I don't believe any of the "Bush is religious" crap. At all.

[garybeck]

It's been said that the religious fundamentals are in control of the republican party.

I say no.

Today Bush said "I Base A Lot Of My Foreign Policy Decisions On Some Things That I Think Are True... One, I Believe There's An Almighty"...

I call Bullshit.

The republican machine is about corporate power. It's about money. The religion thing is just a game. It is a convenient tool to gather votes. yes it is true that there are people within the republican party who are fundamentalists but they are not setting the policy. the people in charge, the people who are making decisions, put on a FAKE religious costume and say things like Bush did today because they need to keep their base, and they need to energize the brainwashed religious fanatics.

When Bush goes to church, it's a show. He's mumbling to himself about how boring it is, just like all the other eight-year-olds there.

Just look at what they do, not what they say. Fact: Clinton went to Church much more than Bush. Fact: Jesus said bless the peacemakers. Fact: Jesus said to help the poor. I could go on. Just watch what they do, not what they say, and it's OBVIOUS that they don't believe in God and they don't follow the teachings of Jesus.

The religion thing is just another lie. They need religion on their side or they are dead.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

1. kicked

:kick:

[DS1]

2. I can't think of a single other DUer who does believe it

[garybeck]

7. did you see Mark Crispin Miller on CSPAN earlier this month?

i have a TON of respect for MCM, but he stated at the end of his lecture, that the religious fundamentalists are at the top.

[onehandle]

3. Yep. They use religious people. Use them. nt

[Punkingal]

4. I agree.

I have always thought it was a sham. But then, so many of those who claim to be religious, like Falwell and Robertson, seem not to have even read the Bible, with the things they say, and the hatred and intolerance they advance. I think so many of them are just deluded. Or downright hypocritical. Or both.

[Drum]

61. me too,

and I appreciate your observation about their Bible-reading, Punkingal. The crazy fundies I encountered in yesteryear---college---seemed to be extremely selective in their reading and quoting the Good Book, more as in parsing words and using snippets to justify their wackiness or even ill deeds. Though I am no longer a church-going Catholic, since my 'teens, I had (and still do) treated the Scriptures as broader messages and stories, as opposed to a collection of rationales.

These days however, I see that the zealots who so proudly refer to themselves as Christians seem to deal excusively with Old Testament bigotry and superstition (like the Crusaders did) while mostly (entirely?) ignoring the messages of love, tolerance, and benificence that took over during Jesus' lifetime...the very things that prompted the name of this branch of religion, Christian.

If they weren't so dangerous, the fundies would be amusing.

[Xeric]

5. agreed

The only thing these guys believe in is money and power. They know that playing the religion card gets them votes from the kind of people that are too gullible to think for themselves. I'm not talking about all religious people, just the ones that buy into every con that comes along just because someone says Jesus.

[bdamomma]

6. this man is not religious

he is quite the opposite. Bush is a psychopath.

[jody]

8. * is a tool for the corporate party that uses divisive issues to polarize

republicans and democrats so the corporate party passes more laws that move us toward a corporate state.

Benito Mussolini said, "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of State and corporate power."

[stellanoir]

9. Our culture is one that worships money only

regardless of by what heinous means it is acquired. That is reflected in every aspect of society. There is nothing remotely "Christian" about that. Espousing faith and living it are two entirely different things.

Bingo. And go figure.

frigging blatant hypocrites

Ughhhhhh

[blondeatlast]

10. NAILED HIM, but not to the Cross as so many of his followers might think.

He's the ultimate New Pharisee--and the entire Book of Matthew may as well read as a critical anlysis of his practice of Christianity.

Matthew and you have him by the short hairs, my friend.

[unblock]

11. they do believe in god, and they do believe in forgiveness and salvation

they have to in order to get through the night.

it's just that they also believe that forgiveness and salvation is their birthright, that money is proof god loves them, and so on.

