Rant: When did DU become a recruitment site for the Democratic

[blondeatlast]

Party?

I've seen enough posts in the past few days that we're supposed to play nice and friendly for those wavering on all ends of the Left to Moderate spectrum that I'm beginning to wonder.

Last I checked, DU was about venting our frustrations with the party that stole the nation from us through fraud, chicanery, and the goddamn crooked legislative and justice system.

Um, that isn't the Democrats, gang...

It's certainly grown and evolved from there (to my enthusiastic support), but dammit, I refuse to coddle those whose sensibilities might be offended on any ray of the L to M spectrum just because they "might" by their own admission be coming over to the Light Side.

In many ways, it was them who got us into this mess in the first place, but that's another rant altogether.

Do we need a disclaimer in the Rules that says "we don't fight nicely sometimes? We don't suffer fools gladly? We don't accept tired and long ago debunked ot RATIONALLY explained RW talking points from the TAX-EXEMPT Heritage Foundation?"

I can accept that even on this side of the political fence, we've got lots of ideas from all directions, and whether you are a far-LW or a moderate, I value your intelligent ideas asnd debate even if I'm diametrically opposed to them.

But dammit, don't expect me to deal "pleasantly" with anyone who thinks this site should change to meet their wishes or expectations--and I'm powerless to change it anyway.

And now, whew. I feel better. Thanks.

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. K and R and...

Dead on, as usual.

[Horse with no Name]

2. .....

:thumbsup:

[ratzworth]

3. Skip nice and friendly....

Shoot for decent, shoot for everything you think the Republicans AREN'T.

[LittleClarkie]

4. You're venting about your frustrations

They're venting about theirs. They are not secret operatives for the DNC.

They merely disagree with you.

Hence the discussion part of the discussion board. Whatchagonna do.

So go and disagree.

[blondeatlast]

11. I never said they were.

This isn't directed at any particular group or political mindbent, just those who think that DU ought to play nice or change it's corporate personality because some are waivering.

[ratzworth]

12. Thank you!

YOU sound more than reasonable! (And I LOVE that pastel of Kerry--who did it?)

[LittleClarkie]

26. Elizabeth Payton

Here's a link on her

http://www.postmedia.net/01/peyton.htm

It's called "John Kerry, 1971"

[JuniperLea]

18. Spot on! n/t

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleClarkie]

9. They force people over the internet?

How weak does a person have to be for someone else to be able to "force" them to do anything over the internet.

It's called a disagreement. Part and parcel of discussion. So go and discuss already.

[blondeatlast]

13. As I said, there's enough of this crap going on from both sides

to push me to this rant.

[MelliMel]

6. Back when I lurked I saw a thread

that said somewhere on it that very close to election day, Skinner does not allow posts urging people to vote for non-Democratic Party candidates.

[Book Lover]

15. Welcome to DU, MelliMel!

:hi: (or maybe better, nice to finally read you!)

I think the root of the tension is that there is no good general progressive "incubator" website like DU, so DU bears the whole burden of the liberal/progressive discussion. That discussion should include voting for non-Democratic Party candidates, but it cannot here, as that is against the rules (which, by the way, I have no problem with; this isn't my home and I don't set the rules). My take on it? My father was born and raised in fascist Italy; I have heard enough stories about Party Loyalty to make me fear the idea whether for the liberal or conservative cause.

[Breeze54]

52. There is one that is a spin off from...

The Randi Rhodes Messageboard.

It was founded BY progressives, democrats, reformed-republicans, some libertarians, etc.
It's small but they have radio shows and a lot of discussions!
It's a nice place to go, to get a 'little more personal' about politics.
You can let your hair down and it's a free speech zone! No censorship!
http://unfilterednewsnetwork.com/

All are welcome!!!

:)

[Oversea Visitor]

45. I agree

Less TROLLS better Usually TROLL SEASON then.

Skinner smart to do that, Me be around come TROLL seasoon in Sept Oct Nov.
Me better shot than dick.

[blm]

7. The art of the fight - heh. I would LOVE a bylaw that any claim must be

accompanied by an irrefutable fact. ;)))))

Glad you feel better.

