who have to be talked to like pre-schoolers.

More Americans identify themselves as Democrat than Republican, Bush's approval rating is in the basement, and these guys STILL don't want to act like an opposition. :puke:

We want a debate, a fight, a real choice. We need hundreds more Howard Deans.

Edit: putting the puke in the right place!

[Warpy]

3. I'm afraid he's wrong

The party needs to listen to Brian Schweitzer, the governor of Montana, to put together an agenda to sweep the trash out of office.

Schweitzer won a decisive victory in one of the "reddest" states in this country.

He didn't do it as a timid DLC conservative.

[Southsideirish]

4. He is wrong. Howard Dean is a breath of fresh air to a tired old party.

[chaumont58]

7. I don't think it is tired so much as DC centrist

The DLC types would have us great unwashed masses vote then shut the fuck up.
The DLC and the NewRepublic Magazine: preparing Democrats for life in the 1970s.

[ninkasi]

5. I don't agree with him

I think Howard Dean is great, and I like Bernie Sanders. Dean really energized some of us, and I think has been responsible for a lot of progressive grass roots actions. Maybe I'm more liberal than I realized, because I don't consider Dean to be far-left at all.

I do know that since Chimp stole office, I'm finding myself more and more to the liberal side, possibly as a reaction to all of the fascist tendencies of his corrupt administration.

[Lost4words]

6. I like Dean, I dont think I like Baird

[TayTay]

8. What an idiot!

Dean's '50 State Strategy' is a long over attempt to get to better know voters in red states by actually going out and talking to them. That is hardly out-of-touch and is the opposite of what this idiot is saying.

[politicaholic]

9. Baird's a good guy, that's pretty uncharacteristic of him...

When he says that Washington is a red state he really means it. The bulk of the population is in the west and good democrats, but you go 100 miles east of the coast and its trucks, meth, mullets, and GW Bush 100%.

What do you expect from Washington? Sophistication? That doesn't fly here.

[madfloridian]

10. I expect respect for other Democrats.

He should not have said that. He criticized two good men and a whole state.

[politicaholic]

12. You're right, and I'm going to ask him about it the next time I see him...

which should be in June. I volunteer for and donate to a lot of big events.

I'm a little more concerned about asking Sen. Maria Cantwell why she voted for Sam Alito. Her spinelessness really needs to stop. She's getting project money, but not really helping anyone by voting republican on major issues.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

14. I agree, but that cuts both ways.

I think that attacking other democrats is foolish and irresponsible, and Baird shouldn't have done it, but I couldn't help that notice that when Senator Feingold launched a considerably more stinging attack on virtually the entire Democratic party for failing to support his censure resolution he was widely lauded on DU.

I suspect that circular firing squad tactics are one of the principal reasons why the Democrats have failed to capitalise on Bush's unpopularity.

The paradox, of course, is that by pointing this out I am engaging in them myself...

[WildEyedLiberal]

22. Ding ding ding

Ironic, isn't it? It's okay to call Democrats "spinless," "cowering," etc, but it's not okay to say that perhaps the far left needs to understand that its rage and fury and namecalling are alienating more moderate/conservative people who may otherwise be inclined to vote Democratic.

DISCLAIMER: I am in no way implying the OP is guilty of this behavior in this thread, or any other thread I have seen, before anyone jumps all over me.

[Ken Burch]

24. Like politeness and good manners have ever done us any good.

You're saying we STILL shouldn't fight back.

Why?

[Punkingal]

11. Typical idiocy from Dem leadership.

Iwonder how many elections we have to lose before they realize their ideas are completely fucking wrong. This guy sounds like a moron....I didn't think Washington was a red state. Howard gets it...guys like Baird are the problem.

[madfloridian]

13. Someone shared this with me from TAP about Baird.

It is categorizing Democrats who often vote with Bush and trying to analyze the reasons. It is from August last year. I fear we have a lot of these Fearful in the party, and we will have for a long time. They are the ones who usually vote more to the right....like our Bill Nelson here. I get very angry when they distance themselves from a great state like VT, from Bernie Sanders, and from Dean.

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewPrint&articleId=10306

The Defectors

"The Fearful. Some Democrats cast pro-administration votes because they consider themselves vulnerable. But that rationale is easily exaggerated. Several Democratic House seats would be swing districts if the incumbent retired or died, but they are also districts where the current member has used name recognition and service to the district to make the seat secure. Most northern and western Democrats in such 60-40 districts vote as progressives. But some run scared.

Brian Baird represents Washington’s 3rd District, which runs south from the liberal state capital, Olympia, down to the counties that are part of suburban Portland, Oregon. Unlike Larsen, Baird, formerly a college professor of psychology, is personally quite liberal, according to a colleague. But local observers say that Baird was seared by his experience of only narrowly capturing the seat on his second try in 1998. So he considers himself perennially vulnerable and emphasizes his independence. In fact, in his recent re-election bids, Baird won by healthy, identical margins of 62 percent to 38 percent in 2002 and 2004. Nonetheless, he voted for bankruptcy and tort reform. “It’s just not a swing seat,” says a frustrated party activist. The longtime incumbent was Don Bonker, a stalwart liberal. “It’s harder for the base to hold Baird accountable than Adam Smith,” says this activist, “partly because the Portland papers don’t really cover him.”

