Does it seem like we're in a weird twilight between Bush failure and

[yurbud]

whatever comes next?

The fall of this bunch seems inevitable now, but how isn't clear. Part of why it isn't clear is even though he is on the mat, the Democrats don't even kick him while he is down (at least not in a concerted way).

Even if Bush attacks Iran, it will be the death spasm of the regime rather than the start of a world war. One way or another, he will be neutered and moved away from the dangerous weapons.

It's like our country is running on autopilot right now, like that slow motion scene in a movie right before a crash, or the calm before a storm (that might be just the calm before more calm).

It's just a feeling.

Weird.

[Syrinx]

1. I agree

The relative silence from Congressional Democrats is deafening.

I guess there are two potential explanations: Either, they are standing back and letting the thugs implode. Or they are bought and paid for hacks just like the Republicans.

I'm leaning toward the latter, unfortunately.

[AndyTiedye]

4. Here's a Few More Potential Explanations

Why go to the expense of bribery when you have blackmail and extortion?
The NSA has been listening to every word on every phone in the Capitol.

If there's absolutely nothing to blackmail them with, like with Kerry,
they make something up and give it to the Swift Boat liars and the infinite media echo chamber.

Many of them also know that the Rethugs can fix their next election and end their political career.


Or they can be Wellstoned:

[yurbud]

20. there is something to that, so even as the machine grinds to a halt

No one will seriously step forward until it is absolutely dead.

[AndyTiedye]

2. That's Because The Democrats Are In Far Worse Shape

even though he is on the mat, the Democrats don't even kick him while he is down

Our party is in no position to kick anyone. We're barely able to crawl into the ring.
The Repubs sprained their foot a bit while kicking us, so they had to stop for a minute.
They'll be at it again, with a chorus of friendly media behind them, by summer.

Even if Bush attacks Iran, it will be the death spasm of the regime rather than the start of a world war. One way or another, he will be neutered and moved away from the dangerous weapons.

Once the warped residents attack Iran, it's all over. For us. For the US.
For the world, probably.
What do you think would operate to stop them after they nuke Iran? :nuke:
Other than the rest of the world nuking us, that is?
That would neuter them, eventually, but it would get us all killed first.
:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:

[yurbud]

21. the military is run by people and they are already signaling that nuking

Iran is beyond the pale.

It's possible that before it gets that far, the military will simply stop obeying the bushies orders.

[AndyTiedye]

23. The Air Force Would Be The Ones Dropping the Nukes...

...and they are totally under the control of the Dominion now.
:scared::scared::nuke::nuke:

[3waygeek]

24. So were the Cardassians n/t

[Lexingtonian]

3. the "how" is clear enough, imho

First of all, whatever we may believe and know, the Administration is an elected one. It dies when its last major bloc of supporters chooses to not defend it any further. But we're not there yet.

The present Congress has not entirely expended its usefulness in the eyes of the moderate center. But it's one major social issue disaster and one round of attempted tax cuts away from it. The center (read: moderate Republicans) has finally given up on it on ethics, obviously, and everything foreign affairs (which is mostly executive branch stuff, really).

The attempt to cut taxes on the wealthy further ('extension' of the estate tax cut of '03) is scheduled for next month. That should cost them the moderate Republicans on fiscal stuff.

Illegals might be the social issue, but I'm betting on Congressional Republicans doing something Schiavoesque when the Christian Right goes into panic on the South Dakota abortion ban referendum. Polling says 57% of SD voters will currently vote to overturn. If that majority to overturn holds into the summer- and you can bet they're doing all they can to squelch it- the Christian Right is torpedoed on its central issue on its home turf. If South Dakota maintains this majority, pro-choice folks will predictably try to get referenda all over the Red States securing the right to abortion. The South Dakota gambit could, unforeseen by the Right, end in strategic disaster for them.

There will be a showdown for real power/control of Congress this summer between Rs and Ds, if I understand the rumblings correctly. That should set up matters for the fall- 'contrast' and 'message' and all that. I think we'll be hesitant as a Party until then, and if it succeeds just out to kick ass and take names to November and beyond.

The Administration....pretty much has Iraq and 'terror'. On terrorism they're just throwing dice- bin Laden wins (i.e. loses them Republicans on 'handling terrorism') via attacks in the West on sides 1 through 5, they only win on a throw of 6 (someone sells bin Laden out).

Iraq is pretty much all plugging a dike that springs more and more leaks. The triumvirate (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld) is trying to intimidate Iran out of collapsing their disintegrating game in Iraq before November, that's the political stakes I see in the present absurd saber-rattling. But when this 'unity government' sham officially collapses, moderate Republicans will be opponents rather than supporters of the crap being done there.

The Iraq game is up within the next year- without Berlusconi propping Blair in Europe and Blair propping Bush in the UN they can't continue it. The Shia feel almost sufficiently trained and armed up to win their civil war against the Sunni, and they'll disinvite the U.S. presence when that's achieved. Without Congress's cover the Bushies have no domestic power left and plenty of crimes to be investigated for. Bin Laden will supply the collapse in confidence about their measures to fight Al Qaeda.

I say it all ends in whimpers and whining in November at one level (on Capitol Hill) and around next March for the dying Presidency. These guys don't have much left. The real question is: do we have extradition treaties with enough countries.....

[AndyTiedye]

5. I Wish I Could Be So Optimistic, I Wish I Could be Optimistic At All

First of all, whatever we may believe and know, the Administration is an elected one.

You left out an "s" in there.

But you are correct below that the support of their base is what matters. That is all they need.

It dies when its last major bloc of supporters chooses to not defend it any further.

But the fundies will support them more tenaciously the more they fuck up.
They think that if they absolutely wreck EVERYTHING, the "Rapture" will happen.
Of course the robber barons support them, they are the ones running the show.

But we're not there yet

.

The center (read: moderate Republicans) has finally given up on it on ethics,

"Moderate" Congressional Republicans have given up on having ethics in favor or party unity.
That is really unfortunate, because we need to IMPEACH the warped residents NOW, and we cannot do it without their help.

I'm betting on Congressional Republicans doing something Schiavoesque when the Christian Right goes into panic on the South Dakota abortion ban referendum.

Very likely.

Polling says 57% of SD voters will currently vote to overturn.

You know they'll use everything in their power to steal it.

There will be a showdown for real power/control of Congress this summer between Rs and Ds, if I understand the rumblings correctly.

What are you hearing? From here, it doesn't sound like they've got any fight left in 'em.

The Administration....pretty much has Iraq and 'terror'. On terrorism they're just throwing dice- bin Laden wins (i.e. loses them Republicans on 'handling terrorism') via attacks in the West on sides 1 through 5, they only win on a throw of 6 (someone sells bin Laden out).

They win every time Bin Ladin says "BOO". It always works for them. Another attack and they
get to start up the draft and militarize the whole country. Elections? What elections?

[Ezlivin]

15. I wish people could understand THIS

They think that if they absolutely wreck EVERYTHING, the "Rapture" will happen.

I suspect that most people do not realize the impact of Dispensationalism on Fundamentalism (basically what laypeople refer to as the Rapture and other associated prophetic events).

Current-day believers think that not only are they living in the "End Times" and biblical prophecies are coming true, but that they can actually help fulfill some of these prophecies thus prompting Jesus to return even sooner.

[shenmue]

6. Feels like...

Russia must have felt before the fall of the tsar.

[AndyTiedye]

27. More Like Germany in the 1930s

[FloridaPat]

7. If he attacks, it wil be the death of our country and way of life.

Although, I'm not sure if it's already fatally wounded now. And it really could start WWIII if Russia and China get involved.

[Oversea Visitor]

8. My thoughts

US Politics need major reform.
System fail big time.
Just look at spainish language ad on immigration bill
Accuse Dem right in your face
Haha Repuke control all 3 houses
And they blame the Dem :rofl:

People swallow that
Now what the hell is wrong
Is not even about voting
Check and balance seems to be not present
It is like US goes nuts
Just no DAMN LOGIC

[OzarkDem]

13. Thanks for your observation

its pretty accurate. Even when the GOP fails and loses public support, they still control the game.

It takes top tier Dem leadership in Congress to deal with these times and we don't have it. There are a few, but not enough.

[sendero]

14. We live in a country..

.. of intellectually lazy (not the same as dumb) easily propogandized people. We are paying the price for that and will continue to pay that price until things get so bad for the average American that s/he wakes up and smells the coffee.

We are well on our way but we're not there yet.

[Oversea Visitor]

16. Not there yet

:rofl:
bush lie and start an illegal war in Iraq ..... now what happened haha Murtha talk got ass kick. And woh look at what happening in the house when they debate it :rofl:

Look at all the no bid contraact in Iraq you talking about billions not million :rofl:

Look at the 10 billions spend on trailer for NO what a fucking waste :rofl:

Look at Valerie Plame haha cover blown by none other than the white house :rofl:

Sorry but I cant see how much worse it need to be before people awake

Coming soon IRAN .... man this hole big enough to buried US forever

The US president is the US people responsibility
The only one guy in the world that can fuck US upside down :rofl:

9 trillion and growing fast
Me think you guys be like 12 trillion by year end
And he still got 2 more years after that
:rofl:
Talk about totally fuck

NOT THERE YET :rofl:

[sendero]

18. You really don't understand..

... the political and media climate over here.

The average American is TOTALLY UNAWARE of most of the issues you raised. TOTALLY UNAWARE!

You might well say "how can that be?". And I'd tell you it is because of several factors:

1) a media that dumbs down everything and only reports what it wants to, and definitely favors the Republican agenda (although that is starting to change)

2) an electorate that sees that the political process is 100% broken and has abdicated from any further involvement

3) an electorate that just hears lie after lie and has nobody to arbitrate where the truth is

"Not there yet", you think it's funny but Bush**'s approval ratings have halved. If that's not progress then what is? Yes, America is waking up.

[Oversea Visitor]

19. Aaaah geee

You mean you congressman and senators all unaware too.

Easy to say bush but he cant do shit without congress and senate help

Yeah you can change him in 2008

Yeah you can change like 16 people in 2006

Hehe we got CNN too ouch decide it was garbage longtime ago

No you guys got major problems

And it is not only your president

[acmejack]

9. You seem far more confident than I am.

I don't see them leaving. their "hunker down" mentality will be in full force, they will find a pretext, any old reason will suffice, to impose martial law, and they will stay. I have no reason to believe that our "democracy", imperfect as it is, will survive this group of thugs presently at the levers of power.

They will be the ruin of us all.

[0007]

10. Only the birds know the direction we're going and some are slighty sick!

[lwcon]

11. Seems that way to me, too.

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[Vinca]

12. November, 2006, will tell all.

If the sheeple still vote Republican, after all that has happened, the nation is lost for good. This election is a turning point: so much good can happen if Democrats win, so much more bad if Republicans win. I'll be deciding in November whether to stay in this country or go elsewhere.

[Oversea Visitor]

17. You not going anywhere

You stay right in US
You need to fight them in US
So we dont have to fight them there

You ran away they start going bonkers and attack everyone
Damn stupid earth round nowhere to hide

As least the kind of fight dont use bombs or WMD
But if you run ....... x( ...... then bad kind of fight happen

No no you stay put and fight.

[BlueIris]

22. Aw. That's what I say.

I can't make people stay who just can't take it, but it always hurts me to see people saying they're going to bail on this country.

[AndyTiedye]

26. I Am Sure That Those Who are Leaving Are Hurting a Lot More

[Vinca]

25. Thanks for the pep talk. You're right.

I'm just having a bad couple of days. No health insurance and an old sports injury is acting up. There's nothing like pain to make you daydream of other countries with universal health care. (If anyone's interested, you couldn't go wrong buying stock in Aleve.)