[begley]

28. That's hard

because the progression often goes like this: You make a claim. They want 'evidence'. You supply a link. Then they invariably ridicule the source, call it RW, or if it is from an acceptable source, then they alter the argument into something you didn't claim to begin with. Rarely do you get someone to say, "Oh. You supplied the evidence. I was wrong to criticize you. I take it back."

[sendero]

46. Even more likely..

... they offer a link that joe blow said this and said that and THAT is supposed to mean JACK SHIT.

Actions speak louder than words, Bush talks a good game but look where he's led us. Talk is cheap. I don't accept talk as real currency from Dems or Reps.

[blm]

78. I don't mind tough, at all, as long as it includes being fair and honest.

Sometimes sources ARE rightwing and people post them innocently. It happened alot during the primaries when the GOPs set up sites that appeared to be lefty sites. They've used the tactic of infiltrating left groups for decades, they just adjusted it to fit the influence of the internet.

[Renew Deal]

8. Rule #2 of the DU Rules

Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

Some people here can't accept that in the end, we're supposed to work together against the pukes.

[demosincebirth]

20. Amen to that, my friend.

[ratzworth]

21. Ahem...

"Some people here can't accept that in the end, we're supposed to work together against the pukes."


Some of us newbies here are so busy fighting off those of you playing 'gotcha' with US, to relieve your political frustrations, that WE can't even BEGIN to address the 'pukes'--THAT'S my point--and it's all so unnecessary.

[Renew Deal]

24. After 14 posts

How ridiculed can you possibly feel? There is a problem here of people being suspicious of those with a low post count. I don't think I was one of those people.

Also, I mean it on a greater scale. I don't mean on DU. I mean in electoral politics.

[ratzworth]

27. I've lurked here since last summer.

And I've had friends who have joined--and been banned over something ridiculous. I've seen PLENTY.

And I did not mention any specific poster by name; many people here have been prefectly pleasant--even with those who disagree. An equal number has not. Those of us that disagree with someone--no matter the post count--are NOT the enemy.

[Renew Deal]

29. I agree

I had the problem too. I was called a freeper when I was under 100 posts. I am over 19,000 and it still happens. It's an easy way to get out of an argument that you can't support. I hate it when it's done to low post count people because it scares them off.

[ratzworth]

33. Yes, it does scare off folks.

I always wonder where they go--and who they end up voting for, sending their money to, devoting their time campaigning for....

[Vickers]

35. People that run off and vote repuke because they got banned HERE?

:rofl:

FUCK 'EM!

The time is coming where people better have a goddam cast iron stomach, otherwise you can shitcan this whole USA thing.

The fighting has not even begun!

[The Magistrate]

39. What Is Your Best Guess On The Matter, Mr. Ratzworth?

[Douglas Carpenter]

72. well he's gone......hmmmmm

[pacalo]

37. I went through that, too, but I kept it in perspective & stayed.

It just goes with the territory until you've been here long enough to prove yourself. In this divisive country under Bush rule, one should expect nothing more.

[Renew Deal]

40. I am a lifelong Dem

A Wellstone Action grad, a local party executive committee member, a DFA member, an officer of a political club, and I still get accused of being a puke of some sort.

[pacalo]

48. To clarify, I wasn't called a freeper; it was sarcasm

aimed at nothing more than my low post count, not because of anything I said. I let it go & chalked it up to childishness.

[demosincebirth]

86. The far left wants no descent.

[blondeatlast]

57. If you haven't been accused of being a freeper, you haven't been

here long enough or been sufficiently solid in your stance!

If I had a dollar for every time--well, I'd at least have $5...

[Renew Deal]

63. Huh?

This makes no sense. Those most likely to be slandered are newbs or those with the purist leftist dogma of the day. Being sufficiently solid in ones stance is exactly what will trigger it. The person making the accusation is typically the one weak in their stance.

[blondeatlast]

68. I'm just saying it's part and parcel of the DU culture.

I've been accused several times and probably will again.

I've also been accused of hurting the Party by being too far left because I wasn't sufficiently supportive of the poster's pet issue.

Perhaps I'm too flip with my language, but we are absolutely making the same point here.

Let me rephrase: If one is even once steadfast in taking an even slightly unpopular stance, one will no doubt be accused of being a Freeper at some point in one's DU career.

Forgive me the use of the second person, which may have caused the confusion.