[Johnyawl]

18. Your information is not exactly true

Baird's district IS a swing district. Jolene Unsoeld (VERY liberal) held this seat, using the Olympia liberals as her base. She was defeated in 1994 by Linda Smith (VERY conservative, RW fundy nut bag) who held this seat until Baird defeated her. The northern end of the district (Olympia) is very liberal; the two counties to the immediate south of Olympia are redder then the sage brush country in eastern Washington. The southern end of the district, Vancouver WA and the surrounding county (basically 'bedroom communities' of Portland, OR), are very much the swing portion of this district. They are trending Democratic at the moment, but they are not solidly Dem, nor are they liberal in any sense of the word. And this is the fastest growing portion of the district.

It's deceptive, and misleading, to compare the district of today, to the district that Don Bonker held for so long. Much has changed. In the '60s & '70s much of the small town/rural areas of this district was dominated by union mill workers. The mills are gone, and so too are the unions, and today those areas are varying shades of purple. Don Bonker, whom I much admired, would have a hard time getting elected in that district today.

I don't much like Baird, or Smith for that matter, but they're both perferable to the repugs they took those seats away from.

[madfloridian]

19. That is from TAP...I just posted it.

I don't know the district. Perhaps you should contact the author of the article. That is what I do when I see something mischaracterized.

[Minnesota Libra]

15. Howard Dean is out there on the national scene but we don't...............

.....hear much on the national scene from Baird. Nuff said.

[OzarkDem]

16. Baseless accusation

I don't know Baird, but it he sounds like he's not in touch.

Judging by all the accusations, recriminations and lack of direction by Dem leaders in Congress, it sounds like there's quite a battle still raging within the Dem party.

These folks need to wise up and accept the fact that Dean is doing a great job with his 50 state strategy. It may be making the big money donors uncomfortable, which causes them to put pressure on Dems in Congress. Too bad, they have to come to to terms with a Democratic party that represents people, not big donors.

I wish they would get over the infighting and start fighting the GOP.

[depakid]

17. "start fighting the GOP."

Wouldn't that be nice.

[MrBenchley]

20. Doesn't he know only the far left is allowed to criticize Democrats?

And that instead of saying something sensible, as he did, he's supposed to say stuff like "Nancy Pelosi is a "lameass", "gutless wonder", "useless, spineless, posturing, fingerintheair asswipe", part of the "Elite Ruling Class who are there to protect the status quo of fascism", a "Pro-War Monger", "stupid, irresponsible", "worse than Tojo!...practically Adolf Eichmann to Bush's Milosevic", "another politician not willing to enforce the laws of the United States when it comes to the executive branch", "wimp"", etc. etc. etc...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2489288

[madfloridian]

21. Respect from both sides...no more calling us "f---ing hippies'

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20060424&s=scheiber042406

"Last year, a major Democratic donor from the 2004 presidential campaign received a call from some operatives at Howard Dean's Democratic National Committee (DNC). Dean was coming to town in a few days, they told him, and they wanted to schedule a meeting. Political fund-raisers normally make such calls a month in advance, and so the seat-of-the-pants approach didn't go over well. "You can't call me the week before and say, 'Hey ... we'll be there Monday, want to hang out?'" says the donor. "They had all these fucking hippies.... These are people that are great to raise a few $500 checks, plan a party at a nightclub. But they're not the folks you need to give you to do the things you want to do."

There is a whole lot of guilt on both sides of the aisle. Regular folks, people who are not DC savvy...are just as important as those who are wealthy and politically savvy.

[MrBenchley]

23. Tee hee hee....

Yeah, there's an ace to draw to, the New Republic....

[Ken Burch]

25. Who are "the folks you need to give you to do the things you want to do"?

CEO's? Defense Contractors?

Lobbyists for China?

Jeezzz.....

Long live the forces of moderation, who gave us our brilliant successes in 2000, 2002 and 2006.
They know JUST what to do...that is, do what hasn't been working over and over and over again...

[Spirochete]

26. Baird's my rep.

And for the most part, I'm pretty happy with him. I've voted for him since 1996, when he lost that election to hypocritical fundie Linda Smith in the odd election where a lead was taken away from Baird by the late absentee votes, and given to Smith.
It appears it is time to write him and remind him that I've voted from him all along, and that I thik he's wrong about Howard Dean. I don't write every many letters, but this shit has got to cease.

[Ignacio Upton]

27. Wait'a go Baird!

Undermine one of our best Senate pickups!:sarcasm:

[madfloridian]

28. A huge difference between fair critiques of Democrats, and name-calling.

If I post something critical, I back it up. Mostly I use their own words. I question. I back up my critiques with other sources, and/or their own words. I was told the other day that the DLC does not advocate privatization of Social Security...so I posted their own words. It said they advocated partial privatization on the road to privatization. Some still denied it.

That is called constructive criticism. It is necessary in every party. The GOP would not have been taken over by such extremists if the party had questioned their leaders.

I agree with those who say name-calling is out of line. I like most of our Democrats, and appreciate them. I will vote Democratic in November, while I reserve my right to vote my conscience in the primary.

What Baird said was not constructive in any sense of the word. It needs attention called to it. More party leaders are being more inclusive of the grassroots, and a lot of it is because we call them out when they are wrong.

Baird probably said those things to pander to what he thought his constituency wanted to hear. He ridiculed VT, Sanders, and Dean, and said untrue things. That is wrong. There is nothing wrong with posting necessary criticism, and I think this was. I don't like name calling, though. I think fair criticism is crucial.