[garybeck]

12. right, that is just their twisted way of dealing with the guilt.

but when it comes down to it, religious ideology does not set the policy.

[Vickers]

47. "they also believe that forgiveness and salvation is their birthright..."

"...that money is proof god loves them"

BINGO!

Wow, that is almost exactly what I was thinking, but I was going to word it as something like:

The closest they come to being religious is saying, "Thank God I'm a rich motherfucker."

[unblock]

49. lmao!

much better put! :rofl:

[biscotti]

13. It's all so phony

It makes me want to puke.

[CAG]

14. fundies only talk the talk.... their idea of walking the walk is to

1)whine about how persecuted they are when they are criticised for bashing people different from them, 2) cry about the 10 commandments not being in the courthouse when they don't even instill the sermon on the mount into their kids, and 3) ignore the one-third of the new testament which deals with materialism, caring for the poor and downtrodden, and loving thine enemy.

Fundies = Pharisees

[Drum]

15. If he truly believed in an Almighty,

he'd surely be a lot more careful!

Or...Is he beginning to admit to a Crusader mentality?

[kitkat65]

40. It's more like the Almighty Dollar n/t

[no_hypocrisy]

16. Nor do I believe he has a spiritual counselor in the White House.

Otherwise, he would have been taken down a peg by now and lost his delusional thoughts about being a prophet and right hand of God.

[CAG]

17. A passage you'll rarely find emphasized from the fundies:

Matthew Chapter 5:
43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

If you only love those who love you, what reward will you get? Even the TAX COLLECTORS do that! Remember, tax collectors in those days were told to get a quota from the citizens, and whatever they could get extra from them they would keep as their pay. Kind of reminds you of some Bush/Cheney friends from the oil companies, drug companies, and contractors such as Halliburton??

[blondeatlast]

18. I've said it many times--Matthew was prescient when it came to

George Christ.

Of course, that's the book that seems to have been left out of an awful lot of Bibles somehow.

[jerry611]

19. Religion is the most effective method of social control

That's the first law of political science.
Look at the mid-east, and you can see how the leaders use Islam to control the population.

It starts at the very earliest ages. I remember very clearly as a kid. My father was deeply religious and dragged me to church every week. And you are told at that early age that if you don't follow the bible or if you don't follow god or the church, that you will not go to heaven.

So it's a scare tactic. And when this is programmed into a child, they grow up with that fear. So when they are 30 years old, their thinking can be controled.

[blondeatlast]

21. I'm still a devoted Christian and about as open-minded as it gets.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.

Nevertheless, I'm always happy to welcome a new DUer! :toast:

[jerry611]

28. I'm not arguing that god doesn't exist

Im not arguing god's existance. That's a whole different debate.

I simply said that leaders and governments will use religion as a tool to control the population. And the church uses scare tactics to force followers to keep with the religion. That's nothing new.

[blondeatlast]

33. No worries--and you are right, it is often exploited for control. nt

Again, welcome to the best political site on the web!

[garybeck]

23. as true today as it was 2,000 years ago

when the Romans took over Christianity and distorted it completely. not much has changed.

[IndianaGreen]

20. Bush is as religious as Jim Jones

and just as crazy! Like Bush, Jim Jones considered himself a new Messiah. He got all of his followers killed, just like Bush will get us all killed.

[blondeatlast]

22. Pretty good analogy--I'm surprised they didn't offer Kool-aid

at the Easter Egg hunt!

[Patchuli]

35. Aw jeez louise lighten up please!

I don't think anyone's ready for that or will permit that to happen!

[Jeffersons Ghost]

53. Bush is NOT as religious as Jim Jones

and crazy people EVERYWHERE will likely find this comparison insulting... Many who are insane are intelligent and sensitive, unlike the village idiot... King Solomon describes Bush in no uncertain terms in Proverbs... the animal in the White House is a stupid FOOL!

[bdamomma]

54. why doesn't bush just

take his 32% with him, and leave us of out of it. Sick stupid man. He is just shameful.

