Dean Needs To Keep His Word on Feb. 17: For His Party & His People

[Raya]

Howard Dean’s future in the Democratic party is now on the line.

Last Thursday an e-mail under Dean's name was sent out pleading for $700,000 in campaign contributions by Sunday in order to keep his race alive.

"The entire race has come down to this," it said. "We must win Wisconsin. . . . Anything less will put us out of the race."
It continured, "all that you have worked for these past months is on the line on a single day in a single state."

Dean subsequently referred to this fund raising letter as a “brilliant ploy.” The ploy worked and raised more than $1 million for the Wisconsin Ad campaign.

Now it is up to the Governor to keep his word and win Wisconsin or end his campaign. It is time for the Governor to take a cue from the words of his major endorser, Vice President Al Gore, spoken even before the first vote was cast:

“It is about all of us and all of us need to get behind the strongest candidate. . .

Years ago, former president Ronald Reagan said in the Republican Party that there ought to be an 11th commandment, speak no ill of another Republican. We're Democrats and we may not find that kind of commandment as accessible, but to the extent that we can recognize the stakes in America today, I would urge all of the other candidates and campaigns to keep their eyes on the prize. . .

This nation cannot afford to have four more years of a Bush-Cheney administration. We can't afford to be divided among ourselves to the point that we lose sight of how important it is for America. What is going on in this Bush White House today is bad for our country. And it's slowly beginning to sink into more and more people out there. And we don't have the luxury of fighting among ourselves to the point where we seriously damage our ability to win on behalf of the American people this time around."


Governor Dean owes it to his supporters and owes it to his Party to keep his word on February 17th.

[dorktv]

1. He should let us decide like he did with the opting out.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bigtree]

5. It's okay to hold John Kerry to his every word and action, but . . .

Didn't Dr. Dean say:

"Anything less will put us out of the race"

[w4rma]

6. Maybe I have a problem with the tone. (n/t)

[Hoppin_Mad]

12. Parsing words does not win arguments

It was clarified the very next day that this should not be interperted as 'dropping out'

[bigtree]

13. And he then said that it was a brilliant ploy

[Hoppin_Mad]

22. Desperate attempts to get Deans fundraising, organization and supporters

is not becoming,

[bigtree]

37. Ah, then you see my words as a conspiracy.

Do you actually believe that I couldn't make folks cry by attacking Howard Dean's statement and positions at every opportunity. But I don't. I spend most of my time here brushing off the hysteria that some of John Kerry's detractors spread every day about this most reasonable man.

I don't see any value in a weakened Dr. Dean. If I was a supporter I would be more concerned that he doesn't slip into a chastened obscurity after he is through trashing the other candidates and Democrats he disagrees with as republicans and warmongers.

[Old and In the Way]

74. What you said....

:-)

[Edwards4President]

24. Another example of "what Dr. Dean REALLY meant?"

[LuminousX]

40. Just because you aren't going to win the race

doesn't mean you stop running.

[Guaranteed]

85. KERRY should bow out, for the good of the party and the country. nt

[Raya]

9. I am a former DK and Dean supporter and have 8 Dean friends who are

have been very devoted to his campaign up to this point. I just want us to all work together to take back our country.

Please re-read what Al Gore said. It is true.

[w4rma]

14. But who are you supporting, now? (n/t)

[Raya]

19. John F. Kerry, of course. He is our best candidate against Bush

[dorktv]

26. Kerry? Mr. Liberal? No we need a pragmatic guy like Dean.

[Hoppin_Mad]

27. That is SO sad - DK + Dean > Kerry based on electability -nt-

[dorktv]

30. to the question of electablity: 35% to win.

Dean at 35% when he signed the Civil Unions bill to go on to win another governor race.

[Old and In the Way]

76. Except DK + Dean can't be co-Presidents.

And I'm not sure you could make that case, even if it was a 3 man race.

[progressivebydesign]

49. John "F" Kerry?

Okay.. the not so subtle reference to the "F." in his name is killing me this week. He's a decent guy.. but he's NO JFK. I'm enjoying the new emphasis on the F. this week. Amusing.

[ibegurpard]

50. That's nothing new.

They've been playing that one up since day one.

[dorktv]

51. Well I would not want to be playing that up...We all know what

happened with the first JFK.

[Old and In the Way]

77. Correct.

While they were both wounded US Navy smallboat combat hero's and both were Massachussetts Congressmen, Kennedy wrote a book and had a much bigger and established political family to draw upon.

[mopinko]

107. do you know how disgusting this jfk thing is

i have enough things about kerry that make me want to puke. please do not try to associate him with the REAL jfk.

[shanti]

132. why don't you wait until dean calls it quits??

you aren't very loyal.

[BL_Zebub]

116. You'll have to excuse a Devil for questioning that statement.

See, the DK and Dean supporters have a great deal in commmon. They agree that the DLC corporatist establisment is the absolute wrong direction for the Demoncratic party to be going. So, as a long term observer of mortal habits, I find it hard to believe that anyone who truly believed in the message of either Dennis Kucinich or Howard Dean could switch to the DLC corporatist status quo candidate so quickly. If you did so after the convention, in the name of party unity, that would be one thing. But with most of the delegates yet unclaimed and the theoretical possibility of even Kucinich emerging the winner, it's hard to fathom why you would abandon your candidate so soon. But then, I've been the underdog for thousands of years now, so I know how it feels, I guess :evilfrown:

[lastknowngood]

3. You will pardon me if I don't take advise from people who

have been against Dean. We want him to go all the way to the convention now matter what. The DLC/DNC cabala needs a message sent to them, and if they don't like it we have ideas as to exactly what they can do with it.

[Hoppin_Mad]

4. Sorry so many people misinterpreted his message - They explained

the very NEXT day - that this did NOT mean he was dropping out.

All the candidates should stay in.

[Exgeneral]

7. Pardon me?

I read that letter from Roy Neel and nowhere does it state Gov. Dean will hang it up.Especially in Gov. Dean's words

What "word" is he supposed to keep?

[cthrumatrix]

8. his supporters want him to stay.... there is a great deal of energy in his

views and we want change.

[BuelahWitch]

29. That's right

We started three petitions BEGGING him to stay. And he listened to us!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. No he doesn't.

He's free to strategize on what will inspire his base and keep his campaign solvent no matter the tactic.

Stores that aren't really going out of business have clearance sales all the time.

Dean owes it to his supporters to give them his best shot whether competing campaigns like it or not.

[mitchum]

11. Why should he start being honest now?

He's not quitting. He loves the roar of the greasepaint and the smell of the crowd.

[lastknowngood]

15. are personal attacks on candidates allowed in this

area?

[Dookus]

18. Yes, they are

otherwise you'd hear nothing but crickets chirping in GD04 :)

[mitchum]

25. What do you think?

Or are you only selectively worrying about personal attacks?

Man, if you think that was a mitchum personal attack against Dean, you weren't around earlier.

[XanaDUer]

55. That was an extremely mild mitchumism...

;)

[Zomby Woof]

65. oo! a new word!

Mitchumismmitchumismmitchusim....

[charlie]

91. Nah, John Lennon coined it

Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism, Mitchumismmitchumismmitchusim....

[w4rma]

16. Kerry is going to need our help if, as appears likely, he is the nominee.

I suggest you keep that in mind before you smear, mitchum.

[mitchum]

32. Yes, I guess I should attend some of those strong second place...

meetups for grace and comportment instructions. So many of those supporters are the epitome of civility.

Bush or Kerry: parse it how you want, that's what it is going to come down to

[OutlawCorporatePolls]

17. he's in a strong second place..

why shouldnt places 3, 4, 5 or 6 quit first?

after this weekend, and three 2nd place finishes, it would be stupid not to try to be the anti-kerry.

