Rangel, Pelosi speak for me

[wyldwolf]

One of President George W. Bush's fiercest political opponents at home took his side on Thursday, calling Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez a "thug" for his remark that Bush is like the devil.

"Hugo Chavez fancies himself a modern day Simon Bolivar but all he is an everyday thug," House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi said at a news conference, referring to Chavez' comments in a U.N. General Assembly speech on Wednesday.

http://reuters.myway.com/article/20060921/2006-09-21T164325Z_01_N21334844_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-VENEZUELA-USA-SPAT-DC.html

RANGEL: AN ATTACK ON BUSH IS AN ATTACK ON ALL AMERICANS... 'You do not come into my country, my congressional district, and you do not condemn my president. If there is any criticism of President Bush, it should be restricted to Americans, whether they voted for him or not. I just want to make it abundantly clear to Hugo Chavez or any other president, do not come to the United States and think because we have problems with our president that any foreigner can come to our country and not think that Americans do not feel offended when you offend our Chief of State'...

-------------------------------

Sorry. I have to agree.

[William769]

1. They speak for me also.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

2. An everyday thug?

Ummm.. okay.

Sorry. I have to disagree. (Well, about that statement in particular.)

This is a funny debate though..

Democrats: "Bush is not the devil."

Republicans: "See? Even Democrats think Bush isn't the devil. Vote Republican!"

[midnight]

41. I agree with you. Republicans will use this info. in just the way

you interpreted their response. Can't you just hear them...Why would Charlie Rangle,or any other Democratic not be speaking loudly about Diebold. What is going on?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. Chavez speaks for me.

:thumbsup:

[katinmn]

46. Me too. Wish we had a leader like him.

:)

[murdoch]

69. As a worker, me too

Chavez was born into the working class, and is on the side of working people. Bush was born a rich heir, and has been a parasite on working people his whole life. So Chavez is the one on my side, not Bush. What do I have in common with Bush, some lines on a map say I was born in the same country as him? This means nothing to me. And if it means something to Bush, he's certainly never shown it.

[ThomCat]

4. I disagree.

And the UN is certainly the place where world leaders should be allowed to speak of other world leaders.

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. I agree with you there. If ** can call out bad guys, why can't anyone else

[NeedleCast]

118. Reverse Thinking

We say that Bush is a (insert derogatory statement of your choice here) for bullying other nations or being completely inept at politics or making antagonistic remarks (axis of evil, come get some, et. al.) yet we champion a man who does the same thing?

Why is it okay for Chavez to use antagonistic rhetoric but not Bush? If acting like an antagonistic prick is not okay for Bush, it's not okay for Chavez either.

[Dora]

8. I agree with you.

Though Chavez's name-calling was indelicate, his criticism of Bush was not meritless.

[otohara]

21. Exactly

and the UN is considered internationally territory!

Somebody give me a flag so I can burn it! I need to remind myself I still live in the United States of America!

[hurricaneric]

154. What worries me ...

is that since Bush took office, European good will for America has dropped from 2/3 to 1/3. At the same time leaders such as Chavez are publicly denouncing the Prez on the World stage. Although I tend to think Chavez has a point (obviously many other did too, he received applause) it is generally bad for all of us.

[Adelante]

5. I agree

Charlie's response is correct and it would be correct in Caracas if a visiting head of state insulted Chavez there.

Otherwise, I wish Hugo had stayed in "Latest Breaking News" where he was relatively quiet ;)

[ThomCat]

13. But Chavez wasn't technically in New York.

He was in the UN, which is international neutral ground. So it's not a valid comparison.

[Adelante]

16. Had the UN been in Caracas

Then.

[arcane1]

6. "If there is any criticism of President Bush..."

"it should be restricted to Americans"

what a load of horse-shit :eyes:

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. Yes, indeed.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. And what's with this...

"if" and "any" bullshit?

[otohara]

27. Bush Has Used Every Platform in The World to Bash

other countries and their leaders. Bush has tortured, occupied, invaded, thrown leaders out office in US sponsored coups and God forbid someone says it's wrong and behaves like he's the leader of the world.

Chavez apparently didn't like his US sponsored day long coup much!

[BootinUp]

10. Me too.

[wagthedogwar]

18. Perhaps Chavez should learn ballroom dancing or golf

I guess people just become plain rude when you try to overthrow them.

Why is that?

hmmmmmm

I mean really, just attempting to overthrow freely elected heads of state is still no excuse for bad manners. Priorities people!

