Questions about Dean

[webkev]

these are genuine questions I have about Dean - they might be used against Dean if he ever got the nomination





how come Clark wishes to cut the pentagon budget and dean has no intention of doing this?

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what is dean hiding in his sealed records that he doesn't want the dems to find out about until January?

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apart from leaving one million acres of vermont land conserved..Dean has opened up most of Vermont to over development - so why would you say dean is pro environment?

Why did IBM, the leading polluter in Vermont, receive his Environmental Achievement Award nine times?

Quote:
"Dean's attempts to run for president as an environmentalist is nothing but a fraud," Annette Smith, the director of Vermonters for a Clean Environment, told Wild Matters. "He's destroyed the Agency of Natural Resources, he's refused to meet with environmentalists while constantly meeting with the development community, and he's made the permitting process one, big dysfunctional joke."

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how can you call Dean anti war? just because he didn't have to vote on a particular resolution?

Quote:
"If the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice."
(Feb. 2003)

- Howard Dean

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Why did the Dean administration increase funding for Vermont's state colleges by only 7% while he increased funding for prisons by 150%?


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Why did he wait for the courts and legislature to bring about the civil union bill before he supported it? Why did he sign the bill in private when he finally did sign it?


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and finally? when he has limited appeal to American Voters- what could his stragegy be to win a majority of the population's vote?


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[Padraig18]

1. Try reading the archives, some time.

These questions have all been asked and answered aboput 10K times. :eyes:

[bearfartinthewoods]

49. i totally missed any story about him and the environment

besides...if you aren't up to answering, no one will force you to.

[mmonk]

2. your large print in certain areas

may doom your thread to lockdom.

[webkev]

4. whoops

taught that was the smallest

[maddezmom]

3. more flamebait? I guess all sides are hitting it today

:(

[webkev]

5. these are questions (nt)

[Padraig18]

8. "these are questions..."

To which the answers have been posted multiple times; try the archives. :shrug:

[webkev]

9. ive searched the net and I cant find these

just one sentence answers would do..
it isnt flamebait but genuine concern

[Padraig18]

11. Try the archives here at DU.

Plenty of 'answres' there, if it's answers you want. :shrug:

[Padraig18]

12. a-r-c-h-i-v-e-s!

DU archives, NOT usenet.

[webkev]

14. just tell me

I dont have a search feature
and others may be interested dude

[Padraig18]

17. you don't have a blue link that says 'archives'...

... at the top, right-hand part of this forum's page? Do your own research on such common questions, why don't you? http://www.deanforamerica.com

[auntpattywatty]

6. There will be questions about any nominee, so what's the big deal??

[Rose Siding]

7. You're breaking Annette Smith's heart!

snip>
Activists who once clashed with Dean over his agenda find themselves in a difficult position. Annette Smith, head of Vermonters for a Clean Environment, battled Dean over a gas-pipeline project in Rutland, a prospective mine in Danby Four Corners and a factory farm in Highgate. Under Dean, she once said, "EP meant expedite permits," instead of environmental protection.

But even she is singing a slightly different tune lately. "Look, it's no secret I don't think highly of many things he's done. He has plenty of explaining to do," said Smith, who has not endorsed a candidate despite what she said were repeated overtures from the Dean campaign. "But I also don't want to help Bush to be reelected. I have already seen quotes of mine used by conservatives on Web sites, and that is even worse."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A17514-2003Nov27¬Found=true

It looks like she came early to the GOP's conclusion about what helps Bush.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[webkev]

13. hey..

if you cant defend yourself against other dems..
what chance have you against the Republicans?

[edzontar]

15. Flame bait and poopy at that...

nt

[dsc]

16. To take two

Why did the Dean administration increase funding for Vermont's state colleges by only 7% while he increased funding for prisons by 150%?


This is a flat out lie told by his oppoent and amplified by the ISR. Here is my latest time debunking it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=27556&mesg_id=27797&page=

Post 9 if only the thread comes up.

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Why did he wait for the courts and legislature to bring about the civil union bill before he supported it? Why did he sign the bill in private when he finally did sign it?

