I said it before and I'll say it again ........

[Stinky The Clown]

..... we got punk'd.

No matter *what* happens with this ABC 'errorism' with the airing of their crapumentary, they've already gotten what they wanted:

Bush/Republicans strong
Clinton/Democrats wussy weakings

I'm not sure the message will sell very well, or that anyone will really pay attention to the actual movie, but that's what the goal was.

They lied. They put it out there. The 'debate' starts. The shriek monkeys are well rehearsed. The media have their talking points. All without a whit of **obvious** direct Republican involvement (not obvious except for people who are paying attention - and that's not too many). They even have us defending the error-ridden 'offical' 9/11 Commission Report.

And we have ..... what, exactly? The truth? Who the fuck cares? By the time the truth gets out there - if it ever even does - the 06 elections are in the history books and no one gives a shit who was right in this latest flap.

Boycott. Who? Where's the critical mass? They have us flapping our arms and yelling till we're blue in the face. So what? How many would seriously participate? A couple hundred thousand. We're their 'dead-enders'. What we do doesn't matter to them at all.

Boycott Disney? How many of you spend actual money on Disney products? I mean money that matters. Don't rent a Touchstone movie? Don't buy a mouse doll?

Boycott ABC? Unless you're the proud babysitter of a Neilsen box, you got nothing.

Write to the sponsors?

The only victory - and one we can't even claim credit for - is Scholastic. They just were worried about their name and how it would play to Joey's or Brittany's mom.

We got punk'd. Its that simple. It doesn't matter if they show this crap movie or not. The plan was to get everything they really want up front. How much time railing/working against Disney or ABC or sponsors is time NOT spent on an 06 campaign?

Go ahead and flame me. It doesn't change anything.

We got punk'd.

Meanwhile ......... I'll be knocking on doors for the guy who'll be Maryland's next governor.

[katsy]

1. Yep.

Always the punkees... never the punkors.

:cry:

[BootinUp]

2. respectfully disagree.

Allowing the crapumentary to run unedited and without refutation would have bee a win for the replugicans. Every news report about the controversy lessens their victory to the point of making it a loss.

It becomes a loss for them and a win for us when it is seen that Clinton policies were based on common sense and Bushes are not.

Does the blow job hurt us? I don't know. I guess its time we do a better job of pointing out that it was the media and the Republcians that decided to tie up the country over a blow job.

[Stinky The Clown]

4. Jim, in addition to the revisionist history, they DO get to remind us

of the blowjob. The hatred for Clinton remains visceral to MANY in this country. A lot of fence sitters for whom the hatred may have grown a bit more sanguine will be energized by this.

We got punk'd.

[BootinUp]

6. Actually Bill is still popular

with the majority.

FUCK the evangelicals.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Sorry .... the blowjob still matters

..... I know some northeastern DEMOCRATS (mostly of 'Greatest Generation' age) who can't get past it. Moderate Republicans and independents are even more susceptible to this. Even for those grown sanguine and for whom Clinton looks better from a distance of time, this brings it all back up again.

Remember the meme: "Clinton was distracted by the Lewinsky affair" which underpins the whole movie.

[BootinUp]

8. And how does one refute that the democrats are weak on the WOT?

Let me know when you figure it out.

[Stinky The Clown]

9. The $64,000 question .......

Jim ..... they own the media, my friend.

[Totally Committed]

11. And, as long as they do....

"THE B-J" will be the ONLY campaign issue whenever Clinton (either one) is involved. I don't say it's fair, and I don't think it's right, but it is what is. It will explain every mistake ever made in this country -- right or wrong. It will keep costing us our credibility.

I do not want to be fighting about this every election into eternity. It needs to stop.

TC

[Totally Committed]

10. That b-j was the most expensive sexual trick in history...

It has already cost us 8 years of Bush in the WH, and I don't have to remind you what has transpired on his watch. America alsmot isn't America anymore, and the Democratic Party is one election away from obsolescence.

