Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

WARRANTLESS SPYING ON AMERICANS???

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
LUHiWY Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 05:47 AM
Original message
WARRANTLESS SPYING ON AMERICANS???
http://action.aclu.org/site/PageServer?pagename=SpecterTop5


TOP FIVE THINGS SENATOR SPECTER WON’T TELL YOU ABOUT THE CHENEY-SPECTER BILL TO ALLOW WARRANTLESS SPYING ON AMERICANS

1. The Cheney-Specter bill makes following the protections in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act totally optional. The bill would change the law so that foreign intelligence surveillance of Americans could be conducted without following FISA’s requirement of individualized judicial review of wiretaps. The bill would change the law to allow the president to ignore FISA’s protections and unilaterally decide which Americans to wiretap, indefinitely and without any mandatory check to protect individual rights. The bill also gives President Bush support for his currently untenable argument that FISA does not apply in wartime by deleting the provisions saying FISA does apply in wartime. If the bill passes, presidents will have multiple avenues to circumvent the statute, rendering moot its protections for Americans’ civil liberties.

2. The Cheney-Specter bill does not require President Bush to get a warrant for every wiretap of every American currently subject to the NSA’s illegal warrantless wiretapping. President Bush’s so-called “concession” to submit a “program” to the FISA court to approve is not required by the bill—it’s conditional. Only if the bill passes exactly as it was written by the White House or with additional White House changes has President Bush “promised” that he will submit one of his secret surveillance programs to the FISA Court. Nothing in the bill requires him to do so, and the Cheney-Specter bill has stacked the deck so that the court will hear only the administration’s arguments and is directed to approve surveillance without ever knowing the name of every American wiretapped and any facts supporting such surveillance. Nothing in the bill requires any future president to get approval of programs of surveillance let alone actual warrants based on evidence a particular American is conspiring with al Qaeda.

3. The Cheney-Specter bill legalizes President Bush’s illegal spying although Congress doesn’t really know all that he has directed the NSA to do regarding people in the US. The bill rewrites FISA to legalize the surveillance President Bush is currently conducting in defiance of the law. Yet, the administration has stonewalled congressional attempts to learn the true scope and nature of all of the illegal surveillance the administration has secretly authorized. Specter, himself, has called President Bush’s NSA program illegal “on its face,” yet his bill provides statutory power to do more than the president has admitted and it expands the NSA’s power to search Americans’ calls, e-mails, and homes without any warrant under FISA.

4. The Cheney-Specter bill allows law enforcement to enter Americans’ homes and offices without a warrant. Landlords, custodians and “other people” would be required to let law enforcement officers to access Americans’ computers and telephones, and no warrant is required, simply government say-so—under the expanded powers in the bill. This measure flies in the face of the Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure.

5. The Specter bill does not enforce the Fourth Amendment’s requirement that no warrant shall issue but upon probable cause stating with particularity the things to be searched and seized. Specter’s bill so broadly redefines whom can be spied on without a warrant that countless Americans would be subject to secret NSA surveillance. All international phone calls and emails would be subject to warrantless surveillance under the bill’s changes to the law.

Plus, emails and other Internet traffic would be subject to monitoring if the government did not know the physical location of every recipient of an American’s email. Furthermore, the bill creates a new type of generalized surveillance power, which, while it requires court approval, does not require the government to identify each target in the US, the basis for such surveillance or the method of monitoring each American—wiretaps, bugging or other devices. Under this exceedingly low threshold, the NSA could win approval for conducting surveillance of countless Americans while keeping secret from the courts and Congress who is being monitored and even whether the spying approved actually helps protect against terrorism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. This is fucking unconstitutional, period.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. This is the dawning of a Busholini Police State.
The US Constitution will no longer apply to the US. The SC might as well retire.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. This is the dawning of a Busholini Police State.
The US Constitution will no longer apply to the US. The SC might as well retire.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cobalt-60 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
4. I can save them a little time
Edited on Thu Sep-14-06 06:24 AM by Cobalt-60
Now hear this, monitoring fascists.
You hate America and I'm going to dog you to your doom for it!
I think that makes my intentions clear enough.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
5. And to think I'm still paranoid about the afternoon
my garage doors started going up and down for no reason. (I live in a rural area, no other houses in sight.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
6. A very important post
along with attempts to legalize torture and the removal of habeus corpus which they are trying to get congress to go ahead and legalize. Of course, all of this is unconstitutional. Our country has to survive the latest attempts without the benefit of defeating proposals such as this through elections. These things are the determining factor whether I'll buy property in another country as a back door (as Chalmers Johnson suggested Americans ought to do).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
7. Even the name of the bill is evil
The Cheney Specter

oooooooohhhh gives me the creeps
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
8. Hey -- they "hate us for our freedom." Well, we no longer have freedom
so maybe "they" won't hate us!!

Wow...these guys are smart motherfuckers!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
9. The Constitution does NOT GRANT RIGHTS to citizens!
The Constitution places RESTRICTIONS ON GOVERNMENT.
There are NO SPECIAL circumstances or exceptions.

We "The People" hold the Constitution, not our Government.

When Government seeks to strike down these Constitutional restrictions, our democracy is threatened.

It is past time for torches and pitchforks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Good point!!!
We hold these truths to be self-evident

...means "requiring no proof or explanation." Therefore, there is no argument about rights; no trying to prove or explain their existence: they're there and that's that!

Notice how every amendment to the Constitution (except one) restricts what government can do? The only exception, the 18th Amendment (prohibition), attempted to restrict what the individual could do. And we saw how that one worked out! Notice the Constitutional amendments proposed by the neo-con fascists today? They restrict what the individual can do. The Repubs are attempting to use the Constitution for "behavior modification."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
11. I couldn't figure out which bill they're referring to.
S.3614
Title: A bill to provide comprehensive procedures for the adjudication of cases involving unprivileged combatants.

S.3001
Title: A bill to ensure that all electronic surveillance of United States persons for foreign intelligence purposes is conducted pursuant to individualized court-issued orders, to streamline the procedures of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, and for other purposes.

S.2453
Title: A bill to establish procedures for the review of electronic surveillance programs.

S.2369
Title: A bill to require a more reasonable period for delayed-notice search warrants, to provide enhanced judicial review of FISA orders and national security letters, to require an enhanced factual basis for a FISA order, and to create national security letter sunset provisions.

S.1389
Title: A bill to reauthorize and improve the USA PATRIOT Act.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC