Dems are playing by Rove's rules and don't even know it.

[eccles12]

This election WILL NOT be about Iraq because Bush is not running and the people blame Bush, not the Republicans for Iraq. But this election will be about (1)immigration (2) gun control (3)jobs-wages and (4)abortion. Security will be 5th or 6th on the list as we near November...why, because most people think we are fairly safe since nothing has happened inside our borders since 9/11...and the Republicans keep reminding them of that.

Right now the Dems are being lulled into believing that the Iraq war and fight against terrorism is what most VOTERS will be thinking about. But that is not so. This is still a very racist, bigoted, elitist nation controlled by the corporate elite. They know the buttons to push to appeal to the so-called "heart land" creatures and I predict they will be pushing those buttons right after September the 12th with mounting visibility the closer we get to November. Once again it will be about FEAR. Not fear of war but fear of "THE OTHERS": the "others" who will be flooding across borders to take jobs from "decent" Americans, the "others" who will be burdening our social systems including our schools and health care systems; the "others" (Dems) who want to take away your guns so that you can't fight off those others creeping across our borders; those others who are depressing our wages and those others who do not respect life but whose low moral values allow them to favor killing innocent babies in the womb. I see it coming, good friends. I see the Dems not knowing what hit them once again. As Rove leads them to keep the dialog focused on Iraq and Iran and terrorism, the Republicans will be out and about in small focus groups, town meetings, and mass mailings that will highlight how the Republicans will protect the masses on those four top issues outlined above. And Dems will not be prepared to either pre-empt or fight back.

But if Dems are smart, they will be out there on September 13 with ads that will let the voters know what to expect from Republicans: more of the fear tactics, more of the smearing of Dem candidates as they did John Kerry, a decent honorable war veteran that they were led to think negatively about with lies and half-truths (Dems should remind the voters that they had a chance to elect Kerry but chose Bush). Dems need to explain to voters how the Republicans really use the illegal immigration issue to frighten them while not supporting any laws that clamp down on hiring of illegals because the Republicans really support the huge corporations, including corporate farms, that employ the illegals. I mean, there are a host of things the Dems could do to pre-empt and counter what the Republicans are planning to do but I really don't think the Dems are politically savvy enough to do it. They didn't do it when Kerry was attacked and they won't do it when they are attacked. And maybe that is a planned strategy for not winning in November. Let the bums clean up their own mess..maybe?

[JuniperLea]

1. Bullshit

Your top four are non-issues. They are strawmen thrown into the mix to get the bigots riled up. If 60% of the people believe the war is a miserable failure, then that is the issue to run on. You don't prop up non-issues and pander to the 30% backwash. Leave that to the Republicans.

The only way to battle the Repubs this election season is to speak the truth and to speak it loudly.

[AZBlue]

34. Non-issues?? Hardly.

Immigration - one of the hottest topics today, anywhere. No matter which side you are on or what you think about it, it's a hot button.

Jobs & wages - how lucky you must be for that to be a non-issue for you. However, remember the rest of us - for whom it is a VERY big issue. And, I for one, want to know exactly what the candidates propose to do about it - and I'm not alone.

Abortion - with the possibility of Roe v Wade being overturned in the near future, both state and national elections come very much into play on this topic.

Gun Control - ok, I'll give you that one to some extent. Not as big an issue as the above three or Iraq or terrorism. However, it's always been an easy lightening rod for the Repubicans to use against us, so it's worth some consideration.

I'd like to add a fifth: healthcare.

[JuniperLea]

37. At the risk of repeating myself, yes... non-issues

Just because something is a hot topic doesn't mean it should be.

If we don't put and end to the BushCo regime, we are going to loose it all and will most likely be under the rule of China because they own so much of us right now.

That being said, all those other issues are moot. They will be revisited by the new owner.

Perspective is everything.

[eccles12]

40. I'm not talking about what "should be" I am talking about what IS. nt

[JuniperLea]

41. So it doesn't matter to you that people waste their time on that drivel

In fact, you encourage it? Cripes. Talk about falling for the RWNut plan.

[lonehalf]

44. Wrong again!

Immigration is not an issue.

illegal immigration is.

