Chomsky Doubts Dems Under Kerry Can Survive RW Propaganda Onslaught

[Raya]

Noam Chomsky today commented that he hopes Democrats under Kerry can survive massive right-wing propaganda onslaught that anyone could predict.

But, he doubts it. Says Republican media machine will be painting Kerry as opportunistic by linking him to the anti-Vietnam war celebrities like Jane Fonda, and as treasonous by suggesting he betrayed fellow soldiers still in combat.

Bush, on the other hand, he speculates, will be portrayed as the victorious Commander-In-Chief as they “capture” or kill Osama Bin Laden just before the Democratic Convention, overshadowing the coverage.

Chomsky was on C-Span at the UN receiving Medal from International Writers Society.

[bhunt70]

1. He's probably right about what will happen but...

I think he may underestimate the division between those who like bush and those who don't.

[lastknowngood]

2. A clear mind and shrewd analysis

n/t

[Dogmudgeon]

6. A No-Brainer

And I'm not saying this to knock Chomsky.

It's going to happen, whoever gets the nomination. It will be the filthiest, most corrupt campaign in history.

Jesus Christ Himself would be unable to prevail against the Karl Rove / Team Bush Love Machine.

It's like the second Star Wars movie: The Empire Strikes Back only the Empire won in the first movie, too.

Our hope?

Impeachment. Conviction. Incarceration.

--bkl

[pocoloco]

15. If Impeachment. Conviction. Incarceration

is our only hope, we are shit out of luck!

[eaprez]

3. RW Propaganda Onslaught.

Get your rain gear ready because there is going to be a RW Propaganda Smear campaign NO MATTER WHO the nominee is. They haven't even started spending their money yet. Those on the other side have to be prepared to fight back and support the nominee of the party with their MONEY and their time.

[kalian]

4. I think he's dead on....

and what's more, the economy is being held up with toothpicks...and
as soon as a dem is in place, the entire deck of cards will come
down in one fell swoop.
Then the reich-wingers will kick in stating that the dems "ruined"
the economic recovery and that they could have made it last...

Let's also not forget that another staged event might happen after
the dems take control...and then the repukes can blame the dems for
"failing" America's security...that they are "traitors"....

Just leave it to their imagination...

[yellowcanine]

5. I think the pubs will steer clear of Vietnam Era

Because it exposes the Shrub's AWOL flank. He has way more to lose if a pissing contest starts comparing Kerry's Vietnam record to his.

[Raya]

9. May get a hint Sunday. Bush may come out swinging re his patriotism

in going into National Guard and being prepared to go to Nam if
called.

[incapsulated]

17. They, and Rove, don't need a direct attack

To be effective. Just ask John McCain. They had a smear campaign going on under the radar on him all over SC, actually going at him for being some sort of communist mole for Viet Nam! And shit about his wife too. The scary thing is, it was effective, Bush and the rethugs never had to open their mouths about it publicly.

[wyldwolf]

7. Could you imagine the RW Propaganda Onslaught on Kucinich?

Dean?

[Mairead]

18. On Kucinich? No, actually I can't

because there's nothing there. He had an awful time as mayor? He was saving Muny Light while Bush was dodging his flight physical, an AWOL drunk unable even to complete his safe Guard service. He was out of politics for years? That's the price someone pays for political courage. He's against the war? Yes, it was a lie and a setup from the beginning and here's the evidence.

What could they get him on?

[Iverson]

19. uhhhhh ... he a librul!

Our friends just call him "unelectable" and lapse into a strange silence when the New York Times decides that he doesn't deserve a place in the Democratic debates.

edited for verb tense agreement

[Norquist Nemesis]

36. The spin would be he bankrupted Cleveland

Never mind that he did the right thing and was proven to do so. That part of the story won't get the equal attention. Considering the economy and growing deficit are #1 according to the polls, that makes him the easiest to slam dunk.

He's right about alot of things he's campaigning on and the man has balls of steel standing for what he believes and keeping his promises. Unfortunately, he's already been painted as the liberal extremist of the bunch...you know, that dirty word "LIBERAL"?

[kiahzero]

52. I'm hesitant to give examples

I don't want to break the forum rules, and I think Kucinich is a decent guy, but to assume that he's unattackable is laughable.

I could PM some to you?

[corporatewhore]

23. actually old school conservatives like kucinich becausehes anti patriotact

and anti freetrade

[WiseMen]

51. I don't think we would have had any chance. Only Kerry or Clark credible

[bigtree]

8. Sad that Chomsky, a peace advocate, can't envision defending Kerry

for his reasoned protests against that unjust war against two candidates, Bush and Cheney, who supported the Vietnam war yet refused to serve.


One, two, three, four,
We don't want your fuckin' war,
A, B, C, D,
Get someone else, hey don't get me,
Left, right, left, right,
You know the whole damn thing puts me uptight.

I done my duty and I fought my fight
And I thought I knew I was doing right,
But that's all over, I'm free at last,
An' if they want any more, they can kiss my ass.

'Cause I've been up and down and around
This country more than a couple of times,
But I never knew until I got into the Army
That thinking for yourself was a crime.

Get over here, stand over there,
Let's see your identification.
Shut your mouth, son, get back in line,
We're sending you to South East Asia — like hell.

-Excerpts from 'Kiss My Ass' by, Country Joe McDonald

[Iverson]

13. sorry the predictions didn't go your way

As long as we can discern what's reasoned from what is not, pause and remember that a prediction is not the same thing as a refusal to defend.

[bigtree]

16. successfully 'defending'

I can envision sucessfully defending John Kerry on these.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

14. Chomsky knows the crimes power will commit to hang on. Sad but true. n/t

[Terwilliger]

20. I guess you didn't read the original post

I don't think Chomsky is into sitting around singing kumbaya while watching the Pukes run right over everybody, as some Dems seem willing to do.

[bigtree]

43. But tell me, was Chomsky really hand wringing like the post implied?

I'd like to hear the whole statement and the context as he expressed it.

But I would ask, why do some go on endlessly about what the republicans will do to John Kerry without expressing confidence that we can successfully defend him against Bush, at least on issues that Democrats agree with Sen. Kerry on?

I think it would be more empowering to just say that Bush will attempt to obfuscate and distract and we won't let him, under any circumstances.

[Terwilliger]

48. I think people are already a little too comfortable

Kerry has a long road to hoe...given the probabilities of November, 2004, what should we really want to challenge George Bush?

Maybe it is Kerry. Maybe not.

[patricia92243]

10. Surprise, surprise - and people like me will have to suffer because Kerry

is sure to lose. He should never, ever be picked in the first place - the establishment wanting him so much should be reason enough for average people to not want him

[wyldwolf]

12. patricia92243, you made the comment twice today...

..that Kerry is sure to lose.

So tell us, who would surely win?

[frustrated_lefty]

11. What can I say? Kerry

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[sandnsea]

21. Noam Chomsky is so influential

Not. It is time the people who served got more respect than the people who deferred or weasled out. The WWII generation isn't judging Vietnam anymore, boomers are. We know better and this is the lamest excuse for left wingers to berate Kerry that's out there. He was an anti-war protestor and now anti-war protestors are going to shit on him because he was an anti-war protestor. Fuck all y'all. I'm sick of it.

[Iverson]

22. Thanks for clearing that up.

"Not."

[Forkboy]

24. "Fuck all y'all"?

That's not very nice.

[sandnsea]

40. I apologize

I tried to take it out. It was a generic "fuck all y'all", directed at Democrats in general, all those who are too weak-kneed to stand up to this Vietnam smearing once and for all.

[Terwilliger]

25. Damn, you're tripping this much and we haven't even heard from the Pukes

you should relax

[sandnsea]

39. I expect it from them

I don't expect my own Dems to stoop to this level of smearing anybody for protesting Vietnam. It's just low. And if we don't have the courage to stand up for one of our own over Vietnam, then we don't have any courage at all.

[Terwilliger]

45. Well, I'll not be one criticizing anybody for protesting a war

My biggest problem with Kerry so far has been his inability to get people behind him. Now circumstances are forcing this situation where he's on this bounce, but it's early, and the fun comes later. If Kucinich is not viable, then I'm going to ask what makes Kerry so special. It's not just about intelligence...it's about leadership.

[sandnsea]

47. This post does

I've never started threads about Crazy Clark starting WWIII or Edwards being a slimy trial lawyer. There are just some things I would think Democrats would be above. But no.

People are behind Kerry. It's just that they might not be the people in your circle. There's lots of Democrats out here from all walks of life. I just got off the phone with one lady from Tennessee and she said everybody in her area is for Kerry. Oh yes, she always votes.

And alot of us are waiting for some of the candidate loyalty to wear off before we start reminding people why they might ought to have been Kerry supporters all along. At least I am. It's just an emotional mudslinging contest right now.

[LoZoccolo]

28. Hey there!

:hi:

[mikehiggins]

31. Sandy, nobody is berating Kerry for what he did in working with

Fonda and the VVAW to end the war. What we are trying to point out is that in the real world, where the real people live, the things Kerry did can be used against him to paint him in a bad light, perhaps bad enough to cost him (and us) the election.

Kerry is a WEAK candidate in the general election, despite what the polls say, because nobody has actually mounted a campaign against him as yet on the level the GOP did against McCain. There are any number of ways BushCo could attack Kerry on this one issue alone, so many that it would be pointless to try and list them all.

Clark or Edwards or Dean would be better in an actual election against Bush in the real world because they are outsiders (even Edwards is an outsider in an administration that rightly considers lawyers among their worst enemies) and do not have the kind of history that Kerry brings with him to the campaign.

Do not shoot the messenger, Sandy. We didn't create this situation, we are only pointing it out. The real question is why so many people seem unwilling or unable to look at it honestly.

[sandnsea]

37. No

This is bullshit that we are such a bunch of weak dicks that we will never stand up to those bastards. One minute everybody is bitching that Kerry is the "safe, electable" candidate and that's why everybody is voting for him. The next they're shaking in their boots because he stood up for what he believed and protested the Vietnam war. I can take alot of things, but smearing anybody over protesting Vietnam just gets on my last nerve. None of these other candidates have a prayer against Bush, they just don't have the knowledge and experience to convince people they can do the job. And please don't forget all the nasty things that have been said about Clark. Or that Edwards is a slick thieving trial lawyer. And Dean is a plain old lunatic. There's going to be stuff thrown at every one of them. Some of it I don't mind, but Hanoi Jane is too much for Democrats to be posting against their own.

[The Sausage of Death]

62. We need Noam Chomsky to introduce Kerry at a fund raising event.

We saw what Michael More did for Clarke and what Gore did for Dean so we don't need the Republicans to help us improve Kerry's profile. Jane Fonda and Noam will do just fine.

[capriccio]

26. Half right

Noam's analysis leaves out the other serious theat to unseating Bush: the Righteous Left, where paranoia, immaturity, narcissism, and just plain ignorance comingle to convince an entire group of otherwise wonderful people to put their precious moral vanity above the good of their country.

[Iverson]

27. Didn't that tripe go out with McCarthy and the HUAC?

Oh well!

[Terwilliger]

34. HEY!

Have you recited your Democrat loyalty oath today, huh?

[Iverson]

35. no, but ...

I've been advised that folks like me who don't write a blank check to the Democratic nominee are Eric Cartman from South Park.

I guess puerile insults are supposed to be persuasive these days.

[Terwilliger]

33. oh for crying out loud

You know, you can try to group the legions of the left that DONT vote for the Dem candidate into some kind of comfortable, broad-brush group...When ya lose, I'll be laughin' my ass off!

[mikehiggins]

29. Wow! Chomsky better watch out if he keeps talking about Kerry

and Jane Fonda. That can get you in a lot of trouble here on DU.

Maybe now more people will take that threat seriously since its not just an overweight retired construction worker pointing it out but one of the heavyweight (not overweight) progressive spokespeople in the field.

This whole Kerry/Fonda thing is a big a landmine as gay marriage and all the kids just keep skipping across the field, never thinking they can get their legs blown right out from under them.

[tigereye]

30. Jane Fonda, ,how tired is that?

Kerry was a "real" vet ( as opposed to *), he seems to have a lot of Vet support. Hard to believe that most of those folks would align his views with that old thinking. If the Reps can't come up with anything better than that...

Ironically McCain was making the rounds yesterday defending *'s service.

[sandnsea]

41. Our vets aren't cowards

They're ready for this fight, it's been burning in them for 30 years. I'm ashamed that so many who were standing right there protesting don't have the courage to stand with them now and end this commie pinko bullshit once and for all.

[Mairead]

46. McCain was defending Smirk's military record??

Jeez, does that leave ANYone in ANY doubt about McC's essential right-winginess or ethical bankruptcy?

[saoirse]

57. What a lick-arse

I used to respect the man, but he's finally shown his true colors. But then, what do you expect from a guy who couldn't even beat Dubya for the GOP nomination?

[The Sausage of Death]

64. For McCain, the Country comes before the Party...

...and you are the first I've heard questioning his integrity. We should be a little more careful. A Kerry/McCain ticket could beat George Bush.

[WiseMen]

32. Progressives have to Get Damn Serious About What's At Stake For RW Estab

Chomsky is being consistent in saying that Dems are likely to continue like fools to ignore the HUGE STAKES for the RW global tyranies in the Bush regime.

Unless we take things seriously and organize to recreated a democratic culture and movement there is not much chance against the POWERS THAT BE.

[Norquist Nemesis]

38. I completely agree...we're looking at the trees

and not the forest here. So far, we're all excited about how strong we are and how great it is. But the campaign truly hasn't begun and the only contest we have with Bush is the GE, not the primaries.

Republicans who are anti-Bush are hoping and praying and wishing for just one thing, one tiny morsel to give them back hope and stick with Bush. They really and truly WANT TO BELIEVE, so the RW will give them something while attacking the Dem nominee and voila! They'll be convinced old Georgie has things right back on track.

It's a very precarious position we're facing and we ain't seen nothin' yet!

[Logansquare]

42. I saw one of the supermarket tabloids had a story on Kerry

and his "flings." I suppose the sex angle is the most obvious for the Republicans, since its something less informed voters can latch on to. It's going to get nasty, but we knew that.

[Raya]

44. Chomsky thought Dems were HOPELESS before Kerry Emerged

as the front runner.

I think his point had to do with powerfull media, financial and
industrial interests behind Bush at this time.

[Pepperbelly]

49. I really no longer care what Chomsky thinks...

His precience underwhelms me as does his condemnations of corporate America. Hells, bells, the sky is blue, rocks are hard and water is wet.

As Wigel on Reno 9-11 said, "Why don't I just go jump in the f*cking ocean?"

:eyes:

[NNN0LHI]

50. Guess we should have nominated Lieberman while we had the chance then?

He should have been able to deflect all this stuff that Chomsky is concerned about by doing that. :crazy:

Don

[Nashyra]

54. The line about the capture of bin laden

during the convention sounds plausible. It will be harder for the smear campaign because there is too much to smear * with. Clark would be the better nominee.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

55. but we'll have Evan Bayh as Kerry's VP!

Bayh, the chairman of the DLC. No one will be able to tag us with the "liberal" label again!

[NNN0LHI]

60. Oh. Is that confirmed? Or is that just rumor? Or do you even know? n/t

[eileen_d]

53. I can't believe this.

Chomsky's outlook on U.S. affairs is usually so positive!

[bain_sidhe]

58. "Chomsky's outlook on U.S. affairs is usually so positive!" SNORT, giggle

Good one. I'm not a Kerry fan, but Chomsky is almost as anti-Dem and anti-US as he is anti-Repuke.

He does have one point: The right-wingers will throw everything but the kitchen sink - and hell, they'll throw that too, if they think it might do some damage. But, come on... this is news? Like we didn't think they would ever be so uncouth as to bring up things that might serve as a "wedge" to pry off some segment of ANY Dem's support.

Yeah, if it's Kerry, you can bet they'll use Hanoi Jane!! - that'll pry off a few vets - a lot of them STILL get apoplectic talking about her. They'll use oh horrors Kerry dated pretty women when he was single!! (Although, I admit, I'm not sure who this is going to pry off... gays?) I suppose if they can make it seem sleazy enough, it MIGHT pull a couple of "family values" types off - but I suspect the ones that could be pulled off for something like that aren't the ones that would have been considering Kerry anyway.

Bottom line, yeah, if you can think of a sleazy line of attack, they've not only already thought of it, they probably already have commercials in the can to exploit it. The key is to figure out which ones might actually do some damage and address those with "overwhelming force" (as my guy might say). Hanoi Jane has the potential to peal off some vets, no question. The question is wheher those vets might provide the margin of victory in any given state. I don't know that. I suspect Kerry does, and if so, has already made plans about how to counter it.

[saoirse]

56. It'll backfire on them if they try this

I almost think Chomsky was trying to set Karl Rove up!

If the GOP tries to portray Kerry as a radical type, all he has to do is counter with his pictures and stories from Vietnam. People will compare what Kerry did to what Dubya didn't do, and it'll make the Repubs look really bad. They are so full of hate they'll end up going too far, just like they did over Whitewater and Monica.

I'm not scared of their dirty tricks - they will only speed their inevitable demise.

[quaker bill]

59. He is correct of course.

I would love it to turn out another way. But it will not.

[DrFunkenstein]

61. Didn't Forrest Gump Speak At The Rally, Too?

I think movies have taught us three things:

1) Some f'ed up sh*t happened in Vietnam.

2) Our returning veterans were given a raw deal over it.

3) They had every right to say enough is enough.

[Darranar]

63. That's not what I heard...

Admittedly, I wasn't paying much attention at the time.

Anyone have a transcript?

[Monte Carlo]

65. Then let us hope that Chomsky is wrong.

I have a different opinion. I'm no linguistics professor, but I have my reasons.