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Hoppin_Mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 05:46 AM
Original message
The Neocon Imperialist in Kerry's Kamp - Rand Beers - Why's he there ?
Kerry's Drug War Zealot

By SEAN DONAHUE

"When Rand Beers quit his job as counter-terrorism advisor to President Bush, and signed up with John Kerry's presidential campaign, he quickly became a hero to Democratic Party loyalists and the "Anybody but Bush" crowd. But Beers, who has become Kerry's top national security advisor and would likely serve as National Security Advisor or Secretary of State in a Kerry administration, has a dark history. Under Presidents Clinton and Bush, he served as Assistant Secretary of State for International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs, and was one of the chief architects of and apologists for the United States' cruel policies in Colombia.

Beers was most closely associated with the disastrous aerial crop fumigation program the U.S. introduced in southern Colombia. The State Department hired DynCorp, a private military contractor, to fly crop dusters at high altitudes over the rainforests of southern Colombia, spraying a chemical cocktail that includes a stronger version of Monsanto's popular and controversial herbicide, Round-Up, over suspected coca fields. Beers was the public face of the fumigation program, defending and advocating for it in Congressional hearings and in the media.

-snip-


Beers went even further in defending the fumigation program when giving a sworn deposition in a lawsuit filed against DynCorp in a U.S. Federal District Court by indigenous tribes in Ecuador who claimed that their health and their crops had been damaged when herbicides sprayed in Colombia drifted over the border on the wind. Desperate to keep the suit from proceeding to trial, he argued that the fumigation program was vital to U.S. national security because it was an essential part of the war against terrorism in Colombia.  He then went a step further, stating, under oath, that "It is believed that FARC terrorists (Columbian Rebels) have received training in Al Qaida terrorist caps in Afghanistan."  

Beers' claim was, of course, absurd and unfounded. The idea that Islamic fundamentalists would align themselves with hardline Marxists halfway around the world doesn't meet the laugh test. "

http://www.counterpunch.org/donahue01262004.html

He later retracted his sworn testimony linking FARC to Al Queda and six other false statements.

"6. In paragraph 43, I made the following statement: "It is believed that FARC terrorists have received training at Al Qaida terrorist camps in Afghanistan." I wish to strike this sentence. At the time of my declaration, based on information available to me, I believed this statement to be true and correct. Based upon information made available to me subsequent to the filing of the declaration, I no longer believe this statement to be true and correct. Based on information and belief, the paragraph as revised is true and correct. "

http://www.narconews.com/beersperjury1.html

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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 05:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ah, the sweet refreshing taste of Counterpunch.
Friend to all of our Democratic candidates.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Dreaded Liberal Media,Eh?
how dare they question the dems
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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. Questioning Democratic candidates is valid
However, Counterpunch has an agenda against each and every Democratic candidate. Forgive me if I take their articles with a tiny grain of salt.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. He's in favor of fumigating Cocaine crops? We lost the crackhead vote!!!!
Now let me see hear, why would we want to get rid of cocaine? It's been so healthy for the country.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. and fumigating people with poison?
That's okay I guess?
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Actually, yeah
If they're growing cocaine, which has for decades poisoned our country and ruined an untold amount of lives, yeah. If they'd stop growing coke, there wouldn't be a problem.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. and the children are just collateral damage I assume?
If you ignore the history of the US in Colombia, the history of the US collaborating with the drug deals - then sure, maybe you could make a case that it's okay.

When major drug dealers like, say, Oliver North - whose own diaries talk about importing "kilos" of cocaine into the country - walk away scot free - and we dump poison on families in areas where drug are grown - well - you tell me. That's okay?
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mrdmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well, this is interesting
Knocking off the rain forest and anything else that breaths the air with herbicides.

The environment candidate, John Kerry better keep this Rand Beers dude on a very short leash if...
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isbister Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. Why is he there ?
He may have information about the bush White House that could prove to be useful in the General Election.

would likely serve as National Security Advisor or Secretary of State in a Kerry administration

Is this just pure speculation?
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Impossible - That Would Be Irresponsible Journalism
That would never happen in Counterpunch.
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Hoppin_Mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. Does the lack of responses say the Kerry supporters SUPPORT this guy ? -nt
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I'll say the same thing I say when they attacked Dean...
Counterpunch reaches for the extreme and hysterical whenever they write about Democrats.
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Hoppin_Mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Here's another source
Do the research yourself. Rand Beers lied under oath to try and get a lawsuit by poor Ecuadorian Indians dismissed. He spearheaded the Neo Imperial "Plan Columbia"

Google Rand Beers + Dyncorp

http://www.cacc.org.uk/articles/engqvist.html



US Assistant Secretary of State Rand Beers has admitted that he did not speak the truth when he last November declared under oath that Colombian guerrillas had received training in terrorist camps in Afghanistan

Top State Department official Rand Beers, who heads the US Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement, has rescinded a statement made under oath before a federal court that claimed that guerrillas from the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) had trained at Al Qaida camps in Afghanistan.

Beers committed perjury in an attempt to support a motion to dismiss a civil suit against US mercenary company DynCorp, the largest State Department contractor. DynCorp's mercenaries performs a host of military and support functions for the US and Colombian forces who are fighting left-wing insurgents in Colombia's civil war.

According to the UPI news agency, DynCorp and the State Department are trying to convince US District Judge Richard Roberts to dismiss a class-action lawsuit filed last September by an estimated 10,000 Ecuadorians against DynCorp because a trial could compromise the wars on both drugs and terrorism.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. And there IS a problem with hard drugs funding terrorism. Think Poppy Bush
Edited on Sat Feb-07-04 06:26 PM by blm
How the hell do you think he got that nickname? International GOVERNMENTS use drug money to fund terrorism and covert armies.

Kerry's 1997 book The New War outlines it.

Beers left Bush in DISGUST. Read the Nightline transcript. he was tired of doing the job he was ordered to do.

There is a positive aspect to having someone on your team who knows whwre the skeletons are buried. There is a positive aspect to uncovering the war on drugs in the RIGHT way.

btw...Just in case you didn't know - Kerry is for decriminalizing pot. He said his prosecutors would NOT go after pot users.

He got an A- rating from a pot org. that gave Kucinich an A+ and Dean and others Ds and Fs.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Just like last thread on this, Kerry people have NO REPLY
A few days ago, we had exactly the same discussion with
exactly the same Kerry defeneders:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=263304

My thread didn't last long because no one on the other side
had one fact about Mr. Beers since he has joined the Kerry
campaign.

I got the same "how dare you attack the front-runner" baloney.
If this guy worked for Dean, we would hear how this proves
what a phony, reactionary Dean is.

This guy is ICKY. Why don't the Kerry supporters own up to
it now before Bush uses it against Kerry, should he Kerry
win the nomination?

Answer: because that would be telling.

arendt
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Rand Beers left Bush out of disgust. Go read the Nightline transcript.
.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. And....what has he been doing since then? No answers.
You are a master at ducking this question.

I don't really care why he left Bush, because he has done
nothing VISIBLE for Kerry; and I don't think I'm ready to
applaud Kerry for running his own secret government.
So, until Beers does something good, as far as I'm concerned,
his whole bit is nothing but "a falling out among thieves".

arendt
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. I don't duck that question, at all.
I've posted here many times that Kerry has a great team he's assembled to take down Bush in the general election.

THAT'S the plan. He has the top experts in a few areas that can batter BushInc, through November.

Gary Hart, Rand Beers, William Perry, Joe Wilson, and others from the intel community who have lined up with Kerry, all with the solid credentials and inner knowledge needed to piece together every puzzle.

This is material for a general election fight.
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Hoppin_Mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I never saw your thread - VERY informative - Beers is a dangerous perjurer
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Former Aide Takes Aim at War on Terror
Edited on Sat Feb-07-04 08:43 PM by bigtree
By Laura Blumenfeld
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, June 16, 2003; Page A01


No single issue has defined the Bush presidency more than fighting terrorism. And no issue has both animated and intimidated Democrats. Into this tricky intersection of terrorism, policy and politics steps Beers, a lifelong bureaucrat, unassuming and tight-lipped until now. He is an unlikely insurgent. He served on the NSC under Presidents Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton and the current Bush. The oath of office hangs on the wall by his bed; he tears up when he watches "The West Wing." Yet Beers decided that he wanted out, and he is offering a rare glimpse in.

"Counterterrorism is like a team sport. The game is deadly. There has to be offense and defense," Beers said. "The Bush administration is primarily offense, and not into teamwork."

In a series of interviews, Beers, 60, critiqued Bush's war on terrorism. He is a man in transition, alternately reluctant about and empowered by his criticism of the government. After 35 years of issuing measured statements from inside intelligence circles, he speaks more like a public servant than a public figure. Much of what he knows is classified and cannot be discussed. Nevertheless, Beers will say that the administration is "underestimating the enemy." It has failed to address the root causes of terror, he said. "The difficult, long-term issues both at home and abroad have been avoided, neglected or shortchanged and generally underfunded."

