Why this Clark supporter might just vote for Dean in the CA primary

[absyntheNsugar]

I like Clark better. I think he has the best shot at unseating the small cute dog. He's a war hero, he's a Rhodes Scholar, he has a background in economics as well as foreign relations. Basically I think we as a party are throwing away a gift from God by not nominating him. However, the people speak the people speak....

Anyway, Dean was the first to go against the pink tutu Dems. He took the anti-war stance when every other Democrat was afraid to do so. And it was his campaign. Clark took the same message, repackaged it to sell to a greater America but I honestly beleive Clark and Dean are very similar.

So, seeing that Clark hasn't got the best chance in California, and by supporting Dean I'm supporting that message....I may just vote for Dean in the primary here in California.

Does this mean anything? Perhaps more than it usually would. The race is tight, and many pundits are saying states like California might determine the candidate. If voting for Clark ensures a Kerry win, then I would rather help Dean than nominate Kerry.

HOWEVER...despite my Kerry misgivings, if the man wins the nom I WILL BACK HIM IN NOVEMBER.

And I encourage all of us here to look past Kerry's shortcomings and come together to unseat the small cute dog.

[lancdem]

1. LOL!

"small cute dog." That's a new one.

[absyntheNsugar]

2. Tom Tomorrow ref

I love it when he does his 'parallel earth' comics about the small cute dog appointed by the supreme court.

[TacticalPeek]

31. A small cute (yellow) dog could beat Shrub by November at this rate.

(Did you see your name on CSI last night?)

[Jack_Dawson]

3. You ain't no Clark supporter

Ditching Clark to jump on the Titanic is not Clark-like. But if your "support" is that precarious, you would, in fact, be better off in the Dean camp.

[absyntheNsugar]

6. Well I look at it this way

By the time California primary rolls around (we're at the end of primary season) if Clark doesn't have the delegates, he simply won't have the delegates. Even taking all the California delegates won't get him the nomination.

So if he doesn't get his campaign moving - he simply has no chance of winning.

I don't want to vote to send a *message* to Washington. I want to vote strategically. And I would much rather see a Dean v Bush election than a Kerry v Bush election.

Now if he has a sliver of a fighting chance by that time, of course my vote goes to Clark. But by that time, he will either have that sliver or will have dropped out.

[Jack_Dawson]

19. You are joking right? Dean v. Bush = 4 more years of Bush

[absyntheNsugar]

26. Perhaps, but Dean/Clark v Bush/Cheney?

Changes everything. If Dean wins I honestly see this match up. Dean was wounded in Iowa, and he knows he needs to set his ticket up right, and swallow the pride.

[Jack_Dawson]

27. Clark play 2nd fiddle to DEAN?

Dude...how do you call yourself a Clark supporter? This is some of the lamest crap I've ever heard. Dean is in a free-fall the likes of which history has never seen, and you want to align yourself with him?

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[BootinUp]

4. Still too soon

to write off Clark. Wait and see.

[absyntheNsugar]

10. yes it is still way too soon

I'm just formulating scenarios at this point.

Who knows? Edwards might take the lead....I doubt it but anything can happen at this point.

[Tom Rinaldo]

5. See what happens

The election now is being controlled by the perception of momentum. Look how quickly Dean leads melted in some states. Look how quickly Kerry rose from nowhere in others without even campaigning there. I suspect there is a better chance that Clark will be competitive in CA then Dean. I say that because there is a chance Clark can score a solid win in TN next Tuesday, and unless Dean wins in Washington, he will still be winless heading into Wisconsin. That could lead to a momentum swing from Dean to Clark, and if Clark beats Dean in Wisconsin he, not Dean, will run stronger in California the week after.

If I am wrong, vote for Dean in California. As a Clark supporter, I have no problem with that.

