VERY SERIOUS QUESTION, What if we don't win anything in November?

[Nimrod2005]

What if the bad guys hang on to everything? then what? it will be worse than 2000, worse than 2002, worse than 2004?

Will it mark the end of the Democratic party as we know it? Will we then throw out all our so called leaders in 2008?

[goddess40]

1. It will be the end of democracy

That will mean three stolen elections or that the citizens prefer a fascist government - either way we can say good bye to the Constitution.

[BreweryYardRat]

2. Then we're fucked.

But I don't think it's going to happen.

Even if we have to counter electronic vote fraud by doing a complete revote with hand-counted, voter-verified paper ballots and shutting things down for months, we're going to win.

[Burning Water]

21. If they "win"

and if they are in control now, which they are, where are we going to get the power to make that happen? Demonstrations? I laugh in despair. They'll just be laughing.

[BreweryYardRat]

41. Don't be so negative...

Always look on the bright side of life! ;)

At least regarding politics.

P.S. Love the username-is it the reference to what I think it is?

[Burning Water]

46. I don't know

exactly what you think it is. For one thing, it's the name of an Aztec god.

PM me and let me now what you think it is and I'll tell you if you are correct.

[BreweryYardRat]

47. That was it.

Although I've always preferred "Smoking Mirror" as the translation of "Tezcatlipoca."

"Burning Water" certainly sounds more intimidating, though.

[Burning Water]

52. Well, there was a

reason I picked one, rather than the other. I had had some prostate trouble earlier in the week. But you don't want to hear about that. ;) Let me just say, the name fit.

By the way, I'm guessing you're a Mercedes Lackey fan?? :)

[Arugula Latte]

40. But the public in general has shown no inclination to to do this so far.

Which is what depresses me.

They seem to just shrug. Oh well. Who's going to win American Idol?

[acmejack]

3. It will mark the end of America as we know it.

Consider the implications, given the mood of the Country...

[Toots]

29. America ended as I knew it December 2000

When the famous non-precedent establishing Extreme court ruled "Stop counting the votes"

[Syrinx]

4. the end of the e-voting debate, for sure. n/t

[annabanana]

5. Laws will be passed against recounts....

(like in Ohio).. Nationwide. Then, every minute afterwards we will see the fruits of the "new and improved" Patriot Act. It will not be pretty. The avenues for a peaceful regime change here at home will be effectively shut off.

[Nimrod2005]

7. I was just going to say, you know they will stick it to us BIG TIME

us, includes all in the senate and congress, they will effectively bury us!!!

[HysteryDiagnosis]

6. Don't be a nimrod. Sorry, couldn't resist. :)

[HereSince1628]

8. What if the planet is struck by a rogue asteroid?

[Radio_Guy]

26. If the planet is struck by a rogue asteroid

That would be preferable to living under a GOP-laden Congress, WH and SCOTUS. We can expect more Katrinas, more wars, and probably WW3.

[Minnesota Libra]

9. I've been thinking about this more and more lately and....................

.......I fully expect "voting problems" :cry: from one end of this country to the other in November as well as in 08.:cry: If it happens we will officially become a dictatorship and I for one will use that word too.:banghead:

[yourout]

10. at that point "V for Vendetta" might be all we have for hope.

Chancellor Bush will be free to do anything he likes.

[scordem]

31. Bush will not even be on the ticket.

[Coastie for Truth]

11. How it could happen -

I think more then election fraud is our (Dems, Progressives, Liberals) uncanny ability to gather the wagons in a circle, face inward at each other, and commence firing.

1968- "No difference between Humphrey and Nixon." "Humphrey didn't break with LBJ soon enough." So, we got Trickie Dickie, four more years of war, the southern strategy, and watergate.

I have a Criminal Arrest Record from the 1968 Campaign - but charges dismissed - for having a Humphrey sticker on my book bag while still on active duty -- 18 USCode 7323 and Article 88, Uniform Code of Military Justice. I've been there.

