Harold Ford Jr voted for the torture bill?????????

[Punkingal]

How can I possibly vote for him November now???? What possible reason could he have for doing this?

[Staph]

1. Grit your teeth and vote for Ford.

The only other choice is a Republican. Do you want them to maintain control of the Senate? Democratic control of the Senate means that we can change the law to something human and humane.

[Punkingal]

14. Of course I don't want them to maintain control.

And I wouldn't vote for Corker at all. But this is one vote that I simply can't abide. I just can't accept any reason he gives for doing it.

[iconocrastic]

20. I won't vote for either of them.

[Tiggeroshii]

24. you need to plug your nose and vote for him.

He's probably the only cahnce of getting us a progressive chair and a majority in the Senate. He's our only hope, even if he does stupid stuff.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bread_and_roses]

87. What makes you confident that a Dem majority will change the law?

Twelve Democrats voted for THIS law. And what? Two? Non-Democrats voted against it. How many R's + 12 does it take to pass a Bill?

[ProgressiveFighter]

94. No. Ford is a Republican. So no. No.

[sandnsea]

2. Taking over the Senate

So no more torture bills can be introduced to begin with. He can't change the mentality of the entire state by himself.

[GainesT1958]

3. He didn't want Corker hanging a "no" vote around his neck...

But he IS running in Tennessee--including east Tenn.!

My Congressman--a personal friend of mine from college days, btw--also voted for it, and I have a question for Mike about that, as he has no real, threatening Repub opposition. But Harold Ford, Jr. is in a tight race, where the slightest opening his opponent might find could turn it against him. Both of us disagree strongly with his vote, but we disagree even more with a Repub-controlled Senate where these sorts of things have no real chance of beng stopped. I guess, on this one, we have to take the long view of overlooking Ford's warts--and he has more than one of them--to get his "D" vote in the Senate.

B-)

[OwnedByFerrets]

11. So, he would sell his soul for

a undecided voter rather than vote his conscious for all we who have supported him and love an America that wants to see these criminals in jail? Yes, we Dems have NO choice. We have to vote for him, but what is the crime in voting for whats right and trusting in the constituents to vote in kind. I feel that every Democrat who votes yes for this piece of shit bill is betraying us and our constitution. Flame away. :banghead:

[pnwmom]

18. He's not selling his soul. He's being practical. He'll be a hell of a lot

more effective in changing the law if he's INSIDE the Congress than he is while he's OUTSIDE.

The Republicans have the votes to pass anything they want without ANY of our help. Our only hope for real change is wresting the majorities of the House and/or Senate away from them.

[Moochy]

40. This law is another big step towards hell

And hey look at all these good intentions we are walking on.

I realize the dire straights we are in, but I am struck by the 34 cowards. I guess I think more of the fine people of TN than does Mr Ford or his advisors.

I feel that if anyone supports this torture bill, that they are fucking fascist weasels who should be called what they are, appeasers who we *must* vote for, then take out behind the woodshed with a switch on Nov. 3rd.

But you know I have the advantage of not running for election.

[redstateblues]

95. I live in TN and I will vote for Ford. If you don't live in a red state

you have no idea what it takes for a Dem to win a statewide office. Bredesn showed it can only be done by getting moderate Rs to vote for him. Ford is a lot better than Frist or Corker.

[Divine Discontent]

100. so he can't be trusted on his votes

because he's going to worry about offending moderate repubs? sigh...

I would vote for him in a heartbeat, I'm just saying, these guys get in, and are they going to vote to protect civil rights for all? I'm not saying he has to go out and scream for marriage for gays, too, but when his vote will be needed will he be there for the Dems who are trying to help protect the workers rights against big corporations, against torture, against sending troops into harms' way unless we are being directly attacked. I sure hope to find out when he gets elected! :) (tricky ending there)

[Clark2008]

83. He's not selling his soul

Hon... we have no media but right wing - no were in the state - it's surprising that half the state is still Democratic, and it is.

He's playing close to the vest... do I agree? Fuck no! But, will I let Corker take this state without a fight. Fuck no, even harder!!

:hug: (I had a Ferret named Bandit for years. Sweet lil boy!)

[kstewart33]

4. He's from Tennessee and he wants to win.

What did you expect?

[fuzzyball]

46. In other words he can never be trusted on his votes?

[OhioBlue]

5. I don't understand it either

but, I am not a one issue voter or a one vote supporter. I don't intend to minimize the importance of this vote - because it is very important and I'm very disappointed in our Dems that voted for it.

However, I won't withdraw my support based on a vote in Congress. I know what the Democratic party represents and I know what the Republican party represents. There is no way I will vote for a Republican this year and there is no way I will withdraw my volunteer efforts or financial contributions to get more Democrats elected.

We can find a vote in any Congressional Rep's history that we won't agree with (maybe not as important as this... but none the less..). But, the time to make the respective Reps answer for their votes is in Primaries. We simply cannot afford to lose this year. There are no longer two parties. There are no choices in a General anymore. The Neo Cons, the Religious Right, the Bush Cabal - whatever it is - they have high jacked our Democracy and the Republicans in office have ceased to be Statesmen and women - they have become political operatives, apologists, and pawns. It's done. We as a Country cannot afford anymore of the Conservative think-tank inspired wars or policies. We HAVE to stop the absolute craziness. The first step is to elect Dems. the next step is to make Dems answer for their votes in future Primaries.

[madfloridian]

6. We have voted against gays, women's rights, and now for torture...

So that we won't have to worry about having it done when we take the power back.

There is a whole apologia for the torture vote on the front page of Kos.

See, you just don't understand. If we vote against all those issues now, we won't have to do it later.

On edit, that is sarcasm, sort of. I am not sure if it is blend of sarcasm and bitterness...maybe it is.

We have voted with them so long, we think we have to.

[PassingFair]

86. I am SICK, Mad.

I have been crying.

We can't fight them in the PRIMARIES, because we're not supposed to make
them spend MONEY against our OWN. :puke:

We can't fight them in the GENERAL, because we're supposed to suck it up
to win the elusive "majority" we NEVER WIN. :puke:


DEBBIE STABENOW BETRAYED MICHIGAN DEMOCRATS.

[cboy4]

7. I want him to win because it would better than having an (R) -- but if

I had to vote for him, I would be holding my nose with both hands while I did so.....that's for sure.

[n2doc]

8. another gutless pol

And if he wins then he will be a gutless senator who will not vote to impeach W, will vote for W's supreme court nominees, etc. etc. , all because he is "in a red state" and "can't rock the boat". SORRY. Some things are more important than getting elected. And I think we just saw which pols were more interested in getting elected than in providing leadership. I think Ford will lose votes on this.

[politicasista]

10. He is NOT gutless

Doesn't Dem bashing get tiring around here? Guess not.

[Moochy]

12. We Gotta legalize torture in order to stop torture

Keep that powder dry!!! :eyes:

[pnwmom]

19. We have to get a majority in either the House or Senate

before we can get real changes, because they have enough votes to pass ANY bill without any of our help.

[Moochy]

35. You are correct

We must win, but must we give up our souls to do it? I guess so. :shrug:

Conyers with Subpoena! now how safe is his seat?

[fuzzyball]

47. So Ford whoring his votes for a possible win is not gutless?

then WTF is ????

[pnwmom]

50. I just don't want him to be WIN-LESS.

The guts we can worry about later -- after the Dems have their majorities.

[n2doc]

67. So you are saying Torture is OK?

Whatever. I guess he has the guts to vote for torture. Whatever. go dems.

[politicasista]

76. Torture is NOT ok

I am very disappointed that he voted for the torture bill, but he is far from gutless. His campaingn ads are hard hitting and he is appealing to conservative young and old. Though I don't agree with a lot of his stances, he is going to need all the help he can get to win this state in November.

[pnwmom]

21. You're wrong. Nothing is more important in this election

than winning every Democratic seat in the House and the Senate that we possibly can. It doesn't matter a bit how conservative Harold Ford is. He'll be a Democrat, and we'll be one vote closer to having John Conyers in the driver's seat.

I assume John Conyers is pure enough for you.

Having a majority will be the only way we will be able to head any committees, issue any subpoenas, perform any oversight, or prevent any of Bush's bills from passing. He never aims for concensus. He has a bare majority and that's all he needs to win every vote that he wants.

[Eric J in MN]

28. Harold Ford is running for US Senate from TN.

His victory wouldn't directly help John Conyers in the House.

[fujiyama]

44. But it does replace Hatch or whichever repuke heads the judiciary commitee

with a Dem.