Two things here. One gay activists who actually work on this issue have repeatedly begged public officials not to discuss this while the issue was in the courts. They feared a back lash would rise up before the deal was done. It happened in both Alaska and Hawaii. Dean also supported civil unions one hour after the decision was handed down and the bill was passed four months later. Both matters of public record and you can find them at Out in the Mountains among other places. That makes the first question innaccurate and I will conceed the second. The reason he gave was that he believed a public signing would be divisive. He should have done one anyway.

[webkev]

19. thanks for you're response

I'll need this to defend Dean

[Spirochete]

43. To defend Dean?

Now, why do I doubt that defending Dean is really on your agenda, I wonder?

[beyurslf]

18. Those may be valid questions for Democrats

to ask in the primaries, but I don't see any of that being used by *ush against Dean.
Civil Unions? If they use it, they will blast him for signing it at all. They will not blast him because he did it quietly.
Decreasing the pentagon budget? I think Clark will have a tough time with that in the general.
Environment? I don't think Bush would dare take on someone's environmental record.
Anti war? Um, Bush? Need I say more?
His "limited appeal" is greater than that of any other Dem candidate so far in polls so I fail to see the problem.

The only even remotely credible thing in this is the archives in Vermont, which the Vermont Courts are addressing. It is beyond Dean's hands now.

[HFishbine]

20. Unsubstantiated opinon asserted as emprical truth

Dean has "limited" appeal to American voters? This is based on what? Since there haven't been any votes cast yet, we can only draw conclusions. Some seem to think that stubborn assertion is a substitute for emprical evidence. Others may choose to look at:

- Number of campaign contributors
- Number of grassroots volunteers
- Poll numbers

[webkev]

21. polls

hes polling among the lowest
Clark beat the pResident in a blind bio poll

[HFishbine]

22. Ahh, the ol' blind bio poll

from six months ago. Name any of the dem candidates and they all "lose" to Bush.

[webkev]

23. that is not in the poll i'm referring too

The poll I'm talking about was not 6 months ago
I would say it would be significantly higher today




and while they all lose in other polls
Clark is still the highest despite his late entry

[HFishbine]

24. Ah, then you have a source

Since you are certain that you are not referring to the poll six months ago, you must have a source you can cite for the "newer" poll. Care to give us a clue, or is this a super secret poll?

[webkev]

25. here ya go

http://www.draftwesleyclark.com/press_release_082603.htm

poll was conducted late august

[HFishbine]

26. I stand corrected

That is the poll I was thinking of too -- 4 1/2 months ago. I stand corrected.

[webkev]

29. thats ok

we all make mistakes..
you must admit that it is a good thing that he best the pResident!

[HFishbine]

32. Don't get carried away

I thought the irony would get through. A poll 4 1/2 months old might as well be 6 months old. We also haven't discussed the flaws inherent in a blind bio poll. None the less, this discussion started with another poster who, in a fashion all too typical of Clark supporters, makes an assertion that is nothing more than an opinion and expects it to support their argument. That was really my beef -- illogical arguments, not Clark per se.

I am indeed glad that Clark holds some promise against Bush. I'm all for Clark supporters working hard for their man -- he may be my man too one day. But, in the mean time, I'm just trying to keep it real in defense of my choice.

[webkev]

33. what do you think could be in his records?

and why cant he just show his records now?

[OrAnarch]

27. Stupid Politics...

"how come Clark wishes to cut the pentagon budget and dean has no intention of doing this? "

IMHO, Clark says he intends to do such to appeal to the left and Dean doesn't touch the issue to appeal to the center. Probably not good indicators of what they are really going to do. :)

The rest is just rehashed garbage in another thread for a new hour.

[webkev]

28. Oi!

hey you stole my sig idea?
what are you implying by that anyway?

[OrAnarch]

30. Haha....

Well, its a jumble of ideas. I got fed up with people militantly telling me what I NEED. We NEED a hero, we NEED a leader, etc, etc. Just seems like it is rhetoric that leads people astray. First off, no one person can tell the masses what they need based on what that one person wants. I also feel that their personal need is rather indictative of their character in a somewhat negative way. Secondly, a leader and a hero can be made out of people who stand here in American politics and preserve liberalism, and is not neccessitated by involvement in a far off jungle 30 years ago. As soon as it becomes such and military becomes a prerequisite for leadership and what people NEED, then I am afraid that the sheep will follow anyone they can find, regardless of where they really stand, into the darkest days of American history.


No one needs to be told what they need. Elections should be about hope and passion, not choosing by neccessity or fear. Quite a few of the worst leaders were chosen by a need out of fear, who drummed up patriotism, and who also donned the garb of the military, as to firmly lead the patriots to a new pinnacle of their country's history.


In the end, perhaps it is only you that needs something greater than yourself. But be weary to assimilate yourself to another cause and need, and never forget the cry of history.


(oh yeah, the donor part is a bit about electability, since it seems to be on to be on everyone's favorite list of things to talk about these days, but means absolutely nothing. Clark supporters are rather fond of using a one sided argument about his electability, and to my surprise, no one has used this irrational and lame argument back against him. As long as everyone is bitching about everyone elses electability, no one will be so, and it wont take Bush much to beat anyone)

[webkev]

31. yeah, but its very disrespectful to Clark supporters

i don't call dean a Nazi!

also, I have no problem with people voting for a candidate because they represent their beliefs.


but people who vote for Dean are Anti War - and Dean was only truly Anti War afterwards. They rule out the people who had to vote on the resolution even though Dean did not have to vote on the resolution
He also has not ruled out pre emptive attacks on North Korea should they not give up their weapons of Mass Destruction

Dean has not better a chance of winning than anyone else so I take offense to anyone try to make it out that he is more Anti war than other candidates

[OrAnarch]

34. I apologize if it is intrepreted as such...

As Yogi would say, Half sarcasm, half joke, and half commentary. No need to take it personally. Perhaps I shouldn't be taking such so personally when you are telling me what I need without even knowing who I am and what I want out of life.


An no, you do not call Dean a nazi, like I do not call anyone a nazi too. I wish I picked some better imagery as to not cause confusion, but Im probably screwed anyway I go in expressing myself. :) And thank you for not calling other candidates names...that is counter-productive.


Something about that sigline just repeatedly got under my skin till I had to say something. I believe there are many subtle undertones that I was reading into it, wether implied or not, so I tried to present a counter-statement without flaming which contains some not-so-subtle statements, and perhaps, some I did not wish to make.


Regardless, I am glad I resorted to art rather than posting a new misleading thread every hour to convince people to hate a candidate.

[webkev]

35. thats my opinion.. but

I don't manipulate the Dean logo and put a Nazi in..

You can say whatever "We need a Doctor not a General" messages that you want - but I still find that very offensive

[OrAnarch]

36. BTW, don't yet paint me as a Dean supporter...

to tarnish his image by my actions. Although I support many things he says, etc, I am committed to no one. I just wanted to drop that line. Besides his military past and campaigning on such, the reason I am so fed up with Clark is because many of the people he appeals to are militaristic and hard to deal with on the boards (a presumptuous reflection of him perhaps). I would hate for the dumbass actions of this independent to hurt any of the images of the candidates I would still be willing to vote for. Ill rethink such art, eh? In the meantime, I think it is crafty, yet fallacious, for you to say I support anyone (I do not imply it is intentional).

[webkev]

37. he appeals to people who are militaristic?

is michael moore militaristic? is Jon Stewart Militaristic? Is Bill maher militaristic?
he appeals to people who want to win!!

I'd back dean if I taught he could win

and I am only using Howard as an example
i never said you were a Dean supporter

[OrAnarch]

38. Yes he does...

I truly have felt vehemetly attacked by Clark supporters in a militaristic fashion on the board when trying to rationally discuss issues. I feel the manner in which Clark supporters post new attack threads regarding other candidates daily (or hourly), which they posted the day before, and then rabidly defend such, is militaristic in nature. It is the ability and desire to execute a verbal assault on people who may disagree fundementally. Perhaps my perception is off...perhaps not. I know I am not the only one who feels that way, that many, not all, Clark supporters can be very hard to deal with because of their aggressive nature.


