HELP SPREAD THE WORD!: May Day.....Print out posters here....

[Flabbergasted]

http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/04/1816988.php

About Us:
"Mayday in the Bay" is an informal grouping of organizers and activists that has come together in the San Francisco Bay Area. We have joined forces to promote and support the callout for a General Strike on May 1st in defense of immigrant rights which was issued out of Los Angeles by the "March 25th Coalition against HR4437".

The points of unity for this action are: No Work, No School, No Sales, and No Buying, and also to have rallies around local symbols of economic trade (stock exchanges, anti-immigrant corporations, etc.). "Mayday in the Bay" fully endorses the points of unity, and has organized a local response to this callout in keeping with the organizing principles and political analysis detailed in the People's Global Action (PGA) Hallmarks.

It is our intention to publicize and maximize participation in the general strike in a way that enhances the economic consequences of the strike and makes it as visible as possible. To this end, we have decided to organize a series of convergences throughout the day, from which spontaneous CACEROLAZO** marches can occur. For specifics, please see the callout.

[Name removed]

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[Flabbergasted]

2. Job number 1 Protest the Wars and Bush Adm. Laws to follow: Try checks

and balances on corporate rule of government. The Constitution is a great place to start...

[Name removed]

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[Flabbergasted]

9. I always think about us white people saying we bust our ass. LOL...

Most of the immigrants I know are amazingly hard workers. Work circles around a white guy...

Have you been so desperate for a few bucks so you could buy some bread that you risked your life on a 40 hour walk through the desert?

[Name removed]

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[Flabbergasted]

16. Yeah I work 70 plus a week....Its not a bullshit statement in the....That

Mexican will do your job in 30 hours. You ever staged a protest? You've never needed to have you? These people need to.

[Name removed]

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[Flabbergasted]

23. Gosh man I feel like your being a little bit "non-transparent"

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[Flabbergasted]

28. Country of Origin. Country requiring docs.

[Name removed]

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[Flabbergasted]

33. I misread your statement before......

Back to reply 20


I'm not being racist or prejudiced. It's as simply true as is Mexicans are much more poor than Americans.

[Name removed]

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[Flabbergasted]

36. I'm not making a direct statement on you personally.....I am making a

generalization on work ethics.

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[Flabbergasted]

41. Alright I apologize....

[Name removed]

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[Flabbergasted]

48. Likewise....God Bless

[lumberjack_jeff]

82. An illegal immigrant hasn't the right to *anything* in this country.

It's a simple issue, really. Do illegal immigrants have a right to jobs? Given the chronic underemployment and wage stagnation in this country, I say no.

The fact that illegals feel safe to organize a mass protest says something about their perception of the country's willingness/ability to execute the law.

Given the choice between working Americans and illegals, I'm perplexed at why it seems so controversial - especially for the party of the working person.

[Ms. Clio]

86. People can just keep ignoring this inconvenient fact

but I will just keep posting it anyway.

It is not just those "illegals" organizing this protest. It is also their families, friends, and other supporters.

You know, AMERICAN CITIZENS. So now ask yourself, why? What would be the impact of the proposed Sensenbrenner immigration law on them? I realize that might require imagination and empathy, but go ahead, try it.

And do you believe THEY have rights, including the right to organize and protest?

[lumberjack_jeff]

89. Of course. But those who took the pains to come here legally...

... have the greatest incentive to object to those who have taken the shortcut.

I find it doubtful that the protest is primarily attended by legal immigrants or citizens. The cynic in me wonders how many companies that employ illegals gave their illicit employees the day off to attend the protest - they have the most to gain from the status quo.

[Flabbergasted]

87. Underemployment is a natural byproduct of capitalism not immigration

In addition why is McDonalds planning to cut hours? It's not because they are hiring illegal Immigrants!

[lumberjack_jeff]

90. The wage suppression effect of illegal immigration is well documented. n/t

[Flabbergasted]

93. I'd never argue against that!

[shamrock]

53. I am greatly offended by that

statement. It implies that Americans are lazy, and I've seen it posted out-right on other posts. Coming from a family of loggers I don't consider getting up at 'hoot owl' and setting chokers all day (that's climbing up and down hill and attaching cables to the logs) work that ANYONE would work circles around. My dad did that to support his 9 kids. It's extremely dangerous, my 18-yr. old cousin died doing that work to support his wife and baby. I keep hearing how lazy Americans are usually in comparison to illegal Mexican workers.
Are the mine-workers who risk their lives to support their families lazy? How about the fishermen who go out on the boats up in Alaska? My family has done that too. I raised my four kids on a mill-workers wages(lots of doubles just to make it) and I guarantee you we didn't eat steak and lobster. And there are many others who work even harder than this....Americans I mean. It burns me up, and I guarantee you it doesn't help their cause.

[Flabbergasted]

55. I've re-thought it...Cold War Vet changed my mind.....I was

over-generalizing. However I think that alot of Americans are pretty damn lazy. There are many many exceptions. Forgive me...

[shamrock]

56. accepted

And yes, some are lazy, wherever you go in the world. I wasn't even going to post that, but I've just read that same statement too many times on other threads, and then I think of all the people I know who do dirty, back-breaking and dangerous work for hardly enough to make it on and it makes me angry. We're not all city-slickers working in an office for a good salary.

[Flabbergasted]

57. To put things in perspective in another sense.....My wife is German....

She says that Americans work much harder than Germans.....Try telling that to our Deutsch friends?

[shamrock]

58. People all over

the world work hard, including here. Some, due to either good fortune, or hard work and sacrifice escape that and have an easier life. I don't think we should begrudge them that, especially if they've earned it. For most of us though, sending our kids to college is not an option we can even consider.

[Flabbergasted]

60. Thanks for the wisdom.....Good Night.... Meine Freu is a-wating

[Flabbergasted]

59. self delete. Repeat

[Berserker]

70. Most of the Legal Americans I know are amazingly hard workers.

And yes I have been so desperate for a few bucks I would walk 40 miles for a job so I could feed my family. Work circles around a white guy my ass. I wish you were on my job site so I could show you what a WHITE man can and will do to make a living. Whinners like this can kiss my ass.

[Flabbergasted]

81. See Post 55.....Thanks fo your hard work...I'm not a whiner

[daveskilt]

13. I am an immigrant - came legally

I slept on friends couches and washed dishes for 5 bucks an hour for years (plus the food they threw out at night) and put myself through college.

not to sound all "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" but every time i hear someone yelling about what they think they should be given (amnesty) it pisses me off. i understand the postion most folks are in who are illegal and that they are just trying to feed their family - but it is possible to do legally. People who don't want to follow our laws (i say our - I am a US citizen now as of 18 months ago) don't have to, but they shouldn't get to live here if they don't obey the law.

[Name removed]

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[Flabbergasted]

18. Of course these people don't have a rat shit chance in hell of legal

immigration.

[daveskilt]

21. why not? I did it. I was 17 and had nothing

i showed up here with 2 changes of clothes and a legal visa in 1992.

[Flabbergasted]

24. From Where?

[Ms. Clio]

38. Yes, from where?

[Saturday]

3. You forgot the word "illegal" in front of immigrant. n/t

[Flabbergasted]

5. ITS NOT ABOUT """ILLEGAL""" IMMINGRATION.

You are simply providing a classification for what is essentially people wanting to feed their family. Remember these people are so deseperate they will, and do, die in the desert to get here.

[Name removed]

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[Flabbergasted]

10. Yeah, and my opinion is you are looking at the surface of a very basic

human need to care for your family. That's important to you as well? I think you wrote that? And we quibble about our luxurious life style. That's really selfish...

[Name removed]

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[Flabbergasted]

22. I sympathize with that but we are still living off the poverty of 3rd

world countries. Extreme wealth by a few creates extreme poverty in the many. The US has the best standard of living in the world and we expect it is our birthright.

Jesus taught me to give rather than protect my assets.

[Name removed]

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[Flabbergasted]

29. LOL No I think you can figure that one out yourself....

[Name removed]

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[betterdeadthanred]

61. Excellent idea

I'm saving all my shopping for May 1. I'll spend everything I can that day.

I work in healthcare and I have seen how illegal immigrants have cost literally millions of dollars in healthcare costs that go unpaid. I pay higher and higher property taxes because their children are over crowding the local schools. To see them not going to school (that MY tax dollars are paying for) and out protesting, waving THEIR flag was the last straw for me.

They should be marching by the thousands back across the border and protesting THEIR own government for change, not mine.

[Flabbergasted]

62. Perhaps they should be protesting the corporations instead.....OMG

those are our corporations.....SHOCK...

[betterdeadthanred]

63. Nice deflect

They have THEIR OWN country, they should be protesting for it, not coming here demanding MINE make changes for THEM.

[Ms. Clio]

66. Get a clue, McCarthy

Many many of the protesters are AMERICAN CITIZENS.

[Flabbergasted]

78. Not a Deflect....Its shouldn't be surprising to you that the corps that

run our government also run Mexico...

[Ms. Clio]

65. That's some messed-up shit right there

Guess you don't know that the Social Security is currently holding $7 billion in funds withheld from the paychecks of those "illegal immigrants."

Some "illegals" even pay income taxes, via Taxpayer ID Numbers.

They also pay sales taxes on everything they buy here and property taxes, in the form of rent, and sometimes, in the form of houses that they buy. I know that pisses off a certain type of jingo even more, to consider that an "illegal" might even dare to buy a house here.

Most of all, you just don't get that these are not some "alien horde" within our midst who can just all be sent away with a wave of your white and imperious hand. These people have lives and families and friends here, just like you do.

And if you even begin to whine out the words, "but it's the law...," I will chuck some photos of Abu Ghraib and the Geneva Conventions in your face. Those are the kinds of laws I give a damn about.

[betterdeadthanred]

68. Messed up indeed

The National Research Council reports that an immigrant to the United States without a high-school diploma consumes $89,000 more in government services than he pays in taxes during his lifetime.

Low-paid illegal aliens obviously pay very little taxes, but they cash in on all sorts of benefits paid by other taxpayers, such as schooling for their children, emergency health care, housing subsidies, Earned Income Tax Credit, and law enforcement. If the 20 million illegals are legalized, they will also become eligible for Medicaid, and that's a real break-the-bank prospect.

Keep your pictures of Abu Ghraib and have a great rest of the weekend.

[Ms. Clio]

71. do you have any links for that figure?

Your figures are already suspect, because there are not "20 million illegals" in this country.

I notice you skipped right over the $7 billion in SS funds. Not to mention the sales taxes and the property taxes paid in the form of rents (that also pay for school for all children -- of course, you probably don't know that in places like Dallas, Hispanic children now comprise the majority of the city's schoolchildren).

[Flabbergasted]

80. You beat me to that...LOL

[betterdeadthanred]

83. Google is our friend

Try it sometime.

http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html

[Ms. Clio]

84. Maybe you shoud be more selective when you google

And not cite rightwing sources.

Because on edit, I don't give a flying fuck what Phyllis Schlafly thinks about immigration or anything else.

[Flabbergasted]

85. You need to source the original info....

[johnnyrocket]

44. Sorry, like a few other posts here, it's about ILLEGAL immigration

...and it's about allowing people to basically cheat...cheat the system, and cheat against the legit immigrants who FOLLOW THE LAW!

There is plenty of example of folks who followed the system, and are a little peeved at the many that are cheating the system. Besides, the illegal structure is in place BY THE CORPORATIONS to allow illegal slave labor and slave wages.

Obviously we need immigration fixes, like allowing more people to come here and work here, plus there absolutely should be changes to the Mexican government, and the way they treat their workers.

[Flabbergasted]

52. You call it cheating...They call it being able to feed their kids.....

I'm on the compassionate side of things

[sandnsea]

50. They ALL get paid shit wages

Just like the workers all over the world because we turn our back when our corporations exploit them. Until we look up one day and OUR jobs are gone, then it's waaaa they stole our jobs.

This is about labor exploitation and putting an end to it. All workers deserve a fair wage and a decent standard of living, whether here with a paper or without, in Mexico, in China or anywhere else in the world. We either stop the exploitation or end up with no jobs or living in huts ourselves. Not complicated.

[nolabels]

77. It is complicated but not as complicated as what we have now

Changing the priorities from profit by exploitation and protected markets to one of efficiency, sustainability and welfare of the general population will require monumental thinking from many.

In short spending a gallon of fuel to ship a pound of rice to the other side of the globe so on can maintain the hold on the exchange of goods is pretty much stupid.

[Saturday]

12. If they want to have a better life and feed their families

why not make their own country better? If someone robs a 7-11 to feed his family we don't excuse him because it was "to feed his family". It is illegal and we punish him. The illegal actions of Mexicans is hurting US workers terribly. American workers want to feed their families also.

[daveskilt]

14. exactly right

[Flabbergasted]

30. Americans feed on Steaks and Lobsters. Mexicans feed on beans and

rice...

[Name removed]

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[Flabbergasted]

37. I don't see it that way.....

[Name removed]

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[Flabbergasted]

42. There are several parts to this issue, we have American Corporate

Dominance, we have the fact that Mexicans live in a frickin desert and several others.

Why are we surprised that people "instinctively" travel to areas where they can find food, water and shelter when there is an inadequate supply per population. You can no more stop this then keep the birds from flying south in the winter....

[QC]

46. You should speak for yourself.

Most working Americans cannot afford to gorge themselves on steak and lobster, particularly those Americans in careers where wages have dropped to half or less what they used to be, thanks to management discovering an infinite source of cheap labor.

There's an awful lot of poor folks in this country who would also like to imrpve their lives and feed their families, but the "progressives" apparently do not consider them worthy of much attention. Perhaps they are not exotic enough.

[Flabbergasted]

51. When Americans reach comparable poverty only then will we see

work boycotts from us...Until then there really is not much comparison

[QC]

64. There are plenty of poor people in this country.

Even in Portland. Look around and you will see them.

[sandnsea]

54. Oh please, living wage???

Who is standing up for living wages all over this country?? It's bullshit to say progressives aren't standing up for the poor in this country. It's too bad the poor don't understand that Mexican workers aren't their problem, the people who pay slave wages are the problem.

[QC]

67. But until there are some big legal changes in this country,

these two groups of workers really are being pitted against one another. Wages really have been driven down in low-skill and even many skilled trades because of management availing itself of illegal labor. These are the facts on the ground, and they are very significant for people in jobs that have been affected.

My point is simply that practically everyone here likes to stick up for the immigrant workers, which is fine, but there is little interest in the other exploited workers.

In this case, I think the poor people know the score much better than petit-bourgeois dilletantes who think that everyone in the country is gobbling up steak and lobster.

[sandnsea]

69. Stop helping

Stand beside them and push for the big legal changes. Explain to the skilled trades that we either all stand up together, or all go down together. That's what I'd like to see on Monday. Their divisive tactics aren't going to work. Living wage for all.

And don't buy into the "petit-bourgeois dilletantes" stuff either. An old friend used to tell me that life was just wiping the shit out of your eyes so you could keep focused on where you're going. That steak and lobster stuff was just a little misguided shit, that's all. Knock it to the side, and look at the deeper purpose that unites us all.

[QC]

72. Thanks! That's a great post.

It reminds me of the times on DU when we actually discussed things calmly and intelligently, instead of posturing and yelling.

I have volunteered in migrant worker ed, where I was treated like family by the moms and dads of my students, and I come from a working family myself, so I am quite sympathetic. I share your desire for solidarity.

But I also feel for the carpenters and meatpackers and janitors and others who have been displaced, and at times I feel that I am almost alone in that. Too much of the discussion here reminds me of an aging rich-girl hippy professor of mine, who cried all over her handwoven peasant dresses when she talked about the poor folks in Nicaragua but would not stand with the graduate instructors and custodians when we tried to organize and had no problem griping about "rednecks" and "white trash" in class, blissfully unaware that many of her students--this was in Mississippi and she was from Berkeley--were themselves the first in their "redneck" and "white trash" families to make it to college.

It's middle-class cluelessness at its worst, and it's one of our main problems. Here's a fascinating website about it: http://www.classmatters.org/. We should all take a look, because the most troubling political divide on the Left is not red/blue or even black/white but middle class/working class.

[shamrock]

47. Just had dinner

rice and fried eggs. Are fried eggs better than beans?

[daveskilt]

4. I will be firing anyone who works for me and doesnt show up

I run a nursing home. If my patients are not cared for they die. anyone who wants a day off can request one - skipping out and abandoning patients is not what the organisers of the protest had in mind.

[Flabbergasted]

7. That's why most of these people are telling there are employers that they

will not be at work....I own a cafe....

[daveskilt]

19. no offense but that isnt the same thing

your customers might not get their latte, mine would die. I have 185 employees hardly any are actually immigrants (I am an immigrant) most are hispanic and many of the hispanic employees i have are pissing and moaning about how the man is getting them down and think they can walk out. It is an excuse for shirking responsibility not a protest for them.

thankfully most of my hispanic nurses are actually offended at the idea they would take the day off when they know their patients need them. They get more angry than anyone about this protest and think the people involved are lazy. I think many of the people involved have good intentions but i really don't think this is a well thought through protest - the backlash and consequences are not black and white.

[Flabbergasted]

26. I was telling you I also have power to hire/fire....

Not that our businesses in comparable in function.

[DisgustedTX]

43. Correct.

Rare sanity on display.

[ekelly]

91. TELLING your employer

you will take the day off and REQUESTING a day off are two different things.

[Flabbergasted]

92. That's why I worded the way I did....Their wouldn't be too many boycotters

if they all ASKED for days off would there?

[sandnsea]

49. Which is completely different

therefore completely unnecessary to post. I'm sure your workers wouldn't abandon patients or they wouldn't be doing the work in the first place.

[daveskilt]

73. most of my people will show up - other hospitals are in deep trouble

I know of 4 locally that are expecting most of their staff to walk out. It is nice to think of all nurses and service workers in hospitals as florence nightingale but unfortunately their are some lazy ones and some bad ones.

[sandnsea]

74. There's been nurses strikes before

Funny I don't remember anybody calling registered nurses who struck lazy or bad.

[bluedog]

76. bet they were striking for better ages..and were they "illegals"?

[daveskilt]

79. my patients come first - I have no respect for anyone abandoning patients

In the strikes we had notice of how many and when. Also striking nurses made sure all neccessary service was covered. Abandoning patients is more than cause for firing, it is cause for a loss of nursing licence.

[lynne]

75. How many High School seniors will not graduate if they participate?

My school board sent a letter last month stating that walk outs off of school property are not allowed and any student doing such or having an unexcused absence will not be allowed back into school until such time as they come in with a parent and meet with the principal. The parent/principal meetings are only held at certain times of the day - either very early morning or late afternoon - to avoid conflicts with regular school day activities.

Graduation is in 4 weeks. I have to wonder how many seniors will participate on Monday and then not be able to get back into school in time to complete graduation requirements.

[Flabbergasted]

88. I'd support them either way