[mitchum]

36. "strong secong place" just doesn't have the rousing quality...

of "You have the power" It now has the frequency, though...

[Edwards4President]

69. I wonder what the new battlecry will be after next week if Dean doesn't

pick up enough delegates to remain in "strong second place."

[WiseMen]

106. Doesn't matter. Dean appears to be breaking all the rules of Dem primaries

Now Trippi is letting out that Dean won't merge list with rest
of primary campaigners as is customary of Dem primary contenders.

[charlie]

128. Flatly dishonest

Trippi has offered his opinion that Dean shouldn't release his donors email list. You have no idea what Dean will do.

And there is no "customary" when it comes to email addresses. The problem of spam is magnitudes greater than oldstyle junkmail and people can easily be ticked if you share an address they've entrusted to you. It would probably be better for the party if Dean sent out entreaties to sign up with the nominee's campaign.

[ibegurpard]

21. No kidding!

Oh wait a minute... I thought you were talking about Kerry. Never mind.

[bigtree]

20. Not Wisconsin?

Before that his last stand was Washington. After Wisconsin, where does he think he will win? Where is his next defining contest? According to him. I don't follow his plans.

[lastknowngood]

23. Some of you Kerry guys sure can dish it out. Remember Dean

is 2nd and none is asking Clark/Edwards/Sharpton/DK to quit. Why dose the good doctor deserve this "special" treatment. Please let me know your opinions.

[Raya]

28. He gave his word to his supporter/donors, my friends

[Hoppin_Mad]

31. He NEVER said he would ! Go Dean ! On to Boston ! -nt-

[RetroLounge]

82. And as a Dean Supporter/Donor

I understood from the get-go what he meant. And hope he will stay in to the end.

If nothing else, at least as long as Dean is around, Kerry can pretend to have a spine.

[LuminousX]

33. My money. I should decide.

If I want Dean to continue... that's it, he's going to continue.

[WiseMen]

130. $2000 is max. That should not determine what is best for Party and Dean

[Hoppin_Mad]

34. Odd - I have a thread about this very topic >

Now locked, without even a post from the moderator indicating so.

Why oh why is the Dean campaign such a threat to a campaign 30 points ahead ?

These desperate attempts by Kerry supporters to quash democracy are appalling !

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=298929#299018

[DrFunkenstein]

42. That's The Point - No Threat of Winning, Just Tearing Down

It would be one thing if he were running a campaign based on his own vision of reform. It's another to run a campaign based on tearing down the other guy in your Party.

[ibegurpard]

45. Just borrowing a page from the Kerry campaign.

eom

[stickdog]

88. Come on. Without Dean, how would Kerry ever figure out

when it was safe to attack Bush?

[Nicholas_J]

92. The same way Dean did

by waiting until it was safe to do so...

After all, Dean supported the stance on unilateral attack of Iraq until after he actually attacked, and thne changed his stance when he saw that was the best position for him to take to gain supporters.

FTN - 09/29/02
WASHINGTON


DEAN: Sure, I think the Democrats have pushed him into that position and the Congress, and I think that's a good thing. And I think he is trying to do that. We still get these bellicose statements.

Look, it's very simple. Here's what we ought to have done. We should have gone to the U.N. Security Council. We should have asked for a resolution to allow the inspectors back in with no pre-conditions. And then we should have given them a deadline saying "If you don't do this, say, within 60 days, we will reserve our right as Americans to defend ourselves and we will go into Iraq."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/30/ftn/printable523726.shtml

Then again on February 20th:

"As I've said about eight times today," he says, annoyed -- that Saddam must be disarmed, but with a multilateral force under the auspices of the United Nations. If the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice.


http://www.howardsmusings.com/2003/02/20/salon_on_the_campaign_trail_with_the_unbush.html

Lets face it, Dean recommended attacking Iraq unilaterally if going to the U.N. wasnt effective within 2 months. He only decided to swithchis stance and started making the statements that he opposed Bush from the beginning/ And in a sense he isnt lying,. Once Bush began the war, Dean stopped supporting unilateral action and started opposing it.

