Why do people still insist Clark is weak on Gay issues?

[Democrats unite]

It's driving me nuts! The only one that I know of that is even near Clark on this issue is Kunchich! Let's put this to rest, right here, right now!


Statement on GLBT Issues

Ensuring each and every citizen's ability to reach his or her full human potential

Today, America faces serious challenges. Meeting the challenges of our time demands three things: new leadership, new ideas, and a new spirit of service. I've served this country alongside the most talented men and women in the world. To fulfill our country's full potential, we must nurture every person's abilities regardless of his or her individual characteristics, such as race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation. We are all Americans. Therefore, I am calling all Americans to find a way to serve with a new, inclusive spirit of patriotism. We cannot reach our full potential by discriminating against people because of their sexual orientation. To encourage all Americans to actively participate in our democracy, I would:


Ban discrimination based on sexual orientation. We should make sure that the Civil Rights Act bans discrimination based on race, religion, sex, national origin, and sexual orientation.

Strengthen federal protections against hate crimes. No one in this country should be the target of violence because of their appearance, religion, or sexual orientation.

Protect all families. Families in the United States come in many shapes and sizes. Currently, most of our laws extend rights and responsibilities only to heterosexual families and explicitly exclude same-sex couples from enjoying those same rights and responsibilities. It is in the best interest of our country to promote stable communities and families - this includes both heterosexual and same-sex families. Accordingly, I believe that same-sex couples should not be denied rights to pensions, health insurance, family medical leave, bereavement leave, hospital visitation, survivor benefits, and other basic legal protections that all families and children need.

http://www.clark04.com/issues/glbt/



By Wesley Clark

The ink was barely dry on the Massachusetts State Supreme Court's gay marriage decision, and the Republican Party was trying to use it as an election year issue to divide Americans. But this issue should not be a polarizing one. There's no reason why we shouldn't treat all Americans equally no matter what their race, religion or sexual orientation. That's why I welcomed the Massachusetts court decision with open arms.

I remember a conversation I had with a fellow Army officer a few months ago. He hadn't thought through my position supporting equal rights for gays. I asked him, "If you had a gay child, would you love that child as much as your other children?" And he said, "Yes, of course." And I asked if he would want his child to have the same rights and opportunities as every other child. And again he said, "Yes, of course." When we look at it in human terms, we recognize that this issue is about how we want our children to be treated. In America, every child should be equal in the eyes of the law, period.

Throughout the course of American history, too many groups have struggled for equal rights and opportunities. Growing up in Little Rock in the 1950s, I saw first-hand how wrenching the fight for civil rights was. In fact, I went to school for a year in Tennessee because they had closed the schools in Little Rock.

In too many ways, the struggle for equal rights is still on-going. Today, one of the frontlines in the civil rights struggle runs through the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) community. We must always stand by the principle: every American should enjoy the exact same rights as every other American.

http://clark04.com/articles/013/

[For PaisAn]

1. Here's an article from today's Washington Blade

Clark’s straightforward style appeals to gay liaison
Seifert says retired general will elevate gay citizens’ status

By ADRIAN BRUNE
Friday, February 06, 2004

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. — Even though he’s 2,500 miles away from his partner and their Washington, D.C., residence, Mark Seifert feels at home in the Arkansas capital of Little Rock, where Democratic presidential candidate and retired Gen. Wesley Clark has commandeered him to serve as his gay liaison. The pace may not be as fast as Beltway life, but Southern living appeals to Seifert, who is from Birmingham.

...snip...

The lawyer in Seifert likes Clark’s straightforward delivery style. Seifert describes Clark as willing to give an answer instead of “canned jargon.” The Southerner in Seifert appreciates the “down-home goodness” of the decorated Army commander and his ability to “make you feel as if you are the only person who matters in the room.”

...snip...

Seifert argues that Clark’s approaches to fulfilling certain gay voter objectives set him apart from his competitors.

For example, he noted that Clark has proposed allowing states the option to expand Medicaid to those living with HIV who still work, but cannot afford the expensive drugs. In Clark’s view, this would address the “Catch-22 in the current Medicaid system “that requires HIV sufferers to become disabled before they can access medication that prevents that incapacity.”

http://washingtonblade.com/2004/2-6/news/national/clark.cfm

[Jerseycoa]

2. Human Rights Campaign Questionnaire

http://www.glbtforclark.org/files/HRCQ_Questionnaire_Final.doc

[davidinalameda]

27. that picture is going on as my computer wallpaper at work

:bounce:

[MidwestMomma]

3. They haven't listened to him or seen the Advocate interview/cover?

Can't explain it myself. Maybe it's just a prejudice because he was brass in the military. I don't know. I do know that if you listen to him speak about gay rights you have no doubt that he has deep-rooted convictions concerning the issue. I really believe Wes Clark is one of those truly remarkable people that sees people as individuals and doesn't classify them/judge them based on their gender, race or sexual orientation. That's one reason I support and admire him.

Go Wes!

[Jerseycoa]

4. Oh, mom, you know

LOTS AND LOTS of 4-star generals have the brass to be an Advocate cover boy. :evilgrin:

[MidwestMomma]

5. Advocate cover boy...

He does have a well-rounded resume doesn't he? :D

[roughsatori]

6. His agreement that it is a states rights issue is the problem I have

That means that if a state wnats to take away more of my rights--or not to grant me equal status he is OK with that.

That is why racists called for states rights--they could continue to oppress legally with that strategy without fear of federal intervention. Cries of states rights in fights for equal rights are a cop out and may be used as a cover for oppression.

Equal rights is a federal issue.

[Clark Can WIN]

9. Equal rights is a federal issue. And Wesley Clark agrees with you

You must have misunderstood his position or perhaps it has been represented to you deliberately by others.

I can see where the confusion may lie however. Wesley Clark would let the State, Church Synagogue or Mosk etc., decide whether or not they chose to call a civil union a marriage or not. He is ADAMANT........ ADAMANT that no matter what label is applied that ALL persons have the same right to enter into a legal union with all of the rights, benefits and liabilities that come with a good'ol fashion' marriage.

If there is a federal mandate, that civil unions cannot be denied any of the rights or privileges of marriage in any state then that whole point of contention is mute. You say po-tay-toe, I say po-tah-toe.

As long as we all have the same civil rights, to live and work, to care for each other, to raise our families and pass on our legacies to our loved ones....... to hell with what it's called. We know what it is.

[Clark Can WIN]

7. My very best gay friend is a complete Clark freak

I talk to him every day and he is one of the most well informed politically astute persons I have ever known in my whole life.

And then there's this:



HELLO? IS THIS THING ON?

# of 2004 Presidential candiates who have posed for the cover of the advocate and done an in-depth interview?

1

[dsc]

18. edit your post

Dean also did a cover and an interview as a Presidential candidate.

[Clark Can WIN]

19. Show me, didn't see it

then I will edit.

[dsc]

21. I have the hard copy

and no scanner. It is the June or May of 2003 issue. It is labled the Dean of unions. I would assume that issues that old are archived and I am not paying to do your homework for you. You made a claim and it is flat out false.

[Clark Can WIN]

24. I never asked you to pay me to do homework, so I cant guess

where the bad vibes are coming from on that front. I thought we had a common cause.

I'm glad to see that Dean was also willing to appear and interview with advocate. It means allot to me. I guess the two outsiders are the only ones with the gravitas and the convictions to do what is right.

I hope in the future you will kindly give me the opportunity to ascertain new information or research or respond before attacking me. I would do so for you.

[dsc]

22. Here it is it was on the bottom of the page of the Clark arttcle

It was the April 1 cover.

http://www.advocate.com/html/stories/886/886_dean.asp

[dsc]

8. Two big things

One is the complete lack of record. It is hard to evaluate someone without a record to evaluate. The Republican voting record doesn't help here. Clearly at least back then he felt foreign policy was way more important. What changed?

Two is his military backround. I think many people feel that to get ahead as a military officer one needs to have very bad views about gays. It becomes a did you lie then or are you lieing now. I think he is getting over that but slowly.

I do have to say that Dean is better than Clark no matter what. Actually doing the civil unions is a huge thing. Baring Clark being for full gay marriage, and he isn't, that gives Dean the plus.

I think Clark is making headway here. If Dean drops out before he does I think more than a few gays will be on his side.

[Lefta Dissenter]

10. Lack of record?

He has fought against DADT... even when fighting it was an unpopular thing to do.

[dsc]

11. that ins't that widely known

and the effort failed (not his fault but it did). He also stayed in the service instead of quitting. To my knowledge he did enforce the policy (albeit relucantly). All of those are problems. Again, he is making headway but I think it will take a Dean or Kerry drop out to help him. Neither are likely in the near term.

[Clark Can WIN]

15. Please enlighten us as per your assertion that he enforced DADT?

Link please? otherwise you are spreading unsubstantiated rumor.

[dsc]

23. Posts 2, 20, and 22 of the following thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=193830

All provided by that infamous cabal of anti Clark people with Clark avitars. Full disclosure I am assuming that 22 accurately describes the video linked in post 20 as I can't get the link in 20 to work. Please don't accuse me of lying without at least checking your own candidate's website where the video link in post 20 comes from.

[Clark Can WIN]

25. you cannot satisfy a charge against Clark

by citing "evidence" consisting of posts on an internet message board by ? whether you believe them to be Clark supporters or not.

Weak.

[dsc]

29. there is a video on his own site

or are they not clark supporters either?

[Mobius]

26. Clark did not enforce DADT

He said in the video you showed us that it was ineffective in some units and effective in some others. He also said "I never turned anyone in" and also that he felt that since this policy was ineffective so much of the time, that it should be investigated and changed. Clark has said over and over again that gays should have the rights as any American citizens, and that serving in the Armed Forces was one of those rights. He also said he had officers come to him AFTER turning themselves in, and that quite often it made him (Clark) sad that this person had to choose between being open and serving their country. He also reiterated his stance on this issue by saying" If you had a son or daughter that was gay, would you love them? and Would you want them to have the same opportunities as every other American?"
The answer by the voter to both questions, was yes.
I hardly see how this shows Clark enforced DADT. It seems more to e that you assumed he did, because of his rank. 4 Star Generals don't engage in investigating internal matters like this, at such a low command level.

[dsc]

30. There is no way

he didn't sign orders seperating people from service. And, even he is quoted as saying he did, in post 2 of the thread I site. He was the final guy in charge. As such he had the final say.

[lcordero]

12. you know that Barry Goldwater lobbied for gay rights?

[Clark Can WIN]

13. WRONG WRONG WRONG............

I'm sure that you are truly unaware of Clark's previous advocacy for gay persons in the military. It's not something the left would attack him for and the right hasn't had a clear opportunity yet.

The truth is he has advocated an honest and open policy for gay persons to serve for many, many years. Clark has been ahead of the curve, President Clinton's "don't ask, don't tell" was too conservative for Wesley Clark.

[Taeger]

17. WADDA YOU WANT!!!!

As a four-star general, Wesley Clark can DELIVER you the rights that you want. He can end the gay discrimination in the military.

You see, when just anybody advocates ending gay discrimination in the military, it's a blowoff. But this guy has been commanding for thirty years. He was commander of NATO. He has seen the way that other military forces work with this.

He can stand in front of an opponent and say with confidence and deep knowledge that it's not an issue.

The same thing coming from most other mouths (like Howard Dean) would be ignored. They would write him off as a left wing flake who knew little or nothing about the military.

Clark is a southerner and will be taken seriously in the South on this issue. This man could be the Martin Luther King of queerness. You dissmiss him because he's not gay. But only a straight southerner of such high standing and regard can convince southerners that they're overblowing the whole issue.

Seriously, you are slapping this man in the face. He is going out on a limb for you. You are bitching because the limb isn't high enough for your liking. Have the words "Thank You" ever occurred to you.

[Clark Can WIN]

20. The single most priceless line of the entire week is:

" This man could be the Martin Luther King of queerness"

fuckin-A.

If I sat here with 10,000 monkeys and 20,000 typewriters and every dictionary known to modern man I could not have said it better.

[LandOLincoln]

32. The MLK of queerness? Wouldn't Wes have to be gay for that

analogy to hold?

[UncleJoe]

14. No pretence

"Strengthen federal protections against hate crimes. No one in this country should be the target of violence because of their appearance, religion, or sexual orientation."

I like this statement. Whenever right-wingers are asked to endorse something like this, they always resort to the same pathetic weasel words about NO ONE AT ALL being targets of violence. Clark didn't do that, and I can respect him for it.

[Clark Can WIN]

16. THANKS JOE! AND WELCOME

to DU :toast:

[newyawker99]

31. Hi UncleJoe!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Laughing Mirror]

28. Well, he is weak on the marriage issue

4. Currently, no state recognizes any legal form of marriage for same sex couples. Do you believe the civil institution of marriage (with absolutely no requirements imposed on religious institutions) should be made legally available to two committed adults of the same sex?

Oppose

Comments:

I support civil unions so that gays and lesbians have equality and full rights under the law. Families in the United States come in many shapes and sizes. Currently, most of our laws extend rights and responsibilities to only heterosexual families and explicitly exclude same-sex couples from enjoying those same rights and responsibilities. It is the best interest of our country to promote stable communities and families, this includes both heterosexual and same-sax families. Accordingly, I believe that same-sex couples shouldn’t be denied rights to pensions, health insurance, family medical leave, bereavement leave, hospital visitation, survivor benefits, and other basic legal protections that all families and children need.

5. If you do not believe that civil marriage for same-sex couples should be made available to same-sex couples on the same basis as opposite sex couples, is there any legal construct you do embrace that would extend legal recognition to same sex couples?

Comments: Yes, see answer above.