.

[LittleClarkie]

60. That's somewhere in the rules too

Don't pick on the newbies. I usually try to alert when it happens. I remember getting attacked too.

[saltpoint]

30. Ding. Ding. Ding. You got it.

Let's set the Republican cat butcherers, cement-brains, and oil puppets in our sites and work together to get them out of office.

[yurbud]

74. problem is those saying to stick together are DLCers who desert

progressives who actually stand up for our values.

Get those chamber of commerce ass weasels to stand up for us in Congress, and we'll shut up.

Until then, I reserve the right to goof on the two Joes, hairplug and buttplug.

[wicket]

76. Thank-you!

:kick:

[The Magistrate]

10. Be That As It May, Ma'am

Discussions are to be conducted civilly, without personal attacks, accusations an opponent is really a conservative, or worse.

Criticism of Democratic Party figures that cannot meet the standard of constructive criticism is not permitted.

The site cannot be used for partisan activity against a Democrat in any election, to the benefit of a candidate from any party other than the Democratic Party.

[sce56]

14. In the summer of 04

I made a post in where I compared the decider with Kerry and said what was the difference they were both members of the same secret society I got banned from posting until I promised not to talk badly about Kerry I stayed off of here until after the theft of Nov. 04 I had to vent and said I would obey the rules! Well everyday now more and more people speak out against the status quo I still feel we need to hold everybody's feet to the fire and demand that our rights be returned, even if that means yelling at Lieberman or Hillary they all need to listen to We The People! See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2590531

[Renew Deal]

17. No one says you can't yell at Lieberman or Hillary.

The divide seems to be whether we are better off with them or a republican. We are better off with them than a puke because it gives us the power to do the things we all want to do.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[demosincebirth]

16. I alway said that you go too far to the left and guess what?

you meet the far right.

[Broken_Hero]

19. good post/saying, and agreed, n/t

[JuniperLea]

23. ARGH!

Yes, extremes in either direction can be brutal methinks.

[Patiod]

41. Once when I was a kid, my brother described it as a circle

He said that it wasn't a left/right continuum, but a circle, and Fascism and Totalitarianism/Communism were next to each other on the circle. I'm sure he got it from a poli sci prof, but I was impressed anyway.

[demosincebirth]

44. You are right.

Nazis/Fascist and Totalitarian/Communism have more things in common than not.

[WildEyedLiberal]

56. I've thought that many times

The far left and the far right reach around and meet each other in wackoville.

I say we should put them all on a desert island, give them guns, and let them have at each other.

[WildEyedLiberal]

55. Exactly.

Many posters are so extreme they are out of touch with reality. They ignore the most basic facts if said facts don't fit their predetermined agenda. Tell me how that's any better than the denizens of freeperland?

[demosincebirth]

69. The far left and far right ...they have many things in common and

think they are complete opposites. Could it be denial?

[WildEyedLiberal]

71. It isn't just a river in Egypt.

As I said upthread, I think we should put all extremists on a desert island, give them guns, and tell them to go for it. All extremists really know how to do is destroy, anyway.

[blondeatlast]

22. IT'S NOT ABOUT YOUR CANDIDATE OR MY (nonexistent) ONE.

It's not about the Greens or the DLC.

This is one of the points I'm trying to make. There's room for respectful disagreement as long as our end game is the same--get the crooked, lying, cheating, murdering bastards out of office!

[Renew Deal]

25. Your post makes me think that our end game is not the same.

You show a disrespect for "moderate" and conservative Democrats. So are you OK with Ben Nelson after the primaries? Are you OK with Casey in PA?

[blondeatlast]

58. I do? An awful lot of DUers think I AM a centrist.

I've been accused of the "F" thing enough times that I could buy a meal if I had a buck for each time.

[Breeze54]

53. I'm all for that!!!

and I'm working on it!! ;)

[ratzworth]

31. I think I see the genesis of this problem.

"In many ways, it was them who got us into this mess in the first place, but that's another rant altogether."



So anyone who was not a Democrat from the day they were born is The Evil One... I've been following politics since Eisenhower; you need to take a long-term view of things.

[pacalo]

32. Thank you!

I remember too well how difficult it was to find an oasis to vent about what should have been obvious to everyone. And I remember too well how difficult it was to find articles based on reality, usually found in the UK (we can thank Blair's complicity for that).