Stinky is right... "'Clinton was distracted by the Lewinsky affair' which underpins the whole movie." will forever be used against as an explanation for EVERYTHING.

TC

[BootinUp]

13. it also silences us from telling about who really failed us

thats not right, forget fair. It will have to be corrected at some point if this party is ever to clear its record on whether it did everything it could or not.

[Stinky The Clown]

16. We can 'clear the record' after we win.

But first we have to win.

A good start would be a counterkick in their balls. Get off this meme right now. Let it go. Start a NEW meme that WE control. SURELY there's some left wing dirty trickster out there who get a new debate started.

How about the fact they fucking LIED us into a war that no one wants any more? Why not pull some stunt that makes headlines connected to THAT little fact.

A kick in their balls, Jim. That's what we need.

"We can do it better" is a loser for us because it takes too long to prove. We need a new shiny thing that WE control.

I'm only half cycnical, elsewhere in this thread, to make some photoshop pictures of Bush porking Condi. It actually points up the fact that there was NO DEBATE in the inner circle. They had a war hardon and kept jerking it off. When Powell wasn't with them, Condi (Bush's reverse Mandingo-esque lover) was put in charge. Yeah, its terrible, its cynical and its a lie. Sorta. SO WHAT?

[lwcon]

21. If you put Bill Clinton up against Bush for election today...

Clinton would win in a landslide.

Not so likely of the Mrs., however, and I dearly hope she'll step aside and make way for a Gore/Feingold or Gore/Clark ticket, preferably the former.

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[lwcon]

15. Ditto n/t

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[question everything]

26. Many still miss Clinton, even Republicans

Read http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2820159

“This sounds kind of funny being a Republican, but I liked Bill Clinton. . . . Everybody I was working with was making money hand over fist, and ever since then we have not,” he said. “I'd almost vote for his wife, if she ran.”

[Totally Committed]

3. I agree...

We wuz punk'd.

And, I'm sick of it!

TC

[Stinky The Clown]

5. The ONLY effective counter to this is to get OUR side to get WAY

more tough than we've been willing to get so far. Challenging this only perpetuates THEIR frame and THEIR debate.

I don't give a shit what kind of terrible stunt we do, but that's the only counter.

Photoshop some pictures of bush porking Condi and put 'em out there. I don't GIVE A SHIT.

[Totally Committed]

12. Challenging this only perpetuates THEIR frame and THEIR debate.

True, true, true!

I don't give a shit what kind of terrible stunt we do, but that's the only counter.

Photoshop some pictures of bush porking Condi and put 'em out there. I don't GIVE A SHIT.

Boy, do I ever hear ya!

This miniseries thing has put me over-the-edge. I can't take much more of this!

TC

[lwcon]

14. Strongly disagree

Corporate America is terrified of the wrath of the Christian Right.

They aren't afraid of liberals.

Conservatives got "The Reagans" taken off the air. The position you espouse like tells us to be less noisy and less coordinated in delivering our message to Bush's enablers in the media. *That* makes us look weak.

Why should Conservatives be able to get the story about a dead President yanked off the air, and liberals are supposed to sit and say "I got punk'd" when an event that still defines American politics is sneakily reimagined?

I say: boycott.

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[Stinky The Clown]

17. The 'Religious Right' has no might.

They're a fictional construct. Oh sure, we have the religiously insane nutters and their handlers, but they're part and parcel of the RW machine.

How is 'corporate America' frightened of them? They're a fucking MINORITY. Maybe 20% on a good day. WE are the majority in this country. But the larger issue is, corporate America IS the government. It is corporate America who will be impeached.

[lwcon]

20. If only that were so

Indeed, they are a much smaller group then they or the MSM would have you believe, but they wield tremendous power in our country.

I'm about halfway through reading Jimmy Carter's book on "America's Moral Crisis," where the devout evangelical-Christian ex-President describes how the religious right is killing the country.