[young_at_heart]

24. This has been a useful tool any time he needs to explain himself

When he's asked a tough question or has to make a decision he conveniently "turns to God" for an answer. The really sad part is that so many people find this acceptable.

[kestrel91316]

25. I call the faux Christians "Christofascists". They just see christianity

as a VERY useful tool. If Jesus came back tomorrow they'd hang him for treason, or ship him off to Gitmo.

[Brazenly Liberal]

55. I call them the Christiban

Christian + Taliban = Christiban. because of the way they intrude into others' personal lives and bedrooms and want to control them. It's all about domination/power with these people. And believe me, they are good at it. They don't just spout this BS, they supply tons of material to local churches - ready made Sunday homilies on how to be Godly by being a tool of the GOP. I hear regular reports of churches featuring sermons that are mainly a long list of GOP talking points.

[Zynx]

26. It's always about money

Look at their policies.
Policies that have benefitted the religious reich: a handful
Policies that have benefitted corporate America: Every single damn one

[AtomicKitten]

27. The behavior is not Christ-like in the least

and actually an abomination.

I really wish REAL Christians would step up and make this distinction; it would be much more believable coming from them from we secular, heathen, hedonist, godless, run-of-the-mill Democrats.

[garybeck]

30. it is anti-Christ like, if anything

the thing that really POs me is that so many people buy his bullcrap. true, many are realizing he lied about war, but I'd bet a bunch of cash that if they did a poll on which politicians are religious, the republicans would win. truth is, the only religious people there are the ones who have been fooled into it, and those who wear religion as a fake costume.

[AtomicKitten]

36. The Republicans use religion as a shield and a campaign prop.

[Raksha]

44. "A campaign prop"...I like that!

I'm always on the lookout for a good phrase. Hope you don't mind if I steal that one!

[Mr_Spock]

29. Neither Bush nor his RW evangelical moron followers are remotely religious

You are 100% correct, it's just another of their insane projection lies.

[mtnsnake]

31. Bush is a master of turning religion into hatred and divisiveness,

the only two ingredients that keep him going.

[leftofthedial]

32. he's a liar

he's a sociopath

[Patchuli]

34. Mr. * needs to be reminded

that America is supposed to have a separation of Church and State. Surely there is some procedure to do that?

[BrklynLiberal]

37. There was a song back in the fifties I think....

"How can you believe me when I say I love you when you know I've been a liar all my life."

[Zorra]

38. Yeah, Hitler played the religious card too. n/t

[w8liftinglady]

39. refer to the sermon on the mount

http://www.biblepath.com/beatitudes.html

Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.

6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11"Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

I'd say....Bush would be the poster boy for all things UnChristian

[checks-n-balances]

70. BINGO! Also, there's the lesser-known Sermon on the Plain from Luke

From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sermon_on_the_Plain

The Sermon on the Plain consists of:

* Beatitudes (Luke 6:20-26)

* Love your enemies and turn the other cheek (6:27-36)

* Treat others the way you want to be treated (6:31)

* Don't judge and you won't be judged, don't condemn and you won't be condemned, forgive and you will be forgiven, give and you will receive (6:37-38)

* Can the blind lead the blind? Disciples are not above their teacher (6:39-40a)

* Remove the log from your own eye before attending to the splinter in your friend's (40b-42)

* A good tree does not produce bad fruit and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit, each tree is known by its fruit (43-45)

* Why do you call me Lord, Lord yet not do what I command? (46)

* Whoever follows these words of mine builds on rock and will survive, whoever does not builds on sand and will be destroyed (47-49)

I like this verse from "The Message", a dynamic version in modern English:

26There's trouble ahead when you live only for the approval of others, saying what flatters them, doing what indulges them. Popularity contests are not truth contests--look how many scoundrel preachers were approved by your ancestors! Your task is to be true, not popular.

[UrbScotty]

41. I'm a Catholic, and Bush's values aren't mine (nt)

[NoSheep]

42. * is not religious. he just feeds on the pathology of those who are.

I'm afraid there are too many. they go vote. but that doesn't matter when the elections are stolen anyway.

[OneBlueSky]

43. Bush' "religion" is merely a political tactic . . .

designed to attract the religious right nutcases to carry the banner for his hair trigger social issues (abortion, gay marriage, etc.) . . . he's aabout as religious than Madeline O'Hare Murray . . .

[CPMaz]

45. The only thing that is holy about Bush and his admin

it that he and it are wholly corrupt.

[Skittles]

46. they know how to pander to their ignorant, pious religious base

and those people are very easily fooled

[sendero]

48. I agree with you...

....100%. Bush is merely following the American tradition of using religion as a cover.

[Justice]

50. Bush rarely goes to church. You are completely correct.

I have said as much for years.

[nicknameless]

51. Agreed. Thanks for posting this.

The religion hooey is just a performance for the sheeple.
This is evidenced in Safavian's memo about the religious "wackos". They're just an easily-manipulated voting block.


Bush professes to be a Christian, but breaks most of the Commandments.
His Minister told him that to attack Iraq would be "a violation of God's laws". So he switched churches.

It's just like his photo-ops after Katrina, rolling up his sleeves and pretending to care. His "religion" is only for the cameras.

[Canuckistanian]

52. It's religion with a vicious mean streak

And someone should write a book on how one man hijacked an entire religion in the most powerful nation in the world and used it as his own personal PR machine.

Sure, there were underpinnings of the Christian right's power before, but the two of them together combined to make a sickening dance of greed, sanctimony, shocking callousness and total incompetence.

Fooled you once. I only hope the nation don't get fooled again.

[cboy4]

56. It's irrelevant whether he's truly religious or not...

His right wing christian fundamentalist extremist supporters are too stupid to analyze whether he's lying.

They'll support him as long as he says a few "praise jesuses" here and there.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

57. Charles Manson's followers claimed he was the second coming

After he was arrested for the killings, they would chant outside the courthouse, "It's the second crucifixation of Christ!" over and over again.

[IronLionZion]

58. He may have a religion, but it sure isn't Christianity

Money is his god and his after-life may be hell. They'll all reap what they sow. Karma is bitch if you want her to be.

Money won't help them where they're going.

[lavenderdiva]

59. Matthew 7:15-25

Matthew 7.15-25

15 ‘Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus you will know them by their fruits.

21 ‘Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord”, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22On that day many will say to me, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?” 23Then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.”

24 ‘Everyone then who hears these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on rock. 25The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on rock.


Question: do you see any fruit in *'s actions? I didn't think so.

[LynneSin]

60. Joe Biden made the best comment about Bush's faith

Joe Biden was on Bill Maher's Real Time (on HBO) about 2 weeks ago. He didn't really say anything important, didn't talk about trying to get out of Iraq and did say he was running for president.

But the one thing that Joe said really sums up what George Bush's faith is all about. I guess when Biden was in meetings with Bush about the war (back in 2002), Bush kept saying his instinct was it was the right thing to do to go into Iraq.

On Maher's show Biden said "Bush makes his calls on instinct and then prays to God that he was right"

[AlCzervik]

62. agreed, he also doesn't give a shit about abortion one way or the other

or guns or many other things.

[Arugula Latte]

77. I would bet my right arm that if Jenna or Babs Jr. got knocked up

she would be at an abortion clinic so fast it would make your head swim.

[bloom]

63. I don't think Bush* is religious, either

But what's up with the Right-wing Christian "wackos" (Scanlon's term for them) ?

[Rocknrule]

66. Democratic Christians worship Jesus. Republican Christians worship Bush

Nuff said

[vssmith]

64. A marriage of convenience

It is obvious that there are two factions in the Republican party--co-existing in a symbiotic relationship. Sometimes one can see a fissure develop such as in the immigration issue.

