centrists - y'all were right.

[ulysses]

I'm not part, never was part, of the party's base. I'm not sure where I got such a crazy idea - positive on labor rights, a woman's rights over her own body, rights to be left the hell alone in your bedroom. Anti-torture, generally pro-peace, considers public education a great idea.

What was I thinking?

[Jim Sagle]

1. You dangerous lefty loony, you.

:sarcasm:

[ulysses]

2. I know!

Somebody stop me before I, like, liberate someone.

[ulysses]

3. aw, c'mon.

Don't pout, y'all - I'm giving in!

[welshTerrier2]

4. pro-peace ... really ????

nobody's "pro-peace" anymore ... what kind of crap is that?

we are now tough on defense ... this means that we can challenge only the tactics of how our political opponents are "prosecuting the war"; we are forbidden to object to the war itself ... do you want the party to lose because we are seen as weak on defense? what the hell is the matter with you? don't you read?

next you'll be telling me we should cut all those "wasteful weapons systems" out of the "defense" budget ... you can't be that lame, can you? sheesh ... don't you know this country was attacked on 9/11 and as tough on defense Democrats, we're supposed to voice our full support for wasteful weapons systems ... and don't you dare start whining about defense industry lobbyists either! what are ya, anti-business? is there something wrong with making a buck?

sheesh ... you lefties just kill me ... if we listened to you, we wouldn't be in control of the House or the Senate or the White House ... thank god we never listen to you ...

[ulysses]

7. heh - new bumpersticker idea...

I was pro-peace *before* the body bags started coming home.

[Don1]

13. Right On.

We should just be asking for the resignation of Rumsfeld and nothing more. Seriously, a strong, clear, consistent message is how to win elections. Democrats are in a tight spot because of this. If they say something so simple as that they are pro-peace they will be labeled as cut-and-runners and they speculate they will lose. So, they try to grab the moderate vote by talking about the handling of the war, like you say. Now, this tactic disenfranchizes the far left and some progressives like us. The best we can do is have faith in the party. It may not be the best answer for you, but I would say try it out for now and then let's see what happens when they take the majority of the House and/or Senate.

[The Magistrate]

5. Since We Are In Agreement On All Those Items, My Friend

Why do we have differences on some of the nominees and office-holders of the Democratic party? In my view, it remains the best practical course to advance those items, or at the least prevent further deterioration, to secure defeat of the Republicans at both national and local levels. The Democratic Party, flaws and all, is the only engine by which that can be done.

[ulysses]

8. I suppose the tension is where it always was, between

political expediency and the achievement of the goals that brought us here in the first place.

The Democratic Party, flaws and all, is the only engine by which that can be done.

True, but if it fails to do those things, or even works against them for a time, it's no great mystery that those who still believe in those things might look for alternatives. As I've mentioned before, Clinton's welfare reform in 1996 was what first lost my vote for my party.

[bling bling]

6. I really hate it that the Republicans have defined "liberal"

as being ANYTHING they don't like. If the Republicans think it's wrong, then they slap the label "liberal" on it and our side suddenly owns whatever it was. It's so frustrating. Especially because they've been very effective at making the word liberal a bad word in and of itself.

I hope the "lefty's" and the "centrists" don't start doing that kind of bullshit labeling/defining of each other. Personally, I would consider myself a centrist but I don't know why you would think I'd disagree with you on anything you mentioned in the OP. Since when are centrists anti-labor rights, anti-women's rights, anti-privacy, pro-torture, anti-peace, and anti-public education?

I must not have gotten the memo. Is "centrist" now a bad word too?

[ulysses]

9. it's logical, I suppose.

I can't recall how many times I've been referred to on DU as some version of a "leftist crazy" or some such. Therefore, if these things in which I believe make me such a winger, it stands to reason that a mainstream centrist and member of the party base will not believe in them.

:shrug:

[Q]

12. "Centrist" shouldn't be considered a bad word...

...but to answer your question:

"Since when are centrists anti-labor rights, anti-women's rights, anti-privacy, pro-torture, anti-peace, and anti-public education?"

-- Since those who called themselves 'centrists' formed the DLC.

[bling bling]

14. I'm still confused, then.

Which member(s) of the DLC are advocates of:

1) anti-labor
2) anti-women's rights
3) anti-privacy
4) pro-torture
5) anti-peace
6) anti-public education

This is a serious question. I strongly support/oppose the same issues that the OP mentioned. And as far as I know/knew, the DLC members such as Clinton and Kerry were on our side on these issues too. Was I wrong?

[ulysses]

15. just take number 1

and look at what NAFTA and CAFTA do.

[FogerRox]

10. So how about..

-Clean Air
-Clean water
-Support of labor Unions
-Enforce EPA laws
-Enforce OSHA Laws
-Negotiate with our main strategic competitors

Sounds like liberal policy too... right? No its not. That is what Richard Nixon did. Those are mainstream Republican Policies in 1968 to 1974. I don't buy that there has been that much swing on the political pendulum since then.

I say its mainstream policy, good for the majority of Americans. But now its called being a LIBERAL. Well I got news for ya'll, the Liberal Party is dead. Used to be the Communist party was a big deal, used to be the NY Liberal party was a big deal. True Liberalism died in the 1970's, like Communism died as did Liberalism, because they didn't work. However, what is called liberal today does work, FDR proved that. AS did JFK. ANd we all know where we would be if Jimmy Carters Energy policies had been left intact.

SO call me a LIB, but in my heart I know I am a centrist, a mainstream Democrat.

I still think BIll Clinton was the best Republican President ever. ANd I don't like what the DLC is doing, and Joe Leiberman sucks.

I consider Social Security to be mainstream, unemployment too. FDR started that.
I consider a good Energy Policy to be national security, Carter knew that in the 1970's, remember the "MORAL EQUIVALENT OF WAR"? Good Lord Carter was SOOOOoooo right when you consider where we are now.

I'll let ya'll in on a little secret, I love being called a "LIB", its so cool. OK, I had my 2 cents.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DancingBear]

16. Just wait until you get called an "enabler"

for trying to talk about the pile of dirty laundry that is sitting out back.

Everyone knows it's dirty, but the pile on the other side of the street is even worse, so it's OK to stink just a little.

Even if you eventually, over time, land up smelling just as bad.

The premise that everyone should actually be looking for clean clothes has been missed.

Looney Tunes.