[Terwilliger]

7. If you're going to do that, vote Kucinich instead

Dean won't be around too much longer

[tnlefty]

8. Split votes here

Spouse and I have decided to split our votes in the primary to 1 for Dean and 1 for Clark. I attended a rally for Clark yesterday and I chatted with an older couple who initially were Dean supporters who are now backing Clark, and they mentioned that they might do the same thing, unless it starts to look as if Clark will win TN and then they will cast 2 votes for him.

[Democrats unite]

9. I think even Dean supporters would disagree with you

They won't vote for anyone but Dean while he is in the race & I for one commend them for that! They are standing on principal. If Dean were to ever drop out of the race then they would move to their 2nd choice. That is exactly How I am with Clark! You are either a supporter or not.

Clark is by no means even close to being out of the race & the same can be said about Dean.

[absyntheNsugar]

11. You never played chess much, did you?

Not to personalize this...but chess played well is all about multiple stategies.

The goal here, is to remove Bush. The secondary goal here, is to get a candidate who will make this country some place I am proud of again. I am sure both Dean and Clark will do that. So the next goal here is to support the candidate who (a) has the best chance of winning who (b) embodies that potential.

I like Kucinich alot - but will not vote for him on this basis alone. I do not vote my conscience, I vote strategy. Call me fair weather, but we need to win - that is why no matter who the Dem nomniee is, I am ABB 100%.

[Democrats unite]

12. The goal here is to stand by your convictions.

If you want to Vote for Dean go right ahead, but don't call yourself a Clark supporter, Call yourself a Dean supporter. We have to many people in Washington flipfloping on the issues I will use Kerry as an example. This is what Clark and Dean are against. & by the way I play chess very well & I am also a man of conviction.

[absyntheNsugar]

15. Well then I challenge you to a friendly game of chess

and as to the other point - one might call me an undecided then.

Politics is not about *conviction* - it is about comprimise, and strategy. Clark is all about strategy - how else would he have been in charge of three major operations and brought every man back alive?

If it was only about conviction, then hey - I would write in Pete Stark! I consider him to be the best man for the job. But that would be foolish.

[Democrats unite]

22. Fine you want to play chess

Be undecided thats great! Not a Clark supporter though. Check mate.

[tnlefty]

14. Some Dean supporters will as a matter of stratergery

refers to post #8.:)

18. Strong Dean supporter here

and this makes perfect sense to me.
I was a strong Nader supporter in 1996 and 2000, but it doesn't mean I would have voted for him if I'd been living in a state where the race was close, like in Florida because a vote for him would have been a vote for Bush.
Same logic seems to apply here. If Clark is way behind in California (just for the sake of argument at 2%) & Kerry and Dean are close (say at 26% and 25%), it would obviously have more of an impact on things if 1% of voters went for Dean instead of Clark.
If you think 2 candidates will advance the issues you believe in more than a third one will, it makes perfect sense to do what absyntheNsugar is considering.

[lyonn]

13. Dean/Clark strategy

That's what I did here in OK when I voted for Clark. Dean is still my choice for the very reasons you set out, he got Dems off square one. He also spoke clearly and very little double talk, or should I say political talk. The war is such a big issue for America because it has caused our standing in the world to grow small, has cost us dearly in $$, killed and maimed so many of our solders for a cause that so far hasn't accomplished what most of us wanted after 9-11, medical malpractice insurance issues Dean and Clark both state need to be investigated, (I don't believe there are that many malpractice judgments against doctors that would cause their rates to climb so severely, did the insurance co. invest unwisely in the market before it crashed?), took $$ away from first responders?? how irresponsible can one administration be. Dean and Clark have both addresed these issues clearly. I'm not sure Kerry has been the stellar senator that is being represented. Where does he get the backing via money and media? These are my sincere questions and I'm checking them out as he may well be our candidate and I will vote for him. Still, I worry about "me too" politicians. Clark and Dean speak their mind and get pounded. Sorry for rambling, but this election is for the Dems to win I am sure if we don't mess up.

[LiberalBushFan]

16. If we want to stop Kerry/Edwards

we need to concentrate 'outsider' votes on one outsider candidate, and it seems that should be Clark at this point. If other candidates get in the way and last too long Kerry won't be stoppable.

[Tom Rinaldo]

17. Something is bothering me

Like I said above, by California a lot should be clearer. If Clark has faded but Dean hasn't, I can understand your position, though I think exactly the opposite is more likely to happen.

However I notice that you started another thread here stating that you think the race will come down to Dean vs. Kerry, where you made no mention of supporting Clark at all, and where you simply speculate on who Clark is more likely to throw his support to.

You do not seem to be a very strong Clark supporter from what you are saying, factoring in both threads. Clark, not Dean, has actually won a primary to date. Clark, not Dean, has scored the highest number of second place finishes in primaries. Clark, not Dean, is more likely to win a contest next week. The fact that Dean has a few more delegates at this point, which you point out on your other thread, means nothing. Both men have only a tiny fraction of the delegates they would need to win. Clark however picked up many more delegates than Dean last week.

Talking about what you may do in March if things don't work out the way you claim that you hope that they do is one thing. Starting another thread where you state that it is a two man Dean Kerry race is another. Thankfully most of the Clark supporters that I know are more excited about his chances than you are.

[Jack_Dawson]

21. Clark has won a state, Dean has won nothing

And his historically unprecedented downward slide shows no signs of letting up. This scenario is silly.

[absyntheNsugar]

23. As strange as this may sound

I think I'm one of the few here who looks at '04 with a 'glass full' mentality.

I honestly beleive the election is ours to win, whether it be Kerry, Dean, Clark or Edwards. However, if Kerry or Edwards wins - I see a presidency much like Clinton's second term. Congress will be Republican dominated, and a lot of conservative bills slightly watered down will be passed. I also see the Iraq war dragging along, with no sign of ending. True, no new wars will be started (if Bush wins, expect to see Syria, Iran and possibly NK light up like Christmas trees.)

With Dean or Clark, I see a much brighter future. Iraq will end, no new wars, and a man like Dean or Clark would stonewall the Republicans on key bills, while passing innocuous facade-only bills.

I see this election divided into two camps - the DLC-sponsored candidates (Kerry and Edwards) and the *outsiders.* I support our camp more than I support a specific candidate. Does that make me a man who doesn't stand by my convictions? I don't think so.

[Zinnola]

24. As a Dean supporter

If has sunk by March 2nd, and is hypotheticaly at 2% and Clark is closer to Kerry, I will vote for Clark.

[Jack_Dawson]

28. Now THERE is an intelligent comment.

THANK you for restoring some sanity to this twilight zone thread.

:toast:

[Tom Rinaldo]

29. I will find myself looking at the same tactical equation in NY

By March 2nd it should be clear which of the two, Clark or Dean, is better positioned to beat Kerry. We both have time to cross that bridge. Voters in Wisconsin might have to make a less clear cut call however. I know it is the "Dean pulls out all stops" state, but if Clark wins in TN, and is climbing in the polls in Wisconsin, that could bring about a very hard choice for Dean's supporters IF Dean shows no sign of a recovery there. It will be easier for Clark supporters because we will know by then how he did in TN.

Note: I am NOT predicting that Dean won't do well in Wisconsin. He may very well pull it together there, and Clark could fall short in TN. My main point is that voters on March 2nd will most likely already know who is still viable.

[lyonn]

30. Absy (?) not a true Clark supporter?

I thought she stated some very positive positions that Clark holds. He is smart, worldly (has dealt with foreign leaders), etc. I understand where she is coming from. Being a Dean supporter, I don't think Dean's chances are looking all that good, there's always hope 'cause he does speak what I think is the truth, so much for speaking out! The masses don't want their life complicated with details. By the way, my husband likes Clark, as I stated earlier Clark got my vote since Dean didn't have a prayer in Oklahoma.

[Renew Deal]

20. Dean will be gone by the time Super Tuesday comes

So you won't have to worry about it.

[clarknyc]

25. Maybe.

Maybe not. I'm patient. Let's see what happens.