That's good enough for me. It also replaces the heads of every other commitee.

Ford sucks. There is little question. And I'm not going to defend his appaling vote for this. He's not terribly gutsy (though he did almost take out Schmidt), BUT...

He's from TN, a state that went for Bush by 14 points. It hasn't been very easy ground for Dems in recent years.

I already noted above why winning control of both houses is vital to even ATTEMPT to get this country back on a track towards sanity.

[pnwmom]

51. You're right. It will help whoever will be the leader in the Senate.

Who will be infinitely preferable to the Rethug we have now.

[fuzzyball]

48. What good is a majority of Repug lites?

You want more votes for more IWR's?
More votes for torture?
More votes bashing gays?

SO in your eyes if there is a (D) behind their name
that makes all OK????

[cali]

52. It's clear you don't understand the most basic

elements of politics. It's simple: Harold Ford in the Senate means a dem majority and that means no more wars of choice and no more torture. It puts Pat Leahy, one of the most anti-torture Senators back as chair of the Judiciary, and if you think Leahy will let any of bush's radical picks for the SC through, you're nuts. It puts Kennedy in as chair of Health and Education, and it puts good libs in other chairmanships. It's about holding the majority. Btw, Sherrod Brown, who's in a close race in Ohio also voted for it. Initially, I was disappointed, as Brown is one of the most progressive members of the House, but if this gets him in the Senate, that's fine with me. No way is he doing it for anything but political expediency. He'll reverse himself the second he's elected. Is that duplicitous? Yes, but this year, winning is so important, I'll forgive it.

[fuzzyball]

79. Kerry, H CLinton, Edwards and other dems all voted for IWR....

and there is nothing wrong with that since none
of them are totally-anti-war.

The only argument I have is with those who are
saying "EVEN IF YOU ARE ANTI-WAR vote for Ford"
because he is a democrat. In other words put aside
your principles and vote as I tell you because
it is better for Kennedy, COnyers & Levin.

[cali]

92. Not because it's better for Kennedy et al

but because it's better for us.

[pnwmom]

53. Very few are " Rethug lites" Dems cover a spectrum of opinion, but

the vast majority vote nothing like the vast majority of Republicans.

Check their voting records. In the Senate, for example, www.ProgressivePunch.com shows the vast majority of Democrats with scores on progressive issues of 70% and above. The vast majority of Republicans? 15% and below.

The same kind of disparity shows up on the largest Republican voter record site. Dems like Hillary Clinton score 12% and below, while Republicans mostly score in the 90's.

In my eyes if there's a D beside their name then we're one vote closer to getting a majority in the House and the Senate. And once we have the majority, we'll finally have Committee heads able to issue subpoenas and a Congress able to exercise the oversight of the Executive branch that our Constitution calls for.

[fuzzyball]

81. Thank you for taking time to respond...

But again expect votes from the centrist democrats
which will not be to the liking of those who consider
themselves at the far left end.

[Don1]

73. even if conyers gets in

will it matter? pelosi said impeachment is off the table if dems get a majority. where's the accountability?

[Auntie Bush]

85. If our fellow Dems all think like you, with anger, we'll lose control of

congress and which is worse...A Dem who was saving his ass or selling his soul or a Rethugican to vote for the next SC judge?

Yes, we are ALL ANGRY as HELL...and it's OK to get it out of our systems, but when we refuse to vote we're doing George Bush's bidding. Don't you think that was one of Rove's plans. Don't fall for it. Show your anger in another way. VOTE straight Democrat even if you like some Rethug (even if he's/she's a relative) and get those BASTARDS out of office and take back congress! Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

But :yourock: for your thoughts but not your actions if you don't vote.

[bobbolink]

9. What possible reason? Gee, maybe .... DLC??

[pnwmom]

22. Or, gee, maybe his constituency? He's not from NYC.

[Punkingal]

25. Yeah, well everyone in Tennessee is not an idiot.

I'm part of his constituency, and I think this is the worst thing anyone could EVER vote yes for.

[Moochy]

29. I'm guessing he made a calculated decision

...that enough of your neighbors think otherwise. :shrug:

Let it be known that I think that the Dems should have been UNANIMOUSLY opposed to this bill on moral grounds, and ran on this issue, but others think that we can undo the damage to the country once the democrats are in power in one of the houses. I'm hoping they are keeping a backup copy of the bill of rights and constitution somewhere... :P

Yay torture! :patriot:

[Punkingal]

31. Well, I am beginning to be very damn cynical.

We keep hoping sooner or later the Democrats will take a stand, but they never do anymore. Never. I am completely demoralized about this. Just demoralized. It is the last straw.

[Moochy]

34. Maybe Conyers with Subpoena power is worth it?

Conyers with Subpoena ... Conyers with Subpoena Power!!

Like others have said, hold yer nose, call his office and demand an explanation...
But vote for the blue dog DINO.

Too bad we just gotta legalize torture to get there! :mad:

[Punkingal]

36. Yeah, I love Conyers, always have....

Maybe he'll take little Harold in a back room and slap his ass around a little bit?

[pnwmom]

55. I agree, Moochy, it stinks.

But the time for us to go screaming to them EN MASSE is when they actually have some power. Not now, when Bush has the votes to pass anything he wants. (Or does a little signing end-run around anything he doesn't like.)

[Moochy]

70. It lifted my spirits this morning

To hear about a protest in front of Dianne Feinstein's office. Not that she listens to the leftist radicals who are opposed to torture in her home state. I only wish that more people in this fucked up country were not so morally bankrupt as to rationalize the horrors of Abu Ghraib, for reasons of racism xenophobia, or just plain old apathy.

Oh and no, I didnt go to the protest since I have to go to work. Funny how that works out doesnt it? :(

[pnwmom]

54. Please try to hang in there, Punkingal, at least until the election.

I know how discouraging it is, but we can't give up.

:hi:

[Punkingal]

63. Oh, I won't give up.

And I will vote for him, but I needed to SCREAM last night, and this was the only place to do it.

[pnwmom]

69. I know, believe me I know.

On top of everything else, I have two teenage sons. I get sick whenever I think about what Bush may have up his sleeve next.

[Divine Discontent]

101. don't fret

because when they get in and IF they don't start changing the shit bush pushed through, then I'll be right with you and MILLIONS of other Dems who flock to a third party we make up. But, I'm not worrying about that now, I believe they will do everything we want them to, generally, because they know bush has usurped so much power it's scary... scary I say!!!

damn wingnuts.

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- antibush prodem stickers/shirts

[liberalpress]

75. Look here's the deal..

... Ford will win west tennessee, easy. I give him a better than even chance min middle, but he's a black man running for senate. If he gets a dozen votes in east tennessee, I'll be surprised. He has to get disenfranchised repubs, or we're back of the bus again. To tell the truth, he's not my favorite Dem. But he WILL get my vote in November, because if the dems lose this time the party is literally over

[msongs]

13. maybe its ok to torture gays/lesbians who want to marry other G/L? nt

[Punkingal]

17. No, of course it isn't.

Did I say it was? I personally am fed up with cowardly Democrats who can't vote for what is right. I happen to think gays/lesbians have as much right to marry each other as anyone else does. Does Ford oppose that, too?

[Divine Discontent]

102. you know that answer as well as I do

regardless what he feels in his heart. he knows that in TN there's little chance of a black man getting elected who is pro gay marriage. Of course, that's upsetting. But, times change, not so long ago the mere THOUGHT of a black man polling 45% in TENN would've been completely laughable (even 25 years ago!)

so I'm keeping my hopes up that when we win the house, and tighten or win the senate (I'm hoping CLAIRE can win in MISSOURI, Bono or someone needs to go there and help tip this balance for the dems), that more liberal and compassionate views will start to grow.

peace to you friend!

[skipos]

15. "How can I possibly vote for him November now?"

For the same reason that people should have voted for Gore even though he failed many progressive's litmus tests: he is MUCH better for the country than the Republican candidate.

Having Ford replace Frist would be great in my opinion. But if it makes you feel any better, Ford very well might lose and you can be stuck with Corker, who will most likely vote the way you like 0% of the time.

[Punkingal]

16. Oh, yeah, it would make me feel better to have Corker.

Did I say I would vote for Corker? No, I didn't, and I won't, but I want an explanation why Ford voted for this bill. This is the worst yes vote in the history of this country as far as I am concerned. I can't imagine any justification for it. Appeasing East Tennessee just isn't good enough.

[onenote]

72. not voting for Ford = facilitating election of Corker

Dance around that as much as you can, but its the truth.

[ShortnFiery]

64. Because in many Congressional Races, it's only a choice

between "Chickenshit" and "Pure Evil."

At least a Chickenshit Democratic Congress won't pass any further laws to degrade our Constitutional Rights.

Yes, as disgusting as it sounds on the surface, I'll avidly choose "gutless" over "evil" especially with all the Psychopaths in Our Executive Branch.

[pnwmom]

23. The best reason to vote for him: if the Democrats win a majority

we'll have a Democratic majority leader and Democrats heading all the committees, issuing subpoenas, and exercising essential oversight, as per the Constitution.

[Tatiana]

26. Hold your nose and vote for him. He's better than the alternative.

To be fair, he's in a conservative state and, his constituency isn't exactly the same as New York or Massachusetts. It's a painful pill to swallow; Ford is a conservative Democrat, but he does stick with the party on most other important issues.

His vote is indicative of the fact that we don't need to take over simple Houses and Senates. We need to take back this nation and its citizenry; educating and reminding us everyone of the ideals America truly represents. As long as we stoop to the level of terrorists, we are putting our civilians and military personnel at grave risk.

[Eric J in MN]

30. Well put.

To spread liberal values:

We need "Air America Radio" on FM in all the big cities.

We need a liberal TV news network.

[fuzzyball]

49. In other words sell your principles down the river and

whore yourself for a meaningless "win"?
Sorry, torture of human beings is beyond the pail.
Whoring your vote for a "possible" win is gutless.

[pnwmom]

56. It woud be anything but a meaningless win. It would be a win that would

put people like Patrick Leahy, Ted Kennedy, and John Conyers in charge of committees again, with full power to direct new legislation and to issue subpoenas and exercise oversight versus the Executive branch.

This isn't gutless. It's just NOT STUPID.

[fuzzyball]

77. You defined it...blind party politics without principles....n/t

[Tatiana]

80. We can't do anything without a MAJORITY.

The first step is obtaining a majority and, unfortunately, the only way we can do so at this point in time is to elect folks like Ford Jr. Once we have a majority, then we can move on to replacing conservative Dems with people that have more progressive views. But we're not going to do ourselves any good by electing Republicans.

Like it or not, it's either Harold Ford Jr. or a REPUBLICAN. The choice is clear.

[Cascadian]

89. If I were in his district, I would reluctantly vote for him.

VERY VERY reluctantly vote for him. Like I said, the political system in this country has become a joke. The reason it is a farce is the lack of choices we have. Harold Ford by all means would never be my first choice though the GOP choice would be worse. I must admit though, the Democratic Party must get rid of these Neocon enablers if this party and this democracy is going to continue.

John

[Eric J in MN]

27. Don't donate to him after this; don't volunteer for him after this....

...but still vote for him.

Voting isn't maximum support. It's minimal support for a candidate who may only be slightly better than his opponent.

[Punkingal]

32. I certainly won't volunteer, or donate again.

And next time he's around, you can bet I am gonna have a question or two for him, too. I am just going nuts over this....head-banging nuts over it.:banghead:

[Rowdyboy]

33. Absolutely.....You have a chance to help improve all our lives....Please

reconsider. Please...

[Punkingal]

37. Hey, I know I have to vote for him.

But I have the right to be PISSED OFF at this vote.

[Eric J in MN]

38. Absolutely.

Sherrod Brown voted for this. I don't live in Ohio and so I couldn't vote for him anyway, but it's changed my mind about giving him another donation.

[Rowdyboy]

43. Oh I fully understand being PISSED OFF after voting..I live in Mississippi

I don't ever remember NOT being pissed after voting. But please, grit your teeth and do it for all of us. I don't know if we can make it much longer with these freaks in control.

[pnwmom]

58. You sure do, Punkingal. And to let him know it.

And once the election is over, it's time for us ALL to get back on their cases. Agreed?

In the meantime, here's a NYT article you might be interested in.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/28/us/politics/28senate.html?hp&ex=1159416000&en=582f125a7c4abeb0&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Republican Senate candidates are getting a major boost from the Republican National Committee, which is financing an advertising campaign so far focused largely on Missouri, Ohio and Tennessee. This is widely viewed as a firewall strategy: If Republicans hold onto even one of those seats, it stymies the Democrats’ hopes of regaining a majority.

SNIP

Republicans also argue that six weeks out, many voters are only beginning to pay attention. In Tennessee, for example, Ben Mitchell, campaign manager for the Republican Senate candidate, former Mayor Bob Corker of Chattanooga, said voters would reject Mr. Ford when they learned about his voting record, which Republicans assert is at odds with his centrist image.

SNIP

Perhaps the most unexpected development this year is the competition in two Southern states. Democrats have fared poorly in the South in recent years, which has accounted, in large part, for their difficulty in gaining a Senate majority.

Tennessee, where the seat is held by the retiring majority leader, Bill Frist, is drawing intense interest from national Republicans. President Bush was in Memphis on Wednesday to raise money for Mr. Corker.

SNIP

Moral of the story: if you want to stick it to Bush, vote for Ford. He is NOT their man. And taking him down is a critical piece of their strategy.

[fujiyama]

45. Great point...I think it shows practicality

yet makes clear the dissatisfaction with a certain candidate.

If an unenthusastic vote is the most someone can do then fine- that's better than letting a repuke keep control of a seat.

[pnwmom]

57. He's FAR better than his opponent

because he could help make Dem Senators like Patrick Leahy and Ted Kennedy the chairs of Committees again, and the Congress could exercise its responsiblility to supervise the Executive branch.

[AtomicKitten]

39. I don't envy you.

This is truly repulsive. However, Ford is running, as you well know, in a red state. Unfortunately this is another vote put up before an election by the GOP daring the Dems to do the right thing at the risk of being pegged weak on terror.

My condolences to you.

[Punkingal]

41. Thank you for your condolences.

I am just going nuts about this. I suppose it is irrational, but I should have been in bed hours ago, and I can't get to sleep because of it. It makes me sick to my stomach, as well as enraged.

[Tom Rinaldo]

42. Plan to vote for Ford, but pick two Democrats you truly respect...

...and work hard to get them elected also, even if they aren't running in your state. We do have to change the Democratic Party, but we also have to oust Republicans from controlling the Senate now. Possible war with Iran is looming if neocon power isn't checked in Washington. Ford will vote for Reid to head the Senate, and even with this vote he is still better than his opponent. So electing Ford still moves the ball in a positive direction. So I urge you to do what you must for Ford but adopt the campaigns of two strong Democrat who you fully respect, and put your heart and soul into getting them elected also. That will help our cause and hopefully help you feel better about what you need to do.

On Edit: Sorry I attached this in the wrong place, I meant to respond directly to the OP

[pnwmom]

59. Good idea, Tom. n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

60. You need to get over it

Would you rather have Harry Reid or Mitch McConnell as Senate Majority Leader next year? TN is not a liberal state. Ford didn't get to a statistical tie in the polls by compiling a liberal voting record.

[Punkingal]

65. Yeah, I need to get over it.

I will NEVER get over him voting for a torture bill. NEVER. I will vote for him, but I won't get over it.

[AzDar]

61. First, we get rid of the Fascists...then we go after their enablers.

You should vote Ford, IMHO.

[sampsonblk]

66. That's the ticket

Best idea of the day.

[OwnedByFerrets]

68. I'm gonna jump in again here because its been bothering me

tremendously.

#1 How do we know that Ford(any Democrat that voted yes to this bill) isnt voting for this bill because he Agrees with it. Has he come out and said that he is only voting for it because he doesnt want his vote hung around his neck? Of course not. So how do we really know how he feels? No, we have to guess. Why? Because he doesnt have the guts to say NO to torture. Then we would have proof of where he stands.

#2 I'm tired of getting my vote getting taken for granted. By voting Yes on this piece of shit, he is "assuming" that I'm going to vote for him anyway. Why is that? I'm not a sheeple like the repugs are. I want someone to respect my vote, not take it for granted.

#3 What "if" those undecided voters were waiting on ONE important issue to hang their voting hat on? And what if this were it? Now, they might as well stay at home because all their options are the same.

#4 We as Democrats have been touting our "differences" to repugs. How can this be done when they are voting lock-step with them on key issues? I want a strong Democrat to vote for, not some repug appeaser.

[charlottelouise]

71. The letter I just sent

Dear Representative Ford --

I suppose I understand why you voted for the Military Commissions Act; your chances of being elected to the Senate would completely vanish if you were to have voted against this legislation.

I suppose that it will be better for Tennessee and the US to have a Democratic majority in the Senate; there's always a slight chance that a Democratic Senate might possibly decide to put a stop to the atrocities and war crimes being committed by the current administration. I don't think it's likely, but there's always the hope, and certainly continued Republican control of Congress will only lead to far worse than we've already seen.

I suppose I do understand that we all have to do things that we don't like, in order that we can accomplish our long-term goals. Isn't there any limit, though? What possible good can come of voting for legislation authorizing torture, eroding the right of habeas corpus and permitting secret trials? What possible good could it to win a so-called “war on terror” (assuming that that “war” is anything more another lie from the White House) if we eliminate our basic civil rights and freedoms?

Representative Ford, I will vote for you in November. The alternative is far, far worse. But don't expect me to do so with any pleasure -- I will walk out of the polling place knowing that I have voted for a man who seems to agree that basic humane treatment doesn’t apply to people with brown skins (or, I fear, anyone who dares to disagree with those in power) the Geneva Conventions are “quaint”, and that civil rights are just a luxury.

[AX10]

74. Well, he is running in quite an archaic place (Tennesee).

He probably doesn't want this vote hung around his neck by "Kookie Corker".

[Imagevision]

78. Yeah well, get over it, Ford is good, vote for him... Obama said so!

[Punkingal]

91. I will vote for him.

But I won't get over it. Never. I don't care who says he's good. He is a chickenshit, willing to do anything to get elected, and I have to aid and abet him. It makes me sick.

[Clark2008]

82. Yes - and you're still voting for him for this reason:

John Conyers as chair of the House Judiciary Committee and Patrick Leahy as chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee and Carl Levin as chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee and Jim Jeffords as chair of the Senate Environmental Committee and Ted Kennedy as chair of the Senate Help Committee and Max Baucus as chair of the Senate Finance Committee and John Rockefeller as chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee and Joe Biden as chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and Bart Gordon as chair of the House Science Committee and Jane Harmon as chair of the House Intelligence Committee and so forth and so on.

Get it?


Got it?

Good!!

[Imagevision]

84. Didn't get it, don't get it!!

[Cascadian]

88. We have no real alternatives and that is sad!

What is the story with these mistakes these lawmakers in the Democratic Party are making? Congressman Ford made a big mistake in supporting torture. This disappoints me and the only arguement anybody can come up with is "at least he's not a Republican." For chrissakes! HE VOTED FOR TORTURE!!!! :grr: (I had a Mike Malloy moment there!) And what is sad is these are the choices we have. People have to vote for Ford just to keep the Republican opponent out. Yet he votes with the Republicans in this instance. Politics in this country have become a stinking joke! The Democratic Party can no longer afford these Neocon enablers anymore.


John

[Poll_Blind]

103. Well-said. n/t

PB

[truebrit71]

90. ..and the wiretapping bill....

..he hit the chickenshit switch twice today....

[Snivi Yllom]

93. harold Ford is a right leaning moderate similar to Joe Lieberman

If you like Lieberman, ford is for you. If you hate Lieberman, Ford will make you pull your hair out.

[Claire Beth]

96. I still support Harold Ford, Jr....

though I am NOT in favor of his voting for the torture bill. This bill was designed to help the repukes WIN in the mid-term elections. It is no mistake it was brought to vote right before the mid-term elections. Ford did what he had to do. We Tennesseans have two choices in this election...and none of us want Bob Porker who will ALWAYS vote with Bush and GOPERS.

:dem:

[Lars39]

97. He is a New Democrat.

A Lieberman creation. I haven't looked at the list of those that voted for the torture bill, but I'd hazard a guess that were quite a few New Democrats among those that approved it.

[KoKo]

98. Biden said on Imus this a.m. that his sons went to College with Ford and

were friendly with him and he could vouch that Ford was a great guy. :eyes:

This OP is going to have to "hold their nose" and vote for him like another poster said. If one compares Biden and Ford to Roberts or Stevens or "Huckleberry, Torture Graham" then even a New Democrat as DINO as they are is better than a RW Conservative Repug with an agenda that will never be changed.

[Lars39]

99. I'm among the nose-holders in TN,too.

:(

[Eric J in MN]

104. In federal elections, vote for the Democratic Party, not the person.

Even assuming for a second that Harold Ford is as bad as his Republican opponent, a Ford victory helps us towards a Democratic Senate which can investigate Bush.