The focus on Iraq has robbed domestic security of manpower, brainpower and money, he said. The Iraq war created fissures in the United States' counterterrorism alliances, he said, and could breed a new generation of al Qaeda recruits. Many of his government colleagues, he said, thought Iraq was an "ill-conceived and poorly executed strategy."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A62941-2003Jun15¬Found=true

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/opinion/


Ex-Bush Aide: Terror War A Bust
CBS Broadcasting Inc.
June 16, 2003

While he has worked for three Republican presidents, Beers is a registered Democrat. He says he joined the Kerry campaign because he decided the Massachusetts senator offered the greatest expertise in foreign affairs and security issues of the presidential candidates.

He says he "never felt so strongly about something in my life" as he did that the Bush administration's policies need to be changed.

On other issues, Beers told the Post the U.S. had abandoned the war in Afghanistan without destroying al Qaeda, only dispersing terrorists around the country. "Terrorists move around the country with ease. We don't even know what's going on. Osama bin Laden could be almost anywhere in Afghanistan," he said.

On the domestic front, Beers charged homeland security was underfunded and suffering from "policy constipation. Nothing gets done," Beers said. He said the administration has taken little action to improve cybersecurity, port security or immigration management.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/16/politics/main558874.shtml

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/opinion/main215.shtml


Troubling Developments In Homeland Security
By Notra Trulock
July 22, 2003

The recent resignations of two top homeland security officials raise troubling questions about the nation’s preparedness to combat domestic terrorism. Both had long and distinguished careers inside the government’s intelligence bureaucracy and both had reputations for candidly "speaking truth to power."

In late March, Rand Beers, the administration’s senior director for combating terrorism, abruptly resigned his position. His job had been to coordinate the government’s counter-terrorism activities. Beers initially refused comment on his sudden resignation, other than to cite "personal reasons." But in mid-June he gave a long interview to the Washington Post and made an appearance on ABC’s Nightline.

Beers said that his departure was due partly to "burn out," but more to his frustration over the Bush administration’s handling of the war on terrorism. Beers alleged that "The administration wasn’t matching its deeds to its words" and is "making us less secure, not more secure." The proximate cause for leaving, he now admits, was the focus on Iraq, although he says that he didn’t oppose the war. But he thinks Iraq "robbed domestic security of manpower, brainpower, and money." He worries that we haven’t yet finished the job in Afghanistan, where he thinks we simply scattered al Qaeda terrorists. He also thinks we haven’t pushed the Saudis hard enough on dealing with their own terrorism problem.

He was particularly critical of the administration’s management of homeland security. "Nothing gets done," he told the Post, echoing the concerns of many in Washington about the slow pace of establishing the new Department of Homeland Security. He thinks the Department is underfunded and has yet to follow through on cyber-security, port security, infrastructure protection, and immigration management. Beers’ subsequent affiliation with Senator John Kerry, a Democratic Presidential hopeful, has permitted many to attribute his sudden departure and subsequent criticism to partisan politics.
http://www.aim.org/publications/media_monitor/2003/07/22.html

opinion: mailto:aimeditor@yahoo.com
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. All your cites are from June, 2003. Question is what is he doing NOW?
Yes, we know he quit Bush.

But we also know he was running a pretty sleazy shop.
I mean, even Paul O'Neill has better Bush-bashing
credentials than this guy; and there is no way I would
vote for some Dem with O'Neil on his team.

arendt
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. He's likely kicking back some brew and watching Jefferson-Jackson

Your Beers stuff is old news. Your argument is just that: An argument. Circulus in Probando
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. You sure you were responding to me? Your logic is backwards.
> Your Beers stuff is old news. Your argument is just that:
> An argument. Circulus in Probando

Fact 1: I did not post any Beers news.

Fact 2: *I* said the posted Beers news is old stuff.

Fact3: I have been asking others to provide ANY RECENT
Beers news. No one has any.

So, I think your post should be attached to the same one
I am criticizing; not to mine.

Please straighten this out, as you are confusing the thread.

arendt
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Hoppin_Mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. This Neocon's FARC claims were as egregious as ' Saddam caused 9/11 '
"Narco News Commentary: Under oath and "the penalties and pains of perjury" last November, Assistant Secretary of State Rand Beers made a blatantly false statement, toying with the emotions of American citizens after the aerial attacks of September 11th to try to justify, of all things, aerial herbicide attacks on Ecuadoran peasant farmers near the Colombia border.

Now he swears under oath that his outrageous and shocking statement was false.

Thus, a high official of the U.S. government had to admit in court that he had committed perjury; lied under oath to the same court.

http://www.narconews.com/beersperjury1.html

This man is a PLUS to the Kerry Campaign ?
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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
54. HE KNOWS WHERE THE BODIES ARE BURIED!!!!
Why can't you get that through your thick skull?

This campaign will be about TERROR FEAR.

BushCo could pull Osoma out of a hat in mid-October.

Kerry needs people like Beers on his side. This is about winning, and Beers will help.

End of story...
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
52. Oh yes
Counterpuch has had a number of articles about Dena, the best one was where Vermonters interviewed stated that you could expect Dean to break every canpaign promise he made, and that he is virtually responsible for none of the great things that happened in Vermont while he was governor, but in fact made a lot of effort to kill those programs and legislation.
So if you are going to accept Counterpunches accessment of Kerry, you must accept the accuracy of their accessment of Dean, whichwas overwhelmoingly scathing on all issues.
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TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. means no one cares what cp says.
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MAlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. Whatever
Edited on Sat Feb-07-04 03:37 PM by MAlibdem
My mistake
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Hoppin_Mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. LOL - It's alliteration - has nothing to do with 'Nazis'
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. Kerry IS a neoliberal imperalist
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. A story of this magnitude could have swayed Iowa caucus goers toward Dean.
Edited on Sat Feb-07-04 03:31 PM by oasis
Oh wait, midwesterners believe that the war on drugs is a good thing. Maybe that's why the story failed to meet an earlier deadline.
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Hoppin_Mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Diverting the thread to Dean won't work - Beers works for Kerry -nt-
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. I'm diverting the thread to reality. How many mainstream voters will care
about Beer's involvement in the war on drugs? Beer who?

It's a little late in the primary game to bring out anti-Kerry propaganda because his express train has already left the station.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. The issue isn't whether mainstream voters will care.
The issue is what Beers' presence in the Kerry camp signals. It worried me last summer, and it still does.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Beer's presence signals what? How will this hurt Kerry in the general?
Edited on Sat Feb-07-04 10:40 PM by oasis
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. It's not about hurting Kerry.
It's about what kind of national security agenda the world could expect from a Kerry administration. Would it be a continuation of the "war on terror," only "better"? That's what Beers' presence suggests to me.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. "continuation of the war on terror"? please be more specific.
Edited on Sun Feb-08-04 03:20 PM by oasis
Kerry is not likely to pull back on the actual safeguards of the nation. He also wont be a plyable and lazy administrator.

Bill Clinton had both good and bad advisors, he also possessed the analytical skills to make the right call.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. Since I consider the "war on terror" to be a hoax masking
resource plunder at the beginning of the end of the age of oil, I believe its continuation under a Democratic facade would be a hollow victory.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. Kerry people were touting this as a good thing a while ago
Apparently, Rand Beers has the goods on the BFEE and is going to help Kerry take them down.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
20.  Ruppert, Oct 03: "A key sign that Kerry might be the anointed one came...
From the Wilderness, Michael Ruppert, Oct 2003:

A key sign that Kerry might be the anointed one came for me when George W. Bush's chief counter-terrorism adviser Rand Beers resigned in a dramatic moment last June, in protest over Bush's handling of the war on terror and his headlong rush into Iraq. Beers immediately became Kerry's senior foreign policy advisor, as Kerry continued to state that he would improve on and expand the war on terror. Beers' protestations concealed what I considered to be a much more sinister objective, the placement of a key, hands-on operative to manage a smooth transition of power and a continuation of secret policy. Beers, who had served in national security roles for three Republican administrations, was the man who had replaced Lt. Col. Oliver North after North was fired in 1987 during the Iran-Contra scandal.

Although Beers is not listed as a CFR member he was a key contributor, and acknowledged in a 1996 CFR report "Making Intelligence Smarter" produced by a CFR panel headed by AIG Chairman Maurice "Hank" Greenberg. Narconews publisher Al Giordano refers to Beers as a "CFR type". One thing is certain, Rand Beers committed perjury right after 9/11 by testifying before Congress that Colombian and Ecuadorian rebels had links to Al Qaeda. He got caught and had to go back and amend his testimony and retract the statement. Sound familiar? Giordano caught that and actually published Beers' retraction under oath at http://www.narconews.com/beersperjury1.html.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/102003_beyond_bush_2.html

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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
56. This Ripe Effusion From Mr. Rense, Sir
Has already appeared frequently in the foolishness concerning "Skull and Bones". Two things are worth noting. The first is that your bolded segment is a mere asserion, offered without a shred of proof by this Mr. Rense, and in order to take it seriously, a person must share both that wretch's core assumptions, namely that there is some grave conspiracy by our Hidden Masters afoot, and that he holds the keys to their dark designs. There is no reason whatever to sign on to either of these mental constructs, particularly the last one: if Mr. Rense were right, he would surely be dead, and if the Hidden Masters were so careless as to leave their plots laying about in reach of any buffoon with access to a key-board, they would not be hidden, and would long ago have come a cropper in their conspiratorial efforts. The second is that, for a person who's trade is national security, there is no real employment available outside the nation's government, and therefore a person seeking to rise in that trade must work for whatever administration exists to employ him, or seek another field of endeavor.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
21. A Neocon imperialist behind an establishment Skull & Boneser?
Do you mean Bush or Kerry again?
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-04 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Both
Six of One, Half Dozen of the other.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. my sig is becoming more relevant than ever
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
37. He discredits himself by his second sentence
"Would likely serve as Kerry's National Security Advisor"


I love the way Counterpunch takes one fact and then extrapolates an entire story out of it.
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. You're right, but
the fact remains that the Kerry campaign seems to have embraced this person.

I know how to ignore the hyperbole of counterpunch. All "crystal ball" predictions about cabinet appointments are silly at this point.

I'm more concerned with getting an explanation of why the Kerry campaign thinks associating themselves with a man of this dubious nature is a positive thing.

Please don't tell me he's going to help us get rid of Bush. We can do that without any right-wing help.
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Hoppin_Mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. No scruples "the enemy (neocon perjuror) of my enemy (bush) is my friend"
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Could also be...
We've got this mutual friend who used to be your BEST friend and now he's MY best friend.

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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #40
55. IT'S CALLED REALITY!!!
Politics isn't therapy...
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. If I had the opportunity to have someone who was INSIDE
when all this info was being vetted in my campaign, I would USE them for their very unique position of knowledge myself.
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. okay, maybe.
But what do they want in return?

You wouldn't be suspicious that they might feed you misinformation?
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Kerry served on the Senate Intelligence Committee for years
I think he has a handle on who is credible and who isn't...and for the record, I am a lawyer and while it isn't preferable to have anyone alter their testimony in any matter, deference is paid to those that modify testimony after consulting their records or clarify matters based on all available info and admit it is wrong when it is.

I don't know what Beers wants in return other than a paycheck for being on Kerry's campaign staff.

I think Kerry has had many many years to weigh the credibility of agents based on their prior testimony before him.
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tameszu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #38
48. Sigh, why do we keep sicing this Counterpunch garbage on one another?
Look, I am very skeptical about Kerry, but I'm also very happy to have Rand Beers on our side, calling out Bush for his disgraceful promotion of the Iraq war. The CIA is by no means pristine, but it is getting better, and there are definitely people who want to make it worse, or who are conflicted with it who are much worse (i.e. neocons).
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. Indeed, Sir
Edited on Sun Feb-08-04 05:25 PM by The Magistrate
"Counter-Punch" is a ludicrous journal, without reason or integrity; a mere crew of wreckers who lie as naturally as they breathe, and who seem constitutionally incapable of presenting a real fact unadorned, just as some people cannot tolerate high places, and so remain on ground floors and in basements. They are the lowest form of propagandist, being not even particularly good at it, apparently having mistaking a common tool of the trade, the impudent distortion, for the trade's purpose, but that of course is not the case. The purpose of propaganda is not to see who can broadcast the most and the most impudent falsehoods, but to move people to feel that they think just like you do, and that you think just like them, and to do this in ever-widening circles. "Counter-Punch" fails abysmally at this; it cannot even reach all members of the choir....
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mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
50. Rand Beers is now anti-Bush
He appeared in the Moveon.org-sponsored film, "Uncovered -- the truth behind the Iraq War." Along with the other Intelligence folks in the film, he pretty much eviscerated the Bush reasons for the war.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Rand Beers
Decided he didnt like what was going on inside of the Bush WHite House and jumped ship to the one cnadidate he knew could use what he knew to make an effective case against Bush come the General election.
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