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I am so sick of this "Dems don't have a plan" shit

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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:06 AM
Original message
I am so sick of this "Dems don't have a plan" shit
If you don't come out with some dumbed down plan for the American people on an index card and call it Contract with America, the general public doesn't get it. Second of all, if people actually followed the legislation that Dems propose on a daily basis they would understand that we have no control over the plan. We are going to have to spell it out for the public in simple terms quickly before the midterm elections.

Who will be the orchestrator of this? Dean, Reid, Pelosi? We have to quit assuming that people should understand our plan. Someone needs to get up to the podium and articulate in simple terms the huge difference between where the GOP has taken us and how we plan to right the ship. We are worlds apart from their stances on just about every policy but the public keeps repeating the "what will the Dems do differently?" The GOP has mastered the disingenuous talking point. If they wanted to they could start saying the Dems don't care about the environment and when repeated often enough people would start mindlessly buying that argument.

This mantra they are using against us about our lack of having a plan is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy because we are not communicating our plan effectively as we could be. If we have to dumb it down for the soccer moms and NASCAR dads then that is something we must do. Most Americans are not watching CSPAN.

Final point: Even if the dems failed to articulate their plan for one or all of the following reasons: they are either spineless, simply poor communicators, or they are unable to get media coverage; why would it matter anyway? Do people not understand the simple reality that Dems in charge = something resembling the Clinton years while GOP in charge of every branch = miserable failure?
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. We might have a plan, but we haven't found somebody to articulate it.
That's still our fault.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. Maybe you should blame the corporate news media as well
You enter into an arena for the boxing match. You're handicapped because the referee is bought out. If you can't or won't realize that, no amount of fighting will make you win in the long-haul. You'll win a few rounds here and there, but you, and ultimately democracy, will lose when you fall under a second rise of corporo-fascism with the ulimate propaganda machine called the corporate news media that is "free" because it isn't "state-run."
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I did, did you read near the bottom?
n/t
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Chipper Chat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. When you are pinned in a wrestling match it's all over.
The GOP heavyweights have the advantage and smother any Dem idea. We must, MUST take one branch of Congress this fall to lift the evil GOP destruction machine off of our bodies.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
5. Here's your damn postcard
*I* am so sick of progressives who sneer down their noses at the dumb soccer moms and NASCAR dads when they don't even know what the hell is going on in their own party.

I'll post Dean's plan so you don't have to sully yourself with Kerry's plan, which is virtually identical and received rave reviews at 2 focus groups in Iowa and New Hampshire.

http://www.dnc.org/agenda.html

On April 29, you're supposed to take this plan, that fits on a goddamned doorhanger, and go meet your neighbors with it.

http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/03/print_your_own.php

Jesus fucking christ. You want spine? You want balls? You want an ass-kicking? Right here. But be warned, the ass I'm likely to kick is probably yours.
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. You missed the point entirely
I know the plans. It is the average American that doesn't log onto the internet and research it. We have to play by their rules. I can still remember Gingrich pulling out his little card everywhere he went. The media was all over it. People got it. It was wrong but people bought it.
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Oh, BTW, if you haven't noticed, internet threats of violence are
a little empty in substance and very transparent. Try another tactic pal.
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Another clarification: you called them dumb not me
My stereotype that soccer moms and Nascar dads are generally not tuned in to the political landscape does not mean they are dumb. Dumbing down the message is for the purpose of coming up with a gimmick to get through to those that would rather hear a quick sound bite than to go online and read Dean's plan.

I will let you know how that whole doorhang idea pans out in the most conservative county in the country that I live in.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. bla, bla, bla is a comeback
good one
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Pierogi_Pincher Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. Thanx for the links.
Read the plan. Effective.

Use 'reciprocity' in waging the campaign. IOW, 'REPEAT-REPEAT-REPEAT'.

Agreeing w/ OP to deliver quick sound-bites that pack a punch.

As an aside, your name evokes more blissful days. Missing the CT/Long Island Sound shore.

;)

P_P
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Sound bites are there
And the ones that tested very highly in Iowa & NH,

(1) Obey the law, and Protect civil rights in this country.

(2) Tell the truth, and tell it to Americans all the time.

(3) Fire the incompetents, and Restore competence and integrity to Washington.

(4) Chase the money changers from the temples of democracy, and
reclaim it for the grassroots of this nation.

5) Bring our troops home from Iraq.

(6) Find Osama bin Laden, and Secure our ports and homeland.

(7) Stop subsidizing “Big Oil,” and start investing in energy alternatives.

(8) Make access to affordable healthcare a right and not a privilege.

(9) Reduce the deficit, and Respect work over wealth.

(10) Invest in education, and Fight for American jobs that restore the American dream.

I'm clean out on the other coast, and obviously need to spend a little more time in more serene surroundings! :)


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Pierogi_Pincher Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. Excellent!
Can't wait for them to come to our state w/ their message.

Our governor is a Dem. We supplied John Edwards. Those cursed voting machines. I literally got physically sick over election nite results. I feel 'most' Dems seeking office show intellect and coherency when opening their mouths. They have this edge over the dark side. They got in 'em. (Those damnable voting machines.)

We're landlocked-haven't been near the coast for over 21 years and it's making me nuts.

P_P
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LiberalPartisan Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
20. I quit responding to the 'no vision' thing
Like there's is working?
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Pierogi_Pincher Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
6. In other words...
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 03:06 AM by Pierogi_Pincher


"Democrats in charge-> GOOD.
republicons in charge-> BAD." ????


On edit, no 'soccer moms' or 'NASCAR dads' in the family, but do live in one of the lower 48's.
Your referencing of those that identify w/ the above was not thoughtful.

However, I have been waitin' to hear ~SOMETHIN' SOMETHIN'~ substantial (kick-ass wise) from the blue party.

"Hello? Anybody home?" :eyes:

:dem:

(It's 3:42 a.m. EST and the screen is blurring. This is my last edit.)

****P.S. Legal woes, i.e., LAWSUITS, are being heaped upon the heads of the
three purveyors (companies) of E-voting machines!! YES!***
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. I didn't see your edits until now
Ya know, I am sick and tired of apologizing and having to clarify every remark I make on this board. The reason I don't is because I assume that DU'ers are generally intelligent people and understand nuances without having to explain them. As Bill Maher says, stereotypes are necessary.

I don't feel the need to have to explain to people here that there are certainly informed soccer moms in the world. In fact I would venture to say that if you are on DU and a soccer mom you are informed. However, the majority of soccer moms I deal with out in the world are not, plain and simple. Fine, they are pursuing a noble cause; the raising of their children. I think that is great. It doesn't make them any more informed. How do you know I am not a soccer mom? Can't I be secure enough with myself that I can make a comment about my peers. I can't tell you how many times I have criticized stupid white men as Michael Moore did. Clue: Michael Moore is a white man.

I know 5 Nascar dads and they are all either ignorant, stupid or both. Sorry that is my limited sample size. Certainly. Do I have to change all my rhetoric so I don't pisss off the intelligent Nascar dads? Not in this lifetime. The whole PC thing is the one thing that pisses me off more than anything in the Dem party. If I insult someone out there in cyberland I am making a blanket apology now if you are the exception but I will continue to use stereotypes when necessary to make a point.

Don't we make wild assumptions about republicans every day on this site. What if every decent republican got on here and took offense to that. That would get old.
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rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
7. having a plan, invites attack
better to,
attack the other candidates, and their plan.
go negative early and offen

nobody wants to be attacked
the best defense, is a go offense.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
31. Baloney, a discredited theory
When you don't define yourself and your party to voters, the opposition will do it for you.


That's been proven time and again and Dems have suffered for it.

Dems have a plan and they need to repeat it early and often until the public is sick of hearing. Only then will they understand it.
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rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. three US Senators voted in the Terry Shiavo matter
mud does not stick to a ghost
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
12. I doubt that

Voters do have a pretty good sense of what the two parties are about. No individual person seems to have it all straight, but in aggregates (e.g. exit polls) you can see that collectively a pretty sharp sense exists of what the Parties are about as a practical matter.

Reexamination of the Contract with America in 1994 shows that the voters really didn't understand it or even know about it. It was a device in the Republican Party apparatus that got Gingrich a group of new House members who all had the same "ideas", i.e. his. That's why he considered it such a success. None of the consultants or other knowledgeable people thinks the Contract made a lot of difference in the results at the polls.

About the Democratic agenda...I think you're missing the forest for all the trees.

I've walked a few people who've asked me the same question, or asserted that Democrats don't have any plans, through it this way. First, I ask them to find and explain a particular problem that concerns them, i.e. Iraq, or taxes/spending. Then we walk through the basic facts and the Republican "solution". And then I ask "So what would be the intelligent thing to do?" They then describe the sensible obvious thing, which doesn't overlap the Republican solution. To which I then inform them: "That just happens to be the Democratic position."

But, and this is key, this does not actually convince them. In the end they're either confused or somehow in disagreement with the aggregate of conclusions, or both. I can't get them to remember what they figured out clearly, or it somehow doesn't satisfy them in some obscure way. It's like a computer crash- they try to mentally reboot and usually do.

After the fifth or sixth time, I finally realized this "Democrats don't have a plan" in't really a Democratic problem of substance or communicating it. It's a statement by these people about themselves and the narrow and provincial perspective in which they prefer to view things of the kind. They've become accustomed to being accommodated, their prejudices/limited understandings catered to, to not being challenged. They fear the realities they've neglected and denied, as a result, and prefer to avoid them further.

I've decided it's not worth trying to persuade these sorts of people yet. Their lazy, comfy, provincial/conservative political perspective has to profoundly fail them before they give it up. The silver lining is that some amount of this is going on constantly and incrementally.

So, I don't see the need for a very large amount of specificity on the part of the Democratic leadership. Republican leaders failing and Republican voters unable to function in their narrow mental comfort zone is what decides the next elections.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Interesting
I agree with the mental reboot and "It's a statement by these people about themselves and the narrow and provincial perspective in which they prefer to view things of the kind." That's true of all kinds of people, they are just stuck in a particular perspective and that perspective is to trash Democrats. Don't even ask, but my husband and son were having an argument about socks today. My son wears ankle socks and my husband came up with some stupid excuse for not wearing a pair. My son says, "that makes about as much sense as saying I'm not voting for Democrats because they wear ankle socks". Well, that's exactly right and that's what people do. It's about how they see themselves and they just can't see themselves as voting for a Democrat, for whatever engrained reasons and fears.
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. I agree with much of that
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 04:31 AM by joeprogressive
However, I do believe we lost many votes, and statistics do prove this, to people that were taken in by th RW spin. My mother was one of them. She was a life long Dem that said Kerry wasn't a good alternative to Bush. She couldn't be more wrong but she shouldn't be discounted as someone that will never listen. She was listening, she just heard the incorrect message from the wrong side. We have to be the message for people like her. She is the classic example of an intelligent person that has become ignorant and complacent. Thats what the republicans want. There are millions out there just like her.
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Pierogi_Pincher Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. In re: earlier response to your OP--
no excuse, but I had one BB week filing timely tax returns. May I say that no apology is due me. I'm not a 'soccer mom' and husband is not a 'NASCAR dad', no interest whatsoever. I'm a frickin New Englander now living among these people in a southern state. I guess I felt an offense for THEM w/ your reference. Sorry I came off that way. There's a ton of genuinely decent people here that have work ethics that are exemplary. Not like my lazy butt. Maybe not having received the schooling that others did for whatever reasons, they don't think their heads off the way I do. The approach that works for me is I usually open w/ a mundane remark about general state of affairs. Their response leads me to continue or can it. And I do mean can it.

Reading THIS post of yours, my jaw dropped open. My mom, also a life-long Dem, "just didn't like Kerry".(?) I asked her why. She said she couldn't say. I wonder if Clinton's hanky-panky is still stuck in her mind. My mother is older, but intelligent. I freaked out. I started preaching to her every chance, pointing out the deceit of the republicons. She came around after a while, and now she can't stand u-no-hoo.

And I did take your OP into consideration and gleaned from it. Thank you.

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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Likewise, there is no apology needed from your end
I frequently get in trouble with my wife for making broad generalizations. I use them out of convenience but try to evaluate everyone as an individual. I do a lot of research and run in to a lot of statistics that back up many of the stereotypes that get perpetuated.

The good thing about starting this thread is I got to learn about the door hanger campaign which sounds very promising. It will actually be most effective with soccer moms. Many tell me they just don't have time to read a newspaper or watch the news. They are surprisingly honest about their level of political disengagement. The door hanger is short, sweet and honest.
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Pierogi_Pincher Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #28
33.  I am enjoying the dialogue in this thread.
It was necessary for me to adjust my perception of others having found myself in a totally different environment. Didn't quite expect the mindset (generally speaking) that I encountered here. It is a growth experience. I do understand where you're coming from by explaining continued stereotyping supported by large statistics. In 'campaigning' for the party, I try for not bumming out any individual from the get-go, engaging them in mundane stuff they identify with, then mundane comments about the way things are today. Next, try to get a read on how easy/difficult the exchange would be. Sometimes it's a bit tricky. Example: Buds for 4+ years now. Politics never came up. One day last year I was troubled by something revolting the gops did or said (so what else is new). I made a remark to him that day about the present administration, finally feeling him out. He responded contrary to what I expected! I guess I thought I had a reading after being in his company this long and considering he's from across country. Whatever he said back, I clammed up. The thing I don't want to do is proselytize. This I keep in mind. Bottom line, I do unto them, well you know. Another example: older neighbor, knew he was repub from comments he would make esp. about Clinton. I said, uh-oh, we gotta live one here. As gently as possible, I put forth what I knew to be true about leader and the gang. He got totally blustery. I zipped my mouth. He initiated these exchanges, but I never became unglued. I like him anyway. Wellll, one conversation last year, he blurted out admitting voting for **** and how sorry he made that mistake, voting for that money-grubbing expletive! I didn't do much, just lent an ear now & then. He came to the light himself.

The door hanger concept is cool! And you're right--short, sweet and on point. I'm hopin' the second template will reproduce nicely on a PC with some quality stock. Will put my husband on notice to fire up the machine!

Yikes, I babbled.

P_P
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
24. I totally diagree with your assessment about the 1994 CWA
The consultants can speculate all they want but the repubs did win back the house. I do agree that most people didn't have a clue to what was in it. It was the perception. "Wow, those people are willing to make a contract. They are really tryin" It was all BS, but people bought it. That uis the electorate we are dealing with.

Why do you think presidential polls would change overnight after a Saturday Night Live skit favored one candidate over the other? Who are the people that said they approved of the presidents job performance on 9/12/01 and disapproved on 9/10/01? His numbers went from 40 something to 90% approval. I will say it again. There are millions of ignorant or unintelligent (many are both) voters out there.
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. well-

The story of the '94 elections is that a lot of moderate/conservative Democrats stayed home, not unusual turnout of voters for Republicans. Both sides had a partisan base of 37-38% that year; Democrats kept substantial majorities in Congress despite stalemate of the popular vote due to gerrymanderings and bias toward incumbents in the South and Midwest. National turnout in November '94 was about 38% of Presidential election voters for Republicans, i.e. 100%+-5% of their partisan base. National turnout for Democrats was 34% of the Presidential election voters, or 89% of their partisans.

National pollings throughout 1994 show control of Congress numbers getting to almost 70% wanting Republican control during that summer. That number fell off and declined into the fifties during the fall, i.e. when the Contract made its appearance. You could even plausibly claim, from pollings that followed Gingrich rolling it out, that the Contract diminished Republican support. The Contract was in fact lifted with only some modification from Ross Perot's 1992 Presidential campaign, i.e. had been previously rejected by partisan Democrats and Republicans alike. The Contract did what Gingrich hoped it would do in the electorate, bring Perot voters over to support for him and his Party, after the '94 elections.

When people have decided they reject one side, they'll justify their vote for the other side using the best excuse they can find that has public currency. The Right is far lazier about making up excuses.

About the SNL Gore skit and '9/11'....there simply was a lot of rot, anger/resentment, sense of deprivation, paranoia, and plain willingness to do some evil to deal with these pent up in the average American psyche during the Cold War and Civil Rights era and shift away from the agrarian/industrial economy. We suppressed it all as best we could during the Cold War and its immediate aftermath, made a lot of low quality and (at heart) temporary compromises among ourselves simply to keep up what was the necessary priority, the fight against the USSR. As a country we binged between periods of then-unbearable virtue (early Eisenhower, Kennedy/early LBJ, Carter years) and indulgent, horrible, vice (late Eisenhower, Nixon, early Reagan, late Bush Sr years) in dealing with the situation. In the pattern the Clinton years are another period of unbearable virtue to the Right, and the Bush Jr years are another period of the horrible indulgence and vice.

During the Cold War the plain fact is the country simply didn't settle its problems in a sound and solid way. It was just muddling through. Around 1990 political consultants in the U.S. and everywhere else in the West and former East were telling everyone that the political Right was in ascendance- that there was tremendous anger about the condition of things, i.e. an awful lot of people who discovered themselves maladjusted to the world and the world itself in horrible condition according to their values and desires. In a word, a widespread condition of arrested development and arrested mental adjustment, a lack of adaption to the realities of things.

I see the present, i.e. Bush Jr-defined, years as the final indulging in and burning out of the Cold War extremisms and pathologies once fully embodied in the Nixon crew. Our national politics has to a large extent been a recapitulation, a rearguing, of the country's past and unresolved problems. You could claim that the Nixon people in part reargued the Twenties, under Carter and Reagan we reargued the issues and developments of the FDR years and WW2. Bush Sr.'s Presidency rehashed much of the Truman years (defunding the military-industrial complex) and recapitulated the Korean War in Kuwait. Clinton's Presidency started with a rehashing of parts of the domestic business of the Truman Presidency (healthcare, integration of the military, nonuse policy of nuclear weaponry, destruction of a do-nothing Congress) and a lot of the Eisenhower Presidency (McCarthyism, early feminism, imperialism mixed with paranoia, Hungary, Indochina, technology-based prosperity/class mobility).

The Bush Jr. Presidency begins, IMHO, with a rehashing of Fifties Civil Rights arguments in the South as the crux of the Bush-Gore race, which culminates in the vile abuses and disenfranchisement of black voters of Florida that effected the result. Next we got a recapitulation of the Gary Powers incident in the E-3/Hainan story. Then we got the JFK framing of Bush and the JFK invocation to justify the 2001 tax cuts, and the RFK/Mafia fight is recommerated in the California energy debacle and Enron scandel. Then there's a psychological revisiting of the dramatic height of Cold War existential fear- the Cuban missile crisis- via '9/11'. The Afghanistan business is sort of a corrective on the Bay of Pigs. The Cuban business at the time led to Vietnam, a terrible psychological urge to somehow fight the 'Communists' in a palpable (if objectively counterproductive) way in some arena which didn't put the country itself in danger...which, as you know, is at bottom the popular rationale for the Iraq invasion/occupation that followed and conceptualizing of Iraq resistance as 'Terrorists'. (Oh, and Hussein was/is a relic of Stalinism and the worldwide Soviet Cold War alliance itself. As are Castro and Il Jung.) In the form of the Dean-Kerry-Bush argument we rehashed the cultural and 'security' arguments of the late Sixties and early Seventies. The gay marriage legalization stuff coincides, in this time pattern, with the gay rights effort that followed the Stonewall incidents.

In the past two years we've rehashed and revisited the problems of the early and middle Seventies. Stagflation, unmanageable federal deficits, globalization, American industries becoming dinosaurs, male chauvinism outbreaks, and oil supply crisis, Presidential lawbreaking and investigation to the point of collapse of an Administration, political loss of a war overseas and at home...familiar, huh? And now it's on a political change of tone to moderacy that the hardliners of the Right hate abyssmally, to settling a score with the Iranian theocracy, and trying to settle some border and diplomatic issues in Israel/Palestine. There's an argument going on about legalizing immigrants from Latin/Caribbean countries that somehow doesn't really get settled, recapitulating the furore around the Mariano boatlift. And, like in 1978ish (and lasting to 2002 or so), there's a widespread and building sense that the various groups in power are obsolete and the domestic political order is about to change drastically. Like at that time, there's a sense that a kind of revolution is in the making.

And as all this stuff gets reargued- and tacitly there's a sense that it settles things, that there's never going be a need for a third go-over of any of it- voters feel an ever-diminishing need to back or empower the people who create this pseudo-rerun and rehashing of the country's Past.

That's my best explanation for all the pretty bizarre phenomena of the past couple of years. Be that the Lewinsky craziness, 1994, Gore's falling short, that post-9/11 insanity, Kerry's fate in '04, Iraq, or the present tipping of the center to liberal and the slow defection of moderate Republicans.

And I predict that we'll see the issues of 1980 and '81 and '82 cropping up and being rehashed in the political arena in the next couple of months. Unaffordable tax cuts, tough militarist bullshitting, tactical disaster on the ground a la Lebanon, more focus on propping "friendly" bad Latin American regimes by upping the violence, more faux nuclear weapons threatmongering. More pseudo-championing of bigotted social views that all political sorts know are hopeless. Bush will go Reaganesque, become a smiling face and facade and try to be an optimism-spreading leader of a hollow and defunct Cause.




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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
13. Dems do have a plan the real problem is most of the people out there
aren't intellgent enough to grasp the plan. They want simple, easy plans and they want results yesterday. They can't seem to grasp the ideal that any plans that are going to work are going to take time. Quick easy fixes are what they want as long as they don't have to do anything to get it. Repukes give them that which always leaves them in a mess. What makes you think repukes have plans? The only thing they ever done was look out for the top 10% and tell the rest what they want to hear, how often has a puke plan ever worked out for the good of all americans?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. As I said
Simple and easy is right here.

http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/03/print_your_own.php

And after we get this message out there, the next complaint will be where's the details. Because that's exactly what Republicans did during the election, flip back and forth, no plan, no details. And our own people eat it right up and repeat it ad nauseum, even though they know the media does nothing but feed them with right wing talking points.

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RedTail Wolf Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
21.  Got my door hangers printed up
Gonna strut some out this weekend. Pray for me..... I live in a red state, in a red county, in the reddest district in that county AND I have long ass hair! My car has Honor Native American Treaties, and 2 DU bumper stickers on it. Gonna be VEEEEEEERRRYYY interesting. If I can do it so can you!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. Yay!!!
I think it's going to be awesome. I still don't like Howard much as a candidate, but he is one hell of an organizer and idea-man!!
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. Exactly, but it is the perception that rules the day
They can repeat dems are only attacking us and they don't have a plan and people start believing it. I never said we didn't have a plan. I said I was sick of people repeating that bullshit.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #13
32. Repitition does the trick
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 08:38 AM by OzarkDem
Dems have to get the message out, stick to it and repeat it over and over and over.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
29. Personally...
... I'm not so sure the "lack of a plan" isn't a strategy.

Meanwhile, here's my idea for a Democrat plan statement. It will need a little cleaning up, but I think it is succinct, effective and accurate:

"We won't fuck up like the Republicans do 24/7".
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pthalomarie Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
30. the doorhanger is a start, but that's all.
People need to read it more closely. For example, look at point #2:

"We will protect Americans at home and lead the world by telling the truth to our troops, our citizens, and our allies."

This is a pretty nebulous (and wishy washy) claim. People don't care what we "tell" other nations; everyone who's possibily inclined to consider voting democratic knows in what ways the Bush Administration decieved us, and they know how we're percieved globally.

What people want to know are the meaty issues:

- Would Democrats bring home the troops?

- How soon, if they will?

- Will a democratic leadership leave Iraq completely? What about Iran?

point # 4:

"we will create jobs that will stay in America by restoring opportunity and driving innovation."

I'm not sure what "driving innovation" means.

As for restoring opportunity for keeping jobs in the states, I'm not sure if that's within our ability to control, anymore. This is the kind of goal thatis admirable, and may win votes, but will probably be impossible to accomplish.

point # 5

The republicans beat us on this one by connecting health care with socialized medicine. i'm not certain that Americans will be impressed that 36 countries run a similiar plan. Americans are notoriously myopic; they tend to care about what works here, not what Canada or France are doing.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
35. i agree with your post totally. worse, dems seem to be as willing
to continue these false stories as much as any repug or media
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
37. Query:

Do people believe that the best approach is

a) develop a plan(s)/a new plan(s)/more plan
b) try and convince the electorate that the Democrats do in fact have a plan or plans
c) ignore the talking point entirely, and try and win votes through other means
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Late Slip Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
38. The problem isn't the plan (or perceived lack thereof), it's
communicating the plan, and having one effective key spokesperson (Dean isn't that effective, but I'm not sure who the alternative would be) and try to get everyone to sing from the same song book.

Second, the details of the plan are good. However, delivering the message needs to be distilled into a memorable phrase - like "Stand up for America" or something that people can respond to.
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AJH032 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
39. It's too EARLY to articulate a plan
If we release some Contract with America type of plan now, it will be subject to criticism for too long. Don't forget, Contract with America didn't come out until right before the election in November '94.
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