It's a dark day in America.

[kentuck]

As Tony Snow has just reported in the last couple of hours, the President got everything he wanted. What he wanted was to continue to hold people in secret prisons, to hold innocent people without a trial or hearing, and to torture people in ways that the rest of the civilized world finds sickening. John McCain, John Warner, and Lindsay "pretended" for a few days they were not going to let it continue in its present form. In the final analysis, they folded everything, including their self-professed principles.

It's a dark day because they have legitimized "torture". Basically, they said what was done was OK and Bush and the CIA can continue to do it. All of America shoud be ashamed. They say they are protecting America. The opposite is true. They are making America weaker - morally and militarily. I will now watch as the Democratic Party praises the Republican "compromise" which was nothing more than a sham from the beginning.

[Eric J in MN]

1. America will also be weaker from this bill because of bad intelligence.

Sleep is necessary to live. When the interrogators prevent a prisoner from sleeping until he talks, he'll say anything.

Then the US will get false leads which distract from real threats.

[Jackpine Radical]

4. False leads can be very useful.

You just cherry-pick them to find justifications for whatever you want to do.

[BlueEyedSon]

18. What Jack said

[AntiFascist]

60. Exactly, and then before you know it something like 9/11 slips through...

or Operation Hiroshima.

[emald]

2. our country is now, and has been for the last five years,

a country that tortures people. It is hard to get used to saying that. It is very sad, very bad. The USA is a country of torture and no rights for certain brown prisoners. Wow. Stunning. and very depressing. but hey, we are killing them there so we won't have to be killed here.
IMPEACH NOW

[katty]

3. very dark day

[Kutjara]

5. We have publicly legitimized whatever 'terrorists' want to do to us...

...from this day forward. We are a nation of torturers and war criminals, and such people deserve whatever they get.

[fuzzyball]

32. But the terrorists are already chopping heads off without anesthesia...

how much worse can they get?

[Bridget Burke]

48. We're supposed to be better than the Terrorists....

USA! USA!

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

57. How does what someone else does justify what the U.S. does? Would the

Allies in WWII been justified in burning a bunch of German civilians in ovens because this was done?

[Gregorian]

6. If it helps, we're both in the same cell.

I just got off the phone with my parents. We're all devastated. America is all business. No great value on culture. No value on health. Just business. Corporatization.

The rest of the world is watching in as much horror as you and I. We can only isolate so long. And then, probably once we are totally indebted and in need, will we begin to cease with the arrogance.

Dark, but not hopeless.

[indepat]

7. Shows how wrong I was to have thought McCain had grown half a ball

[katsy]

8. They watched Americans die in New Orleans...

what made anyone think they would not torture?

Washington is morally, ethically and intellectually bankrupt (save a few progressive Democrats).

Like the corporate masters they serve.

This is not my country.

[loveable liberal]

9. They do not represent the United States of America.

They represent a small faction of our citizens that have usurped power through illegitimate means. They are cheats and liars; simpletons with simple needs. They are disgusting examples of the worst humanity has to offer. Stupid, angry, white men who have been given everything while giving nothing in return. They sell our nation for personal gain and sacrifice the future of generations to come. They have squandered our good standing in the world for money. They do not represent me.

[CrispyQ]

50. Spot on.

They are disgusting examples of the worst humanity has to offer. Stupid, angry, white men who have been given everything while giving nothing in return.

Takers. Users. Bloodsuckers.

[Tigermoose]

55. What does their gender or race have to do with it?

nt

[CrispyQ]

61. Nothing. However, the fact is

that the majority of those in charge are white men. I don't believe lovable liberal meant to imply that only white men act stupidly, simply that these white men are acting that way. Sadly there are plenty of people of both sexes & all races that exhibit these character flaws.

:eyes:

[Initech]

10. We're totally fucked now.

I've been saying it for a long time but now that this thing has passed, it is 100% official. America is fucked. We might as well be living under a dictatorship. Or a theocratic government. The fact that the Bush administration has been able to successfully skate the war crimes laws and that they have been able to basically overthrow our government is no different than what happened to the Iraqis. If I had the means I'd leave the country. But I do not, my only option is to ride it out and hope that these heathens get thrown in the very prisons they help support.

[A wise Man]

41. The motive of Bush's action

is not just to have the right to torture, but to clear him of any concepts being charged with "WAR CRIMES" in the event of impeachment after November.

