Fuck It! Been waiting too long. Green is ONLY for St. Patrick's Day!

[galloglas]

There is (was) a current thread in "Greatest Threads" which has some things pertinent to Missouri. The title was/is "Mother of All Election Scandals"

The URL is below.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x448679#448716

The more I look, the more I find it ain't just Missouri.

Items in its initial post carried ideas we need to think about, or risking losing much more in Missouri, and nationwide, than we know!



When I found the thread at Election Reform, one item stood out. I then posted something, regarding Missouri, that has really bothered me.

It contributed to a mini-firestorm on the original thread. Please find my post below.

It reads


"You have above:

The bigger scandal is that pushers of Instant Runoff Voting have gotten
Dems to feel obligated to this convoluted form of voting that makes
election audits ever more impossible and increases the likelihood
of ballot programming errors. Errors that will be hard to unravel.
IRV proponents are NOT advocating for hand counted paper ballots,
but are trying to force states to purchase voting MACHINES that can
be programmed to (pretend) count ballots cast this way.


There is a scandal here in Missouri I will post later this week, but I address part of it now.

The only reason for IRV is the fact that it might, just might, give an election to a candidate of a minor party once in a while (think Libertarian, Green, Constitutionalist, or whatever). They believe they get legitimacy that way.

It's BS.

We are not a nation with a Parliamentary system. So, that locks out the minor parties. Too bad.

When this nation has truly needed change, it has gotten it. It has come at the expense of fracturing the major parties, but, that is the price we paid to win our own Civil War. The Whigs went out of existence and a new breed of "Republican" came in with Lincoln.

Likewise, when the Robber Barons of the early 1900s took everyone's money, the Progressives formed and Teddy Roosevelt (a Republican president) bolted his party. The Progressives led us, progressively, through that hard period until the Depression hit and FDR turned the Democrats into what we are supposed to be today (instead GOP-lite).

If these people (Greens, Libertarians, etc.) can't win on their platforms, and build a party from the bottom up, they should try to amend the Constitution to make America a Parliamentary country... or give it up.

But, instead, they are resorting to Rovian trickery and deceit.

The Missouri story is this.

Immediately after the theft of the 2004 elections by the GOP, Missouri was the best positioned state (several factors contributing to this) to change its Constitution to mandate HCPB by way of an Initiative Petition. As soon as the Green Party caught wind, they sent "ambassadors" who supported the change, and many even signed informal petitions to our SoS for HCPB.

When this began to get some steam up, a Green "Ambassador" called for a private meeting and (after suggesting things like "negotiation" with EDs, using Open Source software, creating "honest machines", and other options) he asked that the Initiative Petition for HCPB not be pursued further.

For reasons unrelated to the Greens, the effort was put aside.

But, as we were to find out in 2006, the Greens had all the while been planning to run, and collecting signatures to put candidates on the ballot, under the name of "The Progressive Party".

Talk about a False Flag operation!! The Bushkovites have nothing on these people!

As much as I may agree with most of political positions of the Greens, I lose all respect for them appropriating the name proud name and illustrious past of the "Progressive Party".

And we Democrats who cried "Foul" when the Green Party cost us the Presidency in 2000, by running Ralph Nader, should be screaming now.

If Nader's 2000 run should be labeled "Foul", the running of candidates in Missouri under the name Progressive should be labeled "Criminal!"

Is the Green Party so ashamed of itself, and its past lackluster performances, that it will not even run candidates under its own banner?

[Jim Sagle]

1. But...but...but THAT would mean that the Greens (gasp!) STILL suck!!!!!!!

;(

[baldguy]

2. The GOP is using the Green Party to draw support away from Democrats.

[MadHound]

3. Excuse me, but what do you have against our current democracy

And our current method of bringing issues before the people. It is a constitutionally guaranteed right that people can run for office under any goddamn party name that they want to. Here in Missouri it is a constitutionally guaranteed right that we the people can put issues on the ballot, any issue, via the initiative petition. Yet here you are complaining about it. Hate to tell you this, but if enough people vote for IRV, it is going to be a reality, whether you like it or not.

Meanwhile, concerning the Greens, the reason for running under the Progressive Party flag is twofold. First, there are disagreements with the national Green party. Second, it is because of people like you, who continue to spread the erroneous lie that the Greens cost Gore the election(or Kerry the election) that they are wishing to avoid. The sad tale is too long to repeat this morning, but if you would go read Palast's book "Best Democracy Money Can Buy" you will get the full story of how neither Nader, nor the Greens effected the outcome at all. In fact in the Jan. '01 issue of "Blueprint" DLC chair Al From flatly states that if Nader hadn't been running in Florida, more people would have voted for Bush.

Oh, and you admitted in your OP, and this one, that the way our current system is set up, major changes are brought about via a major political party getting shoved onto the dustbin of history. Has it ever occurred to you that this is exactly what is being attempted now? D'oh! Frankly many, many people have gotten sick and tired of Dems rolling over on everything from the Iraq war to the Patriot Act to various nominations to the bankruptcy bill, on and on ad nauseum. In fact we're probably going to be treated to the same shit next week as the Dems roll over and allow this once great nation employ torture legally. It is becoming too much for more and more people, and we're looking for a real change, a real opposition party. That's why the upsurge of the Greens.

You want the Dems to retain power? You want to stop the hemmorage of voters from going Green? Then the Dems had better damn well start paying attention to the issues that they're supporters and constituents are concerned about rather than what they're corporate masters want. Otherwise, they will indeed go on the dustbin of history.