[BootinUp]

22. He suffers from two things

a little paranoia and I am sure plenty of constituents that really would like to see him overthrown. See, thats the advantage of our system, you know its going to be around come the next election. Wackos like Chavez come and go all the time. People who associate with him aren't going to be taken too seriously outside the scope of his control either.

The U.S., 230 years and still going.

[Ken Burch]

160. "He suffers from two things...

a little paranoia and I am sure plenty of constituents that really would like to see him overthrown..."

Er, could you clarify exactly WHICH head of state you were talking about there?

[ShortnFiery]

12. If this is what they consider supporting their constituents and The People

of America, it's UNSAT.

Charlie and Nancy need to take the pulse of the non-investor class Americans. In the mean time I just wish they would STFU. :thumbsdown:

[Laughing Mirror]

14. An attack on Bush is not an attack on all Americans, Rangel

Bush does not represent you and me and he is not my America. And while I am not all Americans, I am one of them, and the place is supposed to be a democracy. I guess it is not.

I won't even bother to comment on Pelosi's attack on Chávez.

[wakeme2008]

15. Hugo Chavez speaks for me

Bush lovers should exit stage right...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. ...

:thumbsup:

[wagthedogwar]

20. Thank god our President would never do anything rude!

<----------------------------

[chill_wind]

29. Like call them both (and a majority of IR critics) "Hitler Appeasers".

What more insult and domestic thuggery WILL it take to make these Congressional Dems quit sniffing Bush's anus?

[AZBlue]

65. Ever heard two wrongs don't make a right? Except in this case,

it has made two idiots.

[chill_wind]

19. I wish to Hell they would speak on something that REALLY MATTERS.

Something critical, urgent and pressing.

I wish to Hell they would MOST DO THE JOB we elect and pay them to do.

Get off your self-preserving arses, Pelosi and Rangel!!

Dems sit out detainee debate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2522725

[Hell Hath No Fury]

32. "Dems sit out detainee debate."

And that is unconscionable!

I have been pretty damn disgusted with our Dem leaders over the past 6 years, but never quite as much as this.

Sitting on the sidelines, watching the catfight, is how reid described it.

FUCK'EM if they can't stand up to Bush on this repugnant legislation.

[chill_wind]

45. And this just in. Have you SEEN this!? (re: War Crimes Protection Act)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2190505


I wish Pelosi and Rangel would **SPEAK UP** just as eagerly FOR THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

48. I just faxed this to Pelosi a few monites ago...

Ms. Pelosi:

I have just read that you called the democratically elected leader of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez, an "everyday thug" because of his remarks before the UN body. This remark of yours at a time when Democrats are simply sitting on the sidelines, watching the GOP "catfight" over the repugnant legislation that would absolve the Bush Administration of the crimes committed against detainees and would twist the Geneva Conventions galls me to no end.

Having voted for you every time you have run for office, I feel I have the right to ask this:

Just when the HELL are you and the other Democrats in going to start acting like real leaders?

You sure are quick to label Chavez a "thug", but when it comes time to criticize in such plain and straightforward language the REAL thug, George W. Bush, you and the majority of the Democrats tip toe around, afraid of your own shadows and of how Karl Rove may try to spin your words and actions.

GROW A DAMN SPINE.

I want LEADERS who are fearless in the pursuit of moral truth and the protection of our country and the United States Constitution. If you can't find that moral and political strength within you to do what needs doing, then move the hell over and let someone who DOES have the job.

Chavez was wrong when he called George W. Bush the Devil (we all know Dick Cheney is the real Devil), but the fact that his comments were received enthusiastically and applauded by the UN body, tells you just how much damage the Bush Administration has done to our country.

I wish I would see as much righteous indignation for you on THAT matter, as your vitriol for Chavez.

Hell Hath No Fury
San Francisco

[chill_wind]

51. Applause! You should make this a whole DU thread/journal post all unto

itself. HHNF--- You are awesome!!

[ProudDad]

85. WAY TO GO Hell!!!

Pelosi needs to grow a damn spine!

[EnviroBat]

103. That was AWESOME!

I'm feeling soooo fed up this morning, your fax energized me. This fight is about to go to the streets!

[IndianaGreen]

109. Great post and it should have its own thread

to counter all the Bush defenders on this board.

[Cha]

132. Right fucking On! HHNF!

THank you for writing that letter to the name calling Miss Pelosi. Calling Chavez a name for calling bush a name.. :+

[citizen snips]

148. Good post

:thumbsup:

[TankLV]

150. Here here! Bravo!

Well said.

[NotGivingUp]

152. Very cool!

[Moochy]

56. agreed 100%

Our rights are being pissed away while democrats avoid votes in the senate, and defend the president's honor against the boogieman of the month.

Did we place all our hopes with those republican rebels? because they just gave in to white house today.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

23. But of course they do....

I would have keeled over dead if you had said anything else. :eyes:

[acmejack]

24. I suggest we can find thugs much closer to home.

It is a diplomatic mission. Neutral ground, foreign leaders can speak their minds there, whether we like what they have to say or not. Perhaps Mr. Bush and his cohorts have offended the majority of the world, but we Americans just don't give a shit. Perhaps that is our problem. I was able to figure out in the early seventies why the rest of the world wanted the arrogant Yankees to go home!

We really are not that much better than everyone else on this planet, whether we think we are or not. The sooner we figure that out, the sooner we can address why we are the most despised people on the face of the planet. I personally don't enjoy the feeling, do you? I don't want to defend Mr. Bush, I cannot defend the man, and I will not defend him.

We can't even figure out what the Geneva Conventions mean anymore. But we will call other people common thugs?

[atreides1]

25. I Disagree

The United Nations is considered to be international territory, not US soil, maybe someone needs to remind both Rangel and Pelosi of this.

Just like the US Embassy in a foreign country is considered to be US Territory.

Chavez attacked Bush directly, the same way that Bush has attacked other world leaders, he didn't attack you, me, Rangel or Pelosi.

Besides, people here have been attacking Bush for some years now, let's not be hypocrites just because the head of another country does it, where's that high regard for "Free Speech" I keep hearing about at DU? Or does that concept only apply to Americans?

[Adelante]

49. Cooper Union is not international territory

A church in Harlem is not international territory, either.

[wyldwolf]

26. Brian Schweitzer speaks for me

"Hugo Chavez. The Saudi royal family … the leaders in Iran... rats, crooks, dictators..."

Brian Schweitzer on 60 Minutes 23 Feb 2006.

[wyldwolf]

30. Bill Clinton speaks for me

"I think Chavez would be much more effective if he would say something that's true," Mr. Clinton said on CNN. "You know, to me, that would be a much cleverer thing for him to do, where he'd really be doing something good, and he could say, 'I disagree with President Bush,' instead of calling him the devil."

[BootinUp]

34. But the partisans need the Red meat wyldwolf.

Apparently they need it right up to the election, no matter what the majority of the country feels about politics.

how about that Red Meat?

[Ken Burch]

157. What did he say that WASN'T true?

He's always been right about Bush's intentions in Latin America and the world. The whole US policy in Latin America since the Monroe Doctrine has been about nothing but taking the side of the rich against the poor. That's what supporting "free trade" means...abandoning all who aren't rich to continued misery.

Give me one good reason why Democrats or any other decent human beings should support the US status quo on Latin America.

It's time we backed the interests of the majority of the people on the Earth...Not the elite minority who will all eventually be overthrown.

Bobby Kennedy got it. Why don't you?

[NYCGirl]

33. Schweitzer is great. I think we're going to hear a lot more from him. NT

[fudge stripe cookays]

144. Loves me some Schweitzer.

Everytime I hear him speak I'm a little more impressed. He is thinking years down the road to stuff other people aren't even contemplating yet--

like how the melting of the glaciers in Glacier National Park will eventually mean rivers originating from there will dry up. that means people downstream who depend on those rivers for hydroelectric power are going to be SOL.

He seems perfectly happy in Montana though. Has no desire to go to DC permanently. Wish he could be convinced that we need someone like that who can appeal to the sportsmen and let them know we're not taking their guns away.

[AtomicKitten]

28. I must admit if I had a crap to give about what Chavez said,

I still wouldn't give it.

What fascinates me is the spastic positioning of political figures in its wake. Republics are trying to make the Dems pay politically for Chavez's comment and, as a result, Dems are furiously tap-dancing to denounce Chavez's words.

It's all bullshit IMO. Reindeer games. Feh.

[Totally Committed]

47. But, the Democrats fall for it EVERY SINGLE TIME....

hook, line, and sinker. Every. Single. Time.

Do we ever learn? Doesn't seem so.

Do we ever strategize... look for a way to spin it like the Republicans do? Nah... this gutless appeasement is a lot easier. It's doesn't involve thinking or courage, just effing knee-pads.

I am sick of this.

Chavez is NOT a DEMOCRAT, fercripessake! If a world leadser had said the same sh*t about Clinton, do you honestly think the Republicans would be out there falling all over themselves to defend HIM?????

HELL EFFING NO WAY!

I am. I am absolutely sick of this. This gutlessness... this appeasement... I am tired of us being the whipping boys, and acting like we deserve it.

I repeat: CHAVEZ IS NOT A DEMOCRAT. Why are we ALLOWING them to make us beg forgiveness for what he said? It makes me want to just S C R E A M ! ! !

TC

[AtomicKitten]

54. yep

If the Dems were smart, they would point out that this is the candid, world consensus brought on by the hubris of this administration's words and actions.

WWWD? * what would wingnuts do *
If this occurred in the 1990s, the wingnuts would stand right behind Chavez's comments if they were against Clinton. Why are Dems expected to do the right thing and act like grown-ups when the wingnuts are free to continue their campaign of trash and burn? Why? Because they are whiny bitches and we let them get away with it.

[Totally Committed]

61. This is the ultimate in wisdom:

If the Dems were smart, they would point out that this is the candid, world consensus brought on by the hubris of this administration's words and actions.

I couldn't agree more! But, no........ They're on their knees again, sticking up for their abusers.

It is the ultimate in



TC

[Moochy]

55. Furious Tap Dancing!

Nice imagery!

"... Speaks for me" look at him go!

[EarthNeedsHope]

31. Chavez (a leader actually capable of action) speaks for me

nt

[Nite Owl]

35. Not for me.

* lost any right to expect all Americans to stand undivided behind him when all he says is about the politics of division. When anyone who disagrees with him is aiding terroists, is a traitor he lost his right to have those of who disagree come to his aid. It's the outcome of his acts, his speech. It's sad that Chavez was able to say that in front of a world body. How low America has gone, we have lost respect, it's sad and it's embarassing.

[rinsd]

36. They speak for me too, along with the Big Dog!

[Kota]

37. Because we have problems with our president. Made my day

when I heard Rangel say that.

[Leilani]

38. I agree too!

Rangel & Pelosi have elections to win.

To let this entire debate become a Chavez vs Bush issue is political suicide.

[Zynx]

39. I agree. It is in bad form for leaders of countries to do this to other

leaders. I hate it when Bush does it with Iran and Venezuela and I hate it when other leaders come here and do the same.

[dpbrown]

40. Rangel said it better than Pelosi

Chavez is an elected and re-elected President who has already been targeted at least once by the Bush CIA.

[springhill]

93. Both statements were disgusting.

[gully]

42. Chaves speaks for more I would imagine?

Though, I respect the right for Rangel and Pelosi to form their own opinion on this.

[wagthedogwar]

43. out of control freak out spin of desperate people

Hey, Saddam tried to kill Bush's daddy and he invaded Iraq, killed his sons and destroyed his country

Bush tried to kill Chavez so Chavez called him a name (devil)

--you balance it out and let me know what you end up with--

[katinmn]

44. Pelosi is a thug for calling Chavez a thug.

Chavez speaks the truth. You might read his entire speech.

OTOH, the truth about America and its leaders might hurt too much.

[mikelgb]

50. DO NOT REPRESENT MY COUNTRY

BY CONDEMNING FREE SPEECH.

I'd like to see an actual rebuttal to his assertions including the * is the Devil....

[Telly Savalas]

76. Not that I agree with Rangel's statements

but aren't you "CONDEMNING FREE SPEECH" by telling Rangel what he can and can't say?

[mikelgb]

116. no

I am condemning his representation of this country by admonishing someone for speaking and stating that they don't have the right to do so in America.

[Pharaoh]

52. Bush is what was represented

Chavez is a man of the working class, and Bush represents the corporate weathy elite.............

I don't have a problem with that.........

[ShortnFiery]

53. USA Representation = Corporate Wealthy Elite ... n/t.

[Moochy]

57. Admit it you are not sorry

You are simply tickled pink to be that rebel, the true patriots around here who wrap themselves in the US flag and defend the president against Chavez. :patriot: :puke:

[Snivi Yllom]

58. you can go too far attacking your opponents

Chavez stepped waaaaaaaay over the line.

Plus, that kind of bombastic hate speech is not appropriate at the UN. It's downright infantile, pathetic, and insulting to the entire world.

[saracat]

82. You can't go too far in attacking Bush. Chavez didn't go far enough!

[bling bling]

92. I agree with you on this. You really can't go too far.

I don't think it's possible for someone to go too far with Bush either. There's pretty much nothing that someone could do or say about him that would appaul me, offend me, or upset me in the least. The man is, in my opinion, as dangerous or more dangerous to the well-being of this country as any terrorist. For that matter, he's more dangerous to the well-being of the rest of the world as any terrorist. He makes us all unsafe. It's the whole world vs. this man but because of protocol and "professionalism" we all stand idly by minding our manners while he destroys us. It's really pathetic IMO that the Dems jump all over themselves to defend the most disgusting pig the world has known in decades. "ooooohhhhh noooooooo, someone called him a name, how awful."

I guess Chavez could have called Bush a murdering, lying, morbid, torturing, greedy, corrupt, beady eyed, thieving, narcissistic, shameless, power-obsessive, war-loving, blood-thirsty, authoritarian, manipulative parasite. But the "Devil" just seems easier. Pretty much covers it all with one nice short little word.

And besides that, if Chavez's spirituality leads him to believe that Bush is the devil, we should respect that and not attack his religious beliefs :evilgrin:

[enough already]

100. There is no such thing as going too far in attacking Bush

He's f'ed up the whole world. Chavez spoke the truth.

[Warren Stupidity]

59. Gee I am shocked you would take this position. nt.

[Totally Committed]

62. ...

:rofl:

TC

[Moochy]

89. He's really going out on a limb here huh...

[Cha]

134. :)

:wow:

[desi]

60. I watched the THUG's entire UN presentation

with his henchmen sitting behind him and I was sick to my stomach. I was not surprised in the least bit since I had come to expect that Colin Powell would gladly and enthusiastically carry Bush's water on his way to Iraq...devils for sure, the whole lot of 'em.

[cboy4]

63. I agree with you also

:kick:

[KoKo]

64. Their Comments were being "Devil's Advocate."

So, given that they both had a great sense of "humor" given the perilous POLITICS... I didn't have a problem with them "feigning disagreement," either.

Glad to see you support their "Devil's Advocate" position on these statements, Wyldwolf.

Maybe there's hope for a conversion for you AFTER ALL! Good on you for this post! :toast: That took guts!

BTW! It's an IRONY ALERT! Since you know I was "snarking" you...

[Moochy]

66. 187 on the drive by threads! n/t

[lynne]

67. THANK YOU for standing up to take that position -

- even though it may be unpopular here. I agree with you. Rangel and Pelosi both speak for me.

Wonder what would happen if an American president made such a statement in Venezuela?

[ProudDad]

86. Nothing

It's nothing compared to what the oligarchy that owns Venezuela's press say every day about Chavez...

[bitchkitty]

68. ¡Hugo habla para mí!

¡Viva Chavez!

[Vidar]

70. Chavez speaks for humanity. Sorry to see you on the other side.

[leesa]

71. Not me. Bush deserves to be disrespected in front of the world body

So does the US for its despicable behavior and for not controlling their leader.

[SaveElmer]

72. I too agree with Rangel and Pelosi...

Both in their complaints about Chavez's speech and the characterization of him by Pelosi!!!

[ruggerson]

73. me too n/t

[IndianaGreen]

74. Gore, Feingold and Kerry are "Bush's fiercest political opponents"

Pelosi is just Neville Chamberlain in drag!

[newsguyatl]

75. big surprise here

:eyes:

the DLC speaks for you, too.

[Cha]

135. Dean speaks for me!

:)

[fuzzyball]

77. Agree with both Pelosi & Rangel....Chavez is a 2-bit thug...

and Bush is a dimwit s.o.b......there, I can say that but
I want no foreigner to come to my country and say it. Ours
is a family argument, but we are united against all outsiders.

[IndianaGreen]

79. Bush is a mass murderer!

Bush is a psychopath responsible for torture and the deaths of over 250,000 Iraqis. Bush should be tried for war crimes and he should receive the maximum punishment.

You can take Bush and shove it!

[ProudDad]

87. That

"my country, right or wrong" CRAP is BULLSHIT...

In addition:

Everyone has freedom of speech or No-one has freedom of speech. That's the way it works.

and MY FAMILY is the working people of the Earth.

[fuzzyball]

124. Try going to Venezuela and announce in a public square that Chavez

is a devil and see what happens to you. Ofcourse I am
for 100% freedom of speech by American citizens in US.
But I have no use for despots like Chavez who pernit no
freedom of speech in his own country to come here and
spout of.

[IndianaGreen]

137. You should go to Venezuela, but stay out of the country clubs

and stay away from the English-speaking and American-educated elites, and see how the vast majority of Venezuelans agree with, and support Chavez.

[springhill]

94. Are you for real?

[fuzzyball]

125. If Pelosi & rangel are for real, then I must be for real..

[tkmorris]

95. Define "outsider"

I say we are ALL humans, every one of us. This kind of xenophobic hyperpatriotism is exactly the kind of crap that has been used to justify wars throughout history.

To me, sir, YOU are the outsider. YOU are the one poisoning the well for the rest of us. Put the damned flag down and remember that the difference between you and the poorest resident in the poorest barrio in Caracas is merely an accident of birth, no more. WE would be your brothers and sisters, not those who would exploit us to fatten their wallets and massage their egos, and the sooner you realize that the sooner we can begin to correct the God awful mess this country and this planet have gotten to be.

[AJH032]

119. we have a problem then

If we are supposed to see ourselves as one global human community, then why should we be against free trade agreements? I thought our whole argument against them was to protect AMERICAN workers.

If we are supposed to see ourselves as one global human community, only differentiated by accidents of birth, then wouldn't you have to disagree with Chavez, calling Bush the devil? Afterall, we would have to include Bush and all other Republicans in our global human community as well, since we are ALL humans, right?

I'm not embracing either side, but we should at least be consistent.

[fuzzyball]

127. First, I am simply agreeing with out leader in house Nancy Pelosi..

Next, I define an outsider as someone who does not
permit free speech in his/her own country but wants
to come to MY country and spout off.

If prime minister of UK or president of France or any
leader of a free speech democracy came here and said
whatever I would have no problem with that.

[Ken Burch]

159. Chavez DOES permit free speech in his country.

He isn't Castro. Don't mindlessly parrot right-wing talking points.

Christ, you probably thought the Sandinistas were a "Communist dictatorship".

Do you actually disagree with Republicans on anything that matters?

[fudge stripe cookays]

104. United?

Where the hell have you been for the last five years? This is the most divied this country has ever been. I have nothing in common with morons who support a homicidal maniac over someone who calls him on it.

As far as I'm concerned, world leaders can say whatever they want about Chimpy, just as he feels compelled to call everyone else terr'ists. That's the way it works.

[fuzzyball]

128. Ofcourse we are divided but that is an INTERNAL squabble...

when it comes to confrontation with a foreign power, I
am 100% behind our leaders.

[fudge stripe cookays]

130. Then, what exactly are you doing here?

This is Democratic Underground.

Most of us believe the current "LEADERS" are fascist thugs. Perhaps you would be more comfortable over at the site that shall not be named. They're solidly behind our leaders too.

[fuzzyball]

140. Our leaders include 100 senators, 435 congressmen, 1 president.+VP

What they COLLECTIVELY decide by MAJORITY votes is what the national
decision is. The president can veto any bill passed by the congress
and the congress can override the veto by a certain majority.

Me as an individual or any other individual only gets to
vote our representatives in an election. Once elected it is THEY who
make decisions and we have no say in it, until NEXT ELECTION if we do
not like their decisions. That is how representative democracy works.
If you don't like the current leaders, what we all need to do is
work our asses off in the NEXT election to get the leaders of our
liking get elected. I will be working hard to get Hillary Clinton get
elected. You can work for whoever you choose. But once elected, you can
not keep throwing abuse on the elected leaders. That is violating the
essence of our democracy and our constitution. I hope you are in favor
of both.

[fudge stripe cookays]

143. Well, excuse me

but when those leaders are a bunch of lemmings who are leading our country over a cliff (with the exception of a few), I'll be standing on the sidelines watching you go goosestepping around behind them.

And by the way-- many of them weren't ELECTED last time. They were Diebolded. Big difference.

[IndianaGreen]

139. And Seig Heil to you too!

I'll choose the forces of freedom and democracy over Bush's tyranny!

[fuzzyball]

141. Did I ever say I favor Bush and his agenda? Plz read my post above.

[Warren Stupidity]

105. The UN is not our country.

Chavez made a speech to an international body located in the territory of no nation at all. The UN headquarters is not your country. Get over it.

[fuzzyball]

129. Tell that to rep. Rangel before yelling at me....and Chavez ALSO

repeated the same vindictives OUTSIDE of the UN, in
a meeting in Harlem. The last time I checked Harlem is
still a bonafide part of US.

[IndianaGreen]

78. You are defending a President that is a murderer, a war criminal, a tyrant

and one that is also protecting terrorists and covering up the role his father played in Washington DC's worst terrorist attack in years.

The Bush family are a WASP version of a Mafia family! That's the kind of scum you are defending.

Bush Shields Dad on Chile Terrorism
By Robert Parry

Chilean investigators say the Bush administration is undercutting their case against former dictator Augusto Pinochet for his alleged role in the terrorist assassination of a political rival on the streets of Washington three decades ago, a crime that then-CIA Director George H.W. Bush appears to have tolerated and then helped cover-up.

Now, George W. Bush has picked up the mantle from his father for protecting the 90-year-old Pinochet from ever facing justice for the murder of former Chilean Foreign Minister Orlando Letelier and an American co-worker, Ronni Moffitt, who were killed by a car bomb on Sept. 21, 1976, as Letelier drove down Massachusetts Avenue.