[BL_Zebub]

122. If a "Democratic" candidate has the endorsement of FAUX News

Doesn't he deserve to be "torn down"?

[Raya]

35. This is a matter of Respecting Endorsers, Supporters who took his word

and care about taking back our country from Bush.

Please read what Al Gore said.

[Hoppin_Mad]

39. He NEVER said he would drop out - and he's NOT going to - Deal with it -nt

[mopinko]

109. and you are

speaking for them because.......
democracy is a little messy. what do you want to replace it with? rupert murdoch picks our candidate? let the voters decide.

[NashVegas]

38. I Don't Think it's the Business of Non-Dean Supporters to Decide His

Campaign.

No, I really do not.

[mitchum]

43. Apparently non-Dean supporters have been deciding his campaign

0 for 11

[quaker bill]

59. But some how he remains in second place

You guys are sounding a bit desperate.

[mitchum]

62. Not desperate...

just cruel

[Leilani]

83. I don't think it's the business of non-Dean supporters either

to decide what he should or should not do.

Or what his supporters should do or not do.

I don't believe we should all fall in line like wooden soldiers, & just wait for orders on high.

I think it's a shame that the primary process has become a runaway train, & we all have to get on board, or risk being run over.

The primaries have hurt Bush, & the longer it goes on, the better. Also if Kerry had really been challenged, it would have made him a better candidate for the GE. Now, we have months for the Bush campaign to do all their dirty tricks, & I fear what will happen.

[Sensitivity]

138. This is the Democratic Primary. It is the business of any democrat

[quaker bill]

41. His people asked him to keep running

Dean always said that he would listen to us. He is keeping his word by staying in the race.

I am sensing a bit of insecurity on your part.

Why concern yourself? Isn't your candidate the "electable" one?

[stickdog]

44. Why are Kerry supporters still so damned concerned about what Dean

does?

You've got the media, the Democratic party insiders, the pollsters AND the sheeple all in your pocket.

Why are you so damned concerned about Dean?

[mitchum]

46. Because I find him shrill and annoying

really nothing more than that

[dorktv]

47. Because once it becomes a two person race,

Kerry will get crushed by Dean. He knows this, his supporters know this and soon the people will know this.

[Edwards4President]

56. Do you really believe that the bulk of the support going to Edwards

and Clark would shift right over to Dean if they weren't in the race?

I think not.

[dorktv]

57. Not the people who work and volunteer for the campaign but

the other set of people who are just going to decide about five minutes before voting will like what they see about Dean. Most people do, at least that has been my experience.
The supporters are not really going to switch just like that.

[Edwards4President]

60. Past primaries do not bear this out

As evidenced in Iowa, NH, SC and Oklahoma, and other races, Dean does not bear well a second look. Voters who made up their minds at the last minute have tended to go with other candidates, not Dean.

In order to beat Kerry going head to head, Dean would have to attract a significant amount of support from Edwards and Clark supporters. So far, that does not appear to be likely.

[stickdog]

89. And Washington, Michigan, and Maine?

Or did you just forget this weekend for some reason. You know, the weekend in which Dean came in second three times after his obituary was gleefully read by the corporate media 100,000 times?

[WiseMen]

105. Please check the history of Dem primaries. No one has won as large

a percentage of consequtive contested primaries without consession
from the rest.

[stickdog]

139. Please check out the completely new, compressed primary calendar.

It's HISTORICALLY compressed. Wouldn't you agree?

[stickdog]

86. So what?

If this is really how you feel, why does anything Dean does concern you?

[Raya]

115. That's not the point. Dean made commitment to donors, endorsers.

[TheBigDemo]

48. This is to bad for Dean, now he will go down as a sore loser

I think He would be much better off going out with a respectful big band and thank you. Instead he is going to drag it out and cause people to unendorse him. That is too bad. Dean did a great deal for the party and deserves thanks. If the Dems win in 2004 a great of it will be owed to Dean and Joe Trippi. If Dean whines about leaving, well, he will gone down badly in history. To bad, but it is Dean's choice to make and he is the one that has to live with it.

James K.

[progressivebydesign]

53. Why would someone in a solid second place bow out?

Gee.. what kind of world would have had if you were advising Clinton during his first primary? I'd think this was a more convincing argument if it wasn't started, and supported by non-Dean supporters.

I got the email. It never said he was quitting.. it was asking for financial help for Wisconsin, because it was crucial to the movement of the campaign. He, himself, said in an interview that he never said he was dropping out.

Geez.. why is everyone so HOT to get Dean out of the way? Party unity? I don't think so. I think this strategy will come back to bite Kerry's people in the butt. The sooner this horse race is over, the sooner the democrats fall back into the woodwork in the media.. while Bush has months and months before the convention to work his "charm offensive" and manage the news. You should want your candidate to have a protracted primary season. Or else.. we'll be ignored.

I don't have to hate other candidates just to support mine. That's counterproductive to getting Bush out of office.

[no name no slogan]

94. Now is DEFINATELY not the time for Dean to quit

Dean still has delegates, and many committed supporters who will continue to work for him and fund his campaign.

I for one am happy to see him in the race. I like the fact that we have such a wide field of candidates this time around. I can't wait for Boston, to see them all up on stage in one giant show of unity, getting behind the eventual nominee-- WHOEVER THAT MAY BE.

Because then we can put a serious hurting on the Chimp-In-Chief.

[quaker bill]

63. Isn't that just what Kerry said to Al Gore?

I am pleased Dean is going to stick it out.

[Old and In the Way]

79. I donated to Dean early on. I appreciate the rhetorical bar that he

set. I understand why his supporters would be so loyal. And, if he's not the nominee, I'd hope he'd be an important player in the next Democratic administration.

I just hope neither Dean nor his supporters will their interests above the Party's, should he fail to be the nominee.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Walt Starr]

54. Dean never said he would get out of the race

And I'll support him so long as he's in the race.

[bobthedrummer]

58. Howard Dean was in Green Bay today-he isn't dropping out

if he fails to win Wisconsin.
That was what he said today to the press.
So this thread is now moot.

[milkyway]

61. Dean NEVER SAID he would drop out of the race if he loses Wisconsin...

I received and read that e-mail directly from Dean without having it first pass through the media misinformation filter. I did not in any way take it to me Dean would quit. I took it to mean that if he didn't win Wisconsin, he would not be a realistic contender for the nomination. Kucinich and Sharpton aren't contenders, either, but they're still running. There is a big difference between "will put us out of the race" and "I will drop out of the race." I took it to mean that if he can't win in the favorable state of Wisconsin, he can't win the nomination. But HE DID NOT SAY "therefore I will drop out of the race."

Granted it's ambiguous, but the media (including whore Jodi Wilgoren of the NYT who doesn't even try to hide her contempt for Dean anymore) are either too stupid or too eager to bury Dean to even acknowledge this interpretation of his statement. This to me is not parsing the statement--it's how I honestly read it originally.

[Anwen]

64. Come on, Raya

How many threads do we need to waste on this subject? Why are all of these threads urging Dean to drop out, and not Clark, Kucinich, Edwards and Sharpton? Aren't they also behind Kerry?

Dean NEVER said he was going to drop out of the race after Wisconsin. The media saw his "must win" Wisconsin email and spun that into another story.

It's absolutely revolting that people want to eliminate every other candidate besides Kerry -- after only a small percentage of voters have had a chance to speak. I personally don't think ANY of the candidates should drop out until EVERYONE has a chance to vote.

[creativelcro]

68. They are WAY more behind than Dean, delegate-wise...

[Anwen]

71. It's funny.

Why the urgency to get rid of Mr. Second Place?

Dean is the biggest threat to Kerry, that's why. :)

[creativelcro]

95. aha! Now I get it :)

[kaitykaity]

66. "Keep his word"? What, is Dean Bush now?

If Dean's support stays in the solid 30% range, that means he could get to the convention with just enough delegates to keep Kerry from getting the nomination straight-up.

After that, it's anybody's game.

John Kerry was a wimpy pink tutu before Howard Dean yanked the chain of the Washington insiders with a grassroots campaign that lit fire, passion, strength, and focus in outraged outsiders like me who didn't have a single voice in Washington speaking for us. The party owes the Doctor more than a kick to the curb, buh-bye.

Get used to us. We're not going anywhere. I take it as my personal task to kick the Kerry-ites in their complacency--they, after all, are supporting the "me-too" late-comer.

Geez.

[Raya]

78. Please look at the facts: Kerry has been fighting for us for 30 years.

He is not a newcomer to the progressive movement.

[milkyway]

90. But he stopped fighting when he decided to run for President...

Ever since, he's rolled over for the right. Kerry's last day as a liberal will be the day he wins the nomination (if he does). Kerry found it easy to be a liberal in Massachusetts. With his constituency now the entire country, Kerry will be a centrist, at best, and a weak one at that. Prepare to be very disappointed if he wins the Presidency.

[kaitykaity]

102. He sure as hell didn't fight for me.

He quaked in his loafers at the thought of calling out Bush when Dean called out Bush. Without Dean, we'd still be getting Bush-lite DLC/DNC centrists as our only choice.

I want a leader in the Oval Office, not a pink tutu like Kerry.

[creativelcro]

67. Ahahah... The frontrunner's xxxxxxxxs seem worried... Wonder why...

Guess: perhaps they are worried they cannot keep up the scam indefinitely ?

[mitchum]

73. Not worried...

just cruel

0 for 11

[KaraokeKarlton]

70. Dean's supporters want him to stay in

And frankly, to hell with the Democratic Party Leaders. The vast majority of Dean supporters couldn't care less what they want. This isn't the DLC and DNC's primary election...it belongs to the people. They can go blow it out their collective arseholes. If Dean isn't the nominee there will be many of his supporters who will be writing his name on the ballot anyhow. I will be, especially after knowing that something fishy is going on in Maine. I grew up in a very small town in Washington County. Many of the towns there weren't even allowed to caucus at all, and they are NOT happy. My home town (where I grew up) is one of them. The shit is hitting the fan in Maine, and I suspect there will be a lot of unpleasant things exposed.

[Edwards4President]

75. and Kucinich's, Sharpton's supporters want them to stay in

and CMB's, Gephardt's, Graham's and Lieberman's supporters wanted THEM to stay in.

There's more to doing what's best for the party and the country than just following what one's supporters want them to do - after all, candidates' hardcore supporters aren't always the best judges of what a candidate's wiser course of action.

[lurk_no_more]

72. Keep his word?

Surely you jest! Not as long a theres a dollar out there with his campaigns name on it.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

80. ...

[John_H]

81. C'mon. Who believed that e-mail? Dean's candidacy is based on

manipulating his supporters, many of whom, being new to politics, are easy marks.

First he tells them he's an outsider, not the corporate money raising consumate insider his record proves him to be. Then he tells them he's a liberal instead of the centrist his record proves him to be. Then he tells them his campaign is run by underpaid "kids" when he is actually making his insider campaign manager the richest political operative in history.

Then he tells them he's leaving....yawn.

[RetroLounge]

84. Just in case you forget who in second place

with 80% of the delegates still available...

DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN
DEAN :D DEAN :D DEAN

[Raya]

87. GORE NAILED IT. The RW will use the LEFT to destroy Kerry.

Al Gore statement needs to be repeated again and again. The Republicans destroyed Gore by using innuendgo regarding a host of "little" things which combined eroded his support. The worst part of it was that the used The Left as their tools and mouth piece so that
all their propaganda became very credible.

The same method is in the works against Kerry and it is reflected
on this board.

"We can't afford to be divided among ourselves to the point that we lose sight of how important it is for America. . .

And we don't have the luxury of fighting among ourselves to the point where we seriously damage our ability to win on behalf of the American people this time around."


Gore learned this through personal experience.

[candy331]

93. I hope Dean stays in all the way to the convention

The scene of this world is changing daily and who knows what may happen by then. There are no good little republicans in the Dean camp that follow step in line, we have a mind to think for ourselves and will continue to do so. Why worry about Dean? Has not the party with the medias help SELECTED Kerry or does anyone think that Dean's supporters will just shuffle over to Mr. Kerry's side. I don't think so.

[creativelcro]

96. The only dividers on this board are those individuals who

keep trying to push Kerry down everybody else's throats. Well, guess what? You have to convince us, and it's not working. And the more you do it the more people become sick of it.

[ShadowCabinet]

98. Where did all the Kerry supporter suddenly materialize from?

Going into Dec. and early Jan., the boards were ripe with in-fighting between the Clark and Dean camps. Suddenly, after NH - all these Kerry supporters appeared drumming the beat on how Dean needed to drop out now "for the good of the party".

Forgive me, but my state has yet to vote and I'll decide who I'm voting for. Not based on who the media tells me is front runner.

You know, the Dean folks got bashed pretty good for proposing that after he would win in Iowa and NH it would be a run of the table to win the nomination. Why have the tables now turned and everyone is supposed to let Kerry run the table? Why not give the rest of us a chance to have our vote count?

[kaitykaity]

99. Yeah, I really respond well when told I'm a political neophyte,

I'm being manipulated, and I'm too stupid to know better.

Oh, and cruelty really makes me want to change my mind.

If the Kerry supporters in this thread thought they could get me to come over to their side by using the above tactics, I guess they are more (fill in the blank, whatever) than even the dullest Bush supporter.

GO DEAN!!!!

[charlie]

97. You've got cheek

Calling for Dean and his backers to take a hike, then lecturing everybody about fractiousness. For the umpteenth time, we are in the primaries. Last man standing wins. Gore said squat about falling in behind the frontrunner, he's talking about supporting the nominee. You know that. And you know that Gore was harmed far more by a corporate-owned media interested in boosting tawdry spectacle over substance than anything the marginalized "Left" did.

[WiseMen]

100. Sorry Folks. Al Gore is Right. It's not Bush who is Destroying Our Chance

It is the horrible public spectacle of bickering and the politics
of personal destruction that deminishes our leaders.

Who wants to put themselves forward as the Democratic nominee
under these conditions.

[w4rma]

111. yup.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=302068&mesg_id=302068

[eyeswideopened]

101. He never promised to drop out

He said that his campaign would be in trouble if he did not win in Wisconsin. That's what the media gleafully broadcast.

[Sensitivity]

104. No, No. He said it was OVER if we couldn't win Wisconsin. Hey we used to

be way ahead there. Certainly compared with WA TN CA NY etc.

[Sensitivity]

103. Doesn't matter what Dean says. My group is going to decide what to

to do next after Wisconsin. Maybe we will convert to a Kerry meetup.

[Mass_Liberal]

108. I don't think he owes it to us

In my opinion its a stupid idea to drop out after Wisconsin. We never had particularly strong hopes for Wisconsin. I'd rather he stayed in it and used my money to take a shot at NY or California.

[redqueen]

110. He owes it to his party and his supporters to stay IN the race.

Period.

[WiseMen]

113. I think the Fundraising "Ploy" was a mistake. Raises ethical questions

[LuminousX]

117. Raises questions to who? Not to his supporters, only to those who like to

dump on him.

I think Dean has become some DUer's Clenis.

[Spirochete]

135. Would that be a Deanis?

[redqueen]

121. Not arguing that

But it's really not rocket science to figure out what his supporters want him to do. They are the people he owes his allegiance to, not Kerry's supporters.

[CWebster]

112. My inclination is to think that Kerry folks aren't in the position

to determine what Dean supporters want...only what Kerry supporters want.

[Raya]

114. I am a democrat who wants to get my country Back. Honesty is REQUIRED

in political fundrasing. It is not an option.

[CWebster]

118. your not exactly in the ideal position to be spouting about

clean elections.

[Raya]

119. Two Issues of Honesty: Flip-flop looks bad. Fundraising looks dishonest

[CWebster]

120. Why should I care what it looks like to you?

You are going to look for any opportunity to spin it. you have an obvious agenda. Think I'll go send Dean another couple of bucks.

[Raya]

123. Turn on you radio or TV. I can't say here how it look to pundits & public

[CWebster]

125. you mean the ones in Kerry's pocket?

or the ones in Smirky's pocket...

Speaking of honesty.

[BL_Zebub]

124. If Honesty is required, then perhaps you should question your candidate

Ask him why he's taking money from FAUX News.

[MoonAndSun]

126. I agree, Governor Dean owes it to his supporters and the country

to keep fighting the good fight all the way to the convention.

Your concern for all of us Dean supporters is duly noted.

[Nicholas_J]

127. Let him stay in...

Every time Dean is seen as saying one thing, and doing another, it costs him support. It is the prime reason he lost in Iowa and N.H.

Gephardts pointing out Deans past actions as compared to his campaigntalk killed Gephardt(Iowans didnt like the negative campaigning) but it cost Dean big in credibility, and in the makes him appear to be a person who cnnot firmly make a decision and keep to it. It will cost him even more if he stays in after saying he would get out. Dean has continually made wrong moves. This will be his worse.

[WiseMen]

129. I Heard Dean's Major Endorsers will be talking to him about flip-flop

issue. It is a shame that Dean's thousands of devoted followers really
don't have much say. Just as with the exit of Trippi.

[corporatewhore]

131. you quote al gore where was kerrys strength when it came time to vote on

he patriot act?

[slinkerwink]

133. nope, Dean's in it all the way to the convention

[Freddie Stubbs]

141. He has said that he would not continue after another candidate

had won enough delegates to win the nomination.

[Donkeyboy75]

134. This has been repeated ad nauseum, but...

Just because one is out of the race does not mean that one can't still campaign and raise issues that are important to the candidate and his/her supporters!!!!!!

I'm so sick of people trying to say that Dean "lied" again. :mad: Show me where he said he would drop out. In those words. Can't? Didn't think so.

[Padraig18]

136. No!

It's OUR business what he does, and NO ONE ELSE'S!

[saracat]

137. Dean's Decision

It is the business of all the Democrats what decision any of the candidates make as it effects the entire Party. Unless of course Dean is no longer a Democrat. All Democrats have the right to vote and make their decision. And that is just what they are doing.

[lojasmo]

140. You're (nearly) right

He needs to keep his WORD When he said he would "stay in the race until I can no longer possibly win"

This argument about Wisconsin is a straw man. The Wisconsin letter was a FUND RAISING TACTIC only. If one had ACTUALLY read the entire letter, one would understand that.

A one candidate primary is NOT good and NOT fun. Relax, and let the voters decide. Americans may be a bunch of morons, but that's just how the system works.

Besides, the race has now changed considerably with the loss of Wes Clark from the primary race.

[WiseMen]

142. Dean Supporters Need To Reject His Anger towards Other Dems

[WiseMen]

143. Dean Should Drop and Endorse Edwards before he has to Endorse Kerry

That would be easy and honorable retreat.

[Padraig18]

144. Let it GO!

Howard will do what he wants, when he wants! PLEASE, quit kicking up these moldy, old posts! :grr: