Am I completely delusional or am I just one of many

[Ecumenist]

who feel that the fact that all these generals are speaking out may portend a fact that the military will not allow Crazy as Hell bush and his bunch to do this bombing? It seems like this is something that they are communicating to a populace who are finally coming out of their self induced Koolaid fog?
Feel free comment. I need to know if I'm the only one...

[moggie12]

1. No, you;'re not alone

Thank God for these Generals. FOX-brainwahsed Americans will listen to them.

[Clarkie1]

31. Thank God for these Generals;FOX-brainwashed Americans will listen to them

Perhaps not a bad political strategy for 06' and 08' as well?

:patriot: We've discovered that a lot of die-hard Republicans will actually listen to what flag-waving (even dare I say, liberal) generals have to say...but shhhh, don't tell we know!

[pthalomarie]

39. don't underestimate the right wing machine

i'm betting the defense strategy will be: the conservatives are arguing that these generals have sour grapes because they got jilted out of a lucrative position, or they have book aspirations and want to make a buck off the war.

republicans didn't get where they are by listening to us; they got there because we kept assuming they'd reach a point where sanity would dawn on them. each time we see them hesitate, democrats tend to relax and give them time for reflection. that's all they need to concoct some absurd but irritatingly effective spin on the matter.

[knowbody0]

2. i feel they are sending us a message

kinda like Paul Revere.

[Lerkfish]

3. I'm more pessimistic: I think Rumsfeld intends something so diabolical

even the generals must distance themselves from it.

I read it as Rumsfeld is prepared to nuke Iran. Even Hawkish generals don't want that to happen.

Its gotta be worse, whatever it is, than Iraq, or else they'd have spoken up sooner.

[Ecumenist]

6. It may be that he intends something horrific...

But these same generals have friends and families, Children and grandchildren too. I think that they are not going to allow this to happen. It will affect them and theirs in ways too horrible to even have nightmares about.

[cassiepriam]

14. I agree, the situation must be very serious for all of them to be speaking

out. I wonder what is happening behind the scenes, what do they know?

[Ecumenist]

29. The Stuff of Nightmares, Cassiepriam...

The stuff of nightmares and the sum of all fears and evil...

[cassiepriam]

33. yes my dear you sum it up correctly. nt

[Redstone]

4. No, you're not crazy. They're sending a message, all right.

Unfortunately, bushyboy and them ARE delusional, and don't understand that there will be a showdown with the military if they order an attack on Iran, if not an outright mutiny.

Redstone

[lwcon]

5. I would like to think you're right...

... but all, or almost all, the ones who are speaking out are retired.

Isn't it too ingrained in military culture to follow orders for there really to be a significant resistance?

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[Ecumenist]

10. My husband, ex -Military, told me that the reason

that active military don't speak out is because they would be prosecuted as well as losing pay and pensions. He told me that the fact that these generals are speaking out signifies their voices by proxy.

[lwcon]

13. Proxy theory sounds about right to me...

... but will it cross the line into mutiny among the active military?

There are reasons, both good and not-so-good, why it's totally against the grain of the military to always follow orders, yes?

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[silverweb]

7. Let's hope you're right.

n/t

[AndyTiedye]

8. "Will not allow"? What Part of "Unitary Executive" Don't You Understand?

[cassiepriam]

34. Yes military officers who do not follow orders go to Levenworth?

That said, the military may find a way to stall....

[AndyTiedye]

36. If The Brass Tries To Openly Defy Bush**, The Firing Squad More Likely

[cassiepriam]

38. Yes you are right, the lucky ones go to the gulags. nt

[MrModerate]

9. The military will "allow" Bush to do whatever he tells them . . .

Because the military answers to the civilian authority. Thankfully.

However, they DO appear to be growing more and more disaffected and will begin to drag their feet a bit when they detect chimp-boy trying to get them to jump off another cliff.

No mutiny, but a heckuva lot less hoo-yah.

[beam me up scottie]

11. I think they did it because Rice is trying to blame the

mismanagement of the war on "tactical errors".

In other words, on the military.

The generals are not willing to take the blame again, Vietnam was a learning experience.

[lwcon]

21. Vietnam *should have* been a learning experience

http://vastleft.blogspot.com/2006/04/forget-nam-apparently.html

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[beam me up scottie]

22. Yes, it should have.

Perhaps there was one generation too many in between then and now.

Or perhaps people are too wrapped up in their little worlds to remember what's really important.

I'm in a black mood tonight.

[lwcon]

23. The magic of Republican revisionism

I asked some twenty-something friends of mine if, when they were growing up, they ever heard Vietnam described as anything other than a quagmire and an unmitigated mistake.

They said they had not.

But come the 2004 election, when it was necessary for the Repubs to turn the tables on a double war hero (fought with distinction AND protested a tragically misguided war), they made Kerry and Hanoi Jane the bad guys, not the McNamaras and Nixons who wasted so many young lives. And our fucking pathetic media let them play right through and pull it off.

If we'd just remember how senselessly those young soldiers died back then, maybe their loss wouldn't be in vein. But what we're doing now just pisses on their tragic legacy.

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[beam me up scottie]

27. I can't stand to think about it sometimes.

I really can't.

Now that they own all three branches of the government as well as the media, it will be harder than ever to stop them.

[skeeters2525]

25. Vietnam was a learning experience

They learned you can start wars based on lies. Then blame the loss on those that point out you lost.

[beam me up scottie]

26. Very true.

Unfortunately.

A belated welcome to DU. :)

[lwcon]

28. It's never been more dangerous to be the "messenger" than now

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[NoAmericanTaliban]

12. Officers first duty is to protect the constitution & that is what they are

doing. Bush would probably want them to pledge an oath to him like Hitler did. This looks bad for Bush since they believe that all officers support him. Don't forget about one of the first generals to speak out against Bush - Clark - who tried to run against him. It takes a lot for a general to come out in the open like that and speak out against the administration.

[killerbush]

15. They can send all the messages they want,

Bush won't listen to them.

[Booster]

16. I think they're speaking out because nuking Iran would put our

troops already all over the Middle East in direct line of where the radioactive fallout will drift, and they are trying to stop that because, unlike Bush, they absolutely support the troops.

[anitar1]

32. Soenbax, exactly my thoughts. Have the people of this country

forgotten what radiation does? the world is full of ignorant fools.

[blue cat]

17. Some people

like my Dad, think that the generals speaking out are just sour grapes. It's going to take more than this for some to get it. Some may never get it.

[saltpoint]

18. I believe there could be reason to worry, Ecumenist.

Leading Republicans are speaking up, too, and their position seems generally to be that cooler heads need to prevail.

Prevail over tensions leading to exactly WHAT isn't fully developed and the press is only gingerly pawing around the subject so far.

The Bush aministration is so dark, so furtive, and so profoundly dishonest, that there is always cause for concern, and especially lately with all the talk on the viability of a nuclear weapons assault.

[Kailassa]

19. My feeling when I read about the Generals' statement

was that this signifies a good chance of those of the top brass who don't feel free to publicly sign it could still be influenced enough by it to refuse to co-operate with nuking Iran. And perhaps they will refuse to go along with a war on Iran at all.

If the people concerned feel, as I do, that there is too big a chance of few nukes dropped now escalating into a nuclear WW3 and wiping out humanity through nuclear winter, they just might care too much about Earth's future to co-operate in the affair.

[Ecumenist]

20. That's what I feel too

It's one thing to play war when it affects people and places that most will likely never see, as sick as that sounds. It's quite another to do something that has direct consequences affecting you, your family, your way of life, your community, country, ability to live and ultimately, your planet, with all it's fellow human beings and life forms.

[Auntie Bush]

24. I was going to post that many times...but didn't...too lazy

I noticed that all the generals spoke out just as the article revealed that Bush was planning on bombing/nuking Iran. I think they are trying to get rid of Rummy for what he's planning on doing to Iran...not necessarily for what he did in Iraq... but of course that was part of it. They want to take him out because he's scary dangerous...not because he doesn't listen and take their advice. We need to listen to the generals. They're WARNING us the best way they can. Wake up America! It's getting late!

Going after Rummy will eventually lead to Bush and Cheney. All roads lead to Rome.

[McCamy Taylor]

30. They wont allow the nukes. We know that from Hersch.

[cassiepriam]

35. Perhaps a Gore/Clark ticket makes the most sense

The military is badly shaken and we need serious help with global warming.

[pthalomarie]

40. i like Gore, but...

...he's badly tainted. the problem with democrats is that their new blood is too inexperienced to run yet, and their old guard is part of the reason they're a minority party.

plus, Gore's solutions for global warming aren't very smart.

[cassiepriam]

41. The problem is, any Dem is going to be tainted by repug

character assassination. But I agree, many want someone new.

I am hoping that a newcomer will arise. Certainly there has to be someone who can do the job, and who has not been slimed by the repugs.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

42. Our country and planet...

should be so lucky as to implement Al Gore's solutions for global warming!

[pthalomarie]

43. Gore's solutions won't work

they sound good, but at heart, they fail on three fronts:

-first, they ignore the 1st law of thermodynamics. Gore's solutions rely heavily on implementing large amounts of technology, which themselves consume large amounts of resources and energy,m which in turn cause their own pollution.

-second of all, he perpetuates our current errors: he assumes that modern environmental management is more effective than traditional environmental management.

-third, his vision relies on technology needy countries cannot afford, which will leave their implementation into the hands of the same corporations that are perpetuating our current environmental crisis.

[autorank]

37. I think it's coordinated. The timing of all of them at one time is no

accident or coincidence.

I'm glad that there are people in power doing powerful things who representsanity.

It's that simple -- sane versus totally fucked up. Nuke Iran, sure...get a life Republicans.