"I told them to send an ambulance because I was going to die." Computers!!

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

For anyone who still believes computers are infallible and therefore should be trusted with the life of our country (aka Democracy), you might want to see just how wonderfully spectacular they can FAIL.

This is the story of a motorist who's computer-controlled "Drive-by-Wire" BMW went insane:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/11/ntrapped11.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/03/11/ixportaltop.html

A motorist was trapped in his car driving at almost 130mph for 60 miles after the accelerator jammed.

Kevin Nicolle, 25, was unable to stop the automatic BMW going at top speed after the malfunction on the A1.

<snip>

"I used my hands-free phone and tried the AA <like the AAA> to ask them what to do ... but they told me to hang up straight away and phone the police. I dialled 999 and spoke to a woman and by this time I was starting to panic because the speed of the car had increased to 100mph."

Police alerted a helicopter and four traffic cars set off to try to catch him as Mr Nicolle kept up a running commentary, all the time flashing his lights and sounding his horn to warn other motorists.

"My brakes were burning out and starting to fail - that's when the speed really started to build," he said. "I could see the speed building to 120mph or 130mph. I remember starting to shake and freeze up. I was really panicking and broke into tears. I couldn't help it because I thought I was definitely going to die.

"I was trying to slip the car into neutral but because the car was over-revving and red-lining I couldn't do it.

"I couldn't turn off the ignition because it would have disabled the power steering and made it even more dangerous. I was even shouting at the other drivers to get out of the way, I was getting hysterical. The traffic was getting heavier and I had to take drastic measures.

The comment from the voting-machine, er, driving-machine manufacturer is priceless:

A spokesman for BMW, which wants to examine the wrecked car, said: "We are unaware of any issues of that nature with that particular model."

This story is only one of literally thousands of documented RISKS that come from computerized systems.

For over two decades, these computer-based risks have been monitored and commented on by the
"Forum On Risks To The Public In Computers And Related Systems" and plenty more computerized horror stories can be found at their digest site:
http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/

Computer-based voting/election systems DO NOT have a track record of infallibility. In fact, to anyone who might say, "well in all the years, they'd be fixed BY NOW", this is from RISKS' 1st digest, back in August 1985!!:

... an article by David Burnham (NY Times) in newspapers of 29 July 1985 (NY Times, SF Chron, etc.), on vulnerabilities in various computerized voting systems. About 60% of the votes are counted by computer programs, with over a third of those votes being counted by one program (or variants?) written by Computer Election Systems of Berkeley CA. Burnham writes, "The allegations that vote tallies calculated with <[that program>] may have been secretly altered have raised concern among election officials and computer experts... In Indiana and West Virginia, the company has been accused of helping to rig elections." This topic is just warming up.

Here's the results of searching all of the RISKS digest for voting issues:
http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/php/risks/search.php?query=voting+OR+election

Here are some choice notes and commentary from just before and after the 2004 election:
eVoting standards and testing- 31 May 2004
Some thoughts on the 2004 U.S. election process - 3 Nov 2004
Some 2004 voting anomalies - 8 Nov 2004

For those who really want a full helping of WTF?! take a look their "Illustrative Risks to the Public in the Use of Computer Systems and Related Technology" specifically on VOTING:
http://www.csl.sri.com/users/neumann/illustrative.html#25

* * *

In summary, you know what voting technology DOESN'T pose any technological RISKS?

Hand-cast
Hand-counted
Paper Ballots

Go figure...

Consider sending this to your elected officials or "media"... it really packs a 130MPH punch!

P.S. If these stories spooked you like it spooked me, help spook DU and beyond by giving this a vote... Every 100+ vote story about the importance of ensuring the sanctity 2006 election WILL get the attention of those beyond DU, and brings us one step closer to making it happen -- we still have time!

*Special Thanks to PGN!

[autorank]

1. Better chance in the BMW...at least there was no ill intent. K&R

That's a great car story, too bad we still have to worry about getting our vote counted by equipment provided with the explicit intent of controlling us. I want to read this again and savor it but I must say that the links are superb. Particularly the RISKS digests on computer voting. That's a gem and I have not seen it prominently featured in any fraud articles. NEW STUFF...GOOD STUFF

Highly recommended. Thank you.

[fooj]

4. Wow. Just wow!

Peace.

[1monster]

2. The BMW my husband bought 20 years ago was the most

unreliable piece of doodoo we have EVER had. We had it for a year, and it spent seven months of that year in the shop. It kept stalling out in traffic... while we were moving. The second from the last time we brought it home from the BMW shop, it stalled out thirteen times in less than eight miles.

They finally fixed it but, by then, we had had enough.

We traded it on an Astro Van.

[guidod]

47. Wasn't there a lemon law then?

[1monster]

48. BMW had a policy that if a new car was brought back to the shop

three times for the same problem and still wasn't fixed, they would replace it.

After picking up the BMW from the shop the third time and having it stall out thirteen times in eight miles, my husband called up BMW and said pick it up, now. I don't want that piece of !@#$%^&* any more.

They picked it up. The repair shop boss decided to drive it to be detailed out for resale, and it stalled out on him (according to BMW, that was the first time they had been able to reproduce the problem at the shop).

They had sandblasted the heads, replaced the brain, and a multitude of other repairs without fixing it. In the end it was in the clutch, something DH had told them from the beginning.

The repaired it and DH took it back only to trade it in a few months later.

[riderinthestorm]

3. Jayzus. Just reading the story got my heart racing!

Great analogy!

[autorank]

5. Great ride too....you know that guy loved it (after he survived;) n/t

[bbinacan]

10. I had a similar experience though

not as extreme. My BMW is an older model without drive by wire. Last Thankgsgiving my throttle began to stick and then accelerate. I never got above 90 mph and was able to control my speed with the brakes. Also, periodically the throttle would free up. A little nerve wracking and nothing like what this guy went through. Needless to say, I missed Thanksgiving dinner. Turns out the cables were gunked up.

[cosmicaug]

6. Looks like "drive by wire" had nothing to do with the incident.

FULL_METAL_HAT wrote:
This is the story of a motorist who's computer-controlled "Drive-by-Wire" BMW went insane:

It looks like "drive by wire" had nothing to do with the incident. It's a story about a stuck accelerator pedal and a stupid driver.

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

7. It was found on the computer RISKS forum

http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/24.25.html#subj8

Don Norman contributed an item: "Motorist trapped in traffic circle for 14
hours" to RISKS-24.22 on 1 Apr 2006. This reminded me of the following. I
checked, and I was surprised to find that no one seemed to have reported it
to RISKS, although it smells to me very much like an engine control system
failure, and possibly a software failure.

It was widely reported in the UK press at the time. The following is one
account by Nick Britten, which I found on-line, originally printed in the
*Daily Telegraph*.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/11/ntrapped11.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/03/11/ixportaltop.html

The comment by the driver regarding the power steering and the reaction
of BMW, are particularly interesting.

The poster here is from Centre for Software Reliability, City University,
Northampton Square, London, who would be closer to knowing the situation of such things.

[1monster]

8. Ever heard of what used to be called "sudden unexplained

acceleration? 60 Minutes did a story about, I think, an (car name deleted) that killed a child with sudden unexplained acceleration. Audi tried to say that the people who had this kind of accident in (manufacturing company name deleted) had paniced and pressed on the gas rather than the brake.

We've had two cars do that. The first time, no one knew what caused it. The second time, I was driving and I had recently read something about moisture getting into the cruise control line and creating the circuit needed to increase the speed.

Fortunately for me, I was pulling into my driveway, going less than ten miles per hour when it happened. I put my foot on the break to maneuver into my parking spot and the car didn't stop. I put my full weight on to the break with all the force I could muster, and it still didn't stop.

So I threw the car into park and finally that stopped it. (I should have put it in neutral, but heck, I was within six feet of my house; I didn't want to crash into that). There was an eight foot mark on the driveway where my breaks tried to stop the car but couldn't hold it.

The car did it again when my husband took it out to test it.

I had the cruise control disconnected the next day and have not had a problem since.


on edit: Just in case I was wrong about the car name, I deleted it.

[autorank]

15. I was going to buy an Audi and I saw that 60 minutes. Wish 60 min would

cover election fraud.

That was the strangest story because the owner, an Episcopal minister I believe, just turned the sucker off and boom, it accelerated and smashed someone around. It was at the point where they were doing their first "chips" in cars. That cost them dearly, Audi sucked wind for 5-6 years in sales.

Why can't we stop buying these stupid voting machines? Answer: because the Federal government buys them for the counties...crams them down their throat.

I'm got over my Audi jones and bought a good old American car, Honda, made in Ohio!

[Kellanved]

25. Audi had that PR issue

They went the wrong way and did a scientific study that there was no way the events could have happened like described. It still is seen as one of the biggest marketing blunders commited by an Europan company; it destroyed their US business for a decade.

Technically Audi was almost certainly correct - it probably really were isolated cases of overpowered cars and idiot drivers.

[ContraBass Black]

34. Amen. n/t

[wakeme2008]

9. IDIOT driver what more can I say

""I couldn't turn off the ignition because it would have disabled the power steering and made it even more dangerous. "

you can still steer without "power steering"........

Jerk...

[1monster]

11. You can? My steering wheel locks when the ignition is off.

Don't most of them?

[wakeme2008]

13. just checked my Jeep

:)

only when you are in park and turn the key to the position to remove it will it lock up. One click kills the engine but does not lock the steering wheel.

[1monster]

27. Thanks for the info. I hope I never need it, but it will come in handy

if I ever do. :)

[Tesha]

38. Your steering doesn't lock until you remove the key.

Because of this very situation, the steering wheel lock
is a lot more sophisticated than "When it's in "OFF", the
wheel is locked".

Once you start the engine, the car will remain drivable
until the transmission is back in park and you remove the
key.

Tesha

[autorank]

17. Here's what the safety expert said:

Check this out:

"WELL, TRY THIS...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2080205,00.html
Stephen Mead, assistant chief examiner at the Institute of Advanced Motorists, says:

DO NOT

# Put your foot underneath the accelerator pedal and try to lift it up. You could lose control of the vehicle

# Brake. It will not help as the accelerator will still be jammed on

# Pull key out of ignition — the steering will lock

# Try to use handbrake. “The rear wheels are likely to lock and then it’s goodnight Vienna”

DO

# Shift the car into neutral

# Turn the key one notch to kill the engine. You will lose power steering and power-assisted brakes but you will still be able to control the car"

I "will lose power" -- "able to contrnol the car..." Great, no problem.

[wakeme2008]

20. right

I posted above, one click kills engine two is to remove key and does lock the steering..

[Festivito]

23. Brake, Downshift, Neutral, Off.

They engine might blow in neutral, but better a dead engine than a dead you.

The off key won't lock the steering unless you're in Park. In Park, your transmission will lock the wheels, but many cars would not allow you to shift into Park while moving. And, better a dead transmission than a dead you, as well.

[TahitiNut]

39. Today's power steering is VARIABLE power-assisted.

The 'variable' means that the assistance is reduced as the velocity of the vehicle increases. At the speeds cited, the power-assist is virtually nonexistent. A driver would hardly notice the difference in the effort required to turn the steering wheel.

[ContraBass Black]

46. Details, details, details.

THE MACHINES ARE THE ENEMY!!!!!1111111oneoneone

[autorank]

12. And there's more...BMW Sounds like Diebold, ROFL

...although I'd trust them a bit more than Diebold but...



"I took my foot off the accelerator because it's automatic - but I wasn't slowing down at all.

"BMW's UK media relations manager, Duncan Forrester, said: "I would certainly like to reassure anybody driving any BMW that we see this as really nothing more than a freak accident.

"We have absolutely no record of anything such as this happening in the past, hence the reason why we want to take a close look at it."

-----------------------

Now who does the BMW rep sound like?

Blackwell, Mitofsky, the New Hampshire Republican party lying like a dog about not phone jamming?

This is the perfect analogy. Our democracy is the car, we're the drivers, and somebody screwed
up the frigging microchip that's supposed to keep things working. The results are not
commensurate with the size of the chip, they're tied to the result and the experience.

How did you feel on election night, 2004...like you'd been through the ringer, maybe a little
like this guy. I did. I knew it was all a lie and I'd been forced to vote on a damn lousy
voting machine with no real record. And the machines in place had failed miserably in a 2003
election resulting in the outcome of a race changed. Enough.

CANADA VOTES WITH PAPER FOR NATIONAL ELECTIONS AND THEY'RE DONE COUNTING IN FOUR HOURS.
WE CAN WAIT THAT LONG FOR REAL VERIFIABLE PAPER BALLOTS.

[DrGonzoLives]

44. Engineers never make mistakes

Therefore, everything that happens that is bad is the result of a conspiracy.

[LeftCoast]

14. Computers are bad. Mmmm'Kay?

:)

[bleever]

16. I think I just cast the fifth vote!

The notion that computers make everything better is as sensible as the idea that all computers are bad.

Some things are just better when done by hand.

[autorank]

18. That's for sure! :hi:

[stellanoir]

19. yikes

talk about reliability

sheesh

[Pavulon]

21. Shit for Brains Driver

Put it in neutral. It has a rev limiter it will stop. Then turn it off.

A car will steer without power steering, they did for 50 years.

A twenty five year old idiot was the problem here.

It is a machine. Like any machine it requires the person using it to not be a monumental moron.

This is a testament to stupidity not computers.

[POAS]

22. Well said

He was worried about not being able to steer? How well did he think the thing was going to turn at 125?

[Kellanved]

24. Where is a computer or "drive by wire" in this?

The accelerator jammed. That's a very basic, mechanic problem.
No cruise control or anything else computerish involved.

Kill the ignition, a car not controllable without ignition would never be allowed on European streets (least of all German streets).

[glitch]

26. This seems like a hoax - even if he didn't realize he could turn off the

ignition, would the people he was in contact with tell him?

[FogerRox]

28. Drive by wire means there is no mechanical means of connection

From the Driver (user interface) to the motor or transmission. Wonder if BMW uses a Windows platform? Most cars made in America used an IC (Transistorized) Engine control modules by 1985, IIRC GM used the C-4 and the C-5 modules during that time. For at least 10 years, maybe more, IIRC all cars use cpu based engine management computers. Cheap ABS brake systems use a cpu with Firm ware, more expensive cars use more robust CPUs & SW.Then you have the enviromental computer.....

All it takes is a bad sensor, feeding the wrong info to the computer. The computer then tries to correct, based on the wrong info.........

IIRC, the F-35 Military jet, gets screen locks, Or Windows freeze. Tends to cause the pilot to bail out.

[glitch]

29. So this means the driver cannot cut the ignition even if they want to?

Glad my most recent car is from 1987!

[FogerRox]

30. I didnt say that. The Key is in the ignition, turn it off.

[ContraBass Black]

33. I've never heard of any production model that is completely

Drive by wire.

[seemunkee]

42. Mini's are drive by wire and engineered by BMW

I would suspect BMW's from 2003 on most likely have it.

[ContraBass Black]

43. So there is no mechanical connection, whatsoever, between pedal

And drivetrain?

[seemunkee]

45. Correct

[Kellanved]

35. yes, but IIRC BMW uses no such technology

Hybrids are often drive-by-wire, for obvious reasons. BMW has no hybrids.

[Blue_Tires]

31. yeah

cars today (especially high end luxury cars like M-B and BMW) are filled with about 20 different electronic nannies, etc...when something electronically controlled fails, watch out

[ContraBass Black]

32. Accelerators jammed before computers were invented.

And just like before computers were invented, shifting into neutral and cutting the engine allows the car to stop without locking the steering.

[dogday]

36. I had that happen to me with a 63 chevy impala

I was a Senior in high school when the pin that connects the pedal to the accelerator broke and it opened up the carb and the car started to fly up to 120.. I lost it, I did not even think to turn off the car.. I tried the brakes, it did not help... I tell you, something saved me that day as I weaved in lanes without looking and took the first exit doing over 100, I don't know why but I saw a gas station off the exit and went for it... Right as I was about to hit their rack of tires display, I decided to put the car in park, it backfired like a cannon went off and I stopped inches from the large tire rack disply...

They ran over to me and wanted to start cussing, but when they opened the door, they saw me scared to death, crying, so they stared consoling me.. I tell you, it was one of the scariest things that has ever happened to me. I was indeed lucky....

[DrGonzoLives]

37. Is this DU or a meeting of the Butlerian Jihad?

I get confused sometimes.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

40. I find it entertaining...

...that people are using computers to complain about computers.

[DrGonzoLives]

41. Kind of odd, isn't it?

n/t

[paineinthearse]

49. I trust computers

It's the human factor I don't trust.