nyt: WH hoping Rummy debate will be between Generals (omit WH).

[rodeodance]

umm.. interesting, if true


page 1 upper fold:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/15/washington/15rumsfeld.html?_r=1&th=&oref=slogin&emc=th&pagewanted=print

April 15, 2006
Rumsfeld Gets Robust Defense From President
By JIM RUTENBERG and MARK MAZZETTI

.......On CNN, General Myers said he regretted that the retired generals were speaking out. "My whole perception of this is that it's bad for the military, it's bad for civil-military relations, and it's potentially very bad for the country, because what we are hearing and what we are seeing is not the role the military plays in our society," he said.

General Franks said on MSNBC that Mr. Rumsfeld was a "pretty successful secretary of defense" whose managerial style ruffled feathers.

Administration officials seemed to be hoping that the debate could move to one between generals and cease to be one involving the White House, which has seemed uncomfortable publicly taking on military brass.

But the senior administration official said the president was not deaf to complaints about Mr. Rumsfeld. "He is fully cognizant of the controversy that surrounds Secretary Rumsfeld's tenure," the official said. "But that often happens when you are tasked with doing very difficult things."

[wake.up.america]

1. What is the meaning of "unsuccessful"

"General Franks said on MSNBC that Mr. Rumsfeld was a "pretty successful secretary of defense" whose managerial style ruffled feathers."

[rodeodance]

2. I do not think Frank gives very good praise to Rummy.

[NI4NI]

3. It's always bad for America

whenever someone rightfully speaks out about the many failures of this administration which believes that they should never be challenged. And far worse, their lock stepping lemmings can't understand that what's truly bad and dangerous to America is if no one does.

[DLnyc]

4. That's unfair. Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has been quite successful.

He successfully dragged the United States into an unneccessary war.
He successfully turned torture into an official policy of the United States.
He successfully killed 2367 American kids and permanently disabled some 10 or 20 thousand more.
He successfully killed, orphaned, widowed, impoverished and otherwise traumatized 1 or 2 hundred thousand Iraqis.
He successfully set up the most efficient terrorist recruitment environment ever seen on this planet.
He successfully turned a bleak but liveable country in the Middle East into a hell-hole of murder, destruction and misery.
He successfully burned up several hundred billion dollars of hard-earned American treasure.
He successfully destroyed almost every alliance the United States had built up over the last 50 years.
He successfully turned a modern, professional army into an overstretched demoralized pariah.

Hopefully, he will also successfullly drag himself and the rest of BFEE cabal down to the infamy and severe punishment they so richly deserve as quickly as possible.

[Olney Blue]

6. And what is "pretty" successful? That sounds different from

successful or very successful.

[cassiepriam]

5. Yes, this is perfect for Bush. Rummy takes the heat for him. nt

[teryang]

7. These retired generals are the tip of a huge iceberg

It is the custom of the Armed Forces to abide by constitutional rule of the military. These retired generals aren't speaking just for themselves.

Almost by definition generals are VIPs, members of an elite. Upon retirement they are invited by corporate America to sit on the Boards of Directors of top corporations and other institutions. This outspoken opposition to the administration could be the beginning of the end. Their public criticism of the SecDef marks a political fault line.

In the American political system, it doesn't matter what the people want, it only matters what the elites decide. The public airing of this dispute within elite circles marks another political milestone. It will be interesting to see if corporate American penalizes these generals.

[cliss]

10. Not only that, but the military

is crucial to the PNAC's dreams of global hegemony. This year, I believe the US is going to spend more on the military than all other countries combined.

I'd say it's a priority for them.

Without the military, their plans are finished. If there is a mutiny (which appears to be happening right now), they will never be able to finish Iraq or Afghanistan, never mind Iran. Also, think of all our military bases around the world. If the officers lose faith in Rumsfailed, it will trickle down to the troops.

It's a weird catch-22 for them. In order to save their plans, they have to dump Rumsfeld. Rumsfeld was the founder of these plans, but in order to save them, he has to go.

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. First he feeds them Brownie and now it's Rummy.

Anyone who is still loyal to this man by election day, is one major dope.

[Stinky The Clown]

9. It isn't going to play out the way they want it ........

The generals they will trot out as 'opposition' to the ones speaking out have too much baggage to be seen as credible on this issue. Quite simply, they're part of the problem for not speaking up.

Franks and Meyers are seen on Main Street as part of the cabal more than as part of the military. In a word: RummyBuddies. Franks, in particular, never got the respect that accrued to, say, Norman Schwartzkopf. Sounding like the Tejas good 'ol boy he is makes it even worse.

The guys coming out were on the ground and never sought the spotlight. They were - and will be seen as - 'good soldiers'.

This is now a war of perceptions.

The other factor, as yet unknown in its effect, is the already-started cut-down of Shinsekhi. It is widely known that he's the one who was so correctly prescient in calling for more troops and how that call got him fired by Rummy. I suspect Shinsekhi will come out on top in this debate.

Of course, Das Media will be there to catapult the propaganda - as that fatheaded Matthews did this week - but I suspect most people have started to again trust their lying eyes.

[cliss]

11. I think so, too.

When it comes down to it, this is really NOT a matter of how the public feels towards Bush, or Rumsfailed.

This is about Rumsfailed and the military.

Let's face it: the military is crucial to this administration. The military has made it clear: they have lost faith in their Secretary of Defense. It's a mutiny, in fact. Just like Captain Bligh.

While Bush can safely ignore the Americans, he cannot ignore the military. He'll go.

[Evergreen Emerald]

12. It is there role

The military is being used politically by the Bush administration. It is time for the generals to defend their soldiers. They should be shouting from the roof tops--as should every American. It is time to end this idiocy.