Of course, I attribute something to a man who consitstantly appeals to those type of people. Something in his nature must reach out to those with agreessive tendecies. Maybe Im reading too much into the hourly attack posts of a few supporters...maybe Im a bit presumptuous. I apologize if such is true. But it has come to the point that every time I see a Clark banner, I am reminded of his supporters, and shudder to think of an America full of those type of people.


Not everyone has this nature, no. As in your examples of course. But from this board, I would say the majority.


BTW, it is sad you would back Dean if you thought he could win and state people back Clark because of his imaginary electability. Such a decision should be made more on an idealogical basis. Hell, If Condi Rice had a shot at winning with Wolfowitz as VP, would you back them? Sometimes its more than just winning, because if you have won with the same team, you have won nothing.


Might as well campaign Bush in 04 if you are that concerned with winning, but if you are rather concerned with the candidate, you may wanna reconsider your options. As soon as everyone throws away the electability myth (that Rove had a hand in), then every candidate becomes electable. Everytime you state such a lie, you pander to the Bush's team, and eliminate 8 great candidates. That point from many people has been touch on ad nausea, so Ill let it rest, but Im sure you get the point.

[webkev]

41. imaginary??

“Clark vs. Bush” -- Clark wins 49.4% to 40.2% in a blind-bio match-up versus President Bush among a national poll of likely voters

there is nothing imaginary about that

people on my other message board put me down as a traitor because I back someone like Clark - but when I try to have a debate with them on the issues they do not want to know about it. Clark is a good man who has had to make some tough decisions - he is a really smart man, and ask me any questions you want about him

Average Joe doesn't want to hear thing like:

"I still have this old-fashioned notion that even with people like Osama, who is very likely to be found guilty, we should do our best not to, in positions of executive power, not to prejudge jury trials."

why could he not just avoid this question? or prance around it?

[OrAnarch]

46. Yes, imaginary...

Untill you build a time machine and can take us to both scenerios to provide real proof on an event which has not happened yet, it remains baseless right-wing rhetoric. As long as democrats are willing to pander to Rovian talking points like "electability", no democrat will be electable, as the argument can be applied to anyone. It is a divisive term based on nothing but a need to cause fear among the electorate. Every time you use it, you do Rove's job for him. Period.


BTW, regarding Dean's quote, I agree wholeheartedly with it. Most thinking human beings should too. Perhaps the difference between you and people who support him, is you want a candidate who panders and appeals to the right-wing bias and fascist nature of current America. Other people want to reach out to Americans, pull them left, and educate them properly regarding politics, which is a tougher thing to do, but far more idealistic. Afterall, if we can only find a candidate that will win in Bush's America, I do not care, as it is not the America I want to live in. The landscape is begging to be changed, and it will not be altered by prancing around and avoiding issues, as you so easily put it. Reach out!

[dkf]

48. I love Dean and I am anti-stupid-wars.

I think we should have done more in Afghanistan. The two attempted assassinations of Musharraf tell me that this area should be the center of our war on terrorism. Instead we overextend our troops fighting to remove some homeless guy hiding in a hole in Iraq.

[catherineD]

39. I've wondered the same things. Nicely put.

It's a pity that there isn't someplace to post such things to people who are still trying to decide where they stand, instead of here, where most people have already made their decisions and don't seem to be interested in hearing things that might conflict with that decision.

[Myra]

40. They're legit questions

I don't see answers here.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

42. See post #1 and post #16

before the whole thing erupted into a pissing match and had no point.

[Myra]

47. Um, I know this is off topic Amerikav60, but Steve Earle is the best

The best...

Nice DU login you have: Amerika V6.0.

[maxanne]

44. nice to see you

making friends here, webkev. :hi:

[webkev]

45. I know you

:hi: