Not a Dean bash, but a question about him and Planned Parenthood

[Bucky]

In another thread, I saw a link to a New Republic article posted on FreeRepublic (fine, let them deal with the copyright issues). After reading the article about Dean, I skimmed thru the Freepies' comments about Dean and the article and found mention that Dr. Dean did his medical internship at Planned Parenthood.

Of course one considers the source, so I don't necessarily believe whatever tripe they write in Freeperville. But I have to ask if this is true. Personally I greatly admire the work Planned Parenthood does. So caveat one is I am not attacking Planned Parenthood.

Also, even though I'm very concerned about his lack of electability, I very much admire Howard Dean as a person and as a candidate. So caveat two is I am not attacking Governor Dean.

I'm not sure that Planned Parenthood in Vermont or anywhere else hires medical interns the way tradition hospitals do, so maybe he worked there rather than interning there. I've never heard of any hint that he's provided abortion services, but maybe Democrats are just too damn polite to bring the matter up in debate. Anyway, caveat three is I am not attacking abortion rights.

Please don't respond to me in a manner that suggests I am attacking any of those three things. That said, I'm wondering if there's any truth to this statement that Dean worked for Planned Parenthood. If so, is there any room there for Republicans to work up an effective smear against Dean in the general election? I know they'll try to smear him. My question is "is there material in his professional background to allow their inevitable smears to be effective?

[RevolutionStartsNow]

1. No, there is not

but of course they will try. As they would with any candidate and their background.

[JohnKleeb]

2. Most pro lifers will vote for Bush anyways right?

I don't mean no disrespect to any pro life dems out there, my grandparents are just that, and while they dont support Dean now, they would be willing to give him their vote should he got the nod, same with my other pro life dem relatives.

[Dems Will Win]

4. The Good Doctor was an Obstetrician -- he delivered babies, not abort them

The two specialties specialize. Obstetricians do not as a rule, ever perform abortions or vice versa.

Whew! Close one, however! Believe me the other Dem candidates would have flaunted this all over if it were the case.

In fact, Dean is the first medical doctor to run for President and obstetricians have a far higher trust level in local communities than lawyers, politicians and oil men.

[JohnKleeb]

5. I see

btw I dont think the other dem candiates would criticize him for this, even Lieberman wouldnt :), I dont think.

[KaraokeKarlton]

7. Actually he was an internist, and didn't deal with obstetrics

He did a rotation at Planned Parenthood but I don't believe it was for a considerable amount of time. All doctors need to do rotations in areas they aren't going to work in during their training. That's all this was. No, he didn't perform abortions. Internists don't do them.

[Jerseycoa]

31. Internists do do them

"Internists don't do them."

Abortions are performed by various medical providers, including internists. There's resistance among doctors to doing it now because of anti-choice politics, but family physicians, ob/gyns, surgeons, internists, pediatricians, nurse practitioners, physician assistants, and midwives, who are willing to do them do them.

Not to say ever Dean did, just better to take that out of your argument.

[REP]

8. He is Not an Obstetrician

and guess what - OBs DO perform abortions.

[Name removed]

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[REP]

27. Disengenuous to Point at Me for What You Are

Funny, too.

[Jerseycoa]

15. Obstetrician?

I believe he practiced as an internist, didn't he?

[Cheswick2.0]

32. wrong on one point and I am a Dean supporter

Ob-gyns are the very doctors who do perform abortions. I have no idea if Dean was/is an ob-gyn. PP does provide other services you know.

[Dr. Wu]

37. Planned Parenthood is the nation's largest abortion provider

so Dean's work for them could be a political liability.

Maybe that is why he said that people should stop voting based on abortion, God, gays and guns... Oops...

But I guess his Christmas "Came to Jesus" announcement was his way of asking people to vote for him based on God.

But I guess contradictions are just part of Dean.

[Cheswick2.0]

40. now that is just not true

Most Planned parenthood locations don't even provide abortions. But I wouldn't care if they did and I wouldn't care if Dean himself performed them...though that is doubtful considering he is not an Ob-gyn.
Now don't try to snow me on the subject of abortion Dr Wu. I know to much about the subject.

[Dr. Wu]

44. Most PP clinics in every big city provide abortions

I realize many small town PP clinics do not perform the service. I can think of several PP locations here in Michigan that do not perform abortions, but can think of many in metropolitan areas that do.

PP was the biggest loser when the feds and many states stopped paying for aboritons.

Is there another chain of abortion clinics that you know of that is larger than PP?

[REP]

45. "Chain of Abortion Clinics"?

PP is a chain? It does nothing but abortions? Please document these assertions.

[TLM]

3. No I do not think he did....

His internship was in an ER in the bronx.

Though he has said he did deal with a young girl who was seeking an abortion, and he thought her father may have been the one who got her pregnant, and he mentioned this in reference to problems he saw in forced parental notification laws.

But i do not think he ever worked at planed parenthood... though he may have worked with them when he was doing that free clinic stuff he and his wife did.

[REP]

6. Planned Parenthood Provides Health Care

It seems as though everyone has bought into the lie that Planned Parenthood is simply an "abortion mill" without bothering to find out just what they do. They providelow/no-cost health care to poor women, including prenatal care and some general medicine care. A poor woman can go to PP and get birth control as well as antibiotics if she needs them.

When Dr Dean chose to do part of his general medicine residency in PP, it demonstrated a willingness to provide healthcare in an unglamorous setting to patientsd who really needed as many doctors as possible in their communities. It wouldn't matter to me if he performed abortions or not, but he clearly did not, as he was an internal medicine resident, not a surgical or OB/GYN resident.

A doctor who actually provided health care to the poor. Yeah, that's gonna hurt.

[SahaleArm]

9. Probably handed out birth control pills...

and condoms. In the end it's pretty irrelevent.

[frustrated_lefty]

10. Bucky,

you may want to check this site out for reliable info: http://www.nwaforchange.org/nwa/downloads/Election_Guide/09dean.pdf

The National Women's Alliance, I think, will be on the ball and up to date with Dean's involvement with Planned Parenthood.

[madfloridian]

17. Good source. That is good he worked on their board.

This is just too much, he was a doctor, he had a right to practice as he wished. More rightwing talking points here.

[mermaid]

11. My Question: What Difference Does It Make?

First...in my experience, most ardent "pro lifers" (and I use that in quotes...I'll explain why in a sec) are Republicans not likely to vote for Dean, anyway.
I say "pro-lifers" in quotes, because most of the pro-lifers also favor the death penalty, and they are against gun control and nuclear weapons control...they are anti-environmentalist, etc.

Seems to me that, for pro-lifers, life begins at conception, and ends once one exits the womb...becuase they go out of their way to give life a giant middle finger in their every policy.

ANYWAY...that being said...what difference does it make if it is true or not? If the 'Pugs think it will stick, they will say it anyway. The truth doesn't mean much to 'Pugs, especially when an untruth gains political advantage for them.

They are not above lying to gain political advantage in the same way that the sea is not above the clouds. Case in point: Iraq. 'Nuff said!

I suspect all but the most stubborn Dems will eventually rally to whomever the Dem front-runner is this time out, and it appears, so far, that Dean is our guy. Just as well by me, since I was an early Dean supporter.

The point is...right now, the momentum among Dems is so adamantly anti-Bush, that we can use that! So many of us are just aching to kick Bush iout of the White House in 2004, that the only way we can fail is two ways...well, three...

1 - Anthoer EFFING Ralph Nader!
2 - A terrorist attack on our soil in the next year
3 - Dean screws up royally.

ok, four...

4 - if the 'Pugs really get a serious groundswell of support behind Shrub. I don't see that happenening...too many iscal conservo-creeps are P.O.'ed with Shrub and his spending, and may well elect to sit out the election. I know they aren't likely to vote for our guy.

The point is...we need to go all out to support our guy, whoever it may be. It may be that no election in U.S. history is as important as this one...and nothing more a national imperitive than getting the neo-cons out of office. If we fail in 2004, we might as well kiss ur country goodbye, because we won't even recognize it anymore by 2008...can you imaguine a Bush Administration that no longer has to worry about popular opinion, since re-election won't be an issue? (shudder)

I say if Shrub gets four more years, this place, this country we love...the United States...will begin to look eerily familiar to anyone who has read Orwell's 1984...to anyone who witnessed, or has read about 1930's Germany.

This country is headed downhill fast, and we are the only ones who can save it...PLEASE don't feed the 'Pugs!

[frustrated_lefty]

13. 1 - Another EFFING Ralph Nader

Now why did you have to bring Clark into it?

