My tax credits from Bush: $156 versus my tax credits from Dean: $6577

[KaraokeKarlton]

I just sorted out my tax returns today. Thanks to Bush's tax plan I am going to get $156 more than I would be if it weren't for his reforms.

Thanks to Dean's tax plan he put in place in Vermont my state refund is going to be $6577. $1407 is from Vermont's Earned Income Credit for Head of Household working poor families. $5170 of the refund is from "Renter's Rebate". This is a credit that I'm pretty sure all Vermont Renters qualify for based on the percentage of your income you pay towards rent.

I have to tell you, that I'll take an America under Howard Dean's idea of tax relief over Bush's tax cuts ANY day!

[libview]

1. Wow, that's great.

But I have a question, how does a "Head of Household, working poor family" get $6500 withheld in state taxes in the first place?

[KaraokeKarlton]

3. None of it was withheld...it's all tax credits for being poor

$1407 is Earned Income Credit...for families with children who have low incomes.

The rest of it is from "Renters Rebate", which is designed for lower income renters, with children or not. The credits have nothing to do with withholding. If you have no tax liability the amount that would be deducted from your tax liability (what you owe) is refunded to you even if you don't have to pay any taxes in.

[dsc]

4. It is a refundable credit

which means the money was not withheld.

[libview]

25. oh, i see

[KaraokeKarlton]

2. Gratuitious kick to point out subject line edit

I want people to see that Dean's idea of tax relief is much different than Bush's or most of the other Democrats who think people who make $200,000 are "middle class" taxpayers.

[stopthegop]

5. the numbers look good..

but if I understand your situation correctly it's not 'tax relief' for you...it's a subsidy..not quite the same thing

[dsc]

7. Newsflash poor people do pay taxes

The EIC is intended to and often doesn't entirely refund SS taxes. That renter's credit would refund property taxes paid via rent.

[stopthegop]

9. I know poor people pay taxes...

but there's more going on if the Renter's Rebate portion is $5710 (assuming it's for one year)...that's quite a bit more than the taxes on my house...

[KaraokeKarlton]

11. I pay 10,200 in rent a year

My income was just over $12,000. Only $1800 from my annual earned income (before taxes) was left after my rent was paid. Almost $1500 of the remaining $1800 was withheld from all taxes (federal, state, SS and Medicare) So, I worked my kiester off for under $400 last year. I work just as hard as anyone else. To claim that this kind of tax relief is a "subsidy" is simply unfair. Hell, I probably work harder than most people who make far more than I do.

[stopthegop]

12. not unfair...just accurate...

there's nothing wrong with helping someone with the rent, but the credit came to over one half of the income...that's more than relief..but it's good it helps you hold it together

[KaraokeKarlton]

13. No, it's insulting, actually

n/t

[stopthegop]

14. not meant to be insulting...please accept my

apology if you took it that way

[KaraokeKarlton]

15. Accepted

I have to say that I really dislike the attitude that those of us who get the tax credits like the ones I described are in some way getting a "hand out". The working poor pay their dues, probably moreso than those who don't struggle to make ends meet. We're the ones that work for shit pay, in the service industry in many cases. We work hard at a lousy rate so that those who can afford to splurge have someone to wait on their asses. We bring those folks their food when they go out to eat, pump their gas, do their drycleaning, bag their groceries and wash their elderly relatives' asses in nursing homes all across the country. We do this stuff so that those who can afford to utilize those services don't have to do those things themselves. We get shit pay, usually no benefits and asshole immature managers who have to deal with arrogant, pain in the ass customers all day and take it out on us lowly pee-ons. Yeah, we get some extra credits at tax time, but so fucking what? It's not like we haven't contributed to making society more pleasant for those who bitch about their taxes supporting tax subsidies for the working poor. Maybe if they tipped 20% instead of 10% when they go out to eat or stay in a hotel more workers like me wouldn't qualify for the credits.

Okay, there's my rant and now you should have a pretty clear understanding of exactly why I was insulted by your comment. Again, your apology is accepted.

[OhioStateProgressive]

21. service people work so rich people can have fun

it is bothersome, I used to manage a resort type restaurant on a lake, and it so upset me to see happy wealthy people drinking and having a good time, while some terribly poor people earned 7 bucks an hour cooking for them...it just bothered my sense of fairness and equality

[KaraokeKarlton]

22. Exactly

That's why it bothers me when I hear someone say anything negative about the working poor getting any kind of help.

[KaraokeKarlton]

10. Yep, my SS tax and Medicare tax was more than twice my fed and state

withholding. I don't get any of that refunded.

[freestatevet]

20. You won't

get any of the "refunded," but you WILL get social security. Anyway, SS is not really a tax; it is technically insurance.

[KaraokeKarlton]

8. It's actually mostly affordable housing relief

My income last year was a little over $12,000. My rent is $850 a month. You do the math. I get no assistance whatsoever from state programs anymore, although I have in the past. If it weren't for child support, I wouldn't be able to pay my rent AND feed my kids. Dean recognized the high housing costs in Vermont and gave relief to those who suffer the most from that by paying a very high percentage of their earned income towards housing costs.

Now THAT is true Democratic policy. Calling people who make $200,000 a year "middle class" and supporting tax cuts for those individuals at the expense of crucial social programs and education, homeland security and medical care for the uninsured is not very Democratic in my opinion. :shrug:

[joshcryer]

18. So... who works harder...

The person paying the mortage/taxes on someones house via rent money, or the landlord who maybe changes an air filter every 6 months or so? Who is returning more back to society?

[KaraokeKarlton]

19. The Renters Rebate is for the elderly, disabled,singles, families and even

Vermonters with a Civil Union. You don't need to have kids to get this credit. It goes a long way for those without kids who don't get much of a break otherwise.

[lastliberalintexas]

6. But he wants to raise taxes on the middle class

Kerry told me this, so it must be true! ;-)


Thank you for reminding people here that there are taxes and credits other than the federal income tax. The repubs have always only meant income taxes when they discussed tax policy. But from the tenor of debate (even here at DU) it seems that far too many Dems have begun to agree. A repeal of a measly tax "cut" (which may in fact only be an advance) pales when you consider the benefits to be gained by using that revenue to pay for health care or payroll tax cuts.

But the spineless among our party apparently find it easier to concede the debate to the repubs. :shrug:

[MercutioATC]

16. This needs to be published in a MUCH larger forum. Connected DU'ers?

Why isn't this more widely known?

[KaraokeKarlton]

17. Because Vermonters seem to be the only ones aware of it

That would be my guess. :shrug:

I posted it to let people here know, but it hasn't gotten much attention.

[MercutioATC]

23. kick

[Straight Shooter]

24. Remember the high school taunt when poor teams play rich teams?

That's all right, that's okay
You're gonna pump our gas someday!

I think any job which is done well deserves compensation and respect for the one doing it. What's so noble about learning how to handle the family trust, especially when you've hired five accountants and three lawyers to do it?

You deserve every dollar you get, and then some. Unlike Mr. O'Reilly, I don't feel like I'm being cheated when someone who makes less money than I do receives the benefit of my tax dollars. I feel like my life is enriched.