Candidates' stances on the draft?

[Property]

I have been unable to find information on what the 2004 candidates think about the draft.

Not just how they feel about it at noon every other Thursday, but what each would actually do about it were he to be elected to the presidency; for each candidate, would he ignore the draft and leave it as it stands, would he get rid of it, or would he agree with / "promote" it? (And correct me if I'm wrong, but the U.S. draft still exists for 16-y.o. males or somesuch, right?)

If you know what any of the candidates would do, I would appreciate your info. TiA!

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. The only one that I am aware off

that has made a statement was Clark, durijng the CNN debate he was asked

He said it was a bad idea

Since it is not overtly on the table, I do not think they want to make it an issue YET

[Property]

3. Thanks...

"He said it was a bad idea"

Did he sound like he'd want to get rid of it if he were in office, or did he just generally say he thought it was a bad idea?

"Since it is not overtly on the table, I do not think they want to make it an issue YET"

Understood. I just want to know their positions for my own reference.

Thanks.

[roguevalley]

2. agreed. Clark has said repeatedly that he's adamantly against

the draft.

[quinnox]

4. I read on DU that Kerry is for the draft

but, lol, I also read that Kerry is for mandatory slavery of high school students, so take it with a (large) grain of salt.

[mikehiggins]

16. What is odd about Kerry's idea

is that most high schools have that requirement already. My daughter went to Townsend Harris High in Queens, NY (free plug for a really dynamic experimental school) and community service was a requirement for graduation.

My son went to Art & Design in NYC and the same thing was in effect.

Is this news to the Senator?

Do other states have different requirements?

[JI7]

28. he knows

he knows it's already in some schools. he thinks it's a good idea to include it as part of the education nationally in all schools. i think it calls for the specifics of the programs to be done by the state and locally. his actual plan includes something for all people, the high school part is just one small part of it. it also includes giving senior citizens tax credits to volunteer time doing things such as helping kids read or teaching other things, allowing college students to get tuition in exchange for volunteering etc.

[maddezmom]

32. I like Kerry's plan

The senior tax break is excellent.

[maddezmom]

5. Don't know for sure, but I'd say DK is not for a draft n/t

[diamondsoul]

6. Kucinich opposes it.

Oh, and it's 18 to register to be Drafted in the US.

Here's a quote from Dennis Kucinich on the Draft-

"The toll of deaths and injuries to our troops is rising in Iraq. Now it is urgent to oppose the Pentagon's aggressive recruitment of students and to oppose a draft. We should be working to eventually eliminate draft registration for men, not contemplating requiring it of women in the name of fair treatment, and certainly not contemplating implementing it for the sake of the occupation of Iraq or any other 'preemptive' war for corporate profit."

**edit to add, what he's saying is a Draft wouldn't be an immediate concern if he were elected President because he wouldn't use it, but that he'd want it abolished before he left office.

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. I met Wes Clark

in Chicago and my 10 year old son asked him.."What's your position on the draft?" General Clark said..."We don't need a draft." Period.

We don't need a draft and he's not going to reinstate it.

[Property]

8. "needing" a draft

"in Chicago and my 10 year old son asked him.."What's your position on the draft?" General Clark said..."We don't need a draft." Period."

Well, there's a difference between thinking we need a draft at any particular point and actually disagreeing with a draft. So just going on the info you provided, he still sounds rather ambiguous on the issue to me.

[Jerseycoa]

9. Keep trying

He is opposed to the draft. He is firmly committed to the volunteer army.

[diamondsoul]

10. He's not ambiguous at all.

Clark has said many times a draft would be detrimental to our military, therefore one can surmise between those two very direct and succinct comments he opposes the Draft entirely.

People should also bear in mind Clark was serving while there were drafted members. He KNOWS what happens when you put unwilling, unreliable and absolutely defiant soldiers on a battlefield. It ain't pretty.

[Property]

11. Here's what I have thus far:

Here's what I have thus far:

Clark - against; would abolish
Dean - ?
Kucinich - against; would "eventually" abolish (whatever that means)
Lieberman - ?

A couple others:

B. Clinton - ?
H. Clinton - ?
Gore - ?

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Property]

22. Wha?

I'm just getting all the info on the candidates. I didn't expect each person here to know everything about ever candidate. You helped supply some info I was looking for. Thanks for that.

Again, good lord.

[in_cog_ni_to]

12. Maybe THIS will be good enough for you.

:eyes: This is the transcript from the CNN Rock The Vote debate.

COOPER: All right. We have a wireless question for General Clark. By the way, we have questions on this topic for all of you. General Clark, this is a wireless question. Would you reinstate the draft? I think they asked this because one of your senior campaign advisers, Congressman Charlie Rangel, says the draft should be reinstated. It's time. Is it?

CLARK: No. I don't think it's time to reinstate the draft. America's armed forces need people who want to be there. And I would not reinstate the draft.

I am worried about the armed forces. And I agree with a lot of things John said. He's exactly right. The armed forces are overextended and particularly with our Reservists and our National Guardsmen. We're using them in a way that, frankly, was never intended.

