Governor Dean’s Statement on Massachusetts Court Ruling

[killbotfactory]

Governor Dean commented on the Massachusetts Supreme Court decision to support same-gender marriages:

"I believe firmly that we must do everything in our power to assure that all citizens of the United States are afforded equal rights under the law -- and that includes gay as well as straight couples. As Governor of Vermont, I was proud to sign the nation's first law establishing civil unions for same-sex
couples. Today's decision by the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court represents a different approach to the same goal. One way or another, states should afford same-sex couples equal treatment under law in areas such as health insurance, hospital visitation and inheritance rights.

"Some in Washington will use this decision to justify the proposed Federal Marriage Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. This would be the first constitutional amendment to authorize discrimination, and I oppose it. Marriage is a matter of state law, and gay bashing has no place in the
Constitution."

http://www.blogforamerica.com/

[Wetzelbill]

1. yet another reason why I like Dean

[MAlibdem]

2. He's 100% correct (nt)

[Fleshdancer]

3. Now this, my friend, is a response.

"One way or another, states should afford same-sex couples equal treatment under law in areas such as health insurance, hospital visitation and inheritance rights."

Exactly. At the end of the day, it should all come down to equal rights.

[PatrickS]

7. Yep

I agree 100%

[soleft]

4. This beats Kerry's response by a long shot

Dammit, I still prefer Dean.

[Frodo]

11. I've got to say...

...that I've looked at this decision as incredibly unfortunate timing and damaging politically. But Dean has the best possible response. "Not the way I would have handled it (and did), but they have to do SOMETHING".

[HFishbine]

5. Compare to Kerry

"I oppose gay marriage and disagree with the Massachusetts court's decision."

http://news.myway.com/politics/article/id/47681

[gWbush is Mabus]

9. Kerry is a pandering opportunist

[Meldread]

20. Exactly.

Kerry will say or do anything if the polls say he should. Iraq war no longer popular? Well then, turn against it even though you voted for it. Patriot Act no longer the best bill you ever signed? Well then, just tell everyone that you didn't read it and that it was rushed through. Gay Marriage down in the polls? Well tell those queers to shut the hell up you have an election to win and can't be bothered with "civil rights".

Makes me sick.

[MAlibdem]

65. Or...

Kerry is playing the front runner...

...and Dean is playing catch up and trying to break back in in Wisconsin. To get press he needs to create a stir. Kerry needs to avoid new press at the moment and coast on old stuff like endorsements and slush pieces about electibility, front runner status, and leadership.

It's called politics.

[blm]

12. Where does Dean say he's FOR gay marriage here? I missed it.

Or is Dean playing cute and saying nothing new while his supporters THINK he's approving gay marriage and while instead he's on the same page with civil unions as Kerry.

[killbotfactory]

13. He's not denouncing it

And he is calling out those who want to amend the constitution to ban it.

[blm]

18. He has the EXACT same position.

None of the candidates want a Constitutional amendment, so where is Dean different? Only in the minds of those who want to believe so.

[killbotfactory]

23. He didn't say the court was wrong

Unlike Kerry.

[blm]

28. He didn't say the court was right or that he is for gay marriage.

.

[killbotfactory]

30. He said it was an important step towards equal rights under the law

Unlike Kerry.

[RogueTrooper]

39. The difference is

one will put himself on the line for equal rights. The other prefers a more "nuanced" position.

[mzmolly]

47. Eggzactly!

Kerry is the king of *nuance*

[joshcryer]

51. That's a lie, he did say the court was right.

Get your facts straight.

[killbotfactory]

55. I do have my facts straight

http://www.abc6.com/article.php?ID=4472

Senator and presidential candidate John Kerry says he disagrees with the gay marriage ruling by the highest court in his home state.

Kerry says he believes in protecting what he calls the "fundamental rights of gay and lesbian couples" to such things as inheritance and health benefits. But he says he opposes same-sex marriages.

[joshcryer]

59. ::waves:: I was responding to blm. Just FYI. :)

I think it's dishonest to suggest that Dean isn't against this like Kerry.

[Mairead]

61. And that mean's he's for it??

It looks to me just like Kerry's statement, only worded differently.

[soleft]

19. He's not on the same page as Kerry

They're both for Civil Unions but the difference in attitude is important.

[aquart]

22. It didn't sound cute.

The issue has always been that gay couples didn't have the same rights as straight couples. Not in insurance, housing and apartment inheritance, anywhere. A gay couple together twenty years, one gets sick and the other isn't notified because they're not married?

It was day to day to day discrimination in things that REALLY matter. And Dean puts the emphasis where it matters.

Gay marriage is a buzz phrase used by the right as a buzz saw. NEVER respond using their language.

[no name no slogan]

45. but marriage is used in the law, "civil union" is not

Marriage is mentioned repeatedly in the law, the tax code in particular.

"Civil union" is a nice feel-good phrase concocted by guilty straight liberals to make them feel like they're doing something for GLBT folk, while not giving them the same rights as hetero people.

As the Mass court said, "civil unions" for GLBTs and "marriage" for hets amounts to "seperate but equal" treatment under the law.

Dean has REPEATEDLY said that he's for "civil unions", but not for full marriage rights. He had the option to grant full marriage rights to gays in VT, but the chose the "safer" "civil union" route instead.

The only difference between Dean and Kerry on this issue is their public statements. Otherwise, they both favor second-class status for non-heterosexual unions.

Only Dennis Kucinich and Al Sharpton have taken a bold stand on this issue, saying that marriage is a CIVIL RIGHT available to EVERYONE, regardless of sexual preference.

If heteros receive benefits/perks from marriage under the law (which they do), then GLBT folk should too.

[joshcryer]

53. Civil union laws can in fact be synonymous with marriage...

...as far as protections under the law goes. Fact.

[no name no slogan]

58. Better tell the Massachusetts Supreme Court then,

because they rejected "civil unions" as being unequal to marriage in the eyes of the law. That's the fact of the ruling.

[joshcryer]

60. It is to the extent that "civil union" needs to be presented...

...in the context of saying "Hey, this civil union law protects me," whereas 'marriage' tends to be written in the law so that such a pretext is unnecessary. In other words, "civil union" needs an "extra piece of paper" to enforce, so it's not as 'good' as marriage.

They do afford equal protections, however, when enforced appropriately.

I like this partciular ruling, though, and I am not suggesting that civil unions are better by far, I'm just saying that civil unions are not 'lesser' as far as practicality goes.

[polmaven]

26. Well, blm,

He obviously said it, and said it first, and all John Kerry is doing is stealing Dean's position on it....Its just that..well..people like you and me are just too, well, too stupid to be able to understand that.

Sometimes after I leave this forum, I begin to wonder how I can actually turn my 'puter on and off, being so dumb 'n all. I dunno, I guess I'll never know, 'cause, ya know, I'm not bright enough to figger it out. **Sigh**.......

[Calico4000]

64. Hmmmm...

I was considering a vote of Kucinich, Kerry, and perhaps Dean or Clark. Kerry is now next to Lieberman on my list. I thought he was a total opposite.

[Jacobin]

6. It's so sad that his campaign has gone poorly of late

I always agree with him....at least 99% of the time. I wonder if I shouldn't live in a different country, if so many of my countrymen have views so drastically different from mine.

I mean, what is there to disagree about here?

[killbotfactory]

8. Like to see a democrat sticking up for everybody?

Then donate to Dean!

http://www.deanforamerica.com/wisconsinad

Skip the fast food today and spend that money on a guy who fights for equal rights and republican discrimination!

I just did, and it feels good!

[Wetzelbill]

24. A Kucinich supporter Alright! :)

[TheDonkey]

10. Dean still got it wrong.

Only Kucinich and Sharpton have the correct response.

Dean is ignoring discrimination as much as Kerry, Edwards, or Clark. Not until all American's everywhere can be married is it, a correct response.

[blm]

15. Sh...Dean is fooling them again. He says NOTHING new, yet they believe

he's saying he's FOR gay marriage even though he's only repeating the exact same position he has held on civil unions, just as Kerry and the others.

If this matters to people they should vote for Kucinich.

[killbotfactory]

17. He is not denouncing the decision...

Unlike Kerry.

[HFishbine]

25. Verrrry slowwwly now

Contrast and compare.

Kerry: "I oppose gay marriage and disagree with the Massachusetts court's decision."

Dean: "I believe firmly that we must do everything in our power to assure that all citizens of the United States are afforded equal rights under the law -- and that includes gay as well as straight couples. As Governor of Vermont, I was proud to sign the nation's first law establishing civil unions for same-sex
couples. Today's decision by the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court represents a different approach to the same goal.

No difference I suppose, to those for whom equal right are inconsequential.

[lastliberalintexas]

33. Nuance only works

when Kerry does it. ;)

[RetroLounge]

56. Is nuance another word for having no spine?

thought so...

[goodhue]

50. Dean's mistake is claiming it is same goal

Separate but equal (eg, civil unions) does afford all citizens equal rights under the law.

In the same sense would Dean say Plessy v. Ferguson was merely a different approach to the same goal represented by Brown v. Bd of Ed?

[joshcryer]

54. Show me where in Vermont law marriage != civil union.

Sorry, you're simply wrong here.

[Mairead]

62. If Dean had been for a uniform marriage law, he would have called for one

in Vt. He speaks his mind, right?

[aquart]

29. What should he say that's new?

Gay marriage is a carefully chosen phrase used by Republicans to terrify their base.

Are gays trying to get married because they want to wear a white dress? Or because there are important rights that are only enjoyed by married couples?

Dean espouses the rights and avoids the buzz phrase. You want him to say it, why? Is there a leading candidate who has?

[Anwen]

14. Way to go Gov. Dean!

He simply must win.

[JuniorPlankton]

16. Bravo!

[nancyharris]

21. Once again

Governor Dean does not have the courage to simply state that he approves of allowing gays state certified marriage. Again he waffles behind the “up to the states” cover. If he is really a leader then he would say he approves of the Mass court ruling and supports gay marriages.

[killbotfactory]

27. Maybe...

Dean just wants same-sex couples to have equal rights under the law in every state and doesn't think forcing them to adopt language which is a lightning rod for controversy in describing those relationships is the best way to do it... ?

[HFishbine]

31. Yeah, maybe.

Or definitely.

[nancyharris]

35. Can you answer simply?

Does he or does he not approve of gay marriage. Seems a simple enough question to answer. How about you? Do you support gay marriage?

[killbotfactory]

36. If that's what the state wants, Dean supports them

I support gay marriage, but don't think what we call it is as important as getting everybody equal rights under the law. If calling it "gay marriage" in a state is enough to cause a backlash which would set back progress towards equal rights, then I'm fine with them calling it something else.

[nancyharris]

38. Well now

It wasn't so hard for you to say "I support gay marriage" and I can easily say "I support gay marriage" yet Governor Dean refuses to support gay marriage.

<"If calling it "gay marriage" in a state is enough to cause a backlash which would set back progress towards equal rights">

How in the world would gay marriage set back progress for equal rights??? Gay marriage IS equal rights. Civil Unions is not.

[HFishbine]

37. Define Gay Marriage

I'll try to give you an honest answer, but first I'll have to make sure I understand your question completely. What is "gay marriage?"

[nancyharris]

41. Gay Marriage

is when the state allows cities and counties to issue state certified marriage certificates to gay and lesbian couples and recognizes that marriage contract in a manner identical to all other marriage certificates including those from other states. It also means that the federal government must recognize that contract as it does all other state marriage certificates.

This is very, very, very different than civil unions. Civil unions have "selected" recognition within a state and no recognition to the federal government. For instance gay couples in Vermont, who are recognized in civil unions, cannot file their federal income tax as married jointly and thus cannot gain those tax benefits.

[HFishbine]

42. Thanks for the reply

I had to run to the store. Sorry for the delay.

To give an honest answer, you had defined everything that Dean has espoused up until the issue of federal income taxes. On that issue, I didn't know. So I went looking. Here's what I found:

“As president of the United States, I will recognize civil unions, which will then allow full equality under the law as far as the federal government is concerned,” Dean said in a speech to the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association convention in Philadelphia.

Vermont is the only state in the country that formally recognizes relationships of gay and lesbian couples. Through a pact known as civil unions, passed by the Legislature in 2000, the state grants same-sex couples all of the rights and benefits of marriage that are conferred by the state government.

Dean made a point of saying that Vermont has not passed a law for what is commonly referred to as gay marriage, emphasizing that civil unions are a parallel, but separate, institution. Nonetheless, the law does confer state benefits to same-sex couples, such as state tax advantages and health care and inheritance rights.

“We have full civil marriage rights (for gays and lesbians), we just don’t call it marriage,” Dean said. (1)

I think Dean is right to avoid the term "gay marriage" it's a loaded term. Dean is not going to play those word games. His position is unequivocally clear. Equal rights for gay couples in every aspect of the law.

1) http://rutlandherald.com/hdean/53124

[nancyharris]

43. Actually

It is Governor Dean who is playing “word games”. He wants to look progressive by supporting civil unions without having to take a stand on gay marriage. Yes, gay marriage is a “loaded” term. It is “loaded” with a boatload of civil rights that civil unions don’t have.

It is, to my ears, the height of hypocrisy to say “As president of the United States, I will recognize civil unions, which will then allow full equality under the law as far as the federal government is concerned,” when the TRUTH is that the president does not have the power to effect “allow full equality under the law”. Is Governor Dean so uninformed that he doesn’t know that or is he (successfully in your case) pulling the wool over supporter’s eyes so they don’t look too closely at what he really stands for?

If he really believes in “Equal rights for gay couples in every aspect of the law.” Then why doesn’t he simply say that he supports the ruling of the MSJC?

[HFishbine]

48. Then, you're ignoring the facts at hand.

I asked you for your definition of marriage. You offered it and I showed you that Dean's is completely and totaly in line with what you defined.

Don't hold it against Dean that the president may or may not have the pwer to affect the issue completely on his own. That's not the issue. The issue is, as a candidate, and as a president, if he were to be elected, Dean's views would be perfectly in sync with your definition of gay marriage. To further illustrate the point, what extra-presidential powers would Kucinich utilize to go beyond the absolute equality Dean espouses?

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RetroLounge]

57. Well we know Kerry doesn't.

and that makes him a dickhead in my book.

[corporatewhore]

32. Alot better than kerrys response

[Snivi Yllom]

34. So good.

I can't believe he is no longer the front runner...Grrrrr.

[BootinUp]

40. Good for Dean n/t

[ProfessorPlum]

44. Someone tell me again. . .

why this guy isn't the frontrunner?

[polmaven]

46. Because more people

voted for the other guys...that's why.

[mzmolly]

49. Because the RW media fears him...

And the stepford public "bit" the unelectable bone.

[Calico4000]

63. I still think I will vote Kucinich

But this brings Dean closer to my #2 spot.