Six years ago, near the end of the Clinton administration, an FBI team reviewed new evidence that had become available in the case and recommended the indictment of Pinochet. But the final decision was left to the incoming Bush administration, which has failed to act while also withholding relevant documents from Chilean investigators.

"Every day it is clearer that Pinochet ordered my brother's death," human rights lawyer Fabiola Letelier told the New York Times. "But for a proper and complete investigation to take place we need access to the appropriate records and evidence."

By frustrating the Chilean investigation, the Bush administration also is protecting former President George H.W. Bush against possibly being implicated in this act of terrorism, conceivably as an accessory after the fact for diverting suspicion away from Pinochet.

http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/4120/1/211/

[dave123williams]

80. Bullshit.

Chavez had the Iranian Prime Minister over for tea last week. They're baiting us in to another ill-concieved war to try to destroy us.

Get it?

[ProudDad]

88. Time for the tin foil hats

:tinfoilhat:

[dave123williams]

145. I'm sorry. They didn't meet?

We haven't gotten baited in to two losing wars? Tinfoil hat, my ass.

[Clarkie1]

81. K & R. Kudos to Rangel and Pelosi for representing the best in Democrats.

nt

[IndianaGreen]

83. No, they represented the class interests of the elites

the working class is best represented by the likes of Chavez.

[Clarkie1]

123. I'm working class and he certainly DOES NOT represent me.

He's nothing but a petty populist from a long line of Latin American petty populists.

Venezuela deserves a leader worthy of its people.

[IndianaGreen]

138. Like who? One of those neolib globalists the Clintons love

or one of those military dictators that the Bushes adore?

You are just another Anglo that believes in the "white man's burden."

[ProudDad]

90. Let's see if I've got your point straight

The best in democrats is to abandon and disrespect their real base...the working people.

Oh, that's right, that's how they've been winning so many elections lately... :sarcasm:

[Clarkie1]

121. How is what they said disrespecting working people?

Your post is bizzare in the extreme.

[eridani]

97. They represent only their corporate paymasters n/t

[Clarkie1]

122. Why do you say that? nt

[wyldwolf]

126. The learned to say that in "Prooogressive 101"

[Moochy]

136. maximize our offensive posture

What is that quote from? It's very appropriate for 99% of your posts, just wondering. :shrug:

[eridani]

142. Because it's true

There is no justification whatsoever for any Dem to defend Bush under any circumstances. If they don't support the Cahvez statement, fine. Merely STFU would be sufficient indication of that.

[citizen snips]

147. I am glad that Rangle does not represent my district

first the draft and now this rant against a democratically elected leader is making me sick.

[onenote]

153. who does represent your district?

[citizen snips]

156. David Price

and he is a democrat

[ProudDad]

84. Rangel and Pelosi

have demonstrated their cowardice again.

Fuck em....

Who the FUCK is Rangel to define the free speech rights of the world's leaders???

And Pelosi, wow, that took a lot of thought to call him a "Thug" because he lead off his speech with a joke about the bastard who tried to "take him out"!!!

No wonder the dems keep losing -- no principles...

[springhill]

91. You have got to be kidding me?

Extreme times call for extreme criticism. How bad do things have to get in this country, and how digusting does our leader have to be before we allow? someone to call him out for the absolute thug (better used for Bush than Chavez) who is our leader. I mean, for God's sake, I am so sick of the timid rhetoric used by many of our own and other leaders. The times call for more than that. If only more leaders would be so bold. And for crying out loud, Bush tried to overthrow his government, a democratically elected government I might add. Truthfully, I just don't get a lot of the supportive posts for Bush. And yours is supporting him. Just don't get it.

[eridani]

96. No, an attack on Bush is a DEFENSE of the rest of America n/t

[ima_sinnic]

98. oh boo hoo, somebody called the sadistic lying asswipe what he is

--gee that's just so "offensive."

meanwhile, let the torturing, maiming, looting, plundering, lying, extortion, greed, raping, murdering and mayhem continue. after all, what could be more important than criticizing a democratically elected head of state for saying what only 99.99999% of the world is thinking but only a few have the cajones to say? jeez, wake up!

[enough already]

99. Chavez speaks for me

I can't take Bush one day longer and the whole world agrees with me. Rangel and Pelosi need to shut up on this one.

[LWolf]

101. But not for me.

I am sickened by their defense of Bush, by the blatant hypocrisy, and by their public flaunting of nationalism.

[alcibiades_mystery]

102. There's a big surprise

:eyes:

[SaveElmer]

106. Almost as big a surprise...

That 95% of the responses disagree with wyldwolf...

Alot of conformity here at DU!

[alcibiades_mystery]

107. 99% of people disagree with nazism

Conformist bastards...

:rofl:

[SaveElmer]

110. How surprising...ignoring the topic...

You mock the 5% of people here who dissent from the normal DU view for having a predictable position, yet say nothing of the 95% who agree with you just as predictably!!!

[alcibiades_mystery]

111. My point is this

You appear to think "conformism" is always bad. I believe, on the contrary, that conformity is not so bad when it is in opposition to stupidity and evil. You want to take the side of stupidity and evil, and label others "conformist" on that basis? Be my guest. Whatever. If you call me a conformist because I believe Pol Pot was a douchebag, simply because most people hold that position, your argument isn't really gonna go all that far with me, for example. In such cases, I would rather conform to the general view, and "dissent" to that view strikes me as silly. So, more power to ya. You "dissent." Congratulations! But don't act as if dissent is a value in itself.

Sometimes, dissent is just contarian complicity with the indefensible.

[SaveElmer]

114. No I do not think conformity is always bad..

I think it is disingenous to criticize one side for conformity when those doing the criticizing are practicing it as well.

As much as DU progressives would like to make it so, opposition to Chavez does not translate into support for Bush

[alcibiades_mystery]

115. Chavez, Bush, whatever

I'm talking about your post that attacks conformity. Conformity is sometimes OK. That's my only point. I could really give a shit less about DU centrists, DU progressives, Hugo Chavez, George W. Bush, flotsam, jetsam, Greens, jeans and laser beams. I don't care.

The whole fucking thing seems ridiculous.

[Ken Burch]

158. You can't oppose Chavez and still give a damn about the poor

in Latin America or here.

Nothing short of a serious redistribution of wealth will ever work. "Free Trade" has been proven to be nothing but a scam that benefits a wealthy technocratic elite and leaves everyone else out in the cold.

Democrats, FOR ONCE, should be on the right side of history.

[truebrit71]

108. Nancy Pelosi can kiss my ass.

She is nothing more than a * enabler making that sort of statement...

[Imagevision]

112. Rangel, Pelosi should've remained silent, what did they accomplish?

[Imagevision]

113. Pelosi: Hugo Chavez a "thug" - And what is Bush?? merely a liar?

surely you gest Nancy Pelosi.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WCGreen]

120. Also for me....

Chavez really proved what a buffoon he is...

Almost to the level of Buffoonery that now takes up space at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave...

[PVnRT]

131. Uh-huh

I guess that means I shouldn't criticize our Great White Father if I ever go to New York City. Good thing I never plan on visiting there anyway.

[LibDemAlways]

133. Don't agree. If anything Chavez went too easy on the

murderous POS. Shame on Pelosi and Rangel for suggesting that Chavez doesn't have the right to speak his mind.

[citizen snips]

146. viva chavez!

[TankLV]

149. I vehemently DISAGREE. Bush is NOT "america".

An attack on BUSH is NOT and "attack on america" it's what it is - an attack - extremely justifiable attack - on a PROVEN WAR CRIMINAL!

You and your kind couldn't be more wrong or mistaken.

What Hugo said I and countless other PATRIOTS have thought and said a MILLION TIMES already.

And, lastly, IT'S SIMPLY THE TRUTH.

Viva Chavez!

[MODemocrat]

151. They do not speak for me

They could have just said it was distasteful or uncalled for; they didn't have to act like children.
An Attack on Bush is NOT an attack on This American. I'm not the devil. I lost a lot of respect for all
three of those juveniles.:+ :+ :+ :crazy: :crazy:

[Zorra]

155. All this love for Bu*h makes me want to puke.

He's a dangerous, lying fascist that stole the Presidency of the US and who is intent on dismantling our democracy once and for all. His actions speak for themselves.

He does not deserve to be defended.

[Hippo_Tron]

161. Wyldwolf, I don't disagree that Chavez is a thug, but...

I don't understand Rangel's high and mighty attitude that foreign leaders aren't allowed to criticize Bush. His actions effect other countries as well as this one and I don't see why it's only proper for US citizens to criticize him. I have no problem with Rangel denouncing Chavez but I don't see why he had to say that Bush should be immune from foreign criticism while doing it.

That being said, while I have an opinion on this subject it isn't really going to influence the way I vote in November.

[nolabels]

162. The first thing I have issue with is * was not actually elected..........

Anything after that is all academic to me :shrug: