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[Sam Lowry]

1. I agree, but

that won't happen until after the nomination is clinched. Until then, expect rancor. Which is perfectly natural, don't let it get you down.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. Nah let's just write off the whole fucking election. We have two choices.

Totalitarian rule on the right or totalitarian rule on the left. Choose your new master. The bed is made.

[The Magistrate]

4. Well, Then, Ma'am

A round of totalitarian rule from the left for everybody in the house, straight up....

"There will be a holiday in our street soon."

[aldian159]

32. You picking up the tab, friend?

I'll tip the bar if you do...

[clarknyc]

3. Then stop creating devisive threads. Please.

[AnnitaR]

6. LOL! good one! Needed that tonight! n/t

:toast:

[Union Thug]

5. We need to

fight with the same aggressive meanness that the repukes use to smear our contenders. I'm not about fair play with these bastards anymore. To me, it's a no holds barred, anything goes fist fight.

[rumguy]

7. I will never forgive you PeteNYC

[DannyRed]

8. TOOOOOOOO

%&$'#(($%&$((#

LATE !

Many lurk, as I have been for the last few months.

We see.

We watch.

We understand what you are doing, and why.

Maybe that quote from Norquist is EXACTLY why we did not sign onto the Kerry bandwagon....

And maybe your plaintive cry for us to love you now is a bit ridiculous in the face of the concerted, continuous, comprehensive TRASHING of other candidates engaged in by SOME supporters of ANOTHER Candidate.

(Let's see how long it takes for me to get a nastygram from the moderators THIS time....)

[madrchsod]

9. norquist

the man who intends to put a memorial in every town in america to his hero- ronald reagan.a friend of his tried to pull a major scam on the government and the citizens of my town. good republicans,they`d steal pennies from a dead man`s eyes...

[Eloriel]

10. Oh, please, Pete

It's way too late for that.

We get insulted six ways to Sunday 6-1/2 days of the week, then you come along and try to kiss up to us. I don't care what your friggin' reason for it is -- it's not going to work. Not with me, not with a lot of other people.

Frankly, I think Norquist has a point. So if you're worried about that point, PICK ANOTHER CANDIDATE.

And AFAIC, Norquist's smugness is easily matched by Kerry's.

Besides, I'm too busy fighting the bloodsuckers in my own party to have any time or energy left over for your tilting at windmills, trying to overcome the patently obvious.

(Psssst: Here's a clue for those who want to "make friends" and suddenly "be partners" to serve the interest of their candidate: when you can stop patronizing us -- at those times when you aren't treating us abusively, of course -- you MIGHT get our ear. But for a very good many of us, NOT if the candidate in question is Kerry. That battle's been permanently lost.)

[Old and In the Way]

29. Here, can I offer some Kleenex?

Life is too short to hate so much...we really aren't the enemy.

[KoKo]

37. OAITW, unfortunately it's comments like this about "kleenex" which

make the problem worse. Why was it necessary for you to say that? Why was it necessary to assume you know what another Democrat here really feels? And why not just keep it to your self. Isn't Pete's post supposedly about unity?

[seaglass]

39. on second thought...deleted n/t

[MaddogTerp]

43. You just don't get it, do you?

take the kleenex and shove it up your....

it's exactly that kind of comment that make me certain that I could *never never never*

NEVER

support Kerry.

I'd rather support Bushie and get stabbed in the chest than support Kerry and get continuously stabbed in the back by his SHEEPLE.

If your not the enemy then stop being so GD patronizing. From Norquist and the repukes, its' to be expected, but not from my own GD party!

[Iverson]

47. hang on

If you can sort out the inappropriateness of the comment, then you can also sort out the differences between a candidate and supporters.

[vision]

11. I have lived in Republican areas most of my life

I grew up in KS and now live in rural MO so I think that the "Liberal" card will be played over and over here at least. This will impact on many.

As Dean said about "God, guns, and religion" or some such it does have an impact in the areas I have lived in. I don't know what it is like to live in a Liberal area all I know is conservative so I know many of the things that the Repubs will push. In those areas Kerry will be protrayed as weak. It doesn't matter if he is or not he will be hammered this way.

[Name removed]

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[DannyRed]

13. No, Pete

What you gather is not that you had no right to support John Kerry, although you certainly would love to put those words in our mouths...

What we are telling you is that your right to support John Kerry does not include a "get out of jail free" card. You are being held accountable for your actions and words.

Those actions and words reflected very badly on you and on your candidate of choice.

Those actions and words made it nearly impossible for you to attempt to reach out to people...no one believes it is genuine, many are extremely upset.

TOOOOOOO LATE.

Learn that lesson.

Remember it next time.

[Name removed]

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[NashVegas]

41. Here's a Few

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=919792

"Dean supporters, honest question: Do you sometimes have doubts"

By the date of this post, it was well past the point where anyone expressing postives about Dean would get jumped on and attacked, and any Dean supporter who would express doubts would be siezed on as proof positive his candidacy would go nowhere.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=126670

A fun little poll.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=127715

An attempt to pry anti-war votes out of Dean's camp.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=837612

That's you having a fit over negative posts about Kerry. Pot, kettle, mon chere?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=723726

Dean = McGovern

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=573759

Dean = unelectable.

====

In all of these and many others, you pleasantly went about trying to dig a DU grave for this candidate. The tone was different from most Dean-bashers, but the purpose was the same.

People who are active campaigners have a vested interest in disuading people to vote away from one candidate to another of the campaigner's choosing. IMO, pretty much everyone who played an active part in such tactics, regardless of whom the candidate is, owes a huge apology to Skinner, Elad, and all other DUers for turning candidate discussion into nothing more than a series of pissing matches.

The difference between candidate discussion on DU and the other two most well-known liberal boards is night and day. And that's a tremendously sad statement to have to make for someone who's been here since the spring of 2001.

[Name removed]

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[dkf]

34. haha "get out of jail" card.

Yup.

I gotta say though that I'm not so po'd at you Pete as I am with your candidate.

Frankly, he stepped beyond the pale and I am having a very very hard time even contemplating voting for him.

But I am sure I am no loss to anyone.

Too bad Kerry won't get any of my $ though. I will be maxing for my guy and I am fully prepared to max for the general. Of course thats only if my guy gets in. Your guy gets nothing from me, maybe not even my vote.

[rumguy]

14. you need to apologize to all of us....

what has happened is beyond the pale and unspeakable...

[Name removed]

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[rumguy]

19. there can be no excuses

[rumguy]

26. for the record, I am kidding ya!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. I'm still trying to figure out what YOU did

as one of the most civil posters on this board to deserve this venom other than support the guy that is winning thus far.

That's right. Kerry's winning. He STOLE that idea from another candidate who first invented winning.

Sorry I can't be as nice as you about it Pete, but being called a war apologist by people who supported someone else has worked my last nerve.

[Name removed]

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[Old and In the Way]

30. Me too, I certainly don't understand the animosity.

Frustration, yes...animosity, no.

[Name removed]

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[Eloriel]

16. GREAT job at inflating the discussion out of all proportion

No, Pete. You have every right to do both.

We're just giving you a little feedback based on our overall experiences here at DU. Take it for what it's worth. My guess is -- probably not worth much to you.

[politick]

20. can someone fill me in?

honestly? I guess I've been out of the loop for a while. Though I can understand hard feeling b/t both camps (I'm a dean man, btw) what is the main fissure b/t Pete and the other Deanies? Y'all seem prettyserious, as if this actually MEANT something...

[Name removed]

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[politick]

24. But I still don't understand

quite what's going on.

[molly]

48. That was a great endorsement!

:yourock:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

23. You are wasting your time.

Put that good energy out in the real world and campaign there, keep posting the great threads and column.

But you are trying to make peace with people who are spitting in your face.


