Dean forgets Dennis Kucinich one more time

[Karmadillo]

From yesterday's interview with Wolf Blitzer.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0402/08/le.00.html

<edit>

DEAN: Well, I hate to be -- totally gild the lily, but, in fact, our second place finishes are stronger than any we've had since New Hampshire. We're starting to come back. I think the people in Wisconsin, particularly, and in Maine today, are going to have a real choice.

Look, there's been a huge momentum after Iowa and New Hampshire. And Senator Kerry is the beneficiary of that momentum. With 15 percent of the delegates selected so far, I question whether Democrats really want to choose somebody that they don't know that much about. And I'd really like the opportunity to show there's a different way of taking on George Bush.

In the beginning, I was the only one willing to take on George Bush. All the other Democrats, including Senator Kerry, voted for the war, they voted for No Child Left Behind.

<edit>

DEAN: No, but for the first time since New Hampshire, we have some money. We're going to be on the air. I've spent an enormous amount of time in Wisconsin already.

I think Wisconsin people need two things: jobs and health care. I've created jobs as a governor. I've balanced budgets. And I've delivered health care. There's not one other person on the Democratic side that's done that.

I was willing to stand up for unions when nobody else would, except Dick Gephardt. I was willing to stand up against the war when nobody else would. I was willing to stand up against No Child Left Behind when nobody else would.

more...

[arcane1]

1. seems like ignoring DK has become a national pastime

but it just makes me love him that much more :loveya:

[Guaranteed]

69. You know Dean is TRYING to remember Kucinich...it's true...

Many times Dean has corrected himself after saying the exact same thing...he's trying to remember, it's just tough to get in the "except Dennis" every time he says it.

[LWolf]

82. I've noticed that.

I think its because he only inserts "except Dennis" when the cameras are rolling for a national audience; that's why he still, after all these months, has to "remember." Truth in advertising doesn't come naturally to him.

[goodhue]

2. chronic and inexcusable

and a loosing strategy to boot.

[Fovea]

3. I sometimes wonder

if he has problems pronouncing the name...

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

54. If Dean can say "Constitution"

He can say "Kucinich".

[DemBones DemBones]

4. Where's that thread asking why

people want Dean to drop out? :evilgrin:

[Mairead]

76. Exactly, DB. It's when Dean does stuff like that, that the milk of

tolerance curdles in me and I think 'shee-it, he should go'. Because that's a fairly simple thing to keep straight, for someone who's honest.

When he fails to keep it straight, he seems very close to Smirk in character. Smirk, too, tells self-serving lies with little or no qualm.

[Cuban_Liberal]

5. DK has MUCH bigger problems than this.

Talk about fiddling while Rome burns... :eyes:

[goodhue]

7. what problems do you refer to?

The fact that he appears to have won a national delegate in ME yesterday but is being snowed out of any reporting of that fact.

[Cuban_Liberal]

8. No money, 2 delegates, etc.

Most campaigns would consider those to be substantive problems, and wouldn't be concerned about some imagined slight by another candidate.

[goodhue]

10. $2.6 million cash on hand, about 10 times what Edwards has . . .

At least get current with your DK slams!
As of the Jan 31 reporting here is cash on hand of candidates . . .

Howard Dean (D)
$9,647,361

Wesley Clark (D)
$3,404,975

Dennis Kucinich (D)
$2,629,441

John Kerry (D)
$1,605,428

John Edwards (D)
$275,212

Lyndon H. Larouche Jr (D)
$63,949

Al Sharpton (D)
$7,535


http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/index.asp?sort=C

[Cuban_Liberal]

12. Oops!

Total Receipts: $6,227,898
Total Spent: $3,709,946
Cash on Hand: $2,629,441
Debts: $1,500,000

Again, Howard Dean neglecting to mention DK is the LEAST of his problems.

[goodhue]

21. Again, you are wrong to suggest $ is big problem for DK

His 1.5 million debts is loan based on the fact that he willl (eventually) get over 4 million in matching funds.

For full contrast between Kucinich and Edwards, here is Edwards figures (NOTE that unlike DK he is in red unless you count anticipated matching):

Edwards
Total Receipts: $14,453,092
Total Spent: $15,960,243
Cash on Hand: $275,212
Debts: $585,421
Date of last report: December 31, 2003

Kucinich
Total Receipts: $6,227,898
Total Spent: $3,709,946
Cash on Hand: $2,629,441
Debts: $1,500,000
Date of last report: December 31, 2003

[Cuban_Liberal]

31. Doesn't really address DK's delegate problem, though.

And that's what his MAJOR problem is--- not some pissant, imagined slight by Dr. Dean.

[youngred]

33. It is NOT imagined

and its a rather big slight considering how big an issue the war is for Dean and the race as a whole.

He does have a delegate problem, he got 16% in ME but no delegates...what gives?

[goodhue]

35. yes why is DK being denied his ME delegate?

conspiratorial minds want to know.
computer problems I've been told.

[youngred]

37. I don't know

last I heard the delegate threshold was 15% so it would seem that he should get a delegate from that :shrug:

I don't know if its computer problems or what, but he should get at least one

[youngred]

24. It's not imagined

its a chronic insult oft repeated and inexcusable.

[MuseRider]

6. There is really no

excuse for this anymore. I gave him the benefit of the doubt once, tried to let the second time pass but it just continues. Now he can't even say that he was only speaking about the "major" candidates because he said he was the only Democratic candidate. Dean for Dean. Power to Dean. Take back the country for Dean. THAT is the feeling I get. It only takes away from Dean to say these things, it certainly will not hurt Kucinich because his record is there for all to see.

[DustMolecule]

9. Yep...

Dennis Kucinich and Howard Dean are the only REAL candidates running...and if the 'best man can't win' (which I hope I'm wrong and a miracle happens), then the 'best man' better throw every ounce of his support behind the 'other guy'....and then the PEOPLE better get some spine themselves (instead of just accusing the candidates of not having much), and vote for the real 'best man' for the COUNTRY at large, not any special interest.

on edit: spelling

[tobius]

11. This has been

pointed out to Dean many times. Why am I not surprised that he would do this purposely?

[Freddie Stubbs]

13. He also forgot Lyndon Larouche

It is all a conspiracy to keep Larouche's message from the American people. Dean and the media elite are willing to marginalize Kucinich and Sharpton so that they can justify ignoring Larouche.

[OutlawCorporatePolls]

15. yeah u rite bout lyndon.

LL received more votes in NH than did moselybraun, but zip in the media. u think their afraid of dean? they have nightmares about lyndon getting any attention. if he ever gets a platform to speak, its all over.

http://www.larouchepub.com/

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. He got more votes than someone who had already dropped out?

That's very impressive.

[youngred]

29. he also outpolled Edwards Clark and Sharpton COMBINED

in Maine, and beat them both in Washington

[Freddie Stubbs]

34. Can you back that up with a link?

[youngred]

36. Look in the results thread

its in all the papers and right here too http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P04/ME-D.phtml

[Freddie Stubbs]

41. Larouche isn't listed there

or on any of the results that I have seen.

[youngred]

46. I was talking about Kucinich

sorry. LaRouche won't get anywhere, I don't see why you continue to bring him up as a strawman to attack DK

[Lydia Leftcoast]

59. So if Dennis is so insignificant

why do people still feel compelled to come onto DK threads and make these tiresome comments about LaRouche, a nutcase of twenty years standing?

I think I'm going to add $10 more to my monthly donation, $5.00 for each person making snarky remarks. That's $45.00 extra for Dennis.

[Cuban_Liberal]

16. Yeah, Dr. Dean and the vast media conspiracy are all that stands...

... between DK or LL and the nomination. :P

[OutlawCorporatePolls]

19. yup, its all about face time

agree.

[Paulie]

55. LaRouche is a convicted FELLON

No more fellons in the whitehouse!!!

[corporatewhore]

14. Where was dean while kucinich was marching in the battle in seattleagainst

the wto!!!!!

[stickdog]

65. Oh, I don't know ...

preserving a shred of electablity?

[MuseRider]

67. Now that is really funny.

You might want to think about that a little more.

[revcarol]

17. Inexcusable.

Happens over and over again!!

The Dean Plan?

[Hoppin_Mad]

18. I apologize FOR him ! $5 to Kooch ! -nt-

[MuseRider]

20. That is very kind of you. n/t

[pop goes the weasel]

26. aw, that's sweet! n/t

[pop goes the weasel]

22. typical Dean

Of all the remaining candidates, Dean is the single one that I would have a hard time voting for if he were to get the nomination, for the simple reason that he continuously li... excuse me--omits the truth--about DK. If it were just sometimes, I could overlook it, but it is a habit. It's incredibly divisive. If anyone close to Dean is on DU, they should do Dean and the rest of us a favor, and tell him to stop it already.

[youngred]

23. Anyone surprised?

anyone at all?

No matter how often he makes this claim and apologizes he keeps doing it. This is one of the main reasons I cannot stomach Dean. He claims to be the first, best and only...when in fact he was the third, not the strongest and not the only at all

[goodhue]

25. I wish I was.

From what I've observed Dean is now better about this when he is in the presence of DK, otherwise he lies with the best of them.

[MuseRider]

30. That is interesting

and now that you mentioned it he has been giving DK the respect to add his name when in his presence so what is the deal here? I am beginning to feel that he has little regard for the intellegence of the voting public, otherwise he would know that this is a old, well know trick of his and he would not risk his credibility continually.

[youngred]

32. the only time I've seen him amend it

was at the debates. Everywhere else its 'I'm the ONLY one!'

[MuseRider]

27. You nailed it

right there. Add that to the fact that we desperatly need honesty in our government. This does not bode well for a honest Dean administration.

[Mass_Liberal]

38. I'm sorry!

There. I'm sure Dr. Dean doesn't mean to offend Kucinich and his supporters. He's trying to distance himself from others, and if in doing so he slights Kucinich, I'm sure he's sorry. He certainly doesn't mean to.

[goodhue]

39. "He certainly doesn't mean to."

How do you know? He certainly knows better.

[MuseRider]

42. By lying?

He knows this is not true. I think we all were able to forgive it once, even twice but after that it just demeans him. He is not stupid, nor are we. I hate people who screw you over again and again and expect you to not get angry. I am done hearing that he is sorry, he can't be at this point and probably never was. If you can deal with that from him fine, I cannot.

[Guaranteed]

70. He is TRYING to remember. He's said "except Dennis" many, MANY times

He just can't remember to do it every time. Give him a break.

[plurality]

That or the truth just makes such as bad soundbite.

I mean "Only me and Dennis Kucinich and Al Sharpton opposed the war from the beginning!" doesn't sound anywhere near as convincing as "Only I opposed the war from the start!"

You know, if he actually told the truth, all those anti-war voters out there might actually think they had a choice.

[revcarol]

72. Bull roar.

Remember the NH flyer. And the other times he just doesn't "manage" to include DK.
ONCE, JUST ONCE, he included DK in his war statement, at ONE debate.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but dK voted against NCLB.

Dean LIES ON PURPOSE.

[Mairead]

77. He can't remember to tell the truth? The truth is an optional thing for

him, that he needs to remember to tell it?

Jeez!

[youngred]

80. if he cannot remember that

what else will he 'forget' while in prospective office?

[Terwilliger]

40. He was referring to the others in the race who might beat him

I'm sorry...Kucinich isn't one of them.

[goodhue]

44. gong

wrong answer
not accurate
reflects months old propaganda

[Terwilliger]

48. no goodhue...Im sorry

Dennis' best showing is 13%...he'll have 20-30 delegates...MAYBE

What does he do? Hold out for the Dems to get out of Iraq after Kerry takes office for his delegates? Oh thats right Kerry wnt care and he'll do what he wants.

[goodhue]

51. no 15.7% in ME

unless you have final figures?
http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/files/elections/2004/primaries/by_state/ME_Page.html?SITE=YAHOOELN&SECTION=POLITICS#TOP

[Terwilliger]

52. ooooo!!!! 2 more percent!!!

So what??

Whats he gonna do, goodhue? Stand up and make impassioned speeches about what he believes in? He's been doing that so far and people are still marginalizing and ignoring him.

What's he going to do? What's going to change?

WHATS THE POINT?!?!?

[goodhue]

53. 15% is threshold

that is the point
and its why we do not have final ME numbers over 24 hours later.
where is the outrage . . .

[revcarol]

56. From customwire, with 80% in,

delegates are 9 Kerry, 6 Dean & 5 Kucinich, but NO total, so no cigar yet.

[Terwilliger]

57. point is Kucinich will not win nor have any influence at the convention

thats the point

[goodhue]

58. point taken

but I disagree

[DemBones DemBones]

45. Makes no difference -- no matter how you spin it,

Dean is a liar. A deliberate liar because he knows not to do this in front of Dennis.

[Terwilliger]

49. All politicians are liars

But they're ignoring Dennis for a reason.

[mitchum]

43. More bullshit from the Hamlin roadshow

Howie does it again

[Hoppin_Mad]

47. In all seriousness you should address Blitzer

Dean was responding to a question that OMITTED Kucinich.

" BLITZER: Well, let's take a look at this American Research Poll that's come out in recent days, over the past couple days. In Wisconsin, Kerry's now at 41 percent; Clark's at 15; Edwards at 10. Dean is at 9 percent "

[MuseRider]

50. Sorry

Dean is supposed to be on the same side as the others and rather than distance himself by using the differences in his policies he does this. Sorry, Biltzer is not the problem. (he is a problem but not this one) IOW, instead of bolstering the party and separating himself in a way that would elevate himself he chooses to make the rest of the field look bad and attempts to elevate himself by convieniently forgetting that he is not the"only" anything.

[quaker bill]

60. From the voting it seems like he has lots of company

Isn't it time for Dennis to call it quits?

[revcarol]

63. $5.00 more for Dennis!!He's in it for the long haul.

And I thought Quakers were more supportive of the more peaceful candidates.Am I laboring under a delusion?

[LWolf]

83. I'm up to $75 in such a short time;

and my February budget is shot. It'll all have to go on the March contribution!

[Tinoire]

61. Once is an accident. Twice is negligence. Three times is criminal.

Every damn time I start warming up to Dean or feeling sorry for him, his arrogance kills it.

This is inexcusable.

I hope he remembers these snippets, these brochures, in the future- they may came back to haunt him.

Thanks Hopping Mad for keeping me from seeing totally red. You're a mensch and Dean could use some advice from you.

[mitchum]

62. If it ducks like a quack...

[Paulie]

64. Lets start a campaign to write Howards name as Dean**

Where ** = "Except Kucinich"

That way we won't get as upset when he once again, LIES about Dennis.

[stickdog]

66. Dean marginalizes Kucinich by not mentioning him as a major

candidate.

Meanwhile, Kucinich makes backroom deals with the DLC to torpedo the chances of ANY non-DLC candidate.

Sorry, but I'll live with Dean's insulting misdemeanors over Kucinich's DLC-helping felonies.

[Paulie]

68. Kucinich and the DLC??

At the Chicago announcement of his run, both Dennis and Studds Terkel make it quite clear what they thought of the DLC, and the crowd agreed quite LOUDLY!

How about learning a new trick? :mad:

[youngred]

73. That's such a bullshit lie

and I'm soooooo tired of it.

No matter how many times its explained that that was a ONE TIME DEAL with someone whom he shares a lot of similar views some people just don't get it. It's sad really

[_NorCal_D_]

74. What?

Meanwhile, Kucinich makes backroom deals with the DLC to torpedo the chances of ANY non-DLC candidate. :wtf:

So tell me, how are you going to prove this outrageous claim? :eyes:

[stickdog]

78. History proves it. Edwards = DLC favorite (along with Lieberman)

Edwards = DLC stalwart.

Deal with Edwards = Deal with the DLC.

There were only 4 candidates running that day. Kucinich made a deal with pro-war, pro-big money, DLC stalwart Edwards and came away with ZERO delegates for his trouble.

Meanwhile, two DLC candidates vaulted into the lead.

If you don't believe me, you can see this on the History Channel starting next year.

[youngred]

81. Incorrect

he got 2 delegates in Iowa and Edwards is not Pro-Big money.

Your assertions are ridiculous

[stickdog]

89. Link? Kucinich won 0.5 actual Dem convention delegates.

Which rounds down to ZERO.

Where did you come up with two?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

84. the "backroom" deal that was done in public

Amazing how far some will go to slander the only progressive in the race. I can imagine how painful it is when the former DLC centrist candidate that supposedly had so much support did so poorly when the actual voting occurred.

As I've said numerous times - that's what you get for compromising so *early* in the game.

[stickdog]

88. Dean is Dean.

Kucinich is the one who compromised himself by cutting deal with DLC -- before a single vote had been cast.

[JVS]

75. That's pretty much it.

[WarNoMore]

71. This *has* happened too many times,

by other candidates also--I don't think once an "oversight" is pointed out that it should continually happen again.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

79. That's Pitt's job. Not Deans.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

85. "First the TV ad, then a flyer, add in numerous times speaking

The facts are, unless you think Dean isn't so smart, that Dean KNOWS he is lying for personal gain.

The 'major' excuse holds NO water here, nor did it ever when pertaining to Dean's mistruths. Undecided voters don't see 'major' candidates, they see ALL candidates.

"All the other Democrats, including Senator Kerry, voted for the war"

[redqueen]

86. Is anyone really surprised?

I mean, really. This is not the first time, and it won't be the last.

Dean learned early how quickly his backers would switch to Kucinich given half a reason.

Dean's certainly not going to tisk giving them any new supporters any reason to think twice about supporting him, especially not now that Kucinich is placing in the top three.

All I have to say is GO KOOCH! :D

[lastliberalintexas]

87. I really don't understand the sniping

between the Kucinich and Dean camps. Yes, Dean should be better about remembering that Dennis also stood up to Shrub.

But good golly people, why allow this to drive a wedge between the 2 camps? I'm not saying that supporters of the 2 are interchangeable, but I would think that Dean, Kucinich, Sharpton and to an extent Clark supporters would have more in common than not.

Yes, there are some issues on which we disagree (personally, i don't like Kucinich and Sharpton's positions on guns)- but there are far more important and substantive issues on which we AGREE. I even have a couple of problems with things that Kucinich has done in this campaign, but that pales in comparison to the problems I have with the DNC/DLC! In fact, I think most (tho certainly not all) supporters of those candidates believe that one of the most important tasks facing the Dem party activists is to do something to diminish the power of the DLC.

We have far more in common than that which separates us. I'd love to see the anger on this thread redirected to McAulliffe and/or Shrub!