It's election time: time to become the Democratic echo chamber!

[pnwmom]

It's time to put aside our differences and join together. But only if we really want to win.

I do. I want us to take control of the House and the Senate, and to let John Conyers loose with his subpoena power.

Hillary Clinton – who is currently up for reelection to the U.S. Senate -- made a strong statement yesterday about how her husband would have acted to protect us from 9/11. And it got a lot of news coverage. Let’s put our political hats on, not our whiny, hair-splitting, perfectionistic, pie-in-the-sky hats on – shouldn’t we be glad about that? Shouldn’t we be her “echo chamber”?

I think we should all be rejoicing, not complaining, when a Democrat comes out and says something strong that benefits THE ENTIRE PARTY just before a major election. And when the media actually covers it.

Why don't so many people here get it? When the whole Republican election campaign is based around their theme that they are the National Security Party and the Dems can't keep us safe, then

ALL OF US SHOULD BE SHOUTING FROM THE ROOFTOP THAT CLINTON WOULD HAVE, GORE WOULD HAVE, KERRY WOULD HAVE, ANY DEMOCRAT WOULD HAVE -- IN THE BUILDUP TO 9/11 AND BEYOND -- FOUGHT FOR OUR SAFETY!!!!!!!!

Instead, what do we have?

A President who ignored terrorism before 9/11.
A President who gave up on capturing bin Laden so that he could start his fantasy war in Iraq.
A war that will only breed more terrorists, no matter how or when it ends.
A President who would rather USE the FEAR of terrorism than take the concrete steps that are necessary to protect us from it.

Thank you, Hillary, for your strong words. And good luck in your campaign.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/27/washington/27hillary.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[AX10]

1. The key is right here:

" think we should all be rejoicing, not complaining, when a Democrat comes out and says something strong that benefits THE ENTIRE PARTY just before a major election. And when the media actually covers it."

and here too:

"ALL OF US SHOULD BE SHOUTING FROM THE ROOFTOP THAT CLINTON WOULD HAVE, GORE WOULD HAVE, KERRY WOULD HAVE, ANY DEMOCRAT WOULD HAVE -- IN THE BUILDUP TO 9/11 AND BEYOND -- FOUGHT FOR OUR SAFETY!!!!!!!!"

[pnwmom]

2. Thank you, AX10, for your good summary! You got it.

:hi:


:dem: :dem: :dem: :dem: :dem: :dem: :dem:

[LSparkle]

3. Will continue to do so -- and not let "voter fraud" get me down

The majority of the country is with us and we must believe (at least this one last time) that our system will give us a free and fair election in November (and that the candidates who TRULY received the most votes will win).

[pnwmom]

5. Speaking of that

I learned of a good link today, from Skids. Maybe you've seen it already.

It's from an essay called "Vote Anyway" by Brian S. Julin.

SNIP

"No, I'm not a "cooincidence theorist." In fact I was active post-2004 in the exposure of fraud in Ohio and elsewhere. I'm one of the "fraudsters," the "conspiracy theorists," the "paranoid" as those who haven't bothered to study the issue call us. And I say: Vote Anyway.

"The fraud machine is not perfect, and it can be overwhelmed -- if not nationally, at least in local contests which are also important. When the media called the state of Ohio, and those who really should know better refused to investigate thoroughly, it was because of the size of the margin. In fact, the most used excuse by those who refused to open their eyes was "Well, it couldn't have changed the election anyway."

"Yes, Diebold and ES&S have taken over more territory this time around. Yes, it worked for them last time. But not every polling place is compromised, not every margin is small enough to tweak, not every BoE is full of incompetants, and some small gains have even been made by our side.

"By not voting, you make the fraud easier to hide. You do, personally. There may be plenty of blame to go around, but some of it is on you for not doing your part. You pass up an opportunity to call in a suspicious voting machine. You fail to be a potential eye witness to any shenanigans. You give the winning side the pass to say "well, my opponents just didn't get enough people out to vote." You don't get counted in an exit poll. You weaken the evidence, statistical or otherwise, that something untoward is going on."

SNIP

[janx]

4. HA--I was lucky enough to see a Patsy Madrid campaign ad

still in its infancy today...

Oh man, I can't wait until it airs!