We shouldn't have to indulge the Johnnies-come-lately who apparently are still sitting on the fence, or they wouldn't take offense. We, who have researched out of a paper bag on a daily basis, have earned the right to rant. We've felt like hostages from the moment we were pushed into this Twilight Zone.

[Renew Deal]

34. I get your point.

When does the ranting end and the expansion of our movement and/or ideology begin?

[i miss america]

36. On January 3rd, 2007 when the 110th Congress is sworn in

[Renew Deal]

38. How do you get our people elected

without an expansion and possibly a coagulation? We have to bind together and then expand. That's priority #1 if you want January 3, 2007 to be a happy day.

[pacalo]

43. Not sure I understand what you mean by "expansion & coagulation"

[Joe Chi Minh]

84. By replacing the machines with pen and paper.

[blondeatlast]

61. Beautifully expressed and what I WISH I'd said.

I was a latecomer to DU--somewhere in 2003, IIRC, but damn was it a godsend.

I'd carried that resentment around all that time and thought I was effing ALONE in it.

Imagine my surprise to find ~16000 some people as resentful, pissed off, and inspired as I was.

I NEED THIS PLACE on so many levels and I'm more than a bit defensive about it!

[pacalo]

82. There's at least 60% of us across the country.

And it's not just Americans who are outraged. Every country Bush visits has massive protests, which serves as proof that our outrage isn't coming from partisan politics or a witch hunt, but from common sense.

[Oversea Visitor]

42. Aaaaah

Me dont understand statements?

DU is like a home for the lost and weary
If they see the light and they need healing and understanding of how they were mislead and they feel they need a place to repair themself. DU is such a place

The next natural step is join DU.

Do you have to be Democrats to join DU? NO
I am not Democrat not Republicain Not even AMerican
I am just one of the people in this world who worry about the future who worry about goverments
who worry about what a bad leader can do to people.

Why shouldn't it be?
Where they go? Who they join to help undo wrong. Who best can undo harm done to this one great country? In US only 2 party. Do not shut the door. Cause there is only one door left.

Rant: Why must American politicalise everything? Politic above country :cry: Politic above family :cry: Politic above being brother or sister :cry: Politic above being right or wrong :cry:
Politic above the teaching of God :cry: Politic above being a good American
Politic POLITIC POLITIC........ POLITICIAN WINS everyone else just pawn

How did Robbers enter Republician Party House and took over?
Can Robbers do same to the Democratic Party?

[kymar57]

47. was it W Rodgers?

with apologies to Will.paraphrasing:I don't belong to a political party. I'm a Democrat
:toast: :toast:

[Captain Hilts]

54. W Rogers: "I don't belong to any organized political party....

I'm a Democrat."

[ourbluenation]

49. For what it's worth...here you go "About Us"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/about.html

Democratic Underground (DU) was founded on Inauguration Day, January 20, 2001, to protest the illegitimate presidency of George W. Bush and to provide a resource for the exchange and dissemination of liberal and progressive ideas. Since then, DU has become one of the premier left-wing websites on the Internet, publishing original content six days a week, and hosting one of the Web's most active left-wing discussion boards.

We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals. While the vast majority of our visitors are Democrats, this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, nor do we claim to speak for the party as a whole.

snip

[blondeatlast]

59. I'm well aware of that and apparently, in my frustration didn't make

myself clear enough.

*I* welcome Democrats of all stripes and I'm sick to death of DUers automatically assuming the DLC types are against us or don't belong. Same goes for the Greens and anarchists, for that matter.

I figure if you feel the country's going to hell in a handbasket, this is probably the place for you as long as you think it'll help you.

But I'm also sick of being expected to be nice because I might offend someone approaching voting D.

I've been told several times in recent weeks that I should do that--and I simply don't see that that is what DU is about.

I freely admit I've been wrong before and could well be again.

Educate me, please.

[Joe Chi Minh]

83. I don't welcome Democrats of all stripes - and I'm 3000 miles

away. Lieberman may be a pragmatic choice of candidate, but I think his constituents can do better.

And there are one or two others. And I mean just among the politicos. I remember one shocker in particular at the time of the Democratic Convention. And who knows how many claiming to be Democrats here really are, and aren't operatives. They certainly have plenty posting to DU - with high post counts, too, though it's an observable fact that most do have a low number of posts to their account. As the guy who was mercilessly taking the rise out of a hate radio geek - I think Savage - replied to the latter, when he said the caller didn't know anything about him, "I hear what you say on here!"

[The Backlash Cometh]

50. Venting. I do venting good.

[MH1]

62. Unfortunately,

many tired and long-debunked RW talking points are oft repeated here, and seem to be accepted by many. Just look at any pro-Kerry thread (and many pro-Hillary, pro-Edwards, pro-Feingold, pro-<insert Dem name here> threads).

[Renew Deal]

64. Why the pro- threads?

Because the bashers show up?

[MH1]

66. Yep.

Well, also the negative threads. Sometimes the op is one big RW talking point. And some of them get on the Greatest page. Sometimes with 20 or more recommendations.

Sigh.

I only mentioned the "pro" threads because that seems even more ridiculous to me. Often a wholly unrelated RW talking point is thrown in just to disrupt the thread and tear down the person who is subject of the positive thread.

[LittleClarkie]

70. Non sequitors

A thread on a Clark speech will get "He's a Republican in disguise" comment. Alrighty, but what about the speech?

A thread on a Kerry speech will get "I don't want him in 2008" or "He voted for the war" comments. Alrighty, but what about the speech?

The non sequitors annoy me.

[blondeatlast]

65. Precisely--and it was one of those damn RW tp's that set me off.

While the poster replied to me, he/she did NOT address my request for verifiable information as to the long-ago debunked on DU talking point.

[madfloridian]

67. Forum rules make it clear. More detailed rules.

"Democratic Candidates and the Democratic Party

Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic Party candidate.

Do not post broad-brush smears against Democrats or the Democratic Party.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

[saltpoint]

73. Teased about his miserable spelling, Andrew Jackson snapped,

"It's a damned poor mind that can't think of at least two ways to spell a word!"

For our purposes here, it's a damned poor mind that can't think of something affirming to say about candidates other than one's particular favorites.

Who could make the case that any of our Democrats' stewardship of the national interest would not be vastly superior to the manipulative thievery of any Republican ticket in living memory, not to mention the horrendous GOP tickets yet to come?

"In the prison of his days
Teach the free man how to praise"

--was Auden's eulogy for Yeats.

We could just borrow it here and be the better for its application.

[NJmaverick]

75. LOSER TALK!

<<Last I checked, DU was about venting our frustrations with the party that stole the nation from us through fraud, chicanery, and the goddamn crooked legislative and justice system.>>

This country doesn't need more whiners and cry babies. We need DOERS! We need people that will roll up their sleeves and right that which is wrong. We need people that are willing to DO what it takes to make things right! PLEASE enough whining, crying, venting or whatever you want to call it. DU and every good institution should be dedicated to saving this Country from the horrors inflicted on it by George Bush and his republican party.

[blondeatlast]

77. Apparently "...thinks this site should CHANGE to meet..."

was invisible to all except the first few who replied.

It's right there in the conclusion, but apparently many didn't get that far. Sigh.

Direct quote from the conclusion--and the whole reason for the rant:
But dammit, don't expect me to deal "pleasantly" with anyone who thinks this site should change to meet their wishes or expectations--and I'm powerless to change it anyway.

[Neil Lisst]

79. DEMOCRATic Underground, yes?

If this site were not committed to Democratic candidates, I certainly would not support it or be here. I'm not here to help GREENS regroup.

[Joe Chi Minh]

85. Very pungently and humorously expressed!

[demosincebirth]

87. Amen to that!

[meganmonkey]

80. About 2 months before the 2004 presidential election

it was all about recruiting.

Boy, people were welcoming us independents in then. Left and right (literally), we were welcomed with open arms.

But now, unless you are a card-carrying Dem Party loyalist you can't even hardly criticize individual Dems.

I have been nothing but honest about who I am and what I believe, and despite what I do on my own time I have never and will never try to promote non-Democratic candidates on DU. Until about 6 months ago almost no one criticized me as an independent, or if they did others would jump to my defense. That is not the way it is anymore.

The climate here has changed. I am afraid to speak my mind now (this post is the closest I have gotten in quite a while) because I have seen, one after the other, wonderful activists getting tombstoned from this place for crossing some seemingly arbitrary line. I don't want that to happen to me. I don't want to lose the ability to communicate and network with some wonderful people who I have met through this site.

The more this place allows people who require constant lockstep, even in theoretical discussion, to bully and stiflethe independents, the more we will fall silent here.

If it weren't for DU, I wouldn't have voted for Kerry last year. Do you guys get it? I wouldn't have voted for him. YOU ALL changed my mind. Kerry didn't, YOU did. The grassroots activists, with all their faith and optimism. I know personally a few dozen other current and former DUers who would say the same. Calling us names (not that this OP is doing so - but you all know it happens) and scapegoating us when everyone knows 80% of the Dems in DC do NOT represent the people of this country, rather they represent the corporations who pay for their campaigns, is NOT going to help the people of this country.

I am saying this from my heart, in total honesty. The Dems in Washington are pushing people away from them almost as fast as the Repubs are. I know this, because I am one of the 30% of independents who have never felt represented by the federal gov't. And I spend a lot of time working with the 50% of Americans who almost never bother to vote because there is no one to represent them. They lost their jobs because of Clinton's NAFTA or whatever - they don't believe in either party, because neither party represents them.

This may sound like stupid psychoanalysis from a completely unqualified person, but I think there are so many people here who are frustrated with the Dems and they are taking out on the independents because we remind you that there IS a difference between party loyalty and real principles. And I am sorry to say it like that, but that is how it seems to me.

I wish you all peace and good luck.

I am not going anywhere unless you all hit alert and the admin decides I crossed the line.

:patriot:

edit for spelling and some comma placement issues

[AtomicKitten]

81. I like indies - the nonhostile ones.

Funny, but I think some indies take out their frustration on Democrats; you see it the other way around. I suspect we are both right.

I have learned a lot from independents at DU, the generous, respectful ones, although I have been used as fodder on * cough * another website as a source of scorn; you see, we all have strong feelings and something to say. It is that intolerant attitude that makes any sort of peaceful, productive interaction impossible.

People are tombstoned for not following the rules, not for speaking their mind.

On edit: The best interactions IMO are those with people you think you don't agree with; it has been my experience that indies and Dems really do have much in common and their differences lie largely really in strategy, not ideology.

Peace.

[robcon]

88. I disagree

meganmonkey wrote "But now, unless you are a card-carrying Dem Party loyalist you can't even hardly criticize individual Dems."

That's a ridiculous exaggeration, meganmonkey, and doesn't reflect well on your knowledge of DU. Democrats are ripped apart on this board (among the most ripped... Reid, Lieberman, Pelosi, etc.) every day on almost every other thread.

meganmonkey wrote: "I am afraid to speak my mind now (this post is the closest I have gotten in quite a while) "

Again a ridiculous, self-pitying post, meganmonkey. Whaddaya afraid of? Afraid that someone will disagree with you?

[blondeatlast]

89. I'm the OP, and I'd like to apologize for my statements.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, or I could have softened my rhetoric--doesn't matter now.

My thoughts have been wildly misinterpreted, but they are MY thoughts, and I take responsibility for them, and consider it my fault for not making my point clearer.

Anyway, I really do regret posting this.

I'm out of it and have asked for a lock, but that's the Mods call and I respect their decision either way.

If you've taken the time to read this, thanks.

[Geek_Girl]

90. I kind of understand how you feel

I've noticed a slight shift to the middle on this message board over the past year and I kind of miss the hard core left ambiance of DU. But I honestly don't think it has to do with trolls or infiltrators. People out there with moderate to conservative views are wondering what the hell is going on and some are coming here for answers and to discuss politics. Which is wonderful if you really think about it.

I'm not saying we have to be ambassadors for the democratic party or progressive ideals. But we should try and help inform people that may not have the same information we have. Most people are still relying on MSM info for the news.

[ray of light]

91. ummm...well, this is DEMOCRATIC underground

it's not Dean's DFA or it's not Greens for America or anything like it.

[proud patriot]

92. I'm locking this

at the original poster's request who wished me to
express their "most heartfelt apology"

proud patriot Moderator
Democratic Underground