Are We Actually Gonna See A Don't Vote For Kerry Movement?

[Stevendsmith]

Here at DU if he gets the nomination?

I mean, are you kidding?

[LynneSin]

1. I'll be fighting them all the way

I'm not a Kerry supporter, but I sure as hell don't want another 4 years of that idiot in the White House

[JuniorPlankton]

2. I do hope these disagreements will stop once the primaries are over.

[alittlelark]

46. I'm sure the argument will die down

But I really hope he does not get nominated. His S&B ties make me wary, as does the fact that he supports NAFTA. I met him in ABQ this summer by fluke when he did a fundraiser 2 houses down from my Dad's. Seemed a consummate politician, but nice.

I'll rock the vote for him if he gets the nomination, But I'm hoping for Clark or Edwards. Gave Dean $$ early in the campaign, but confederate flag comment turned me to Clark

[Eloriel]

78. Admin has said it would enforce a ban on

criticizing the nominee.

Won't change MY sentiments if the nominee isn't Dean, it'll just stop me from saying anything.

[Jack_Dawson]

3. I'd vote for Kerry

over Bush any day. I think what you're seeing is an "Insiders" vs. "Outsiders" thing here. Kerry/Edwards v. Clark/Dean. That kind of thing. It'll all come together after the convention.

[Uzybone]

20. Dean is no outsider

Governer for 12 years...has been DLC for almost that long. If he is an outsider then Bush was an outsider.

[GobGoober]

4. Under the rules I read, that is impossible

Once Kerry is the nominee, there will be no negative posts about Kerry tolerated on DU, at least that's the way I read the rules.

[zoeyfong]

29. wow. I hope not.

Intolerance of dissent is not something that makes any country or any party great. it would be nice if all democrats supported the nominee (if it's kerry i won't be supporting him) but to censor and silence those who don't is the wrong answer. Censorship is always presented as something done to 'help' people, and 'for the greater good;' it usually does more harm than good.

[blondeatlast]

47. Perhaps, as a new poster, you should READ the rules.

Look up censorship in the dictionary; it clearly doesn't apply to DYU.

Do you think supporting Dean (or whomever) will make you welcome at Freeperville?

READ THE RULES. Please.

[Tears4fear]

5. i hope so

Kucinich is the man for us in 2004. he will bring the tropos home immediatly and guide this coutnry to peace. if keryr is nominated iw ill wont like it but i will not start a dont vote for kerry movement cuz anyone but bush in 2004

[Stevendsmith]

7. I think you misread my post

I said will there be a movement to not vote for Kerry after he gets the nomination?

[ModerateMiddle]

16. maybe somewhere, but not here

It won't be permitted according to the rules of this forum.

[zoeyfong]

31. Can't speak for any 'movement,' but i won't vote for kerry.

It's time to stop patching the cracks and rebuild from the bottom up.

[alittlelark]

51. Are you serious? I do not understand....

"rebuild from the bottom up" I see only 2 choices that would come from that ideology (Given that only poss. nominees are Clark, Edwards, Kerry, at this point)

1- give * 4 more years to destroy the country while we work on a candidate for '08
2- Anarchist takeover of the United States

Gotta tell'ya I think I'd prefer #2

[displacedtexan]

6. It sure looks that way.

How many "I can't support Kerry," "Here's why you shouldn't vote for Kerry," or "I have a problem with Kerry" threads have been posted today alone?

Democrats vote for Democrats. Period.
I'd like to know how many DUers actually belong to the Democratic party.

[mot78]

ABK is just something borne out of frustration

Dean isn't doing well, and might drop out if he doesn't win Wisconsin, so obviously Dean supporters are getting angry, especially since it's Kerry that's the frontrunner.

[zoeyfong]

34. Uh, no. I could vote for Clark, Kucinich, or Sharpton. Not Kerry.

You may be unacquainted with something called principle (unless that principle is win at all costs), but some of us believe that once you knowingly support getting america into an unnecessary war because you don't want to lose an election, you lose the right to our votes for president of the US.

[alittlelark]

52. If all I had to eat was spinach

but I really, really, really didn't like spinach. I don't think I would choose starvation.

[Democrats unite]

9. Democrats don't vote for IWR!

The ones that did aren't Democrats in my book period!