[mermaid]

14. Sorry.....

Didn't MEAN to give Wes Clark any free publicity...LOL

[jburton]

18. Here are some points:

This is not totally directed to the original post, but some of the thread responses as well.

1. Dean was on THE BOARD of VT Planned Parenthood. He didn't work there as a staffer nor as an intern. Besides, he's an Internist, not a Obstetritian/Gynocologist (OB/GYN).

2. Most Planned Parenthood clinics don't even offer abortion services, just counseling and routine GYN and public health services. (Like cancer screenings, birth control, STD/HIV tests, etc)

And (the fundies hate to admit this) affordable pre-natal care.

3. OB/GYN doctors do indeed perform abortions, in fact that's a component of GYN. What other doctor would perform them, a Podiatrist?

[frustrated_lefty]

19. affordable pre-natal care

More of this in 2004 please?

[jburton]

20. Not as long as Bush* is in the White House

Bush's "Gag Rule" prevents fed funding for non-abortion related health care at Planned Parenthood.

Why? Because they do, indeed, consider abortion an option.

[Scoopie]

21. QUESTION

Why does anyone who ISN'T a Dean fan have to temper themselves on this board?
No one here says... NOT A CLARK BASH... BUT...
Seriously, if you're listening to Gore... don't. I'm from Tennessee and we've learned to ignore him nicely. Mainly because, like Dean, he bashes our greatest president (in my lifetime).
Don't know what the question was... was bugged that you had to ask it in such a "walking on eggshells" manner.

[SahaleArm]

22. I can't answer that - It might offend someone ;) n/t

[frustrated_lefty]

23. Well,

maybe because most of the Dean fans got kicked from the board, all within a brief period of time? The non-Deanies are learning from our mistakes?

[SahaleArm]

24. Why did they kicked off? n/t

[eileen_d]

25. Really?

I thought a bunch of Dean people left because they were tired of attacks and/or criticism. (Hard to tell the difference these days)

[frustrated_lefty]

28. You're right,

we wimped out. I was too much of a puss to admit it.

[eileen_d]

29. No, that really isn't what I meant.

I think Dean is taking the most heat on DU, and I think if I supported Dean I would take an open-ended vacation from DU. So I certainly don't fault any Dean supporter for choosing to do this. In fact I've taken a couple myself for various reasons.

I do think that the line between "criticism" and "bashing" is pretty thin and wiggly for a lot of people, especially passionate supporters of *any* candidate.

Good night.

[frustrated_lefty]

30. Thank you for clarifying.

I mean that. May we meet again in better times.

[LuminousX]

34. You are correct

As the friction increased, many of us Dean supporters had to make the cost-benefit analysis of whether DU was helping or hurting Dean. The amount of energy it takes to defend against the same attacks day after day (I say attacks, anything that needs to be defended against is an attack. This isn't bad, I believe attacking is what election politics is about, so don't carp at me about whining. Oh, I still will call attacks against my candidate 'uncalled for' or 'unwarranted', it is part of the process - if I say an attack is warranted, that is like saying I walked up to a bully and straight out asked for him to give me a black eye) is energy that can't be used to talk about Dean with people in our real lives.

[edzontar]

36. Right--this has happened....

I know several people who have left or decided to take a break

I have obviously decided not to leave.

My concern is that this place not be so damaged that it wil be marginlized or weakened by the time the election comes around.

[LuminousX]

39. I've backed off my use of DU

and am waiting to see how it acts after the primary to see if it is worth my continued effort. Once it was a great source of political information , a true underground, fighting the fight against the GOP. Now, it seems it has lost its way.

[edzontar]

43. Hopefully this is temporary--a sign of the times...

We may need this place come the summer and fall....

[Cheswick2.0]

35. Gore bashes Bush, the greatest president in your lifetime?

Well of course Gore bashes Bush, don't we all?

[Jerseycoa]

38. I suspect he or she means Clinton nt

[Cheswick2.0]

42. well that makes even less sense. I have never heard Gore bash Clinton

that's just silliness.

[Cheswick2.0]

33. if you allow the republicans to frame the debate you will lose every time

who cares what they may or may not say. They will smear any candidate running and fear will not save us from that.
Buck up Bucky

[CWebster]

41. Like the way you slid this in

"Also, even though I'm very concerned about his lack of electability" while insisting your intent wasn't to bash...Try putting some energy into spreading the meme that Bush, the most pathetic occupier of the white house, who has done more damage to our country in every regard, is unelectible.