[JuniperLea]

45. Not an issue

It's being made an issue by the RW... interesting how no one gave a tinker's damn until recently... you know, when there were far more important issues at hand that would make immigration, illegal or otherwise, a moot point. They have everyone chasing their tails over these and it doesn't matter. What matters is that BushCo is pissing the world off and the most highly pissed already have "the bomb"... what matters is that we have a horrendous debt that we cannot possibly pay and we could easily default... to the China and Saudi Arabia... they will be making immigration policy if we aren't careful.

[Kagemusha]

2. Iraq's not important to voters? Excuse me?

That's some heavy denial there.

[eccles12]

4. Iraq is important but not MORE important to voters than the issues that

strike close to home and pocketbook. I am not saying that Iraq is unimportant. I am saying that as we get nearer to November, the Iraq issue will become less important to VOTERS than several other issues. Please read with understanding and critical thinking. This is precisely why the Republicans can sway voters so much and Dems cannot.

[ComerPerro]

9. I think its a pretty realistic analysis

after all, even in the Presidential election, enough morons still voted for Bush to make the election seem legitimate to some people.

And Iraq was a main issue.

Some people (actually a suprisinly high amount of people) just don't give a fuck about the mess in Iraq, because they aren't there and never will be.


And, now, especially, this election won't be about Iraq. Why? Because Republicans have been distancing themselves from the president. They can say whatever they want about Iraq.

For example, "I don't agree with Bush's decision to just leave our guys there indefinately, but we can't just pull out right now like the Dems want to do".


Its not true, but that's what, if anything, many Republicans will say.

[grizmaster]

3. Iraq and the economy are by far the main election issues

and gun control and abortion are way down the list of voter priorities.

As for immigration, the repugs are so divided among themselves on the issue that they've already made sure there won't even be a House/Senate meeting on the issue.

[ComerPerro]

10. You really think so?

Most Americans don't give a fuck about Iraq, the death and mayhem going on there. They might say they do, but the truth is, they couldn't care less. They don't have kids there, they aren't there, so what the fuck do they care?

Especially when Republicans are distancing themselves from Bush, and saying stuff like "I'm more of an independent conservative", or in some cases not even using their party affiliation at all.

If the public actually gave a shit about Iraq, we wouldn't still be stuck there with no way out, and Bush wouldn't be president.

[grizmaster]

15. And what do you base these claims on?

Americans in poll after poll are saying that Iraq and the economy are their first two concerns. On what do you base your claim that that isn't true?

As to this- "If the public actually gave a shit about Iraq, we wouldn't still be stuck there with no way out, and Bush wouldn't be president."

bush at every turn has ignored the public, ignored the law, ignored the UN, and ignored common sense. What do you think the public could have done different to stop bush from invading Iraq?

[eccles12]

16. We ignore the power of racism at our own peril. Wait until after Nov.

and we will return to this discussion.

[goclark]

46. I totally agree with you

RACISM is the key, and until we admit it we are doomed.
In the end ~ it's all about RACISM

Why does any person in America have the nerve to still stick with Bush and his CONS?

1)BECAUSE they don't want "those people," those "BROWN/DARK people "taking over our world. We can not let " those people" scare us WHITE people so keep on voting for US and we will keep " those people" in their place.

2)BECAUSE " those brown Mexicans" are trying to come into OUR country without OUR permission. We must keep ourselves away from " those brown people" because they have the nerve to still respect the flag of "THEIR" country.

Then god damn it, why do we have St. Patrick's Day!!!That one is just a fine holiday and they can wave all the flags they want to because they are WHITE.

As Pat B. said the other day ~ "Put them all out of OUR country! This is OUR country."

Note: Do you think Pat was talking about America as the country that belonged to little Brown goclark? HELL NO!
Pat B. was sending the signals far and wide," VOTE for the Republicans and they will keep the BROWNS /BLACKS down.

3) KATRINA ~ need I say more!

[ComerPerro]

19. I base my claims on the last elections

And, trust me, if the public actually cared, and wasn't so complacent and cowed, then Bush would have to do something.

There is really no outrage out there right now, not enough to generate any real progress.

After the last six years, do you still believe that polls mean a damned thing?

[lyonn]

38. Some repubs may not give a damn about Iraq but

they do seem to realize that this terror issue and Iraq are intertwined and they have been lied to. They are beginning to understand that we are stretched thin in the military and if Iran becomes a bigger issue, or any other threatening country, that we do not have the military to back us up if needed. Money is now an issue, our country is in debt to nations like China. Interest rates are going up. Jobs continue to be lost and bush is having a hard time explaining his claim to job growth. Pell Grants diminishing. Health care a disaster. They understand wars cost money that could be used for others things.

The Iraq and terrorism issue are the biggies and Dems need to explained to the masses how bushco has lied and caused unnecessary fear. We are capable as a nation to control terrorist groups if intelligent people are in control. We have become a sick joke when it comes to defeating terrorism, we have been feeding them all the amo they need to recruit. Bushco has done precious little to close borders, watch incoming cargo, etc. The CIA appears to be cowed down by Cheney and have become yes men, intel is in the toilet thanks to this bunch. They have their own pipeline of itel don'tcha know. Secret stuff.

Think Katrina. Talk about a cluster fiasco (cleaned that one up) that should be right up front with all the complaints about this admin. That was a DISGRACE! AND STILL IS.

[MrModerate]

5. If we're smart, the election will be about . . .

1) Competence
2) Do-nothing Congressional Republicans
3) Responsibility of Bush-enablers for the quagmire in Iraq
4) Leave no millionaire behind
5) Crushing debt
6) Collapsing health system

In roughly that order . . .

[William769]

6. Bush is the poster child for this election,

doesn't matter if he's running or not! He is the pResident and their leader. Nuff said.

[MaineDem]

7. Iraq is the issue and it affects YOUR wallet

That's how I'd approach it. How much per day are we spending in iraq...how much have we cut from the taxes of the wealthiest while the average person pays for the war...how much is not being spent on education, healthcare, local homeland security...because of the enormous cost of the war that isn't getting us any closer to the person responsible for the attacks of 2001.

Why we aren't investing in new jobs to fight the dependence on foreign oil while oil prices are so high under an Administration of oilmen.

The Republicans have been in charge of the White House, the Senate, and the House. Democrats can't get anything on the agenda and it's time for a change.

[eccles12]

12. Iraq is not the main issue affecting your wallet but election of neocon

supporters is the main issue not only affecting your wallet but the lives of your children as they are marched off to fight more and more wars to support the neocon agenda. Understand what you are facing here. Just don't repeat slogans and hyperbole.

[MaineDem]

14. I don't think repeating "neocon" to most people will work

I stand by my post. With the iraq war polling negatively in the 60s it's not something Democrats should be quiet about. And I certainly don't think the Republicans want to be tied to it I can't imagine that repeatedly tying the GOP to the failed war is one of Rove's ideas.

[eccles12]

17. Of course just the word "neocon" won't work but that's precisely why

it is important to explain to voters what is actually going on and educate them about what really does serve their true interests instead of merely being led by Rove to talk about issues that strike a real chord with voters. If the neocon agends is never discussed in terms of how it truly affects and impacts on the issues of the economy, the deficit, wars, war profiteering, etc. the voters will be unable to make choices that really serve their intersts. It's not easy but it must be done if we are ever to defeat or change those in control now.

[AZBlue]

35. No, they shouldn't be quiet - but if it's the only thing they discuss,

we'll lose for sure. I think the financial aspects of the war are a great way to move those who may not be as angered by the other aspects of it (humanitarian, international relations, our own men and women over there dying and so on). But, it can't be the only thing that's discussed - the economy affects everyone except Bush's 1% - and they aren't the ones we're trying to reach anyway - so it's a great common denominator to use.

[enough already]

8. Nonsense

All we have to do is keep bashing Bush and we win.

[eccles12]

13. That, my friend, is exactly what Rove wants us to do. nt

[AZBlue]

36. Yeah...that really worked well in '04....

:sarcasm:

No, we need to offer an alternative - just being the anti-Bush is not enough.

[enough already]

42. We WON in '04

Bush stole the election, everyone knows that.

[onenote]

11. it varies from location to location

Iraq is a big issue in some parts of the country, but not in others. I was speaking with a former Hill staffer who is pretty well-tied in to repub congressional politics and she was expressing amazement herself at some polling information that suggested that "family values" is a bigger issue than Iraq in some parts of the Bible Belt. Personally, I'm not surprised at all. But in the Northeast and Midwest, Iraq is a big issue, along with the economy, and neither of those issues plays well for the repubs. Immigration: yeah, its an issue, but the repubs have so tied themselves in knots over it that its losing its punch as an election issue -- its not a "for or against" issue; everyone is for immigration reform, there is just disagreement on how to do it.

[eccles12]

23. Don't dispel this observation just because i made it. The evidence is out

there is people would just listen and learn instead of relying on what they WISH would happen.

[onenote]

29. I dispelled your observation based on its lack of merit, not because

you made it. I don't you from Adam. Which means that you are no different to me than anyone else who posts here. Sometimes I agree with what I see and sometimes I disagree. Its based on my view of the merits of the post, not the poster.

And its not a case of relying on what I wish would happen. Its a case of not agreeing with your analysis of the current political climate and of pointing out that your generalization may have some merit in some parts of the country, but not in others... particularly not in the areas that are most ripe for Democrats to make inroads.

[eccles12]

18. Ok, everyone who thinks my opinion is a crock, read DeepModem Mom

lates post about Colorado.

[Imagevision]

20. Dems win the House and Cheney & Bush are dead in the water!!

no more power, let the NEW investigations finally begin and bring back the freegin OVERSIGHT!!!!!

[eccles12]

21. You get nothing but agreement from me on this point.

But ensuring that the Dems win is the issue. My point is that the Dems might be surprised when they find a few of the key seats will return to Republicans just because of the immigration and gun issues.

[goclark]

47. They know that and that is why this election will have to be stolen

This is the last stand in America for the Greed/Power folks.

They must win this one, the must.

There are smart enough to have put all their Supremes in place and that may help them again.

[eccles12]

22. This is too important to drop folks. Only those who know the truth of

are working hard to make sure few people even think about things this way.

[PresidentWar]

24. I don't think the polls agree with you.....

and Rove's effectiveness is already in great doubt. I heard an interview on NPR today with a guy who's followed Roves career since the 70s, and this man stated quite clearly that the GOP ship has pretty much sailed from Rove's harbor. His word as "The ARchitect" is increasingly poison with each passing day, and the reason mostly? IRAQ.

IRAQ. IRAQ. IRAQ.

We need to keep pounding this issue because it IS "the" issue according to many polls, and this author's book Rove and his changing fortunes.

Sometimes, reality is obvious.

[eccles12]

25. Polls don't vote, people do. We shall see. I hope I am wrong big time!

[PresidentWar]

27. True - I just think you are misinterpreting Rove's modus operandi here

Misdirection, like the art of a good magician, certainly is a part of his arsenal but these days he slipped and he is covered in the stink of Iraq. A stink he can't shake nor divert attention from.

[eccles12]

31. I do believe that after November, Iraq will take its place at the top of

concerns once again. But from now until November, it will be immigration, gun control, abortion, Iraq.

[PresidentWar]

33. Don't forget the Lieberman Incident

The swift boot he got up his ass was really down to one issue - his support of the Iraq War. I believe his loss of the nomination was a bellweather on the prominence of the Iraq War as a voter issue, and one that cannot be ignored any longer by the timid leaders of the Democratic "opposition". We are speaking loud and clear on this. For that reason I believe the war should at least be in the four issues that you rate at the top - possibly in position number one.

[eccles12]

39. Only in NE. The south, mid-west and west see things a bit differently.

But look, I hope I am wrong. I just know how deep the racism thread runs in this country and the immigration issue is another side of the racism coin.

[snowbear]

26. espera.. zat you?

Sure sounds like you (

winky, winky, freeps R stinky )

[FrenchieCat]

28. Iraq along with terrorism/national security combined trumps

all other issues, with the economy following behind.

Democrats ignored the issue in 2004 until it was too late, which is why doofus is still holding our White House hostage.

The Congress is a rubberstamp congress and unless these elections are nationalized as a referandum on the leaders of this congress, the Bush Administration, then Democrats will not gain enough seats to become the majority.