One good example of the power they yield is the way textbook publishers have watered down or eliminated material about evolution and have included material about the bullshit "Intelligent Design" theory.

We ignore the danger of these people at our own peril, and we can learn a lot from how they leverage their noisy voices to have power far beyond their numbers and the validity of their cause.

[Stinky The Clown]

22. I know what they appear to have done ......

..... but none of that woujld have happened were it not with the permission of the right wing powers that be. Consider all of that for what it is ..... a sop to a voting bloc that also forms the 'ground army' for the GOP power center. Consider those sorts of things as little more than the equivalent of a paycheck to the religiously insane to keep them working hard for their masters.

Just look at the links between the power brokers of the Talibornagains and the power seat of the GOP. Incest. The poster boy for this link is little Ralphie Reed, a protege of Karl Rove who was initially assigned not to the Republican Party, per se, but to marshall the religious nutters. Make no mistake, they control nothing. The RW power center controls them.

[lwcon]

23. I see it as a symbiotic relationship

The power brokers get the red-state votes by being blessed as The Official Party of Jesus, and the radical religious right gets its warped issues into the national agenda, such as rolling back science, attacking reproductive rights, gay bashing, and breaking down the separation of church and state.

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[Stinky The Clown]

24. Yeah .... pretty much .... except .....

.... they get nothing unless they put out for the RW.

I'm not sure 'symbiotic' is the right word .... but close enough.

[lwcon]

27. I agree with you re: the balance of power

The Christian Right doesn't have an alternative place to take its business. Even if Bush and Co. disappoint them, they're not going to get a better deal for their loony agenda.

But the CR does have its hooks pretty well into the GOP for now, given that the country is so evenly divided politically. The GOP can barely win elections even with their amazing array of dirty tricks, so until they've permanently established their hegemony even beyond what an eargerly subservient media does for them, they are very dependent on the activism of the CR.

I don't honestly know how crooked the voting machines are, but that's the scariest part of all, especially given "deliver the election for GWB" Diebold. If they are crooked, how will we ever prove and stop it?

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[lwcon]

28. Oh, and this is a pretty good example of that unholy relationship

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001491.php

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[Stinky The Clown]

29. That's one of end products of the American Christian Madrasas

They started with a shitload of Bob Jones and Liberty U grads going to law school. They want to graduate as many educated and deluded footsoldiers as possible, send them into the world where they can pass as normal, infiltrate our institutions and, as they say, transform things from the inside.

If that sounds like a takeover by a foreign power ....... it pretty much is.

[Tyo]

18. It's not all bad

A whole lot of folks ranging from people like us to famous historians to people who were actually there to the entire 9-11 Commission have risen up and called ABC/Disney on their crap. And it wasn't all just Democrats either. It might not be sufficient to get the job done but it was one more indication that we are finally starting to abandon our old doormat ways and it sure enough got their attention. Disney in particular is concerned almost to the point of obsession about its image and it can't be liking this one bit.

Since it's probably going to happen I think that the best thing we can do is capitalize on the publicity that's been generated and spend the post-broadcast week destroying the thing point by point in every newspaper, blog and in front of every TV camera we have access to. Shouldn't be hard since it sounds like a lot of key scenes are pretty much pure fiction. And while we have people's attention, why not use it as a lead in to driving home the truth about the five years that followed?

[Stinky The Clown]

19. We'll never have an unopposed teevee slot to argue this .....

.... and the shriek monkeys are very skilled at changing the debate or the direction of *any* encounter with anyone who takes our side.

No .... we need our own 'dirty' tricks squad.

[Cobalt-60]

25. If we can't get air time- Direct to DVD

When the Ayatollah Khomeini was against the Shah, they got the word out on hand smuggled cassette tapes.
With modern tech, there is no reason why we couldn't distribute DVDs far and wide, passed hand to hand, completely without the participation of the Fascist media.
It even works if they interrupt the internet.
Indeed, DVD duplication tech has reached the point where many people can dupe their copy several times in a chain reaction.