[mom cat]

11. What is the chance of a fillabuster?

[Sam Odom]

13. and be hanged in the MSM as weak on TERRA ?

no way

[ShortnFiery]

22. How about Our Civil Rights?!? They need to support US! :( n/t

[mom cat]

23. Then the blimey cowards deserve to be hung

for treason.

[whiterabbit76]

12. Will we ever wake from this national nightmare??

[ChipsAhoy]

14. We should be used to dark days by now, eh??

That's why I'm holding tightly to my emotions during the upcoming elections. I won't be so bitterly let down this time. I'm actually preparing myself. hmmmm, protection of my emotions of sorts.

[mwb970]

15. I don't think we will ever be in power again.

Until after the Revolution, that is.

[ChipsAhoy]

16. I can't tell you how many times that has crossed my mind.

Sometimes I wonder if we will ever be in power again in MY lifetime. OR - will my children and grandchildren see those days? Now that is a dark thought. But, reality isn't always pretty.

I do get tired of the rose colored glasses some see through, only to be let down time and time again. I think gripping reality by the horns hurts less than useless wishing.

[Doctor_J]

21. WE don't seem to be able to muster the momentum for a civil war

Unfortunately, our liberation will have to come via foreign help. I think Republicans believe that Smirk won't end up like Hitler because he won't go "too far", the way Adolph did. they may be right.

[ChipsAhoy]

28. Unfortunately, that's true.

And unfortunately, your last sentence of your post may be correct also.

I mean, I'm just trying to stay in reality here.

[CrispyQ]

51. If by "we" you mean We the People, I agree. --nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. I think we're like the Argentines or Uruguayans when their govts.

legitimized secret detention and torture to "fight terrorism."

[IndianaGreen]

26. We know what happened to the Argentine military junta in the end

they were toppled, just as the Bush tyranny must be toppled.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. Yes, but ironically, the Argentines didn't topple their military

until after they'd lost the Falklands War. They could forgive torture of their fellow citizens, but not losing a war.

[IndianaGreen]

34. And we are losing two wars and are about to start a third war that...

we will surely lose. The end will not be pretty!

[formercia]

45. The 'boys' don't care

When the radiation levels decrease to where living creatures might come back to the surface they might take a peek, but they will be safe in their underground bunkers.Them and the mole people in New York City.

[flordehinojos]

19. i am saddened and heartbroken. IS THERE ANYTHING THE BASTARD BUSH

BOY WANTS THAT HE WILL NOT GET?

CONFOUNDED TARNATION!

[Sam Odom]

20. and he is soooo stupid

If bushco holds on to the House this year they will have all 4, WhiteH, Senate, House & SCourt again in '08

[ShortnFiery]

24. But my anger is focused on the gutless Senators who could

Filibuster this EVIL. I have a long memory and hope others do also. Vote THEM OUT in their very next primary. Email them of that fact if they don't Filibuster - follow through if they remain chicken-shit ... afraid more of losing their jobs than supporting The Constitution and The American People. :grr: :thumbsdown:

[OzarkDem]

25. It can and will be fixed

We just have to get the bastids out of office and clean up the mess.

[chill_wind]

27. "Clean up the mess"?

They need to give some actual indication that they intend to do that.
Every day now, I see less and less of it. Don't forget they are to their own degree a culpable *part of the mess* and have been essentially eating from the same TWOT dog dish.

None of them want to be thrown out or go to jail or the Hague any more than Republicans do. And none of them in the high ranks are going to do anything to help facilitate that possibility when or IF the real time may ever come.

[Prophet 451]

29. *headesk*

This is my head. This is my desk. This is the sound of my head hitting my desk. Ow.

I have no words for this.

[ChipsAhoy]

30. LOL

I liked that expression!

[NightOwwl]

33. Where are our Dem "leaders?"

I guess they are ok with torture, too.

Gutless, spineless and useless. That's our Dem "leaders" for you.

[thinks4herself]

35. Disgraced

Today, when I heard this on the news, I shed some tears. Had this real defeated feeling wash over me. I wish soooooo badly I could move to a peaceful nation that does not support torture and wars of choice because I no longer belong to this one. I am sickened. When does this nightmare end or will it?


Black Hearts

[kentuck]

40. Nice website you have...

Welcome!

[eridani]

36. Did it pass, or just get out of committee? n/t

[AtomicKitten]

37. it moved out of committee

as I posted here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2840235

I think the Chavez brouhaha is nonsense, but I'm digging in my heels on this issue. Democrats MUST filibuster this legislation because it is disgraceful. The Rs are putting it forward before an election just like DOMA in 1996 and IRW in 2002 hoping the Dems will again bite and be too cowardly to oppose them.

I cannot imagine in what parallel universe the Democrats could possible let this slide. They must do everything in their power to stop this.

[Hawkowl]

53. Agree 100%

This IS the issue for the Dems to show the American people what we stand for! Not rape rooms, water boarding, and murder. The MSM could ask what is the Dems agenda for Iraq? Answer "stop the torture so peace and reconstruction can take hold". Rove would say "the liberals don't have the stomach to torture terrorists!" and we say we condemn rape rooms.

C'mon for Christ's sake (who would Jesus torture? We can even play to the religious crowd)

TAKE A STAND!!!

[AtomicKitten]

54. hey

a belated welcome to DU :)

[Senator]

38. This is What Losing a "War on Terror" Looks Like

It's not about civilians killed or buildings toppled.

You either display the cowardice of using violence as a panacea, or the courage of moral conviction.

Our once-great nation is now ruled by never-elected, never-legitimate cowardice.

Impeachment is our ONLY moral, patriotic option. The only way we can even begin to Redeem Our National Soul.

==

[Efilroft Sul]

42. Impeachment's not the only moral, patriotic option.

It's our immediate, moral, and patriotic DUTY if the Democrats win the majority of Congress in the midterms.

However, if the Democrats shirk their duty, it's time for the people to assert their power. We use the option that none dare speak its name: insurrection. It's moral and it's patriotic.

By the way, Agent Mike, you can blow me.

[AzDar]

39. The 'Terrorists' win again.........n/t

[Joanne98]

43. Of course he did. There's NO oppostion party! (sarcasm)

[enough already]

44. The wrong people are being tortured

We should start in the White House

[pat_k]

46. Each member who votes for the War Criminals Protection Act of 2006. . .

. . .enables the War Criminals in the Executive branch, and therefore becomes accessories after the fact.

They can try to nullify prohibitions in U.S. Code, but nothing they can do protects them from prosecution by the international court.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2190505

[Odin2005]

47. The pukes torture because they WANT more terrorists.

They need the cycle of purpetual war to keep going in order to enrich themselves and to keep the Religious Right thinking the End Times are comming.

[mnhtnbb]

49. It is so sad watching this country destroy itself from within. Who needs

terrorists, socialists, communists? We are doing it to ourselves.

My husband and I are on track for retirement to Panama in 2008. I just hope the US doesn't get blown up before then.

[deathdog]

52. Makes me wish I could leave

I looked into moving to Canada after the 2004 election. Apparently it's kind of a hassle. But today I find myself thinking about it again.

My country tortures prisoners. Just thinking it makes me cry.

[mnhtnbb]

58. Leaving is a major hassle. First you have to figure out where,

and then figure out how. We spent 4 months researching the where, and ended up with trips to Belize and Panama, finally buying in Panama.
For the last year we've been involved in the planning for building
our house. We've hired Panamanian attorneys to help with setting up a Panamanian corporation to take title (tax advantages), we've been through working with two banks trying to open accounts in Panama (it's not like the U.S. where you walk in and give a social security # and your drivers license), and we're still waiting to hear from the Panamanian ministry whether our application for a permanent retirement visa is approved (also attorney assisted). Then there's the buying/shipping of household goods...on and on.

So, it's not easy logistically to make the move...but the fact that we're going to have this escape plan has saved a lot of mental anguish for me and my husband.

And after today--with the torture bill--I'm decided we're going. I haven't wanted to move, because I love Chapel Hill and don't want to give up on this country. But I really think the country is past the point of no return. I don't expect the votes to be counted fairly in November any more than they were in 2000 or 2004.

[Marrak]

56. The Bush-War Admin ain't gonna steal

two elections, one after leading us into a disastrous war and then think they get away at this point. Not now. We gotta filibuster this next week!

<>

[Clarkie1]

59. I'm still waiting for all the facts to come out on this agreement.

On the PBS newshour they said it would ban waterboarding, but allow some sleep deprivation, for example.

We need to remain firm in our convictions against torture and for American ideals, but I wish we had all the facts of the agreement. Is there a transcript anywhere?