The question is where does Bush fit in. Personally I think he has a foot in both camps. Bush, IMHO, is Robertson-type religious person. The original poster opined that these people are not very Christian and I must agree. At the same time, Bush likes to hang out with rich people and he craves their approval.

I heard Tweety refer to "Sermon on the Mount" Democrats. That would be me--not much of a Christian but a subscriber to many of the values as taught by Jesus.

[Rocknrule]

65. So?

He hates gays, that's all that matters
:sarcasm:

[Inland]

67. Bush lies so much, it's hard to tell what, if anything, he believes.

Who could ever know, without a hypo of sodium pentathol and a pair of pliers?

[Scriptor Ignotus]

68. one could argue that Religion is all about power and money

for those calling the shots of course.

Case in point: Pat Robertson
http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Pat_Robertson

Robertson's net worth is between $200 million and $1 billion dollars according to the 2002 book The Best Democracy Money Can Buy by Greg Palast. Through his ostensibly charitable organization, Operation Blessing International, Robertson claims to have spent $1.2 million bringing aid to refugees in Rwanda. His critics, such as Palast, however showed that the money was actually spent to bring heavy equipment for Robertson's African Development Corporation, a diamond mining operation.


With all due respect, I think in many ways "the Church" is far more powerful than GE, Exxon, Halliburton, Microsoft, Coca-Cola, McDonalds and Wal-Mart combined.

As to whether Bush is faking, I have my doubts. I know I couldn't quit drinking alcohol unless I had a religious epiphany of some form. :toast: :party: :puke: :hangover:

[eppur_se_muova]

69. Partiotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel? No, it's religion.

If you can't come up with any half-plausible reason why people should do what you want them to, just claim that God said they should. After all, God works in mysterious ways, and who are you to question his judgement?

(BTW, this is not a criticism of religion, any more than the original quote I'm paraphrasing is a criticism of patriotism. It's the exploitation of the beliefs & sentiments of others that is being justifiably criticized.

/spelling

[RedG1]

71. bush and ALL his supporters worship the

Almighty Dollar

[Coastie for Truth]

72. My grandfather was a "Leftie" Clergyman

and he observed that those congregants who were the most ostentatious in the religiosity were really the least religious.

I think Bush's great show of faith is all marketing hype.

[AX10]

73. Read Kevin Phillips "American Theocracy" in order to....

understand the unholy alliance between BIG OIL, Financial firms, and religious fundamentalists.

[JerseygirlCT]

74. Yes, I agree with you. And I look forward to the day

that the "religious" right figures out they've been used.

His faith is about as deep as his character. That is, not very, and only when absolutely necessary and convenient.

I don't think there's any sincerity in the man at all.

[rocktivity]

75. Piety is just another Orwellian weapon for those guys

It's all about convincing people that though what they do is illegal or immoral by human standards, their "love" of God/G-d/Allah/etc. means that they are doing "good," and more important, that their "will" must not be questioned, never mind disagreed with.

:headbang:
rocknation

[hollowdweller]

76. The Religious Right are just TOOLS of the Korporate Elite

They've been voting for the GOP for 20 years and TV is filthier than ever and abortion is still legal. Meanwhile they have lost their healthcare and pensions and their 30 year old kids are living with them and they haven't figured out they are getting PLAYED!

[Kenergy]

78. Bush is a liar. n/t

[lwcon]

79. What percentage of churchgoers...

... really practice what Jesus preached? I'm not so sure that Bush is remarkably less pious than most.

And I am quite sure he is sincere in crediting Christianity for helping him through his substance abuse problems (though, given his erratic behavior, I wouldn't rule out that those problems aren't strictly behind him).

Don't get me wrong -- I think he's a stunningly corrupt and incompetent figure, who should go down as one of the handful of worst leaders in world history.

But perhaps one of the reasons he gets away with it is that our society is too quick to grant credit to someone for merely being "religious."

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[saltpoint]

80. I don't think Bush is very religious either.

I'm not even sure he's a sentient being at this point.