2000- "No difference between Bush and Gore." "Vote for Nader as a protest." And so we got Bush.

[iconoclastNYC]

55. Unity Uber Alles

Ok.... don't blame the crooked SOS in Flordia in 2000 or Ohio in 2004 who illegally prevented people from voting.

Don't blame the crooked Republicans SCOTUS that said that the recount had to stop.

Don't blame the corporatists in our party who made Gore run such a "safe" campaign that he pushed out liberals to voting for the third party.

No just blame the true liberals who felt like they had no place in the party.

Too long our leadership has taken the liberal base for granted and 2000 was a wake up call and helped that's why Dean and Edwards ran populists progressive campaigns.

If the people who voted for Nader had voted for Gore that just means Harris would have needed to find a way to steal 20,000 more votes.

This "Unity Uber Alles" shit is total BULLSHIT and it plays into the hands of the DLC and the Corporatists.

[Coastie for Truth]

57. I was court martialed (UCMJ Art 88, 5 USC 7323 ) for having a Humphrey

sticker on my book bag - thank you.

And I did time in a Mississippi jail in 1967 for being a "God dam Jew yankee Outside agitator with Pennsylvania plates and a Pennsylvania License" thank you.

And my wife taught in New Orleans "Lower Ninth Ward" thank you.

I paid my dues.

[LWolf]

12. Election fraud could make it happen.

If it does, perhaps the mainstream power-brokers in the party will confront election fraud head-on more aggressively, and in time for the next election.

[Imagevision]

53. I agree Election fraud could very well make it happen, they already

did it in 04, if anytime they need to manipulate tabulators it'll be in November, besides, if they merely announce; "the polls were all wrong" again what would the Dems do?? -> anything??

[Coastie for Truth]

13. How to fight it

ORGANIZE! ORGANIZE! ORGANIZE!

Election Day -

Democratic Lawyers - with paralegals and cell phones - at every polling place and Board of Elections and Court House - to jump on everything

friendly media to work with us and our lawyers


network - network - network

Don't forget our natural allies in the religious left -- including the leftie Evangelicals. Jim Wallis is not unique.

[LoZoccolo]

14. What if we don't worry about that right now?

Will it have any effect on what we're doing right now?

[Nimrod2005]

15. Maybe part of me is thinking we are not doing much, and

that's why verbalize the thought?

[GOTV]

38. It might shake some Dem complacency...

... if we bring up the very real possibility that the GOP will still control all three branches of government next year.

[Imagevision]

54. don't worry about that right now? - umm, wait until AFTER the election?

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. This is very likely to happen

The current Republican stranglehold on the Congress is damn near insuperable. i think everyone here should be prepared for the likelihood that, while D's will pick up a number of seats, Republicans will retain a slim majority in the House and Senate. Now, their positions will be significantly weakened, since they'll see these broad based losses as dangerous for their remaining seats in 08, but, as it stands, I predict that R's will retain a 4 seat majority in the House, and a 2 seat majority in the Senate, and DUers should be good and goddamn ready for that, or these boards will implode in recriminations and infighting.

Added note: It won't happen through any election fraud or anything so silly. It will happen because 1) the leads in both chambers is too large at this point, 2) the republicans have been extremely busy redistricting and using other props to assure continued incumbent victories, and 3) the Republicans have been very good at getting their grassroots support to the polls.

Mind you, there will be massive dem pick-ups, and it will have to be read in the media as a tendency, but it will be nearly impossible to overcome all 3 factors this year. The elections of 08 are a different story.

[underpants]

18. Yeah"Washington insiders" are just that

they aren't voters. As much as people on this *political board* are fired up about it most people aren't in fact they are burned out on it (see Fox News ratings). I do think that this was part of the '04 election fix strategy-deliver a devastating blow to people who heavily invested time energy and money into 2004. Really kick the wind out of them. We'll see but I have to say that at least in Va. a lot of people stuck around to work on the 2005 Gubernatorial race.... again we will see.

[Nimrod2005]

20. Well said, good post....You may have left one thing out:

The humiliation in the MSM of dems. not being able to capitalize on overwhelming weakness in the GOP ranks with all cards stacked against them...etc. and dems still cannot win!

[annabanana]

22. there is an assumption here

That the Republicans in "republican districts" will always vote republican.....

~ that may no longer be the case ~

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. Guilty

But really, the assumption is that while SOME Republican districts may turn, it is unlikely that ALL of them will, which is necessary to overcome the large current deficit. All three factors have to be read together, in other words. Of course anyone of them wouldn't be enough, but when taken together, they spell out what will happenin November.

[napi21]

34. ABSLUTELY RIGHT! I'm paying a lot more attention to the

Pubs who are very disenchanted with the results of the Pub control for 10+ years in Congress and 5 1/2 years in the WH. There will always be some who will blindly support their Party, just as there are always Dems who do the same, but both are a minority in their respective Parties. I think it's most critical that we pay close attention to the disgusted Pubs who are now saying, we DID give you the chance you screamed for, for so long, and you said you make things MUCH BETTER. You DIDN'T, and now you're out!

[bunkerbuster1]

24. Yep. Pretty likely scenario.

We will see anything less than a Dem majority in the House or the Senate as a humiliating defeat, when in reality, the way the cards are stacked (with districting and a generally unrepresentative system of government), it would be extremely difficult to do any better than to pick up a some seats here and there and thin out the Gooper majority.

We do need to be, as you say, "goddamn ready" for that, and recognize that this is a long, tough row we've got to hoe.

[mdmc]

30. a very long tough row to hoe

Organized labor, voting rights, anti-free trade... All the things that we need, the Dems have long since abandoned. Or part of our party has abandoned. It will be a long road to victory.

[Doctor_J]

27. If you thnk having only slim majorities will make them

govern in a more Constitutional fashion, you've been asleep for six years. Smirk lost in 2000 and still declared himself to have a man-date. On the contrary, if their lead shrinks but remains intact, I expect them to begin taking steps to codify voter fraud, punishment of dissent, nd the tyranny of the (however slim) majority. if the head count in the House is 218-217 in favor of the GOP, I expect to hear even less from Conyers, Waxman, McDermott, and the few other leaders we have.

IMO, if we don't take one house of Congress this year, we'll be in Nazi Germany.

[rockymountaindem]

43. I agree with you

I'm holding out for '08, and I think '06 is merely setup for later elections. I don't think we'll be able to win back either house.

If I've learned anything recently, it's that local politics are just as important as national politics. Therefore, I'll probably be paying the most attention to Democratic attempts to win the governorship of my state and retain the legislature.

I fear, however, that the scenario you described will lead to a meltdown on DU as all the people with unrealistic expectations for this November pronounce the Dem. party dead at the very moment we're getting somewhere for a change. I don't look forward to it.

[Orlandodem]

45. I agree. They may retain Congress. I don't think that is

a completely bad thing. I'd like for the Dems to have subpoena power in one house, though.

I think we need a few more years of building the grass roots. I think we need a couple more years of soul searching. I admire the right for standing up for their wacko core beliefs. I hate that on the Left many Dems are fearful of doing the same. Maybe another cycle as the minority party wouldn't be so bad. We won't have to lead. We can block their crappy agenda if we get to around 48-49 seats in the Senate and are only a slim minority in the House. Gridlock is a very good thing as far as I'm concerned.

We'll pick up seats. It's a matter of how many.

[neoblues]

17. Having the Breath Knocked Out

If we don't at least regain control over the House of Representatives, it's going to feel like we've had the breath knocked out. It'll be terribly distressing and depressing, but we'll go on somehow. Conditions in America will continue to decline and possibly fairly rapidly; as it gets worse, the impetus for change will grow. By 2008, if we still have elections, we should surely be able to at least restore balance to the Congress.

However, nothing can save us from further suffering--there's been too much Republican caused damage. Even if we had a clean sweep this November, we'd still be facing damage that probably can't be repaired for decades. That's troubling because if people do vote more Democratic and some power is restored, being used to instant gratification, they'll expect we can make everything better in no time and will be disappointed.

As soon as possible, we need to find "sound-byte" sized ways to package key ideas. We need effective, novel/interesting/memorable "anti-frame" arguments to begin dismantling the Republican platform. Don't we have "think tanks" of our own, staffed with people who are experts in advertising and rhetoric? Why don't we have anti-Republican argument strategy booklets or some such things. Given the simple facts, it seems we should be able to easily shred their ideas and arguments while expressing our own in contrast. In preparation for doing so, we need some tools (such as the booklet notion) to help educate ourselves with our party's platform so each of us can provide a clear and effective explanation and show a united front. Of course, most of us probably have a fair grasp of such things and any printed package of talking points would be seized upon by Repubs and no doubt receive it's own 'professionally' produced countermeasure.

For whatever reason, on the thought of preparing for the elections I suppose, I was just trying to think of some bumper-sticker/sound-byte type 'slogans'; feeble as my effort was I thought I'd tack them on here; maybe get some of those who are more clever at such things to start thinking...

Campaign slogans (enhancements and additions needed, no doubt)...

"Time For a Change, Vote Democratic"

"Save Our Democracy, Vote For Democrats"
"Save Our Nation, Elect Democrats"
"Save the Republic, Vote Democratic"
"Save America, Elect Democrats"

"Stop the Insanity, Vote Democratic"
"Stop the Foolishness, Vote Democratic"
"Stop the Bleeding, Vote Democratic"

"Vote Against Stupidity, Vote Democratic"
"Vote For Reason, Elect Democrats"

"Vote Democratic, It's The Right Thing to Do"
"Do the Right Thing, Elect Democrats"

"Choose Democracy, Vote Democratic"
"Choose Balance, Elect Democrats"
"Democracy Needed, Vote Democratic"
"Restore Order, Choose a Democratic"
"Restore Balance, Democrats Needed"

"America Needs More Democrats"
"Citizens Needed, Elect Democrats"
"Make a Difference, Elect a Democrat"

"America First, Choose Democrats"
"Democracy First, Vote Democratic"
"Freedom First, Vote Democratic"

"Congress Needs Balance, Elect More Democrats!"
"It's Up To You, Vote Democratic"
"It's Your Decision, Vote Democratic"

(now, for some with a little more 'attitude')...
"America First, Republicans Last"
"Democratic Order, Republican Disorder"
"Democrats Save, Republicans Destroy"
"Democrats Fight Fires, Republicans Start Fires"
(hmmm, that one sounds like we're voting for local fire marshal...)

"Democrats Support Democracy, Republican's... Don't"
"Democrats Support Democracy, Republican's... are Just Confused"
"Democrats Support Democracy, Republican's Tear It Down"
"Democrats Support The People, Republican's Support... The Wealthy"

"Democrats Support Democracy. Decision 2006: Democracy or... "
"Decision 2006: Democracy or... Republican Corruption"
"Our Democracy is in Danger, Vote to Save Her, Vote Democratic"
"Republicans Are Destroying Our Democracy, Vote Democratic"
"Vote to Stop the Lies, Vote Democratic"
"Vote Democratic, It May Be Your Last Chance"
"America Lost, Republicans Won"
"Democrats Are Better Than Republicans"
"Democrats Listen To All, Republicans Hear Only Themselves"
"You Decide, Are Republicans 'Deciders'?"

"Republicans Lie"
"Republicans Cheat"
"Republicans Destroy"

"Mommas, Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to Be Republicans"
("Mommas... Babies That Never Grow Up ARE Republicans")

etc.
Disclaimer: Some of the forgoing slogans would not only not work, but might stimulate unpleasant attention from some Republicans...