They are such a minuscule number of malcontents that it is just not worth the energy that could be better spent on more productive outlets. And those who are open-minded and reasonable enough to be receptive to your message will probably come to the same conclusions on their own.

[nightperson]

35. Yep.

Double yep.

[oasis]

25. Count me in.

[woofless]

27. I was all prepared to post "I'm with ya Pete"

and decided to read all the posts first. I am still with ya Pete and have been all along. I am baffled by all the vitriol, and dismayed as well. To Hell with all this. I will surely be glad when the nomination is set and we can concentrate on the prize. We are all in this to get * out. I have been working against Repub. presidential candidates for more than 30 years and have seen my share of crap, but some of the things I see posted here take the cake. Grow the F--K up.

[NV1962]

28. PeteNYC I'm sorry, but...

"We" don't "need each other."

What "we" do is contemplate and discuss things conducive to realizing "our" progressive ideas and convictions.

That may very well entail a conflict of interests, and an opposite take on what is deemed an "acceptable" policy (or political proposition.)

I don't see harm at all in discussing third party branch-outs.

Unless I'm mistaken, there's no obligation of participants on DU towards the Democratic party specifically, nor to the Democratic Party's nominee.

I can understand appeals to apply restraint while elaborating discussion on such third-party branch-outs, but I don't think there's a "need" to justify expectations of a self-imposed party discipline among participants of a forum created, as I understand it, to sharpen and enrich our free and progressive minds.

You'd have a point if, say, the following three conditions were met: Zell Miller is "threatening" to create a third party, and a sizable number of participants here intimated the intent of voting for said loser, and said members of DU hold a bizarro mind-control influence over a sizable portion of voters out there.

I think you get my point: none of the present Democratic contenders for the Presidency pass muster on the first criterium, and the third is... well, not realistic either.

Respectfully, I decline to accept your premise.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

31. Look let's be clear. We need each other like we need hemorrhoids.

This site was here in October during a critical election in California. The place was a mad house with many people claiming Gray Davis was "Bush - Lite" and a Republican.

IT wasn't until the last days of the recall campaign that any stand was taken in the matter after there had been no less than a few hundred threads criticizing Davis, propping up Cruz Bustamante (who ran a pitiful campaign), and hundreds of posts suporting the Green candidate.

There were rumors and innuendo hurled at Davis, while all calls to actually address his policies and accomplishments were summarily dismissed.

One thing I learned. In matters where success is CRITICAL, the last thing you need is DU.

It's a great site for politcal venting and elementary bantering. It might even be a great site for news and commiserating.

But if you really want to win a campaign, this site is antithetical to that mission.

[aldian159]

33. Yeah

that sounds pretty close to the truth. Thank God I took a hiatus all october, based on the sounds of it.

[Iverson]

36. PeteNYC, you are right. You're also wrong.

We need each other in the sense that those who participate in DU need some feeling of community or group affiliation. Especially for most participants on the left, that sense of community won't extend very far in our daily lives if politics and civil society get taken into account. We know that we're a minority in most communities (and even here on DU, I've had it pointed out to me hundreds of times that my opinions are in the minority), and there's a comfort in finding some kind of cohort.

Besides, here we are, so we must be getting something out of it.

However, framing this message in terms of a candidate is both wrong and counterproductive. While phrased in a friendly way, your point appears politically opportunistic and even reveals a hierarchy that teaches a lesson other than the one you intend. Speaking as someone who does wish to talk about third parties and how our democracy needs them, I see that your construction places me outside of "friends and partners."

We have political parties if all we need out of each other is simple partisanship. Or was that the idea?

[KoKo]

40. Nicely said Iverson.....I agree......and with some of NSMA's thoughts. n/t

[creativelcro]

38. Ohhhh, I wove you all.... Sniff Sniff

[molly]

45. Boy, oh boy - some are just sore losers!

the rest of us want our country back!

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[Name removed]

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[creativelcro]

49. We all want our country back. That is why we'll stick with Dean.

Nothing can change that. Definitely NOT bossing people around.