Why gay and lesbian voters prefer Clark...

[Mobius]

http://washingtonblade.com/2004/2-6/news/national/clark.cfm

The lawyer in Seifert likes Clark’s straightforward delivery style. Seifert describes Clark as willing to give an answer instead of “canned jargon.” The Southerner in Seifert appreciates the “down-home goodness” of the decorated Army commander and his ability to “make you feel as if you are the only person who matters in the room.”
SNIP
He began doing volunteer work with the Democratic Party, gathering his own intelligence about the various candidates for president. Then Clark emerged on the radar screen, and for Seifert, as the candidate of choice. He moved to Clark’s D.C. headquarters.

[Bertha Venation]

1. The title of your thread is grossly misleading.

Why did you title it "Why gay and lesbian voters prefer Clark"?

It would be more honestly titled, "Why one DC lobbyist, who happens to be gay, prefers Clark."

I'm backing Dean until the end (meaning, until he gets the nod or until he bows out), and after that -- I haven't made up my mind. But I won't be campaigning for Gen'l Clark unless he gets the nomination.

[arwalden]

3. I'm Gay. I Admire Clark. I Admire Dean. But I'm Voting For Kerry.

I'm guessing that many people think that Queer Americans are a monolith. It's an understandible mistake though. Perhaps that's true on specific issues and in our overall resolve... but this early in the game there are many different viewpoints.

I don't always agree with everything I read in the Washington Blade or the Advocate, or the Human Rights Campaign. They serve as a good barometer, but they don't necessarily speak for everyone.

-- Allen

P.S. I do *love* the HRC "cheat sheets" that show how our representatives voted on issues that were important to Queer Americans. Very revealing and very helpful.

[Jerseycoa]

6. HRC "cheat sheets"?

Is this what you mean or is there something else?

http://www.glbtforclark.org/files/HRCQ_Questionnaire_Final.doc


I agree the title is inaccurate and should be edited if there is still time.

[arwalden]

14. That URL Is *NOT* A Web Page. It's A PASSWORD PROTECTED Word Document...

and it crashed my browser.

Anyway I don't know what it actually contained, but I can elaborate on what the Human Rights Campaign mails out to its members before an election. It's a "scorecard" showing how our reps voted on issues that were important to the GLBT community and how those votes compared with HRC's position.

The following link is a PDF file:

http://www.hrc.org/Template.cfm?Section=Congress_and_Scorecard&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=11387

Below is a link to the page that contains MORE links to all the previous scorecards.

http://www.hrc.org/Content/NavigationMenu/HRC/Get_Informed/Congress_and_Scorecard/Index.htm

I hope this helps. -- Allen

[dsc]

15. It crashed your browser too?

I thought it was my lack of memory when it crashed mine last night.

[Jerseycoa]

23. I'm so sorry.

It contained Clark's HRC Questionnaire (it does say .doc). It just opened for me in Word with no problem or password, but I apologize for posting it since it caused others trouble.

Thanks for the new links.

[Bertha Venation]

9. "many people think that Queer Americans are a monolith"

Undoubtedly, Allen, and thanks for pointing this out. It irks me to no end. We are not.

Two partners at the law firm where I work know Gen'l Clark very well. These partners happen to be married; the husband is a former undersecretary of something at DOD. K. (the wife) has been lobbying me like mad to get involved with them in Clark's campaign.

Why? Because I am gay. She knows I'm a Dean supporter and that I'm gay (hell, the whole firm knows both things). But I am evidently the only openly gay person in the firm that K. knows of. So she emails me or comes by my desk frequently, to talk about Clark, to try to get me to change my primary vote, to go to events, to volunteer, etc. Can't blame her for lobbying me, but I can, a little, for saying in effect "Hey, you're gay! Wes loves people like you!" But I don't blame her much. It's benign ignorance, IMO.

She got me invited to a Clark fund raiser at Seifert & Dygert's home in December. It was too expensive (min. $1,000 donation -- I have no quarrel with this; it's how it's done), so she called them and they said they'd still like me to come and would reduce my donation requirement to $250. I thought that was nice but it was still too expensive and I couldn't go. I would've liked to, because it would've been a chance to ask the gen'l about two other things that are as important to me as GLBT issues (his view of the American homeless and of Americans living in abject poverty).

I don't think Gen'l Clark would be a bad president; in fact, I'm sure he'd be a good one. I just think Dean would be better, not just for us gay folk but for all of us.

But as I said before, if he's the nominee I'll campaign for him -- just as I will for Dean, or Kerry, or Edwards, or anyone else who can pull it out. Because frankly, ABB -- and ANY of them can and will beat him.

[roughsatori]

5. The title violates rule number 2

2. The subject line of a discussion thread must accurately reflect the actual content of the message.

[Mobius]

17. The time limit for editing has expired:

This is rule #2 for this forum:
"2. Criticism of Democratic primary candidates, their policy positions, and their campaigns is permitted. However, extreme and inflammatory attacks against Democratic primary candidates are not permitted. The moderators have the sole authority to decide whether an attack is extreme and inflammatory. Inappropriate attacks include, but are not limited to, the following: Attacks involving swear words, long strings of negative words, comparisons to Hitler or Bush, unflattering graphics, etc."
If a moderator wishes to change the title, Please do so, if you feel that my topic line does not accuratly refelect the image, if in fact, that is a rule violation. I do not want to break ant posting/DU forum rules.
Thank you

*edited to change "image" to "message". Spellcheck didn't catch it, sorry:) *

[TrueBlueDem]

2. Gay Leader Elizabeth Birch Endorses Dean

http://www.deanforamerica.com/press/lgbt/2004/01/14/birch/

BURLINGTON--Dean for America today announced that Elizabeth Birch, a
national civil rights leader, former Silicon Valley executive and
noted lawyer, has joined the campaign as a senior advisor beginning
today. Until recently Birch led the Human Rights Campaign (HRC) and
HRC Foundation, the nation's largest GLBT advocacy organization.

"Governor Dean has lived his principles of inclusion by treating the
gay community of America with respect and fairness. But just as
important, I am also confident that on a broad range of policy issues
and approaches from the economy to health care and the management of
our international relations, he has the best long-term prescription
for a healthy America, domestically and abroad," Birch said.

"Elizabeth has been a long-time friend and a great leader in our
nation, and I am extremely pleased to have her aboard," Governor Dean
said. "Elizabeth will be a valuable advisor on many policy issues and
a key strategist on multiple fronts for the campaign."

MORE...

[roughsatori]

4. You thread title is deceptive and I thought against the rules

I am gay and will not vote for Clark.

[MarkTwain]

7. Thanks ! Mobius....

... for a great article and a fine thread.

Regrets that you have to be subjected to those so myopic in their partisanship that they fail to - or just psychologically cannot - recognize either the clearly superior candidate for the GLBT community - or even, for that matter, a good piece of journalism.

Instead, they rush to playing Board Nanny and screaming Violation of Rule This and Rule That to protect a candidacy that has abjectly and misreably failed. One that deserved to fail from the beginning since had it prevailed, it would have eclipsed any politically mature and reasonable hope of taking back the White House from the Squatter.

[Bertha Venation]

8. This is flame bait.

Sniffs of sock puppetry, too, IMO.

J/C, MarkTwain, not that it's relevant: are you gay?

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bertha Venation]

11. On the contrary.

I don't want to see this thread shut down. One reason is as I posted in reply to Allen: it's a good opportunity to show that GLBT Americans aren't one-issue voters.

[Jerseycoa]

12. Wow!

Not to trivialize the topic, but that is one GREAT handle: Bertha Venation.

[Bertha Venation]

16. thanks -- I love it but can't take credit

Borrowed from Harvey Fierstien's "Torch Song Trilogy."

[Jerseycoa]

22. Yeah, but

You thought of using it -- very clever of you. :)

[dsc]

13. actually had the people involved wanted the thread shut down

they would have alerted without saying a word. Instead they are giving the person a chance to edit. That seems a fair thing to do. Threads which are as violative of clearly stated rules as this one is often do get removed. They appear to be trying to avoid that fate.

[arwalden]

18. I Think The Original Thread Title Was Not Intentional "Flame Bait"

or intentionally misleading. Your take on the original message and the direction this thread is taking is right on target, DSC.

It's clear to me that it was simply a title that demonstrated a commonly held mis-perception about Queer voters. Although it was an incorrect perception I didn't find it offensive and inflammatory.

I was pleased to have the article brought to my attention. I value the opinions of gay writers, gay politicians, gay lobbyists, gay celebs, and gay media. It helps me to see all sides and to help me formulate MY OWN opinions.

-- Allen

[Bertha Venation]

19. You formulate your own opinions?!

I'm notifying HHQ immediately. Prepare to have your Stereotypical Privileges revoked! ;)

[arwalden]

21. I Know... It's Shocking, Isn't It?

The head drag queen of all things political (the one who tells us ALL how to vote... not the one who tells us how to dress) will soon be sending me to the dungeon.

And no... it's not the "whips-n-chains" dungeon with hunky guys either... so stop saying that.

-- Allen

[Hell Hath No Fury]

20. Hmmm, that's funny...

I am the token straight gal in my large circle of gay and lesbian friends here in SF, and I gotta tell you, not one of them is voting for Clark -- in fact, he's not even on their radar.

They're all voting Kucinich or Dean.

[QC]

24. America is not San Francisco writ large,

Though that's not an unappealing notion, believe me.

I think it's probably true that Dean has the most gay support, but some of us do favor other candidates.

[Moderator]

25. Locking......

2. The subject line of a discussion thread must accurately reflect the actual content of the message.


Please use the actual headline. What you posted is misleading.


DU Moderator