[Monte Carlo]

59. They obviously did.

So you might want to re-work your definitions there, a little bit.

10. I belong to the Democratic party

got started working for McGovern in 72.
I'll vote for Kerry if he gets the nomination for sure.
But yes I have a problem with Kerry

[zoeyfong]

37. Yeah, and Americans support the President, period. NOT.

[THUNDER HANDS]

8. god I hope not

But I'm not worried. Once Kerry is the nominee I'm sure there will be a "speak no evil" policy instituted by the Admins. Anyone who can't, or doesn't want to, fall in line, won't be here.

[Carolina]

13. OMG, I hear ya

that sounds like the current regime in the Washington. Brook no dissent! I guess once Kerry's annointed, this becomes Undemocratic Underground.

Let's be careful that in our zeal to win, we don't become like the opposition.

[LizW]

15. Please say you're joking

I'm serious. You are kidding, right?

:wtf:

[seaglass]

23. During the 2002 elections no one was allowed to

encourage defeat of the Democratic candidate, I'm sure the rules for 2004 will be clear when we get closer to the nomination.

[blondeatlast]

49. They are crystal clear now. One cannot organize

against the Democrats using DU. I'm a Kucinich supporter myself, but any Dem'll do, even if I'm not thrilled. Whoever gets the nomination will get my support, financially and through hard to work to elect him.

[seaglass]

79. I know that. However it does not necessarily mean that

someone cannot post something negative against the nominee as long as they are not encouraging posters to vote for someone else.

When Kerry was running in 2002 there was a lot of negative S&B stuff that was allowed to stand.

I don't know if this will be allowed or not during the 2004 election once the nominee is chosen.

If it is, I don't see it as being much different than it is now.

[Atlant]

27. He's not joking. Those are the rules here.

(And I'll be among the missing, 'cause this here is one registered
Democrat and long-term contributor to Democratic candidates who
will not support Kerry in any way, not even to the small extent
of giving him my vote.)

Atlant

[deutsey]

18. "Anyone who can't, or doesn't want to, fall in line, won't be here"?

Off to re-education camps with us?

I know that's not what you're saying, but that's a creepy sentiment that you express, in my opinion.

The only line I'll fall into is the line at the polls on Election Day. I'll vote for Kerry then if he's the nominee, but I'll also offer justified critiques of him when I damn well please, just I would of any candidate.

I'll be among the first to leave DU if such a policy as you advocate here is implemented.

[cid]

22. Oh I see..kiss freedom of speech goodbye? sheesh

[stickdog]

11. No.

DU will just quickly die off along with the Democratic party's chances.

[JPJones]

12. I will work hard for the Democratic nominee

if it's Kerry or Cthulhu, I don't care. I'll vote for the lesser of two evils or the greater of two evils, as long as he/it is a Democrat.

What Bush has done in his first term in nothing compared to his plans for his second term.

[deutsey]

14. Not from me, but I admit I won't be voting for him with enthusiasm

.

[rucky]

17. Not here at DU, but the Media will form one.

n/t

[Atlant]

32. Truer words were never spoken. :-( (NT)

[Mairead]

56. Exactly! The media will form one.

They're good at propaganda.

[LuminousX]

19. It would be just as disgusting as the Stop Dean movement

[zoeyfong]

38. Not really, because 'Stop Dean' was all about electability, not principle.

[LuminousX]

44. No matter how you see it

Any effort to STOP a candidate is disgusting. If we can't find another person who gets more voters than Kerry, then why in heck would we want to hobble Kerry as he will be our only chance to oust Bush?

As per DU rules, once we have a candidate, there will be no bashing of that candidate. If you don't like it, there is always Yahoo discussion boards. It is a bit harsh, but it is the realization that our foe is not of our party, our foe is Bush and his minions. It is called ABB, pulling together for the team.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

21. I doubt that would be tolerated

The primary goal is for Bush to lose, not the Democratic nominee.

I can understand the disappointment some feel when their candidate doesn't do as well as expected. There can only be one winner so that leaves a lot of disappointed people. But I think most people understand the goal and will come around when the time to vote arrives. Those who don't, oh well.

The higher than expected voter turnout so far is a BIG plus for Democrats. I see an overwhelming desire by the public, and not just Democrats, to see that Bush does not get a second term. So I don't think a few people on DU refusing to vote for the Democratic nominee is going to make a bit of difference.

[Jacobin]

24. That would require no "movement". Just disgust

at what the system has coughed up in the way of a dem nominee.

[mikehiggins]

25. No way. Won't happen. If he's the nominee he gets our votes.

We may despise him but he gets our votes.

Anybody But Bush.

The nation will not survive another four years of this madness.

[Atlant]

30. You may speak for "we" but you don't speak for "me".

Kerry will NOT get my vote.

Atlant

[Stevendsmith]

36. I hope You Enjoy Four More Years of Bush

I we make it that far.

[Atlant]

39. I look forward to true reform of the Democratic Party.

And anyway, if Kerry's so popular, you won't need my vote to
topple Bush. Are you worried that Kerry won't win?

Atlant

[janx]

53. That's kind of the way I feel about it.

The Kerry/Gep landslide doesn't need my vote. They have the power.

[zoeyfong]

40. To be honest, I don't really care. I have hit rock bottom.

I have hit my rock bottom level of disgust with this country and the democratic party. Democrats have done nothing but enable the bush-led destruction of this country since Nov.2000, when most of them acted like they could care less if the Confederacy carried out a coup-d'etat against the US gov't.

[RetroLounge]

26. Movement? No...

But he cetrtainly will not see the Dean Supporter Fundraising abilities, or anything else.

He may get my vote. Maybe. Or I may stay home.

But I won't support him, talk him up to anyone, or do any work for him. He does not inspire. Gives no hope. Sounds like a loop track of political cliches. Bores me silly.

He may be better than bush*. But so is a tree stump.

[sleipnir]

33. Yep, that's my thoughts to a "T"

Thaks for posting, it's good to know others out there feel the way I do and actually do give a damn about the Party and getting rid of "business as usual." I'll probably write-in before I'd stay at home, no way I don't vote, if only in protest.

[edzontar]

50. I'm with you. I will vote for him. And that is pretty generous.

Besides, it was we Dean supporters who were the victims of an organized "Stop our Candidate" drive just a few short months ago, and our protestations fell on many deaf ears.

Please take that into consideration before addressing any more of these "unity" threads to us.

I was a major believer in and promoter of unity once upon a time, and it is in that spirit that I will cast my less than enthusiastic vote for Kerry if he is the nom. this fall.

But really, after all that has transpired, that is all you have a right to ask for or expect.

[janx]

54. "He may get my vote. Maybe. Or I may stay home."

This seems to be the general consensus of Dean supporters. I honestly don't know yet what I will do.

[Snivi Yllom]

62. you said it brother

He may be better than bush*. But so is a tree stump.

[HFishbine]

28. No

According to DU rules, there will be mo criticism of the nominee.

[maddezmom]

35. Not from me...ABB

[Zolok]

41. The short answer is yes

maybe not here in the DU but elsewhere most definitely.

It is well though to remember that at this stage of the game in 1932 that FDR was derided as a hopeless lightweight who "wouldn't change anything"....
Truman in february of 1948 was called every name in the book...
JFK had his pack of liberal critics as well...

www.chimesatmidnight.blogspot.com

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. I think some people won't vote for him no matter and we'll have to live

with that.

Skinner has stated the rules after the primary, but I have to consider that if half the board stopped supporting DU over Kerry's nomination, he'd probably reconsider as...reality is there are bills to pay.

I do KNOW that part of the reason I can't get behind some candidates is that they practice totalitarianism in their appeals to get their guy elected and totalitarianism scares me on either side of the spectrum (and I am FAR from a centrist).

[Monte Carlo]

43. So who are you gonna vote for? Can this person beat Bush in November?

Is Kerry REALLY so bad that you'd want to sit out the big fight or invest your vote in a 3rd party with an infinitesimal chance of winning? The Democratic Party has its problems, no doubt, but it's what we've got, and we've got to fix it from the inside, not lecture it from a distance. There are still some decent hard-working politicians out there, and if you take a good look at Sen. Kerry throughout his career, I think you'd get the impression that he's been one of the best allies we've had in the past 20 years.

