Suggestion: Let's not fall into the "I'm clueless about Dems" trap here!!!

[Sparkly]

The trap is about pleading innocent ignorance: "They have NO PLAN! I never heard of any plan. WHAT plan? Where do they stand on (fill in the blank), because I have no idea!!"

The MSM does that constantly -- and you well know it's either dishonest or lazy. We have something called the Internet now (thank you for sponsoring that legislation, President Gore!). So could we just get rid of that canard, within our own DU discussions at least?

First, let's not pretend we have no idea what the "Democratic Party" itself stands for -- go to democrats.org and get a clue!! The fact that we embrace differences (largely in process, not purpose) does NOT mean there's no unity or contrast with the GOP! That is an anti-Democratic meme, and we should rid ourselves of it. (Yes, maybe we DO need slogans that fit on bumperstickers, but that is no excuse for Democrats here to plead ignorance.)

Second, let's recognize that individual Democrats are no mystery, either. Some have been more outspoken than others, more specific than others, more prolific in writing, speaking, and offering proposals than others; while others, admittedly, have not offered as many words beyond easily-accepted platitudes.

But there's no reason, certainly at DU, not to know what they're saying, or not saying; the extent of what they're addressing, or not addressing; and the field in which they're speaking, or not speaking. You can decide for yourself whether you want to play "gotcha" with the outspoken ones (going back months or years for those who care to play), or laud their candor; just as you can decide for yourself whether to respect those who remove themselves from the struggle with vague, uncontroversial words, or criticize the cowardice of their nice clean hands. But let's not pretend it's all a mystery.

It doesn't take much time to see that Democrats, in general, don't have much distance on broad issues, whether those the GOP has selected as issues (gay marriage, immigration, flag burning, church/state, etc.) or those they've made into issues by making them FUBAR (the economy, international relations, oil and everything about it). The first goal is to get ANYone with a (D) next to their name elected this year. Congressional majorites will give ANY '08 nominee a platform and a microphone.

Next year at this time, even the currently-vague '08 candidates will have come "out" with (however carefully crafted) proposals. But if you've got one eye on '08, go ahead and watch, weigh, and compare their actions in '06 -- they are easily visible.

Meanwhile, let's be honest. Let's not pretend we're as lazy as the MSM. We should be above Tweety chirpings.

Let's not pretend we have no idea what various Democrats' views are on LARGE issues, and ask each other for simple answers. ("Quick, before we go to break!")

Let's not pretend we can't use Google, or are too busy to do so.

Let's not pretend DU isn't a forum that keeps us aware of what various Democrats are doing and saying all the time.

Requests for quick, specific references, links, speeches, quotes, etc. to help us debate the other side? Fine! Questions about someone's stated positions on less-publicized issues? Fine! But "Where does X stand on Iraq?" Puleeeeeze. These are serious, complex issues, with complicated answers. NObody wants bloodshed or continued war (not even BushCo -- they just didn't know what the Hell they were doing). Calls for simplistic answers are like Chimpy's line in '04, against Kerry's statement that the issues were complicated: "There is nothing complicated about supporting our troops in combat!"

Could we get beyond all that? Please? :rant:

[smoochpooch]

1. Yeah, 06 is all that matters right now,

Without more (D)s than (R)s in Congress and the states, what real change can we really expect to occur? Things will begin to take shape for 08 on their own in the next 12 months; until then, get your local Dems, whoever they are, the money and support to position us for an 06 coup and demonstrate that Americans have had enough of "compassionate conservatism".

[leftofthedial]

2. I'm not pretending

:shrug:

[emulatorloo]

3. kick and nominating n/t

[dorktv]

4. Well so far the November Victory list serv has one book out on

specific plan and I am writing the one that has the policy details.

I do admit that I basically ripped AZ's clean elections system for public financing. The arguement we are going to use is "why does X local (big) business have a greater right to free speech then you?"