Take away Edwards in SC and Clark would have won there.

[Quixote1818]

A lot of people don't understand why Clark did so poorly in SC and basicaly it's because it was Edward's home state (where he was born) and because he was taking all of Clark's votes. You can't tell me that if Edwards were not in the race that 75% of his votes would not have gone to the OTHER guy from the south, Wesly Clark! There were two southern states on Feb. 3rd. Oklahoma and South Carolina. Take away the home field advantage and look who won!

[arcos]

1. That was Lieberman's argument re: NH...

Since both Kerry and Dean are from neighboring states, they were expected to do well... thus, if you don't count them, he finished 3rd behind Edwards and Clark.

[leyton]

2. I don't know.

Kerry had a lot of support, and even Sharpton had more than Clark. What's to say 75% of the people who voted for Edwards voted for him because he's a southerner? They might prefer his message, his optimism, or his hair.

[jmaier]

3. It's interesting that Clark's squeaker victory in OK

is downplayed. This was a state Edwards was counting on and worked heavily. He had the revered Barry Switzer robo-calling. He was running ads in OK before Clark was in the race. He had made 10 campaign trips through OK before Thanksgiving. He raised more money in OK than any other Democratic candidate. In light of these efforts and his headstart, the fact that Clark beat him is pretty amazing and somewhat telling.

I have substantiating links, though most require registration:

and had been running there heavily for some time and this was a state he targeted to WIN:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/DailyNews/fieldedwards-16.html

"A note from campaign events pre- and post-Thanksgiving: Edwards finished up a two-day bus trip through Oklahoma, his tenth visit to the state, where his endorsement tally is at 29 out of a total of 81 Democratic state officials. "

Bush, Edwards lead in Oklahoma contributions (1/18/04)

http://www.newsok.com/cgi-bin/show_article?ID=1160956&TP=getarticle
<registration required>

Edwards back in Oklahoma for 11th time (12/8/2003)

http://www.newsok.com/cgi-bin/show_article?ID=1133612&TP=getarticle
<registration required>

http://www.newsok.com/cgi-bin/show_article?ID=1071714&TP=getarticle
John Edwards TV ads begin airing on Oklahoma stations (9/22/2003)
<registration required>

[BootinUp]

4. Never heard that before.

I guess none of the political pundits have either :shrug:

[Auntie Bush]

12. All the pundits keep saying how much time and money

Clark spent in OK and not one comment on how much Edwards spent there.
Another bummer!

[Skwmom]

25. If they know it doesn't matter.

I told someone the other day that Edwards spent over a year campaigning in NH and held over 100 townhall meetings. They were stunned. Of course the media went on and on about how much time Wes spent in the state. Plus, the Republicans are voting in our primaries in an attempt to knock off Clark. They are already renting vans to take supporters to the polls in 2004. They are ruthlessly organized and are manipulating our primary via the media, their pollsters and their followers.

[spooky3]

8. Since people seem to think geography was important in S.C.,

it follows that geography helped Clark as well in Oklahoma. He is from the neighboring state of Arkansas. While Edwards was born in SC, he spent most of his childhood and adulthood in the neighboring state of North Carolina.

The margin of victory in OK was quite slim, but not so in SC.

I believe Clark deserves a great deal of credit for his good showing in OK and elsewhere yesterday. But Edwards deserves equal credit for equally good performance.

What is the point of all this Clark vs. Edwards peripheral discussion? Bush is the problem. And if the concern is how to win more primaries, it seems both these boys are going to need to find a way to appeal to more voters than Kerry is currently doing, rather than focus on each other.

[Edwards4President]

14. Edwards focused on Oklahoma early on, but in the past few months

did not make it a priority. Yet he still beat Kerry there and came this close to beating Clark. Not a bad showing at all.

[FreeperSlayer]

5. Whatever....eom

[arewethereyet]

6. then why did he lose to Sharpton and Kerry

Edwards came to Clark's must win state and was narrowly edged.

And Kerry was not far off either.

Sorry but your argument is not moving me.

[Quixote1818]

9. Mondale won his home state and lost the other 49. Winning your home

state is not much of an accomplishment. Edwards was born there. Clark had no ties to Oklahoma at all! If you can't see the difference then you are lying to yourself. Edwards lost to Clark in New Hampshire as well. Edwards can't even get third place in any South West state. Edwards has a lot to proove.

[Edwards4President]

10. Oklahoma is not Edwards' home state

yet he came this close to beating Clark there - not bad, considering Edwards hardly campaigned there at all in the past few months.

Amd yes, Clark beat Edwards in NH - by a negligible margin after campaigning his butt off there for weeks.

Using your examples, one could argue that Clark only beats Edwards when Edwards doesn't really try and he just barely manages to beat him even then.

You might want to try a different argument. This one doesn't help Clark much.

[jmaier]

11. See post #3 ... Edwards outcampaigned Clark in OK

[Edwards4President]

17. Not in the past several weeks . . .

Edwards nearly beat Clark in Oklahoma without doing much in the state in the homestretch. No doubt, had he spent a fraction of the time that Clark had spent there in the past couple of weeks, he likely would have beaten him.

I'm not pointing this out to downplay Clark's win, for which he deserves a lot of credit. But Clark's win in Oklahoma is certainly not an indication of any weakness in Edwards' appeal outside of his region. In fact, Edwards' showing in Oklahoma speaks to his strength.

[arewethereyet]

19. but Clark camped out in OK for the final week

Edwards campaigned in several states that week.

Exit polls showed a large number of final week deciders.

Clark was declining in the polls, Edwards rising fast.


Clark DID win but barely and he evaporated in SC that he had been figured prominantly in. Before Iowa.

[spooky3]

13. Edwards can't have 2 "home states" can he? North Carolina is where

he lives, spent most of his childhood and adulthood. This is next door to--but not the same as--South Carolina. Clark is from Arkansas, is he not?--right next door to Oklahoma AND Missouri.

[DjTj]

22. 2 Home States? I'll take it!

...sounds like good Electoral sense to me.

[ShaneGR]

7. Well, uh.... take away Clark and Edwards gets 60%

Your point?

[Edge]

15. Amen to that!

[Edwards4President]

18. And take away Kerry, Edwards gets 90%!

OK - your turn.

:-)

[Edge]

21. Take away Dean and Edwards gets 100%

[ShaneGR]

23. Screw it, take away Dean, Kerry, Clark, Sharpton, Kucinich......

Edwards gets 114%, LOL!

[Edge]

24. lmao!

[katieforeman]

16. You've got it backwards!

If Clark weren't from AK, Edwards would have had a decisive victory in Oklahoma. Even though Clark had spent almost all of his time in NH, OK, and SC, he only beat John Edwards by about 1300 votes in OK, he didn't even come anywhere close to Edwards in South Carolina, and he only beat Edwards for third place in New Hampshire by a couple hundred votes (despite the fact that Edwards had spent most of his time in Iowa while Clark was campaigning non-stop in NH.)

When will you realize Edwards is infinitely more electable than Clark?

Depite his military service, Clark is extremely vulnerable to attacks on his integrity:
He was fired as NATO commander.

The former Chairman of the Joint Cheifs attacked Clark's integrity directly.

His statements are all over the place. He's on record praising George W. Bush and his administration and voting for Republicans. Now he's running as a Democrat.

He said he would have voted for the resolution authorizing war in Iraq and then he flip-flopped.

He's constantly making gaffs. For example he boasted that he was a general and Kerry was only a Lt. Newsflash to Clark- most people in the military aren't generals and statements like this alienate his natural constituency and make him seem elitist.

He's constantly having to backtrack on statements he makes. Wesley Clark is a fine man but Karl Rove will seize on these things and do to Clark what they did to Gore.

In the general election, military record or not, people won't trust someone with tehir security if they think he panders instead of leading.

[ecstatic]

20. That sounds a lot like what Limbaugh said a few years ago about blacks

Ergh..umm.. if you take away the "black vote" Bush won by a landslide. LOL!

[DjTj]

26. Take away Bush and Gore would be President...

...hundreds of American soldiers would still be alive...

...thousands of Americans would still have their jobs...

...Wesley Clark would still be lobbying in Washington...

...Edwards would be running for reelection in the Senate...

...Joementum would be building for 2008...

If only...

[King of New Orleans]

27. make that

...millions of Americans would still have their jobs.

[spooky3]

28. ...respect for the US would not be in free-fall...

...No Child Left Behind would be fully funded...
...equal employment opportunity laws would be enforced...