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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 12:47 PM Original message |
Clark's tax policy hypocrisy |
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papau
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Mon Feb-09-04 12:56 PM Response to Original message |
1. Good point - removing 90% of the rich's income - investment/gains - |
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Nicholas D Wolfwood
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Mon Feb-09-04 12:59 PM Response to Original message |
2. I can't wait for the primary to end |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:04 PM Response to Reply #2 |
7. It gives me such a headache. |
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BootinUp
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:21 PM Response to Reply #7 |
23. Comments |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:45 PM Response to Reply #23 |
41. All I'm saying: full disclosure. If Clark wants to compare his and Edwards |
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mmonk
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:00 PM Response to Original message |
3. Most of what Clark earned in his life |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:07 PM Response to Reply #3 |
8. He's earned a lot of money in the last two years from corporate activity |
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mmonk
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:13 PM Response to Reply #8 |
12. Give me a break |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:14 PM Response to Reply #12 |
16. Clark made 1.2 mil on a stock sale last week. Edwards's tax plan would |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:19 PM Response to Reply #16 |
21. So what? Clark has already said that his own tax plan would |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:23 PM Response to Reply #21 |
25. Clark is making a ton of money off of corporate activity NOW. |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:30 PM Response to Reply #25 |
31. So, what exactly is your point? |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:42 PM Response to Reply #31 |
39. Clark's tax plan isn't more progressive than Edwards's |
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BootinUp
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:47 PM Response to Reply #39 |
43. This is ridiculous |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:50 PM Response to Reply #43 |
46. Reduce investment capital? |
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BootinUp
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:53 PM Response to Reply #46 |
49. It will also cause interest rates to go up and |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:57 PM Response to Reply #49 |
55. No it won't. The tax code is a huge subsidy to size. It's as bad for |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:56 PM Response to Reply #39 |
54. AP, you're (unintentionally, I'm sure) hilarious. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:00 PM Response to Reply #54 |
57. LMAO. Edwards wasn't a corporate attorney. He represented INDIVIDUALS |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:02 PM Response to Reply #57 |
61. Let's see Edwards' financial documents. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:07 PM Response to Reply #61 |
63. He made a ton of money from WORKING FOR A LIVING -- EARNED INCOME |
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SahaleArm
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:10 PM Response to Reply #63 |
65. As opposed to fleecing doctors and insurance companies... |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:18 PM Response to Reply #65 |
72. Yeah, those great HMOs and corporate hospitials who only have |
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BootinUp
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:10 PM Original message |
So Clarks plan is tougher on the malpractice Lawyers? |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:17 PM Response to Original message |
71. Yeah. That's Democratic. Criticize lawyers who represent individuals |
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BootinUp
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:30 PM Response to Reply #71 |
82. I didn't criticize them for the good stuff they do |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:20 PM Response to Reply #63 |
74. If you can't see that your argument applies more to Edwards than to |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:26 PM Response to Reply #74 |
78. Show me what you're looking at for Clark's income. |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:32 PM Response to Reply #78 |
85. Wrong. Much of his income is from speech fees, as anyone who has brought |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:38 PM Response to Reply #85 |
90. You can pay for speeches with stocks, which is what Bush I did. |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:40 PM Response to Reply #90 |
92. Yes, but is that income? No, it isn't. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:50 PM Response to Reply #92 |
98. Um, actually it is. You'd have to declare the value of the stock as |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:59 PM Response to Reply #98 |
103. No, you don't. Stock options are not taxable income at the time... |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:07 PM Response to Reply #103 |
106. If you're paid for a speech in STOCKS (not options) you pay the value |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:11 PM Response to Reply #106 |
110. Fine. Provide a link to ANYTHING that EVER said Clark has gotten |
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Lurking Dem
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:08 PM Response to Reply #103 |
107. That is exactly right. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:12 PM Response to Reply #107 |
112. Many silicon valley employees sat on their stocks when their rights |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:22 PM Response to Reply #112 |
118. Yes, but MOST stock options are NOT taxable income upon issuance. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:25 PM Response to Reply #118 |
122. The point of getting stocks rather than salary is to avoid paying 38% |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:37 PM Response to Reply #78 |
87. Here you go. Where's your proof? |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:38 PM Response to Reply #87 |
89. In case that's not enough, here are some more sources.... |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:39 PM Response to Reply #87 |
91. He sold stock last week worth 1.2 mil. We talked about it hear yesterday. |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:42 PM Response to Reply #91 |
93. That's irrelevant to your claims. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:46 PM Response to Reply #93 |
94. You know, you could cite his FEC statement, and then we could see |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:51 PM Response to Reply #94 |
99. Feel free. I provided you with documentation. You have provided nothing |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:17 PM Response to Reply #99 |
116. I gave you as much as you gave me. |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:23 PM Response to Reply #116 |
119. Where? I provided links. You provided nothing. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:27 PM Response to Reply #119 |
123. I encourage everyone to check Clark's FEC records & cross-ref the |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:30 PM Response to Reply #123 |
127. Take your time. We'll wait. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:33 PM Response to Reply #127 |
131. Boxter, I have no doubt that I'm making the more persuasive argument. |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:42 PM Response to Reply #131 |
136. No, you're not. You're making unsubstantiated claims about the |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:51 PM Response to Reply #136 |
142. I've said that he doesn't distinguishe between earned and unearned income |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:18 PM Response to Reply #12 |
20. Hehe. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:25 PM Response to Reply #20 |
27. Funny how time stopped for Clark two years ago. He made 1.2 mil last week |
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Tom Rinaldo
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:13 PM Response to Reply #8 |
13. If Clark were worried about his own income and taxes |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:14 PM Response to Reply #8 |
14. Much of his income the past couple of years has been speaking fees. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:16 PM Response to Reply #14 |
18. Bush got paid his speaking fees in stock options. Is Clark? |
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LiberalBushFan
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:02 PM Response to Original message |
4. Don't try to make Edward's career as an attorney seem more honorable |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:08 PM Response to Reply #4 |
9. We're talking about working for a lving. Clark will have little earned inc |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:33 PM Response to Reply #9 |
34. Hell, he worked for 34 years in the military. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:02 PM Response to Reply #34 |
60. What more do I want? Perhaps full disclosure. If Clark is going to tell |
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digno dave
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:01 PM Response to Reply #9 |
59. 34 years of military pay |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:04 PM Response to Reply #59 |
62. How has he made his living for the last 2 years? How about next 20? |
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digno dave
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:10 PM Response to Reply #62 |
66. s-t-r-e-t-c-h |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:19 PM Response to Reply #66 |
73. I think running for president is making him a more valuable commodity. |
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robbedvoter
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:26 PM Response to Reply #4 |
29. Attorney? That would be injury lawyer - and I'lleave it there. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:30 PM Response to Reply #29 |
81. It would be professional negligence for a laywer to take on a claim |
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kiahzero
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:02 PM Response to Original message |
5. For what income level will taxes be lower |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:10 PM Response to Reply #5 |
10. Not just income level, but income source. People who get unearned income |
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kiahzero
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:16 PM Response to Reply #10 |
17. You still haven't explained much of anything |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:20 PM Response to Reply #17 |
22. Edwards is shifting the tax burden off of earned income. |
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kiahzero
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:28 PM Response to Reply #22 |
30. WTF? |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:48 PM Response to Reply #30 |
45. I'm saying that Edwards cares about the distinction. Clark doesn't. |
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kiahzero
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:53 PM Response to Reply #45 |
48. So it's a rhetorical thing, then (n/t) |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:54 PM Response to Reply #48 |
51. It's a ECONOMIC thing. |
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mmonk
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:22 PM Response to Reply #10 |
24. So the elderly in retirement |
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Tom Rinaldo
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:03 PM Response to Original message |
6. Wow. I am amazed at how lightly you brushed this off. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:12 PM Response to Reply #6 |
11. It's good. But Clark says nothing about asking people like himself -- |
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LandOLincoln
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:26 PM Response to Reply #11 |
28. Just one question re this Edwards as Robin Hood meme |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:37 PM Response to Reply #28 |
36. His entire professional life was pro bono. If he didn't win, it was pro... |
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LandOLincoln
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:15 PM Response to Reply #36 |
68. Most lawyers do |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:25 PM Response to Reply #68 |
77. That's actually not true. Many big firms don't do it very seriously. |
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LandOLincoln
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:47 PM Response to Reply #77 |
96. Ralph Nader? Ralph NADER???? |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:00 PM Response to Reply #96 |
104. You don't want to address the rest of my post? |
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LandOLincoln
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:11 PM Response to Reply #104 |
111. Well, okay: |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:14 PM Response to Reply #111 |
113. What kind of law did they do, and what kind of pro bono work did they do? |
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LandOLincoln
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:41 PM Response to Reply #113 |
135. The attorneys working for the big firms... |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:47 PM Response to Reply #135 |
138. Those are exactly the kinds of lawyers who owe it to society to do probono |
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LandOLincoln
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:57 PM Response to Reply #138 |
144. Generally, the young lawyers were doing it because it |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 04:01 PM Response to Reply #144 |
147. So you're cynical about pro bono, but you're mad at Edwards for going |
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Justice
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:23 PM Response to Reply #36 |
75. Not Pro Bono, Called Contingency |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:28 PM Response to Reply #75 |
80. If Edwards lost, it was free. Those families could never pay for the cost |
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LandOLincoln
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:30 PM Response to Reply #75 |
83. Excellent point. Thank you, Justice. nt |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:27 PM Response to Reply #36 |
79. That is not pro bono. Not even close. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:37 PM Response to Reply #79 |
86. NOBODY is ever going to do a pro bono case worth 15 mil. Know why? |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:46 PM Response to Reply #86 |
95. Then, don't call it "pro bono" and don't try to claim that Edwards did |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:48 PM Response to Reply #95 |
97. If a lawyer did a year of conditional fee or contingency suits and didn't |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:06 PM Response to Reply #97 |
105. Did Edwards ever go a year without winning a case? |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:09 PM Response to Reply #105 |
108. Are you going to hate him for winning cases for individuals against large |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:16 PM Response to Reply #108 |
115. I don't hate him at all. I like John Edwards. I was objecting to your |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:19 PM Response to Reply #115 |
117. I was being a literalist: "FOR GOOD" -- all his work was for good. If he |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:24 PM Response to Reply #117 |
121. No, you said, "His entire professional life was pro bono." |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:28 PM Response to Reply #121 |
124. Yeah. I still say that. |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:30 PM Response to Reply #124 |
128. No, I think you misunderstood "pro bono". |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:31 PM Response to Reply #128 |
130. No. I think you misunderstood me. |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:36 PM Response to Reply #130 |
133. "His entire professional life was pro bono. " |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:41 PM Response to Reply #133 |
134. I have this kind of argument with people who are losing the real arg- |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:47 PM Response to Reply #134 |
139. Or change the subject. |
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LandOLincoln
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:51 PM Response to Reply #134 |
141. The only person losing this "argument" is the one who |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:54 PM Response to Reply #141 |
143. Hello. I never compared Edwards's and Clarks former careers. |
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BootinUp
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:23 PM Response to Reply #108 |
120. Where did you get the idea that |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:28 PM Response to Reply #120 |
125. No kidding. Some sources say Edwards made $50 million in his career. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:30 PM Response to Reply #125 |
129. They say he won over 250 million for his clients. I doubt any candidate |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:29 PM Response to Reply #120 |
126. From reading Four Trials. |
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BootinUp
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:34 PM Response to Reply #126 |
132. Well, then the book would have to be fiction |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:44 PM Response to Reply #132 |
137. Which other candidate has transferred 250 mil from neg corps to individual |
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BootinUp
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:51 PM Response to Reply #137 |
140. In the world according to you |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:58 PM Response to Reply #140 |
145. In the world in which we're heading towards, there will be 7 corporations |
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mmonk
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:31 PM Response to Reply #11 |
32. People who make over 1 million |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:36 PM Response to Reply #32 |
35. No, you didn't hear wrong. That is correct.... |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:38 PM Response to Reply #35 |
37. If their extra million is from cap gains, they'll pay 10% more w/ Edwards |
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mmonk
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:55 PM Response to Reply #37 |
53. Defend Edwards' tax plan from |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:00 PM Response to Reply #37 |
58. Your definition of progressive needs some work. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:14 PM Response to Reply #58 |
67. Progressivity: doesn't stop at 50K. Our society delivers a HUGE amount of |
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boxster
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:24 PM Response to Reply #67 |
76. You obviously didn't really read his tax plan. |
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SahaleArm
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:14 PM Response to Original message |
15. Keep repeating uninformed tripe about how options are taxed... |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:17 PM Response to Reply #15 |
19. They're taxed on their value when the vest. Any increas is taxed as cap... |
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SahaleArm
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:24 PM Response to Reply #19 |
26. No you are taxed on what you make - option spread. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:33 PM Response to Reply #26 |
33. You have to pay as earned income the value of the shares on the day your |
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SahaleArm
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:41 PM Response to Reply #33 |
38. Again where are you getting this data? It's ordinary income. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:47 PM Response to Reply #38 |
42. I guarnatee you Clark isn't paying earned income rates on the income he's |
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BootinUp
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:48 PM Response to Reply #42 |
44. He's not sitting on boards, he has resigned. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:52 PM Response to Reply #44 |
47. He stills has the shares and options, and he's selling them, and he's |
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BootinUp
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:54 PM Response to Reply #47 |
52. Can I borrow that crystal ball? |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:08 PM Response to Reply #52 |
64. You think he's going to turn down millions? If he had it in him, he might |
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SahaleArm
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:58 PM Response to Reply #42 |
56. NQSO's or Restricted stock - You still pay income. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:16 PM Response to Reply #56 |
69. Hold even an NQSO for a year, and you're paying 20% tax on it. |
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TexasSissy
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:43 PM Response to Original message |
40. What's the pt. of this post? Both these guys are out of the race, dude. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 01:53 PM Response to Reply #40 |
50. Actually, that's part of my point. Isn't it interesting that Clark is |
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maxr4clark
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:17 PM Response to Original message |
70. This isn't hypocrisy. |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:32 PM Response to Reply #70 |
84. Clark should tell people the difference between the two plans on his own |
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MaddogTerp
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:59 PM Response to Reply #70 |
146. Not hypocrisy |
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andym
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:38 PM Response to Original message |
88. Both are good ideas! |
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Bread and Circus
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:51 PM Response to Original message |
100. Tall tale of the day: |
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Julien Sorel
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:57 PM Response to Reply #100 |
101. LOL |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 02:57 PM Response to Reply #100 |
102. How much of his lifetime earnigns do you think weren't taxes as earned inc |
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Kbick
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:09 PM Response to Original message |
109. Read Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki |
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AP
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Mon Feb-09-04 03:15 PM Response to Reply #109 |
114. Clark doesn't distinguish between income from work and from investments |
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DU
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Sat Sep 07th 2024, 08:27 PM Response to Original message |
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