FLASHBACK: When Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) endorsed Bush in 2004

[zulchzulu]

It's nothing new that the recent Pope has put his foot in his mouth and overstepped his boundaries, namely with the recent statements about Islam and its inherent evil.

Pope Benedict, aka former Cardinal Ratzinger (and former Nazi youth), basically told Catholics they were not worthy to receive communion and could potentially go to Hell if they voted for John Kerry in 2004.

He had written a memo during the last part of the election cycle with the following:

Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion: General Principles

“A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favor of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.”

Not only was this unprecedented, but it should have made the Catholic Church be penalized and lose its 501(c) tax-free status for making obvious political endorsements during the election.

To say that you can't fully participate in a religious ceremony because you didn't vote for a lying, war-mongering, treasonous coward is surely a reason to investigate and make the appropriate justice happen.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0405112.htm

[blm]

1. Pope John Paul did try to stop this perception, but few in the media

gave the correction from the Pope any of the attention they gave Ratzi's decree.

[wicket]

2. It was Ratzinger who did that???

I had completely forgotten, thanks for the reminder.

[zulchzulu]

3. I wish the MSM would bring this subject up...

...but I'm not holding my breath...

[Totally Committed]

6. You, that was him....

He should be ashamed.

TC

[MH1]

4. Huh?

I always heard about this but had never looked up the full quote. Based on what you quoted, it sounds to me that the literal sense of it is not problematic - and is not what I have been led to believe was said. Of course, I am sure that it was repeated down the line in certain quarters, with certain emphasis and certain things out of context, to make it seem to say what has been accused.

Let's look at this closely:

“A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia.

What that says is: if a professed Catholic chooses to vote for candidate A because - primarily and "precisely" because - that person supports abortion or euthanasia rights, they're in trouble with the Catholic church.

But,

When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favor of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.”

So, the question is whether it is spelled out elsewhere that voting against "a lying, war-mongering, treasonous coward" would be a proportionate reason to justify voting for someone who also happens to support abortion and euthanasia rights?

Perhaps if I read the full text at the link I would find that was spelled out just so. I have heard that at my local Catholic church, the priest certainly implied that abortion outweighed almost everything else one could think of. I'm not sure it would outweigh lying us into war. Of course, I'm not Catholic, so I don't know what the official line is.

I just wanted to point out that the excerpt provided is not necessarily problematic in its literal sense. I certainly don't think that quote alone tells people they couldn't vote for Kerry - in fact it tells me that they could overlook Kerry's stance on abortion if there were sufficient other reasons to vote for him.

Sorry to be contrarian, but that's the way I see it.

[lvx35]

7. Oh yeah, your right.

I wish the pope had made that point more clearly, because I immediatly interpreted the words as endorsing Bush until I looked closer...I'll bet a lot of other people did too, (which would effect the election a great deal) whether that was his intent or not.

[karynnj]

12. I was told the same interpretation as you

by a kid attending a Jesuit college - It was a way to say that there you could vote for Kerry. The pope at that time was one of the strongest people saying the Iraq war was NOT a just war - a very strong comment to make.

As it countered a common view that you should vote based on position on abortion, it was PRO-Kerry, but in a quiet half-hearted way.

[cspanlovr]

5. The whole thing is very strange. You would think that leaders

would be very careful choosing their words, what with the world about to explode and all. :eyes:

[ProSense]

8. More...

Clash of Civilizations

The impact of the Pope's words will be felt much more broadly in the Muslim world than the manufactured furor over the Danish cartoons. Certainly the extremists in the Muslim world will take this opportunity to practice violence (in that they need very little excuse), but more importantly these words will have impact on the moderate and majority Muslim population. After the papacy of Pope John Paul II, during which he made great strides in bridging the gaps between the world's peoples, the Church under Pope Benedict XVI had already begun to pull back from such reconciliation. Pope John Paul II, who was the first Pope to set foot within a mosque, was revered and respected in the Muslim world as a man of God. Pope Benedict XVI was already viewed with suspicion in the Muslim world, even before Tuesday's speech, after he removed Archbishop Michael Fitzgerald from his post that promoted dialogue with other religions:

One of the first signs of a toughening of the Vatican's stance came with the removal from office of Archbishop Michael Fitzgerald.

The British-born cleric ran a Vatican department that promoted dialogue with other religions. A distinguished scholar on Arab affairs, he was an acknowledged expert on the Islamic world.

The decision by Benedict XVI to remove him from his post, and send him to Egypt as papal nuncio, was widely seen as a demotion.

Some wondered about the wisdom of the move.

more...

[fooj]

9. Don't forget that he pulled a "Dick Dastardly" trick on the Catholics...

Instead of choosing a new pope...HE CHOSE HIMSELF! That's the first connection I made with this evil maniacal cabal and the pope.

[texasleo]

10. Name another religion that reacts the same way?

[dalloway]

11. as a Catholic, I competely agree

I walked out of mass the Sunday after the election in tears over what the Church did in that election

[zulchzulu]

15. I went to a mass in St. Louis the Sunday before the election...

...and the pastor pretty much said for people to vote for Bush because of the abortion issue. I walked out to the amazement of my in-laws...who were "embarrassed that I would do such a thing..."

Creeps.

[CarlVK]

13. And some DUes still don't get why I distrust this guy

Well, QED.

[goclark]

14. Who remembers that Bush took a trip to Italy

right before the Pope was selected and he had a secret meeting with the cardinals?

Did I have a nightmare, I clearly remember reading that and realizing the fix was in.

I also remember that I was not shocked ONE BIT when they announced his "selection."