[Vinca]

19. November is the real turning point because a Congressional

majority is more important than having the White House (although we want that, too . . . duh). My main worry is election fraud because we know how commonplace it is and how nothing is ever done about it because the thugs are in power. And now, of course, even the sheeple are waking up and are likely to vote Democratic or stay home (except the hard core wingnuts, of course). Election fraud may be their only way to stay in power. How do we deal with it if no one will investigate? Editing to add I realize John Conyers gave it his best, but they wouldn't even let him out of the basement to do it.

[WePurrsevere]

23. We keep fighting - We keep raising awareness - It may take a while BUT...

for me at least... giving up is NOT an option unless I'm literally dead... and then it just won't make of a difference to me will it? ;) Sorry but life has taught me that although I may be down I'm NEVER out. If I can make it through some of the life stuff that's been thrown at me, that at the time I was fairly sure would take me down permanently, I can make it through and beat almost anything else that life, and politics, throw at me.

Many of the kool-aid drinking Americans are slowly waking up from their haze (and a good piece of that is because of bloggers and activists getting the TRUTH out). These Americans are not happy about what they're seeing and learning and they are not happy about being played for a sucker and a fool. :grr: I truly believe that there WILL eventually be repercussions against the neo-CONS in office.

Also... History has proven repeatedly that even the mightiest eventually will fall & the oppressed win freedom & civil rights (think Rome, Mandarins, black slaves, women's rights, etc, etc, etc). It just takes to lot of courage, patience and time... sometimes even a lot of it. ("this too shall pass") Eventually "what goes around comes around" so hold on to hope... and keep on fighting the good fight... eventually we will persevere... history is on OUR side... not this "mad King George's" (any more then the last mad King George who thought he had full control of this country... at least until 1776 or so. :evilgrin: :patriot: )

[mdmc]

28. the dems are the only game in town

until a progressive movement sweeps the country. We are not there now.

[Tiggeroshii]

32. If we don't win anything or if we don't gain anything?

cause we'll definitely win something in the non diebolded states. But gaining seats to the party in the legislature is another story.

[kentuck]

33. Then it's a whole new ballgame...

Isn't it?

[bdamomma]

35. think positive and get everyone you know

TO VOTE.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

36. Then it's business as usual

America has whethered bad administrations before, and will do so again. It won't be good news - the economy will get worse, Iran may well be invaded, the troops will stay in Iraq, abortion may well start being restricted, and so on - but it won't be the end of the world.

Don't be deluded into thinking that the problems of the present day are bigger than those of the past or the future just because they're not as far away.

[Nimrod2005]

49. I hope you are right....

[Post]

37. John McCain - WhatCha Know

McCain a Conservative? As Three 6 Mafia says, JM, WhatCha Know bout that? HERE: http://postanapology.blogspot.com/2006/04/john-mccain-whacha-know.html#links

[FrenchieCat]

39. We will be deeply fucked...which is why I am tired of the Presidential 08

discussions....Gore '08, Kerry '08, even Clark '08!

The bottomline is without a "win" in 2006, fuck all of that!

Further, whichever of the '08 contenders does the most to elect 2006 Dems is the Dem that I will support....and I ain't just talking about throwing money from their kitty either....cause that's too easy for the Dem Fat Cats contenders to do (read Hilary!)

So yes, 2006 is most important.

PS. I'm Going to a breakfast raising money for a congressional candidate who may be able to oust one Rethuglican come November next Monday. I Will also be giving money and time too!

There are a few others on my list.

I suggest that we all do what we can! :patriot:

[Nimrod2005]

50. Agreed, 2006 is it for us.

[Brigid]

42. That's easy.

I will immediately contact the Canadian government to start the ball rolling on getting permission to enter Canada as a permanent resident.

[Timmy5835]

44. The WILD card

It's voter turnout. Republicans really don't have much of a reason to show up at the polls, Democrats have every reason. I think you will find many more Democrats and like minded voters turn out then Republicans. That, my friends, may lay the answer.

[Greyhound]

48. Then The Corporate Party wins and there will be no election in '08. n/t

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. 
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[rodeodance]

56. You have a valid concern. I do not even want to go there though.