[Nicholas_J]

55. Fact is

This polls in which they compare Bush and Kerry and you come up with Kerry beating Bush by as many as 7 points are not polls of just democrats. In those polls they are polling demcrats, republicans and independents. And among all of these groups, the only Democratic nominee who consistantly is seen either neck and neck with Bush, or giving him a rather large trouncing is Kerry. The nations is ready for someone other than Bush, but only if thay candidate is Kerry.

The polls taken of all voters do not show that the nations is willing to replace Bush with Dean or any of the other candidates. Only Kerry wins that contest, and every day he wins more and more of those contests without on other Democrat being consisdered capable of beating Bush and having the qualities needed to replace him.

[blondeatlast]

45. No, because the Mods and Admins will show them the door. It's stated VERY

clearly in the rules.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political organizing activity by supporters of any political party other than the Democratic party. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic party candidate.

[JNelson6563]

57. Exactly. You can only smear Dems in primary season

in GE season it's a no no.

Julie

[janx]

48. We Dean supporters are in a real quandary.

I don't know where you got the idea that anyone would create a "Stop Kerry" movement along the lines of the "Stop Dean" movement of some months ago...

But Dean supporters in general are a bit stymied of late.

I just really don't know what I'm going to do.

[IndianaGreen]

58. We will demonstrate against a President Kerry as we did against Bush

Electing Kerry won't change anything in terms of the issues we care about. Kerry will continue the war and the occupation of Iraq. Kerry will keep the bulk of the dictatorial PATRIOT Act. Kerry will continue to enable the occupation of Palestine. Kerry will pursue Plan Colombia. Kerry will try to topple Chavez in Venezuela. Kerry will continue the embargo and terrorist campaign against Cuba.

Electing Kerry won't change a thing, except the names of those that will profit at the expense of the people.

Rather than worrying about undemocratic loyalty oaths, we should redouble our efforts on those issues that we care about. I am convinced that by mid 2005, President Kerry will still have troops in Iraq and he will still be bombing Iraqis to force them to submit to American will-power. Kerry will also keep the Guantanamo concentration camp, as well as Guantanamo naval base (which was stolen from Cuba in the first place). Nothing will change!

MARCH 20, 2004

GLOBAL DAY OF ACTION on the FIRST ANNIVERSARY of the U.S. BOMBING and INVASION of IRAQ

Bring the troops home now!

End colonial occupation from Iraq to Palestine and everywhere!

Money for jobs, education, healthcare and housing - Not war!

Stop the attacks on civil rights and civil liberties!

Times Square in New York City, Dolores Park in San Francisco,
Hollywood and Vine in Los Angeles, Michigan & Pearson in Chicago,
and in cities across the U.S.

http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/m20/index.html

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

60. Got any facts to back up your scare tactics?

[IndianaGreen]

64. Kerry is not a reformer, he represents the status quo

We want to turn the country around. Kerry only offers a "compassionate" version of Bush's imperialist agenda.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

65. Gingrich was a reformer who wanted to turn the country around

I think there needs to be a change but I am SO FUCKING over totalitarian reformers...right or left.

[IndianaGreen]

68. Would you rather continue to occupy Iraq?

Because that's what you are going to get if you think Kerry is going to bring the troops home. Kerry is as much interested in the oil as Bush is.

Kerry will also try to topple Chavez in Venezuela. Kerry is as much a product of the ruling class as Bush, except for Bush's religious mumbo-jumbo.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

73. GOT ANY PROOF at all?

Really..any?

BTW..what are tomorrow night's lotto numbers..I'll split it with you if I win. Promise.

[IndianaGreen]

75. "What is Kerry's plan to win the peace in Iraq?"

How about having a draft, which is what is going to take if Kerry increases the size of the military to pursue a PNAC-lite foreign policy:

Kerry will also increase the size of the U.S. Army in order to meet the needs of a new century and the new global war on terror.

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/iraq/

[Monte Carlo]

61. Oh, yeah? Who's gonna listen?

Millions of people around the world massed together in demonstration against the Iraqi War. They didn't stop anything. How are these future marches going to keep the Republicans from doing it again? I've been trying to figure that out.

[IndianaGreen]

63. If you think electing Kerry is going to be a panacea, you are mistaken!

We are going to have to put Kerry's feet to the fire to keep him honest and to force him to get out of Iraq ASAP rather than adopt an Iraqi version of Vietnamization which will keep us there for years to come.

We will have to put pressure on Kerry to repeal PATRIOT outright rather than sugar coat it as he intends to do.

Winning the election is step one of a hundred steps.

[Monte Carlo]

66. Why would he ally himself with those who would so quickly abandon him?

What kind of friends are those who would mock him and chew him out in large groups in front of national news cameras? You'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[blondeatlast]

67. Of course he isn't (DK supporter here), but he's a damn sight better than

the Chicken in Chief.

Any Dem'll do on November 2.

[edzontar]

69. I will vote for Kerry, but will also protest his policies like the war

As the situation requires.

I protested against LBJ's war back in the day, and am damn proud to have done so, and would do again if Kerry leads us in a similar direction.

[alittlelark]

70. I marched the the three big protests in SF

I'll be there for the one you mention as well.

However I fervently disagree with your assessment of what Kerry will do. If you really have psychic powers, please tell me where I misplaced my opal ring.

I may not like Kerry as much as others, but I am a REALIST.

If Gore were president I do not believe we would be in Iraq now.
I also believe Sept 11 would have been 'just another day'.

Reality trumps ideology in this election

[janx]

72. I worry more that there will be no President Kerry.

Just four more years of Chimpy.

[corporatewhore]

71. you mean like multinational corporate execs for bush (or kerry)?

like the billionaires for bush (or gore)
edit- oh isee now here at du

[Monte Carlo]

74. Globalization is inevitable.

NAFTA, GATT, and the WTO may be fundamentally flawed, but they are at their original premise a very good idea. They are incomplete. At this point, it will be much easier to amend the current treaties than to throw them out and draw up new ones from stratch.

[IndianaGreen]

76. I don't think the people in the Third World wants to be our slaves

and they will fight back!

[corporatewhore]

77. excatly Can you say bolivia

Bolivia's Poor Proclaim Abiding Distrust of Globalization By LARRY ROHTER

Published: October 17, 2003 (NY TIMES)

A PAZ, Bolivia, Oct. 15 — The many Indian protesters who choked the streets and highways of this Andean nation again on Thursday may be poor and speak broken or accented Spanish, but they have a powerful message.
It is this: no to the export of gas and other natural resources; no to free trade with the United States; no to globalization in any form other than solidarity among the downtrodden peoples of the developing world.

The force of that message may yet topple President Gonzalo Sánchez de Lozada, who tried to quell the unrest by offering a package of concessions late Wednesday night that the protesters rejected.
Instead they vowed to continue with demonstrations meant to force his government to abandon a plan to export natural gas to the United States through a port in Chile. The protests have already left more than 80 people dead over the past month.

Sensing that public support for the president, weak to begin with, has all but vanished, opponents of the gas export plan have now moved to press their advantage.
"The blood that has been spilled is something sacred," Felipe Quispe, leader of the indigenous group that initiated the protests, said in response to Mr. Sánchez de Lozada's offer, made in a televised speech. "So we can't negotiate and we're not even going to talk."
Several thousand workers, mostly miners from the south and coca growers from the north, were reported to be marching on the capital Thursday. The armed forces demanded that they disperse, saying that the military would erect barricades to prevent them from entering La Paz, but the warning appeared to have gone unheeded.
More than merely threatening the longevity of Bolivia's government, the protesters have lent new energy to the discontent already percolating throughout the region.

Across South America, labor unions, student and civic groups and a new wave of leaders — Hugo Chávez in Venezuela, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva in Brazil, and Néstor Kirchner in Argentina — are expressing similar doubts about who actually benefits from a free flow of international trade and investment.
might i add kerry voted for trading with the andean nations he is partly responsible for this he sided with their fascist govt



http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/17/international/americas/17GLOB.html?8br

[Moderator]

80. Locking.......

1. If you start a thread in this forum, you must present your opinion in a manner that is not inflammatory, which respects differences in opinion, and which is likely to lead to respectful discussion rather than flaming. The moderators have the sole authority to decide whether a thread topic is inflammatory.


DU Moderator