Mass. Democrats Trying to Regain Control

[cal04]

Despite its reputation as a liberal Democratic bastion, Massachusetts has not elected a Democratic governor since 1986. Democrats believe that's all going to change this fall.

Deval Patrick, a former Clinton administration official, leads polls heading into Tuesday's statewide primary, although he faces a stout challenge from Chris Gabrieli, a Boston venture capitalist who has already spent $8 million in personal funds on his campaign.

Attorney General Tom Reilly, once the prohibitive favorite due to his law-and-order image and establishment support, has fallen to third in recent surveys.

Each of the Democrats has led Lt. Gov. Kerry Healey, a Republican hoping to become the state's first woman elected governor, in hypothetical general election matchups. If Patrick wins the primary and a general election matchup against Healey, he would not only become the first black elected governor of Massachusetts, but only the second in the nation.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/09/17/mass_democrats_trying_to_regain_control/

[Goldilocks]

1. If Mass has electronic voting machines, then Dems will not

regain control of the state. Same goes for any state with electronic voting machines. In case you are wondering what I am implying, I am implying that we no longer have a Democracy.

[longship]

2. Well, I don't know about that.

It takes a corrupt official to rig an election. The machines themselves don't rig elections.

Bill Galvin, MA Secy of State is a long-time Democrat. I presume that even though Diebold might be used in MA, the counting of the votes will be as accurate as they can be.

Many places where Repukes are in big trouble this election have Democrat officials in charge of the voting process, or have Republicans who take their job seriously. Just because an election *can* be rigged doesn't mean that it *will* be rigged.

[Goldilocks]

3. Cheating can occur even with honest officials. All that is needed is

a hackable voting machine. And if you have enough of those machines in one state, you can shave off enough points to make a big difference. Does the state have paperless machines? If so, there will be no recounts or evidence to prove whatever happens.

[skids]

4. Don't assume that. But we have a paper trail at least.

We have Diebold but it is older diebold, and opscan.

But do not assume for one instant that there isn't the possibility of fraud. There are definite power centers within the Democratic party here that can act very leibermanesque when the people get uppity and want more progressive candidates.

The legislature here makes a habit of ignoring ballot initiatives passed by popular vote, for example, even when they are supposed to be binding.

[Goldilocks]

5. Good! I am glad they have paper ballots. However, look how

useful paper ballots were in FL in 2000 and in Ohio in 2004. Because of court actions, they were never fully recounted. I think there are other cases where the paper ballots were not recounted despite voting irregularities (Mexico comes to mind, and maybe the San Diego Busby election?). There are many ways to cheat before, during and AFTER the election.

[longship]

7. I didn't say that there wasn't a possibility of fraud.

I said that the integrity of the vote is up to the people who administrate it and not necessarily the machines. There is *always* a possibility of fraud. But I really get sick and tired of people implying that merely because that possibility exists, that fraud must necessarily have taken place. That's a jump of logic I cannot abide by.

The most secure vote is one which has checks and balances on the process. These voting machines, by themselves, cannot initiate fraud, but they also cannot ensure a secure process. That is by far the largest mistake we've all made--allowing a machine to *replace* the secure processes and procedures. That alone is reason enough to get rid of them.

[MaineDem]

6. MA has Optical Scanners or Paper Ballots

I don't believe Diebold is used anywhere in the state. The Optical Scanners are manufactured by Optech, Optech Eagle, and Accuvote. Each city/town decides if they use OS or paper.