Warning: Do Not Vote Early or Absentee

[orleans]

just got this email from mark crispin miller:

"Absentee ballots are very easy to toss out. Historically, they've
been the first to go into the trash when fraudsters run the show.

Moreover, those voting absentee can't know if they've been quietly
taken off the books, as countless would-be voters were two years
ago. The only way to find that out is to show up at the polling
place yourself.

And, most important, a high turn-out on Election Day will help
immensely to pre-empt, or at least complicate, another theft by
the Republicans, whose fraud will be much harder to explain
if millions have showed up to vote. This is why the GOP in
MAryland and Colorado (and elsewhere) is pushing people to
vote absentee.

Tell Democrats.com that item #2 is not a good idea.

MCM"

below that is a snip from democrats.com that is telling people to avoid long lines and hackable machines by voting absentee.

i agree with mcm on this--we need to show a presence at the polls, we're going to need to be seen and heard AND WE NEED EXIT POLLING!!!


on edit:
For more News From Underground, visit http://markcrispinmiller.com

[WCGreen]

1. First of all, if you are off the list, you won't get an absentee ballot

sent to you...

[orleans]

2. can't people go into their election board office and pick one up? n/t

[orleans]

3. or can't they mail one to you and then take you off the list? n/t

[WCGreen]

6. I guess they could...

But you have to trust somewhere in this mix...

If you don't trust absentee voting and you don't trust the voting machines, then you have set yourself up with a nice sanctimonious reason for either not voting or a big I told you so on election day...

[TreasonousBastard]

13. Gotta agree there...

election fraud has a long history here, but not all districts are full of cheats. So many people here are despairing so much over the system it is in danger of losing whatever integrity it has.

The way we do absentee ballots here is that they are sent unopened to the polling location, and opened with all inspectors present. There's then a certified sheet filled and out signed by all the inspectors. Haven't seen any early ballots yet, but I hear they are handled the same way.

[Art_from_Ark]

5. My county clerk's office actually sent me a form asking me

what elections I would like an absentee ballot for this year (since I am a regular absentee voter). They have already sent me two ballots after I submitted the automatic request form, so I know I'm on their list.

But it might be a good idea, if you're going to vote absentee, to call whoever is in charge of your registration and confirm that you are registered, well before the election.

[WCGreen]

7. They won't send you an application if you aren't registered....

[truthisfreedom]

4. vote normally. if the thugs steal the vote this time, we'll rally in the

streets, rush the **, and take total control.

[orleans]

8. that's the spirit! n/t

[wakeme2008]

9. Sorry I will vote Absentee as long as my other choice is Touchscreen

:)

[Berry Cool]

12. Yeah--what are you supposed to do if your only other alternative

is voting on an utterly hackable Diebold touchscreen? :shrug:

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. Absentee voting is a risk in more ways then one

but I don't understand why you think Early Voting is a problem? I think Early Voting is a good idea because you have to vote in person and if you get there and they can't find your name on the list you still have plenty of time to do something about it.

BTW: In FL in 2004, Bush won the Absentee Vote but Kerry won the Early Vote.

[LiberalFighter]

39. Republicans have been doing absentee voting for a longer time

That is probably why dipshit won that phase.

Republicans are more likely to allocate funds for absentee voting then Democrats.

[katmondoo]

11. I voted early last time and will not do it again

I had the feeling that the person handling my ballot treated me with disdain knowing I was a Democrat. She knew because she had to look up my eligibility and I am a registered Democrat

[KoKo]

14. Good points. Early voting can be tampered with...even though it's more

convenient. A show in mass on election day will be too hard to cover up. I think the Early Voting was another way to assure Repug win. Your vote goes into machine and from there it's reconfigured or tossed. Some places are holding early voting for two weeks...you can imagine the temptation with machines that aren't guarded and poll workers who are changing daily.

[Hosnon]

15. I'll never vote absentee again...not counted in GA unless race is close.nt

[1932]

16. That could be bull shit

Long lines at the polls hurt democrats because democrats are more likely to work jobs which don't give them time off to vote (or get paid hourly). Long lines means Democrats might not vote.

Furthermore, I vote absentee and you can always check to make sure your vote was counted with your regisrar. Absentee ballots get counted together with regular ballots and are no more or less likely to get thrown out. Also, if you vote in a touchscreen district, an absentee ballot might be the only record of a vote.

Finally, if you live in a district with ANY republicans, and you're afraid that the registrar might undercount democrats, you're probably better off voting absentee because the registrar doesn't know where in the distric an absentee ballot comes from and, therefore, is less likely to throw it out.

My experience though, is that all campaigns push absentee voting because it means fewer people you have to chase up on election day to get to the polls. It doesn't have to do with vote counting. It has to do with allocating resources as you get closer to your last day of work.

[orleans]

17. google absentee & "not counted"

what state/county do you live in that you believe your absentee vote is guarenteed to count? where ever you are it sure must be nice--we'd all like to live there. please share.

some articles on google's first page:

Voter's absentee ballots not counted--twice in two months!
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Oanwg0CR9IsJ:www.washingtonfreepress.org/81/voter%27sAbsenteeBallot.shtml+absentee+%22not+counted%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

Fraud Factor - Overseas Absentee Military Ballots Not Counted
http://www.fraudfactor.com/ffflmilitary.html

2300 ballots not counted - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/search/s_455526.html

Absentee ballot returns after 6 weeks - my vote was not counted
http://www.whatsoninrome.com/not-voting.php

Votes not counted in Spokane; 8 absentee ballots found unopened ...
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4186/is_20050528/ai_n14650123

Military Personnel And Voting Rights
http://www.cwv.org/milvote/milvote.htm

MANGLED BALLOTS RESURRECTED THOUSANDS OF SPOILED VOTES WERE ...
http://www.legitgov.org/index_hot_April5_purge.html

Election2000: In Pinellas, count clicked into chaos
http://www.sptimes.com/News/111600/Election2000/In_Pinellas__count_cl.shtml

[hughee99]

18. My understanding is that in most states

Absentee ballots that have not arrived by election day (but were mailed on time) are not counted unless the margin of victory is small enough to be affected by the ballots. If candidate X wins by 10K votes, and there are 3K votes outstanding, they do not even open the envelopes and count them. I could be wrong about this, but I've heard that this is standard practice even in my own state of Massachusetts, which I doubt would be following this policy for nefarious repuke reasons.

[ISUGRADIA]

21. I don't know of a state that DOES NOT count all votes

absentee included. The laws vary from state to state.

Here in Minnesota absentee ballots must arrive by election day's mail so they can be brought to the polls and cpounted with all other ballots. In Iowa absentees may be receieved until thurs/fri after the election depending on when the absentee board meets.

[LiberalFighter]

40. Same thing in elections to become a union

NLRB will consider the votes of the election without the voters that are challenged. If the number of challenged voters are less than difference in outcome then they will not consider whether any challenge voters should have their votes counted.

[CTyankee]

19. I'll be in Europe so I'm voting absentee in person at City Hall

as soon as they allow it. I do trust my very blue city hall here in New Haven, CT.

[MaineDem]

20. I totally disagree

Perhaps it depends on the state. I know here in Maine the absentee ballot list (the requests, mailing of ballots, and return of ballots) is maintained fastitiously. The parties can obtain the list and track those ballots that have been returned. On election day, the town clerks must notify the parties as to the time(s) those ballots will be opened and added to the general ballot box. The parties can then observe and make note of the envelopes that are opened and cross refernce those to the list that has been built from the first absentee ballot request.

Yes, it requires a bit of work but most of the town clerks we've worked with have been very forthcoming with their lists and we haven't had any problems with votes not being counted.

We urge people to vote this way. It's a vote "in the bank" for our side and it also frees up our volunteers to work on Election Day.

I think your subject line sends an incorrect message. Are there issues? I suppose so but we have to be vigilant about the absentee votes as much as the in-person Election Day votes.

[ISUGRADIA]

22. Miller doesn't know what he's talking about

wait until election day? then you may not be registered, it was too late to register, and the provisinal ballot will not count. If one requests an absentee ballot, the official is not going to send it if you are not registered. If you did get one, send it back, and then later get told, sorry it did not count because you are not registered (and you received a ballot before the state's registration deadline), call the ACLU...you'll have a case for illegal disenfranchisement.

Party officials should be tracking the absentee numbers and names by getting lists and checking this against absentee numbers after election day.

[BeFree]

23. I like Mark

Paid good money for his very good book - "Fooled Again". Lots of smart info there.

But here I think he is wrong and the other posts here detailing his wrongness sum up that argument very well.

Vote early if you can.

If you have a diebold electro-thing-a-ma-gigg-ee, vote paper absentee.

My vote will be cast on a paper ballot/scanned, with an audit hot on it's trail. Not as good as paper ballots hand counted, but it is better than most. Am almost happy!

[ISUGRADIA]

27. Interesting book but more than a few errors

that made me question his thoroughness in fact checking

[BeFree]

28. Really?

I found the book quite accurate on the things I checked out.

I guess you don't want to post how many errors you found and on which pages they can be found, do you?

[ISUGRADIA]

31. Off hand I don't have all with me but here's one

his trying to paint the MN US Senate race as stolen by the use of a week old poll Mondale 47 Coleman 39 by the Star Tribune. 1) not statistically significant given that polls only reflect the day they were taken 2) a VERY fluid race with people in shock 3) the Star Tribune stated that tracking polls the weekend before the election were showing it moving towards Coleman or too close to call.

My big problem with Miller here. Diebold is stealing elections. Minnesota may have been stolen. BUT no senate vote were counted by machine. All by hand in MN 2002 on a supplemental Senate ballot because it was too late to print new ballots for the tabulators. He either did not mention this or did not know this.

[truebrit71]

34. READ GREG PALAST'S BOOK......

..it says basically the same thing....

[AtomicKitten]

24. I am concerned about conflicting information about this.

I had been under the impression that voting absentee ballot was the thing to do.

[truebrit71]

33. Read Greg Palast's new book about this...

...and find out what the bastards did the last time...

[AtomicKitten]

35. read it

Actually met the guy once a few years back, but there is current conflicting advice on the best way to vote. The House is considering an emergency measure to use paper ballots in the next two days now that they are worried the Dems might hack the EVMs like they have.

[windbreeze]

25. gee, in my county....

We all vote absentee...100% of us...and what's more...we didn't get a real choice in the decision...furthermore...it was the DEMOCRATS that pushed the absentee voting...and I HATE IT...
windbreeze

[politicat]

26. Fortunately, I know my county and know it well enough to trust it.

Despite what the challenger said about the incumbent in the primaries, the office of the County Clerk here in Boulder is very thorough, reliable and responsive.

We have optical scan machines, so voting paper on the day or voting paper absentee doesn't make a difference. And most of the early voting election workers are very conscientious and far more interested in seeing that people do vote than in seeing that their team wins.

I'll continue to trust my absentee ballot here, especially since I can track it to make sure it was tallied.

[democrat in Tallahassee]

29. Agree

they are extremely easy to toss out

[PaDem]

30. I don't have a choice this year

wish it were different.

[truebrit71]

32. This is exactly what Greg Palast was saying....

..in his new book....

They are the EASIEST to "lose" or "spoil"....best bet is go to the polls....

[doc03]

36. In Ohio they have closed a lot of voting locations

to discourage people from voting. The Democrats in this area are actually telling people to vote absentee. So what the f--- are we supposed to do go stand in line for hours to vote on a machine that may or may not count your vote or vote on a paper ballot absentee! Here's a good one the local paper said the voting locations are closing because of a mandate from the Secretary of State (Ken Blackwell) and would you believe (THE HELP AMERICA VOTE ACT). 1984 is here!

[TheFarseer]

37. here's my thought

Let's say it's a very close race. Alot of democrats vote absentee. Let's say the race initially went republican, but the absentee ballots put the democrat in the lead AFTER everyone had already seen the results on election night stating the republican had won. Do you honestly think they would let the election flip like that? I think that would be a bad situation for us.

[rman]

38. Between this, voter ID, and the machines

I gather we're screwed either way. No reason not to try, but prepare for the worst.

[Toots]

41. What a crock of right wing BS

Vote by mail is extremely successful wherever it has been implemented. Just ask any Oregonian. If what you said was in any way true the GOP would nt have been endorsing this for the last decade. It is one way they have of insuring "turn-out". It is just soo much easier to vote from the comfort of your kitchen table instead of trying to find a place to park and stand in line and then run into that obnoxious person you have been avoiding for quite some time. Vote by mail is the only thing that will save Democrcy in the USA and people like you try to prevent it. Is there an ulterior motive? :shrug:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

42. HOWEVER...before Oregon went to all vote-by-mail, the

Republicans were sending absentee ballot applications to ALL their registered members, in the hope of increasing turnout. (I learned this from friends who were ex-Republicans but had never bothered to change their registration.)

I think it was one of the (Democratic) secretary of state's motivations for introducing universal vote-by-mail.