[pnwmom]

7. What is she running for (sorry for my ignorance)?

[calimary]

6. Yes. We SHOULD be her echo chamber. I don't hear many of the

others stepping up to crowd around the microphones. We have to.

That's what propelled the bad guys to such heights. They had an echo chamber like nobody's business. We are starting from a very low-level point, but hell - almost EVERYTHING starts from such a position. You don't START at the top. You climb up to it from below. And the more of us there are, and the louder and more unavoidable we are, the more they'll have to find ways to deal with, work with, and exploit this new "trend." That's how they'll see us, but it's perfect timing. Wrong-wing hate-radio and the CONservative echo chamber have just about run their course. I read a story in "Inside Radio" that talked about - as ABC Radio gets bought up by Citadel I think it is, there WILL be changes. Changes in programming, changes in direction, changes in staffing, changes in management. Lots of staffers are looking at the exit door and at being phased out. And one of the first among them, and the most prominent, is that-smug-jerk-whose-name-rhymes-with-Vanity. Know why? Because his ratings were spotty - strong in some places, WEAK IN OTHERS, plus he costs too much to sustain when the new owners are looking to cut expenses, AND he's syndicated, based in NYC. NOT local. So, not serving the specific individual needs of LOCAL markets anymore. Which is where the article suggested changes were likely to be made. And you CAN'T serve a local market from a big-ass syndicated show in New York City by doing a local news insert at the top of the hour and "traffic at the one's" - and face your local audiences and say you're serving their needs and concerns. Besides, local talent tends to be a lot cheaper than the big, vain, coddled, overpaid network star broadcasting from midtown Manhattan, when your market is Topeka or Lake Oswego or Temecula.

When enough of the broadcast management-ownership recognizes that there's a market out here that's huge, roaring, and unrelenting, AND NOT BEING SERVED, they'll realize it's Exploitation Time! Bring on the progressives! I think we're approaching that point now. The HUGE, undeniable surge in ratings, viewers, and REALLY ardent positive feedback from so many many many people will eventually pound it through their heads: This is a HUGE potential audience that hasn't been served, whose needs have not been met. We'll be a big, tasty fruit they'll find irresistable to try to pick.

[pnwmom]

9. I think we're seeing the beginning of that, with the Keith O ratings.

We need to keep on keeping on, with the same dogged determination that the other side has shown. They're never going to give up and we can't either.

[spag68]

8. Support the Dems.

I agree with you 100%, however I have been listening to the calls on c-span all day, and I am depressed to hear so many agree with the thugs. It seems to me that so many have lost the soul of America, ie we do not torture, it is wrong, in so many ways. We don't have trials without witnesses and the accused have a chance to see the evidence against them. our country is really sick now I am losing hope for the future. I'm retired and have done my time in the workforce for 40 years, I served in the military I did all those things and now it seems to be slipping away. The 60s were easy compared to this. another thought In my dreams I see rove and his collective heads explode in Jan of 2009 as Hillary steps up to be sworm in.

[pnwmom]

10. Thank you Spag68, I know there are millions of retirees who must

be feeling the same way -- I know my mother is among them. As tempting as it might be to throw in the towel, I hope you will stay active in the fight for as long as you can . .. . for all the kids who have to grow up in this mess.

Middle aged people and older know in our bones what our country SHOULD stand for. We have to inspire the younger ones.

[fuzzyball]

30. You won't get the older folks unless the party moves to the center..

a la Hillary.

[pnwmom]

35. That doesn't fit with the older folks that I know.

Many of them are more liberal than the baby boomers or their children.

[fuzzyball]

36. Do you associate mostly with democratic and liberal circles?

In the business world I have to deal with, I see
people from both sides of the isle. Older folks are
less liberal than younger folks from my observation.

[Cerridwen]

11. Please remember, there is a better than even chance that

the callers you are hearing on c-span are part of an organized group or groups with a "phone-banking" setup. Their job is to make it appear that there are more of them than there actually are.

They have had many years of making their minority opinion appear to be representative of the majority. They are also quite good at being loud enough to drown out any opinion which is in opposition to theirs.

I hope this helps a bit.



:hi:

[calimary]

25. Bingo! Post of the Month!

"Please remember, there is a better than even chance that the callers you are hearing on c-span are part of an organized group or groups with a "phone-banking" setup. Their job is to make it appear that there are more of them than there actually are.
They have had many years of making their minority opinion appear to be representative of the majority. They are also quite good at being loud enough to drown out any opinion which is in opposition to theirs." - DUer Cerridwen, 9 27 06


Don't forget this, guys. This IS one of the weapons in their arsenal. They've had YEARS to perfect this, and to pour richard mellon scaife's money into think tanks, strategy centers, and the formation of radio networks and media monopolies. Knowledge is power. If we know this game is in play, we're better able to analyze, counter-strategize, and maybe anticipate their moves. Like chess, I suspect, even though I'm not a chess player.

[madfloridian]

12. It is because she implied other Democrats were not in the fight.

Shame on her for doing that. She is the one who has not been speaking out, and neither has her husband.

We have defended him for years.

She can call for unity and fighting back, and I am all for that....but I am not going to allow her to imply other Democrats have not been fighting.

[pnwmom]

13. How did she imply that?

[madfloridian]

14. Here.

"In her remarks, Senator Clinton also suggested that Bill Clinton’s animated defense of his own national security record as president, delivered only a few days earlier, provided a powerful example for Democrats, whom Republicans have sought to portray in recent national elections as too weak to lead the country in such perilous times."

I think my husband did a great job in demonstrating that Democrats are not going to take these attacks,” she said."

That's true, he did...but other Democrats have already been doing that. It is the first time in 5 years he has been outspoken.

And here:

" But Howard Wolfson, one of her chief advisers, made it clear that Senator Clinton would be taking an increasingly aggressive posture to thwart any Republican attempts to cast Democrats as timid on national defense this election season.

“She is not going to allow her party, her husband or herself to get Swift-boated,” he said, referring to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group that attacked the Vietnam War record of Senator John Kerry when he was the Democrats’ presidential nominee in 2004. “Democrats have to stand up and go toe to toe with Republicans on national security."

Democrats have been doing that already.

And what really concerns me is that Sunday Bill said spoke of Iraq as an "experiment." That's wrong.

"From Meet the Press on Sunday this week.

"But what’s done is done and I, I, I still think it’s important to recognize that if this Iraq experiment could be made to work now, it would be better than if it can’t. No one knows yet whether it can."

And I am terribly afraid that Colin Powell's "omelet" is not going to succeed.

"MR. CLINTON: I did. No, I—here’s what I believe: I think it’s fine to get rid of Saddam and I think it’s fine to try to build a multi-party democracy. I, I spoke to President Talabani today. I think the Kurds are doing pretty well as it is. What I believe was an error was for us to unilaterally invade before the United Nations had finished its inspections. Because we said the reason the Congress was asked to vote to approve this was to give teeth to the U.N. inspections and then to use the authority to invade if he flunked the inspections. I’m glad he’s gone, but I think we have to realize every time you’re someplace, you’re not someplace else; every dollar you spend here, you don’t spend it there. So—but we are where we are now, and since we have broken this egg, as General Powell used to say, we got to try and make an omelet. I think that, that whether this succeeds or fails now depends more on Iraqis than Americans."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14907031/page/2 /

[pnwmom]

17. For her to say that Bill did a great job in "demonstrating that Democrats

are not going to take these attacks" does not imply what the reporter says it did. You should be careful not to let a reporter's commentary affect your own view of her words.

BC , by his own words, demonstrated exactly what she said he did. When Republicans make these attacks, Democrats will fight back.

This isn't a commentary, or a criticism, of Kerry, or Gore, or anyone else.

We should speak with a united voice on this issue. The Republicans are not the party of National Security. They are the party of National Fear.
The Democrats, each and every one of them, are the people who are genuinely concerned about national security and will take intelligent measures to keep us safe.

[madfloridian]

19. I am all for unity.

I am active in the local DEC, DNC, and DFA. Just because I don't jump up and shout for Bill and Hillary right now, when others have been fighting so long....doesn't mean I am not a good Democrat.

Good for him for speaking out....he should have done it years ago. Others have been. Also he should not have said Iraq was an experiment.

Speaking out in 2003 and 2004.

[pnwmom]

22. Iraq WAS a Neo-con experiment. They had a theory, and they tested it.

It wasn't a Democratic experiment.

And it has failed, miserably.

[madfloridian]

23. I am quoting him.

From Meet the Press on Sunday this week.

"But what’s done is done and I, I, I still think it’s important to recognize that if this Iraq experiment could be made to work now, it would be better than if it can’t. No one knows yet whether it can."

I agree with you, it has failed. We knew about the Neocons here at DU years ago, and we knew Iraq was no threat. Most of our major Dems have admitted as much now, and changed their stance.

I adore the Clintons, appreciated his presidency. But too many here have forgotten that others have been begging, begging her to speak out on the war.

Too many here are posting that they finally are rallying us. That is just simply not fair. Others have been doing this much more.

[pnwmom]

26. I know you're quoting him. But you're misunderstanding him.

He isn't saying that this was HIS experiment, or that it was a Democratic-backed experiment.

He's saying that it was an experiment. Period. And he's right -- it was an experiment -- of the neo-cons. And now we have to figure out what to do with the mess that's all over the lab. All of us have to. The mess belongs to all of us now, as much as we hate it, because we live in this Republic.

And I'm not saying, great, someone's finally speaking out. I'm saying that WHENEVER people speak out like this, we should be applauding them, not trashing them. I am saying:

"ALL OF US SHOULD BE SHOUTING FROM THE ROOFTOP THAT CLINTON WOULD HAVE, GORE WOULD HAVE, KERRY WOULD HAVE, ANY DEMOCRAT WOULD HAVE -- IN THE BUILDUP TO 9/11 AND BEYOND -- FOUGHT FOR OUR SAFETY!!!!!!!!"

'Cause that's the truth.

[madfloridian]

27. Excuse me, I know it was not HIS plan.

Stop saying we are trashing him, that is not the truth.

Stop saying we did not act proud of him, that is not the truth either.

But right away to DU came all these folks saying we had stand up and shout because Big Dog had finally spoken.

Now come on, that's not fair.

And if knew Iraq was not a threat, he should have said something, or done something.

I am saying we were led down a merry path of destruction by Democrats as well as Republicans.

[pnwmom]

31. The Democrats did not have access to the intelligence that Bush

purported to have. They did not lead us down this path -- Bush did.

If Gore had been in office in 2001, we would not have gone to Iraq. Period. This was a Republican led war.

[madfloridian]

33. But we followed.

Just like the 34 who voted for the torture bill today.

Next I will be hearing that was no torture bill.

[pnwmom]

34. I would like to see who the Democrats were.

Do you have a link by any chance? I wasn't sure what to google.

[blondeatlast]

24. Media collusion, it's what's for dinner. The source is MSNBC,

for pity's sakes.

[madfloridian]

28. My quote from HIllary was from the OP's source.

My quote about what Bill said was from the Meet the Press transcript.

[pnwmom]

32. Your Hillary "quote" was the reporter's commentary on what

Hillary said. Hillary's own words stated simply that BC demonstrated that Dems would fight back . She was not implying anything negative about any other Democrat. That was the reporter's conclusion, not Hillary's.

[blondeatlast]

37. Precisely, and a good reporter does not make conclusions.

I stand on my "collusion" allegation.

Thank you.

[madfloridian]

16. Most here are very supportive of Democrats...actively so.

It is wrong to make us have to rally round one person right now.

We work hard for the party on the ground. We work hard with the DEC, the DNC, and the DFA.

[pnwmom]

18. We should be rallying around EVERY Democrat in EVERY race

in EVERY state around the country. And when they say something that makes sense -- that benefits the whole party -- we should be shouting it to the rafters!

Who said anything about rallying around one person?

[madfloridian]

20. You are doing it again.

Please don't imply that we here are not supporting all Dems.

[pnwmom]

21. If the shoe fits . . .

If it doesn't, don't.

But I see plenty of DU'ers making nasty and unjustified attacks on Dems.

[madfloridian]

29. I don't.

.

[AtomicKitten]

15. Brava!

I couldn't agree more. Pay no attention to the ankle-biting. The bigger picture is looming right before our eyes. Re-taking the House and maybe even the Senate will lull even the most cynical out of their funk.