The seats we need to win are located in districts currently held by Republicans, and winning some of those seats is the only way we can make gains. One thing that is steadily becoming a non-partisan issue is the War in Iraq, how it has been mishandled and how our treasures in lives and money has been ill spent, regardless of the fact as to why we went in, as this portion of the whole may still be measured on a partisan divide.

High Gasoline prices and rising interest rates, along with runaway Education and Health care prices are additional issues that hit folks close to home and will give incentives to those who are mostly apolitical independents but who vote, and who's vote tend to make a difference as to whom ends up representing them in congress.... in those districts that are neither hardent Republican or Democratic; the seats that we, Democrats need to win.

You can think that issues such as Abortion, immigration, gay marriage, and gun issues are important, however these are issues that we will not see great conversions from one view to another ...and therefore are moot isssues in assisting Democrats in winning election. The beliefs on these issues are so firmly rooted down deep, that nothing a Democrat running can say will somehow change the minds of those who consider these issues key to their voting; which is why Democrats will not gain if they concentrate on those particular "hot button" issues you have named.

In a nutshell; the job of Democrats running in "swingable" districts (which are the ones we need to win to gain back power) is to run on issues that there is the possibility of convertion from those who previously voted Republican but may now choose to vote Democratic. Those issues are easily identifiable as the War in Iraq, who can really keep them safe on the issue of National Security and the overall economy in how it has affected their pocketbooks. Everything else is bullshit.

If Democrats want to win, they are better off allowing Republicans to run on Abortion, immigration, gay marriage, and gun issues all on their lonesome...because it will only help show swing voters just how disconnected Republican candidates are to the true concerns of the constituents located in the districts in which they vote.

[benEzra]

48. The gun issue generally works the other way...

You can think that issues such as Abortion, immigration, gay marriage, and gun issues are important, however these are issues that we will not see great conversions from one view to another ...and therefore are moot isssues in assisting Democrats in winning election. The beliefs on these issues are so firmly rooted down deep, that nothing a Democrat running can say will somehow change the minds of those who consider these issues key to their voting; which is why Democrats will not gain if they concentrate on those particular "hot button" issues you have named.

The gun issue generally works the other way, e.g. a voter who agrees with a candidate on most issues will often not cast a vote, or will vote for the other guy, if said candidate also promises to confiscate half the guns in said voter's gun safe. Dropping the gun issue won't necessarily bring in any votes from gun-owning freepers, but it WILL bring in votes from gun-owning Dems and indies who might otherwise have left that part of the ballot blank, or held their nose and voted for the other guy.

More on the gun issue here: Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What?

[OzarkDem]

30. Here in Ohio Dems are running on the economy & jobs

something that isn't improving, affects voters personally and that the GOP has been a failure in addressing. Also health care, prescription drug costs, Social Security.

If Dems keep talking about the pocketbook issues at home, with the ones in DC banging the drum over the failed Iraq war and its costs to us - it will help.

[eccles12]

32. How is that playing out? Are people interested in this line? nt

[lonehalf]

43. Not in Georgia.

Our polls say that National Security is, has been, and will be the number one issue for Georgia voters.

[RBS]

49. This attitude is why we lose elections

First of all, every poll I see has those issues you mention WAY DOWN on people's priorities. This election is a referendum on Bush and his policies. Unlike other mid-term elections, and the old "politics is local" thinking, this year is different. We have only begun to scratch the surface of this movement to replace the "rubber stamp Republican" control of the House and Senate. Those that are concerned about gun-control, immigration, etc. that you mention are more likely to be disengaged from the process this year because their issues are not at the forefront. So a more likely scenario is that angry Dems and moderates will come out in record numbers to vote against the status quo while those that don't feel their issues are being addressed will stay home.

[derby378]

50. Think gun control is a non-issue? Think again

"I thought I was alone..."

This is a statement I hear over and over again from pro-gun Democrats who happen to run into me or the website I set up. The average Democratic legislator has no desire to take our guns away. But some do, and for the longest time they've spoken with the loudest voices.

There's a lot of differing voices on gun regulation here on DU. I accept that. Some of my best buddies here on DU are probably heavy gun-control advocates. And that's cool. But my voice deserves to be heard, too. And I want a Democratic sweep in November just like the rest of you.

That said, check out this website for starters:

Amendment II Democrats



"You're On Notice!"