Bob Casey Tries To Close "God Gap." Dems Should Pay Attention

[JABBS]

Since the 2004 presidential election, in which voters who attend church weekly voted 2 to 1 for President Bush over Sen. John Kerry (D-MA), Democrats have sought to close what some call the "God gap."

Bob Casey Jr., increasingly looking like he will upset Sen. Rick Santorum to represent Pennsylvania, is one of several Democrats who are openly talking about "faith" and related issues. Consider him the poster child for closing the "gap."

Click here to read more on this topic, which will no doubt be important in the 2006 and 2008 elections.

[MaineDem]

1. There are many many Democrats who are people of faith

We cannot ignore them. We need to join them together to discuss ways in which the Democratic principles fit into their faith.

Making sure children don't go to bed hungry is a value-issue. Making sure people have adequate medical coverage is a value-issue. These are values that people of faith certainly believe in.

Not everyone who preaches religion (think GWB) is religious and not everyone who believes her/himself to be religious makes a big deal about it.

[skipos]

2. Like me

I think Dems need to focus on making sure the maximum amount of people understand and relate to their message. It doesn't involve changing the message or pandering at all.

[JABBS]

3. agreed

Casey makes some very good points.

[Ninja Jordan]

4. Probably 80% of Dems are people of faith

DU is not representative of the population as a whole. If it were, the Democratic Party would be controlled by Wiccans and atheists :P

[Crowdance]

5. Wiccans ARE people of faith.

It's possible that faith is different from yours, of course. It is their faith, all the same.

I'm certain you didn't intend to write a post that sounds so bigoted. You still have time to edit it.

[Ninja Jordan]

27. Hmmm

read my post again

[Crowdance]

35. I can see we're to expect many valuable posts from you

can't wait....:eyes:

[PassingFair]

31. Don't worry, Crowdance, the cryptic poster only APPEARED

to CRUELLY lump you in with
the vile realists.

:scared:

[Crowdance]

34. Not me...

I'm not Wiccan. My faith is so obscure it doesn't even have a name. I was much more comfortable with labels when I was a vile realist. Oh, wait, I still AM a vile realist.

In any case, I hate bigotry of any stripe, and that post was absolutely full of it in many regards.

[maxsolomon]

7. 80%? based on what study?

why didn't you use the BS generic factoid "90% of murkins believe in god"?

i was raised catholic, but i don't attend church, or believe in any organized religion that considers god an omnipotent, judging overseer. but i believe that there exists divine mystery, in the energy that animates string theory, or in the light in an alpine basin. to my knowledge, there is no church to attend for that. nor do i need one.

am i still a person of faith?

[JABBS]

9. actually

baylor university just put out a report that said that 89% of Americans associate themselves with religion, and of the remainder, two-thirds believe in God.

In other words, about 95% of Americans believe in God.

[maxsolomon]

11. baylor

nuff said

[Bill McBlueState]

16. not really

The Baylor survey showed that 95% of Americans answer "yes" to that question. It's not surprising that only 5% of Americans think of themselves as atheists. The label has been so heavily attacked that not many people are willing to adopt it.

But the survey also shows that people have vastly differing ideas of what it means to believe in God. For example, a sizeable portion of respondents believe something exists that can be called "God," but they aren't building their lives around that conviction. The survey authors called that a "distant" God, but these are the secular Americans; the ones who think a god probably exists but are also fully committed to religious liberty and a religiously neutral state. They don't identify as atheists, but they're on our side.

I actually like this survey, if you can't tell. :) It shows that when politicians clamor on about "people of faith," they're full of shit because there is no single body of beliefs that all, or even most, people of faith hold on to.

[maxsolomon]

21. link me

because the spin on this stat sickens me. just because someone does not totally dismiss the concept of the divine does not mean they believe in "god", which has very specific monotheistic implications in this country.

[Bill McBlueState]

24. here you go

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2006-09-11-religion-survey_x.htm

This article from USA Today is the first one I read about the survey. Some of the findings are more than upsetting (46% of all Americans say the federal government "should advocate Christian values"), but I think the survey is sound.

It's all in the spin, though. The survey says "92% say they believe in God, a higher power or a cosmic force..." but the report in the link implies that all 92% of those people just have different takes on monotheism.

Still, I think the real message is that there is no single American religion, that even the self-described Christians who make up the majority don't agree on much theologically or politically.

[maxsolomon]

25. thanks

did you know: a recent survey found that almost half of americans are below average in intelligence?

;-)

[LynneSin]

20. And me!! Christians are not the problem

the fundies that have hijacked our faith and turned it into something warped is the problem

[PurityOfEssence]

6. Our joyous future: Fascist Theocracy or a Kinder, Gentler Theocracy

People have crammed god into our politics like never before, and it's not gonna go away.

Somehow it's gotten into everybody's heads that we have to fight their god with our god. The problem is that even if we win, we'll be stuck with god at center stage of our political lives. Evoking god's support will be necessary for policies, and individuals who don't believe will simply not be full members of society.

I look forward to a future where fantasy and superstition are more important than logic and pluralism. Just can't wait.

[JABBS]

10. that's not the point made by casey

if anything, casey agrees with you. simply saying that one is religious doesn't mean anything if one supports cutting programs for women and children, or other measures that go against "social justice."

[PurityOfEssence]

29. That makes no sense

Let me reiterate: many on the left feel that we must use god-based arguments to counter the god-based arguments of the right. What that leaves us with is a newfound consensus that god-based arguments should be in politics. This is a giant leap over the line of secularism in politics, and will bathe the body politic in constant religion.

Don't believe? Well, you're just a serf or a guest here; REAL full citizens must believe.

There's nothing we can do about it as far as I can see, and somehow this point doesn't get through to you. Casey is injecting religious justifications into his rhetoric. Not only does this just increase the ambient chirping of constant religion, but it gets it into our consciousness that this is just hunky-dory. Give 'em a foot, and they'll take many, many miles. Put "In God We Trust" on coins with the excuse that it's just some form of "ceremonial deism", but it will be used as "proof" that there should be even more religion in government.

The future is looking increasingly primitive and superstitious, and giving guesses and prejudices equal footing with logic and facts is extremely dangerous. Giving religion the aristocratic dominance it demands is just plain crazy.

[blm]

8. Really? The 5million people whose votes WEREN'T counted were likely people

of faith - and likely Christians.

I don't believe people of faith voted substantially more for Bush than Kerry.

Add 5 million votes to Kerry's total and subtract the votes that switched from Kerry to Bush off Bush's total, and assess again how the voters voted.

[JABBS]

12. the reference to the 2/1 vote for Bush

... comes from the Washington Post.

[blm]

15. I know. But, to believe it I'd have to believe there was no election fraud

And I believe the evidence is compelling that there was MASSIVE election fraud.

[JABBS]

17. different topic

[blm]

18. Different topic based on the SAME bogus election numbers.

.

[Stinky The Clown]

13. Harold Ford's speeches and interviews are also freely peppered with ......

........ God references and seem (to my ungodly ear) sincere.

[JABBS]

14. barack obama

is also trying to close the "God gap," according to the WaPo.

[Bill McBlueState]

19. I don't like it when Democrats publically acknowledge a "god gap"

To publically acknowledge a "god gap" admits that maybe the Republicans were right all along; that Democrats are somehow hostile to religion and need to fix that problem.

But every single Democrat in Congress has a religion, and so do all the governors and state legislators. There are no openly atheist leaders in any branch of government. And Kerry takes his religion at least as seriously as Bush does. So we're just as religious a party as they are.

I think, instead of the mea culpa that we sometimes hear from folks like Obama, a better response is as follows: "People of faith can be found among Democrats and Republicans alike. And faith inspires many of us to work harder for a strong and fair country. But the Democratic Party values the protections laid out in the First Amendment: that no one religion is privileged in this country, and that people of all religions and people of no religion are equal under the law."

[ElboRuum]

22. The big Religious Fallacy...

If 95% of the people in this country believe in a god of some form...

And let's say that 50% of the country is Republican...

The fallacy is that a not insignificant percentage of "people of faith" are Democrats. It's numerically impossible for Democrats not to be well represented by people of faith. I'm surprised that it took THIS long for the Democrats to realize that they've got as much a right to appeal to god-fearing people as anyone else.

[enough already]

23. Oh Happy Day!

A bible-thumping, anti-choice "Democrat" in the Senate! I can hardly contain my excitement!

[JABBS]

26. is casey "bible thumping?"

that seems like a stereotype.

to me, it's healthy for democrats to talk about faith issues, because the right has hijacked the topic. to me, bible thumpers are the hypocrites who think that Jesus was an anti-Gay, anti-abortion American who would vote Republican if given the chance. (and please contribute $1,000 ...)

[Sapere aude]

28. Didn't we have this post this morning? Is this a dupe?

[Arugula Latte]

30. My favorite definition of faith:

"Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." -- Ambrose Bierce

[Sparkly]

32. Article: "Kerry Speaks about Faith, 'Godly Tasks'"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060919/ap_on_el_se/kerry_religion

[eridani]

33. FUCK the "God gap"! FUCK IT, I say!

What matters in politics is ethics. Like 'frinstance--it's just plain wrong to wage pre-emptive war against people who have never attacked you. Maybe you feel that way because Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers," or because ancient Jewish prophets advised beating swords into plowshares, or because the Prophet (PBUH) said that God does not like those who commit aggression, or because the Buddha told you to be compassionate, or because Confucius said that the superior man should exhaust all other means of solving disputes first. Or maybe you're just a hardcore materialist who thinks that mass murder is a really crappy way to spend the limited time of your one and only trip through life.

Who gives a flying fuck one way or another? The point is being on the same page ethically, not the various ways that we got there.