Dean, Bush or Lieberman the "Jesus candidate"?

[Pontus]

Lieberman makes no apologies for promoting the idea that America has to recognize its religious heritage and honor the values of that religion. In this case he promotes a Judeo-Christian point of view. Bush does the same but from a Methodist background and more references to Jesus. Now dean is getting into the action by promising to make many references to Jesus during the campaign? Is this, coupled with his support of those who support the Confederate flag, just to win the southern primaries? How do people out there feel about Howard "I believe" Dean's new strategy?

[drdigi420]

1. Its a sad thing when candidates

have to pander to the lowest common denominator, especially using the delusions of religious people to win votes.

[kalian]

2. Yup...that's what worries me....

[Scott Lee]

16. Are you calling Christians the "lowest common denominator"?

Wow, I'll bet they wouldn't think too highly of that.

[November 2004]

3. One would think that conservatives

want to conserve the founding principles of this country.

As we all know, people left England to get away from the Church of England. That is why the founders put in freedom OF religion.

It's not freedom FROM religion, but it is quite clear we are to have no state sanctioned religion.

Maybe they even realized there would come a time when this country would go beyond its Christian (or Judeo-Christian) origins and wanted to be sure all faiths or people with no religious beliefs would feel welcome; because of the freedom OF religion.

[kalian]

4. Yeah...what IS the definition of "conservative" nowadays....?

:shrug:

Including their rhetoric about "small government"... :eyes:
"Balanced budgets"....

No such thing as a "conservative"...except "conserving" their money
and their greed.

[Malva Zebrina]

5. err, those you are calling "founders" were not founders at all

they were British subjects and remained so for a hundred years, alm;ost two hundred and more since they landed on these shores.

During that time, their particular religious sect simply died out due to lack of flexibility.

In other words, what they fled their mother country for, in order to establish their new zion, they saw to it in due time that they swiftly persecuted those who did not agree with them here. Ie, the Quakers and we all know of course, about the "witches" and Ann Hutchinson and also Roger Williams.



Their children did not, could not obey because the religion did not keep up with the enormous amount of immigration to this country from ALL sorts of people from ALL parts of the world. It DIED. The children could not carry it on--in only one generation it DIED.

Other religions settled in other parts of the country--New York, Maryland, Pennsylvania--

Although they contibuted much to this country, the Puritans did not "found" it. Neither did the Mayflower compact-nor did the document of Jefferson declaring these colonies in revolt against the king and signifying the willingness of these peoples to go to a war to declare their independance. Puritans never thought to declare their independance and none of that was the "founding" of this country.

The Constitution, the debates around the writing of the constitution, is what is behind the founding of this country. The framers of that Consitution are the "founders" and they were wise indeed in attempting this great, grand experiment. Never have a people been this free from government incursion before these founders--the authors of the Constitution--saw to it to be so bold and to take such a risk. It had nothing to do with the Puritans!

[Cheswick2.0]

6. er, the pilgrims were not puritans

They were Separatists. I think Joe Lieberman is talking about the Christian religion of the actual founders. The men who created the states and state charters and the US constitution etc.... Though several of them claimed Deism, most were regular church goers and many of them were quite religious. The wanted a secular nation so that one denomination would be free from another's control and they would all be free of state interference. They also wanted to keep clergy from gaining power in the government. Yes other denominations came here and they were Christian too. Then other religions also came, jews, muslim, hindu etc... and people who beleive in no religion at all. But no one ever claimed the founders were "Puritans". You are reacting to a non existant argument.

[Myra]

7. Seriously, does Dean's timing seem strange?

If he's starting to sprinkle his rhetoric with
references to his religion, doesn't it seem like
it'd turn off more people than it turns on at this
point?

Does anyone understand the timing?

[SahaleArm]

8. LOL - On Christmas Day Dean finds Jesus n/t

[Myra]

10. ...Ewww.

Oh! Ewww.
This is just a country gone mad.

[Scott Lee]

15. Actually, Dean's been a Christian all his life.

But please, don't let me interrupt the circus. I was just starting to enjoy the third ring!

[robcon]

12. The timing is obvious.

On Tuesday, The New Republuic's cover article is on Dean's lack of religion...

https://ssl.tnr.com/p/docsub.mhtml?i=20031229&s=foer122903

On Wednesday, Dean claims he is a believer and follower of Jesus, and he will mention religion, his beliefs and God when he campaigns in the South...

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/359/nation/Seeking_a_new_emphasis_Dean_touts_his_ChristianityP.shtml

[windansea]

9. more pathetic pandering...

the main point I see in this whole episode is the further exposure of Dean's chameleon-like posing on issues...and he even admits it...he's going to start mentioning God more now as he stumps in the south...if he did this all the time it would be believable and authentic...professing your faith to win a certain block of voters is pathetic pandering...

[KittyWampus]

11. What Freaks Me Is Dean Used The "Left Behind" Code Words

And the way he used it makes little sense really. I honestly think he used that phrase in an intentional, premeditated way.

"Christ was someone who sought out people who were disenfranchised, people who were left behind," Dean said. "He fought against self-righteousness of people who had everything . . . He was a person who set an extraordinary example that has lasted 2000 years, which is pretty inspiring when you think about it."

First, Christ didn't seek anyone out. He spoke and people came to listen. Christ was not a proselytizer.
Second, Christ's message is not focused on the disenfranchised. He spoke to Humanity about Unity/Love... to the poor and the wealthy.

Dean's interpretation of what is in the New Testament is.... telling.

[retyred]

13. But he did get the main guys name right didn't he?

Even if he's not quite sure what Christ did or was doing or why, he did get his name right, that counts right?

So what if dean has said little about religion while campaigning (till now) or that dean does not attend church regularly, or that dean chose Congregationalism -- a denomination, he said, that suits him, because "there is no centralized -- almost no centralized authority.

He did get the name most folks recognize right and can increasingly include references to Jesus and God in his speeches as he stumps in the South if he wants to. /sarcasm


retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[KittyWampus]

14. Attending Church Regular Means Little, IMO

But having a basic understanding of the Core Issue of the New Testament would be nice, if you are going to talk about Christ.

But then, the Fundies have talking heads spouting off about "Christ" on several television & radio stations daily... and none of them seem to have a grasp on the concept of Unity either.

[Myra]

17. Um, I actually rather like that quote.

"Christ was someone who sought out people who were disenfranchised, people who were left behind," Dean said. "He fought against self-righteousness of people who had everything . . . He was a person who set an extraordinary example that has lasted 2000 years, which is pretty inspiring when you think about it."

In fact I like it quite a bit.
It points out something admirable about a person who lived
long ago, regardless of who it was.
And it underscores one thing that's very very wrong with
the US now: that it victimizes the weak.

I mean, how many times can we watch our gov't beat up on
homeless people and those on welfare and not feel outrage?

(BTW, I think the no child left behind theme was swiped from Ted
Kennedy, but I'm not sure.)

[Moderator]

18. Consolidating threads

Please continue the discussion here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=26003'


DU Moderator