But the answer to this is first to take care of the Reserve, the National Guard, give them the health care they need, give it to them while they're still in their civilian status as reservists and guardsmen, and give them the health care they need and their families need when they're deployed and when they return home. And keep them on their full pay and allowances if they're injured in some way and then brought back to the States.

You know, it's a shocking that we found down at Fort Stewart, Georgia. A bunch of guys who fought over in Iraq were left alone in concrete cinderblock buildings. They were reservists and guardsmen. They didn't have enough medics and doctors to keep them there. And they were there for months without getting proper medical care. We should fix it.

But here's the key thing on the draft. We believe that the armed forces are better with a volunteer force. And what this country has to understand is that when it puts a foreign policy in place that the American people don't support, the answer for that is not to reinstitute the draft, but to change the foreign policy, and that's where we're headed with Iraq.

(APPLAUSE)

Is THAT direct enough for you? "NO, I WOULD NOT REINSTATE THE DRAFT." :eyes:

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0311/04/se.03.html

[Donna Zen]

13. Hmmmm?

Silence from the spinners.

Thanks for the quote, and yes, he has said it as many times as he has been asked.

[Property]

14. Good lord.

I have the point by now.

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. Oh,

I thought from THIS statement there was STILL a question after my "personal" account of his stance on the draft.

Well, there's a difference between thinking we need a draft at any particular point and actually disagreeing with a draft. So just going on the info you provided, he still sounds rather ambiguous on the issue to me.

I'm glad I could clear that up for you.

[Property]

17. Actually,

You didn't clear it up for me; someone else did. Doesn't matter to me, though.

[in_cog_ni_to]

19. Good.

Just so you're clear on his stance. That's the most important thing.

[Property]

20. Gotcha.

Now if I could get the rest of post #11 cleared up for me. =)

[TacticalPeek]

26. Clark is actually saying something better than 'no draft'.

He is saying change the foreign policy, not the manning system. This indicts bushco and pnac for blundering into harm's way leading to panic-talk of a draft, demonstrating the failure of their twisted vision.

[KittyWampus]

18. Devil's Advocate-NO President Could Avoid A Draft IF IT WAS NECESSARY

It's not inconcievable though, that something catastrophic could happen and a Draft would become necessary.

[Jerseycoa]

23. Yes

That is always true, unfortunately.

[AntiCoup2K4]

27. You mean, like a Bush "re"-election??

I don't believe any of the Democratic candidates would want to return to the Draft, but if Junior gets a chance to invade Iran and/or Syria, I can't see the Draft NOT happenning. And meanwhile, while the Idiot Son of an Asshole has troops occupying half the Middle East, who is left to defend THIS country? :grr:

[Tinoire]

24. Clark is for "Compulsory Volunteerism"

A kindler, gentler not-really-a-draft but still a bunch of poor kids who need the money, signing up thinking they might be of service and then ending up on an overseas reconstruction binge (I would kill to see the plans for the Iraq Occupation that Clark drew up) and are responsible to the President.

The test of whether this is a good idea or not is:... is to imagine how the program would be used by a president you don't like. not clark. not dean. not jfk. how would nixon, reagan, or bush have used this program? would you support this idea if bush had proposed it? ((pointed out by my friend dfong) Another force to be called up as the leader sees fit... A Praetorian guard?


===

Clark Calls for Civilian Reserve Force

Wednesday October 15, 2003 12:46 AM
CHAKA FERGUSON

Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK (AP) - Democratic candidate Wesley Clark said Tuesday that if elected president, he would mobilize thousands of volunteers for a civilian reserve to respond to terror attacks and national disasters.

Clark said the reserve, much like the National Guard, could be called up by the president in times of national emergency. Every American 18 or older could register for a five-year tour and would serve as long as six months if called to duty.

<snip>

Those called to duty would receive health care, a stipend and the right to return to their jobs when their service had been completed. Clark, one of nine Democrats seeking the nomination, said the program would cost about $100 million a year and would be within the Department of Homeland Security.

<snip>

Civilian reservists also could be sent overseas for jobs like reconstruction in Afghanistan and Iraq.

<snip>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-3264297,00.html

===

Published on Saturday, October 25, 2003 by King Features Syndicate
Gen. Wesley Clark's Compulsory Volunteerism
by Charley Reese

American politics has become so dumbed down that no one seems to have picked up on the contradiction in Gen. Wesley Clark's proposal for a civilian reserve force.

People who volunteered would sign up for five years and could be called to "active duty" by the president for up to six months. They could also be sent overseas. Compulsory volunteerism is, of course, a contradiction in terms.

People have become confused because the alternative to a military draft is called an "all-volunteer" force rather than what it is, which is a mercenary force. That is acceptable use of the language. Nevertheless, it is misleading. What one does when one "volunteers" for military service is enlist in and join an organization. The instant you take the oath, you are required to obey orders. Like the sham democracies in some African countries, where people get to vote one time and then live under a dictatorship, you volunteer one time to join and thereafter are subject to compulsion.

What the general is proposing is another military-style organization without uniforms or weapons. The general ought to watch the famous film of the Munich rally of the Nazi party. Adolf Hitler had the same idea. The film shows thousands of civilians standing at attention holding shovels. They were called, I believe, "labor battalions."

<reluctant snip>

http://reese.king-online.com/Reese_20031024/
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1025-04.htm

This is eeringly in line with what Bush and the DLC have both been proposing. One must also wonder, as Black Commentator pointed out why Charlie Rangel, the same person calling for the reinstatement of the draft, has so eagerly jumped on Clark's band-wagon. Inquiring minds are not at peace over this one.

====

This is just a wee bit too reminiscent of Nixon and his secret plan to end the war in Vietnam.

Clark Says He Has Plan for Iraq, but Will Not Offer Details (NYT)
New York Times, December 5, 2003

NASHUA, N.H., Dec. 4 — Gen. Wesley K. Clark assured a crowd at a college campus here on Thursday that he had a strategy to secure Iraq and bring American soldiers home, criticizing the Bush administration for not producing a timeline to withdraw troops.

But General Clark later refused to specify when he would bring troops home or how many more soldiers might be needed to stabilize Iraq.

<snip

http://www.vaiw.org/vet/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=291
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/05/politics/campaigns/05CLAR.html

Discussed here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=253999#254416

[Donna Zen]

25. Volunteer

Volunteer now has a new meaning? How clever...how inventive!

And sliding that word "compusory" into your heading, all the while knowing full well that that is not in Clark's description, but only yours. What do they call that in journalism? Yellow!

The reconstruction is Afghanistan and Iraq does not appear on Clark's paper, although it does specify that any volunteer duty would never be in a war zone.

Of course if you want to start your own program, then you could do that. But Clark's program is not. Okay?

NO MILITARY...of course this is the same shit that was said about the peace corps...Whoa, spys!!!!

This is just a wee bit too reminiscent of Nixon and his secret plan to end the war in Vietnam. Great editoral! That there are no dots to connect doesn't seem to bother you.

As usual you have posted your fears, rather than the facts.

It is a volunteer program. Even if you have volunteered and decide you don't want to go, you don't have to. Think of it as a reserve "peace corps." No guns, no military, no draft.

There is a clause for specialist...in case of emergency...think earthquake and we need doctors. No guns, no military, no draft.

No draft...and I'm sure that Rangel can accept the fact that he and Clark can have a difference of opinion. I hope you try to accept that too.

No guns, no draft, no military, no compulsory,

What good would this do poor kids? Having a job for 6 months out of 5 years. I mean, I just don't think they can live on that.

BTW, I'd sign up in a heart beat. Cool. I like to think about going out and helping in a crisis. I am also not afraid of imaginary monsters, and I read.

[Tinoire]

30. Again

This is eeringly in line with what Bush and the DLC have both been proposing. One must also wonder, as Black Commentator pointed out why Charlie Rangel, the same person calling for the reinstatement of the draft, has so eagerly jumped on Clark's band-wagon. Inquiring minds are not at peace over this one.

The test of whether this is a good idea or not is:... is to imagine how the program would be used by a president you don't like. not clark. not dean. not jfk. how would nixon, reagan, or bush have used this program? would you support this idea if bush had proposed it? ((pointed out by my friend dfong) Another force to be called up as the leader sees fit... A Praetorian guard?

[mikehiggins]

33. Rangel did not bring up the draft to help Clark

The draft resolution was aimed at making the general public wake up as to what blind support for Bush's agenda was going to lead to. The Rangel plan would involve EVERYONE being subject to the draft, no matter how much money their family had, or even how much money their family had. Even how much money their family had would not prevent them from getting drafted, nor would how much money their family had.

This is obviously a shockingly radical proposition, especially for those who assumed only those pesky blacks and hispanics and arabs would get drafted to support Bush's version of British imperialism.

Rangel was/is saying, not this time, boss. This time everybody goes, black and white, man and woman, rich and poor. Surprisingly enough, this approach has not elicited much support from the GOP side, who seem to feel the old approach was much better.

After all, if everyone had been eligible for the draft back in the day we might not have a bunch of chickenhawks like Cheney and Rumsfield and Wolfowitz and the Invisible Airman in power in D.C. or "I've got a boil on my ass" Rush Linbaugh on the radio.

Rangel is carrying the water for all the poor kids who would be trotted off to face the guns of our enemies while the privileged kids of the well-to-do danced the night away.

Clark is opposed to the draft. Rangel is opposed to the draft. The Congressman is making a point that people like that "Black Commentator" rag understand, but misrepresent. I doubt the kids of anyone connected with that sheet would find themselves being drafted under the old system either. Class distinctions have little to do with race, only with greed.

[JI7]

29. in the most extreme (not very likely) cases

kerry said only in the most extreme and not very likely cases. such as if we didn't have enough people in the military during a time when we needed to defend ourselves and there was no other choice but to start the draft.

[Myra]

31. Thanks for this thread.

Thank you to those who are focusing on policy and not outrageous smears.
There are some jaw-dropping smears on this forum right now,
and I appreciate the attempt to swim upstream and discuss policy
differences.