"Kerry Predicts GOP Wedge Issue"

[Feanorcurufinwe]

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry told a crowd of Maine supporters on Thursday that he would fight Republican attacks that attempted seeking to tie him with the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court legalizing gay marriage. Ssked whether he supports the rights of gay couples to marry, Kerry told reporters that if Republicans "want to turn this into some wedge sort of issue and distort my position, I will fight back very clearly."

"I support equal rights, the right of people to have civil unions, to have partner rights. I do not support marriage" for gays and lesbians, he said. Asked if he would support a state constitutional amendment barring gay and lesbian marriages, Kerry didn't rule out the possibility. "I'll have to see what language there is," he said.

<snip>

Kerry aides say he has been very clear about not supporting gay marriage and about supporting civil unions. They say he can't address hypothetical constitutional amendments. Kerry told reporters he had the same position as Dick Cheney's on the issue, that essentially it was a matter for the states to decide. (Cheney has since retreated from that stance.)

"They ought to talk to Dick Cheney, their own vice president, before they start playing games with this and we'll find out just how political and how craven they are," Kerry said. Mainers at the event said Kerry's message on jobs and foreign policy would trump any campaign talk about gay marriage. "They're going to attack him any way they can," said supporter Sarah McCleary, 42. "I don't think it's going to be a problem for him."

http://www.datalounge.com/datalounge/news/record.html?record=21195

[MercutioATC]

1. How perceptive! Wasn't this recognized as a "wedge" issue a long time ago

???

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. Well, it seems like many folks don't realize that they are

acting as the wedge. Or in other words, those liberals who are willing to use this issue to divide Democrats are tools of the right wing.

[pezcore64]

49. yeah

cause god knows we arent aloud to have our own opinion on things! we'd be helping the right! oh no!

and dont eat chicken! right wingers LOVE chicken! dont let them trick you! eat cow!!

hahaha

[Feanorcurufinwe]

50. yeah

You are allowed to have any opinion you want. You are allowed to take any action you want.

And if those actions help the Republicans instead of the Democrats -- that's allowed too.

[Sam Lowry]

2. Kerry may well

have fucked himself on this issue. Hah, take that, John Kerry.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

8. RIP Sam Lowry

[NewYorkerfromMass]

3. Siding with Cheney was the perfect foil

for that matter they should get Dick Gephardt up there with his daughter to dispatch this issue from the debate.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

46. I think it was a reminder to parents across America

many of whom, just like Cheney, have gay children.

[oasis]

4. Kerry knows how to navigate through a political minefield. Cultural

conservatives will be shadow boxing in the dark.

[eileen_d]

6. Ah, so it's the STATE amendment he was referring to

Funny how that fact never made it into the DU flamewars

[Feanorcurufinwe]

7. Yes I thought that was an important fact to highlight.

[redqueen]

9. Savvy

I hope he can keep this minefield navigation working for him after the s really hits the fan in the GE.

[nancyharris]

10. If it is a wedge issue

It is because he has taken a position that is contrary to progressive Democrats that wholeheartedly support gay marriage.
BTW- this is not the only position he has taken contrary to progressive Democrats.

[corporatewhore]

13. ditto

[Feanorcurufinwe]

14. Candidate positions.

GAY RIGHTS: Do you think gay couples should have the right to enter civil unions that would qualify them for the usual federal benefits of marriage, such as Social Security survivor payments?

Howard Dean: "As governor of Vermont, I was proud to sign the first law in the country granting same-gender couples the right to enter into civil unions. This law guarantees lesbian and gay couples the same basic legal rights that married couples enjoy: the right to inherit property, obtain child custody, visit a partner in the hospital, and control a partner's affairs upon death. As president, I will work to provide equal rights under federal law."

Sen. John Edwards: "I believe in the equal dignity of all Americans and support partnership benefits for gays and lesbians in long-term relationships. States should be free to decide if they want to create civil unions with benefits akin to marriage. If states establish these civil unions, then the federal government should respect their decision and offer benefits along these lines."

Sen. John Kerry: "I strongly support civil unions. I believe same-sex couples should be granted full and equal protection under the law, including access to health insurance, family medical leave, bereavement leave, hospital visitation, survivor benefits, and other basic legal protections that all families deserve. I have always believed in extending equal protections and equal rights to all Americans without regard to race, religion, creed, or sexual orientation."

Rep. Dennis Kucinich: "I endorse a comprehensive nondiscrimination policy, including nondiscrimination based on gender identity. My overriding philosophy is that same-sex couples and opposite-sex couples should be equal in the eyes of the law, including in marriage. All benefits and legal entitlements available to heterosexuals should be available to gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered Americans, including equal treatment under Social Security survivor benefits, spousal benefits, and adoption rights. I support domestic partner benefits for same-sex partners of employees, such as health insurance coverage and hospital visitation rights."

Al Sharpton: "Unequivocally, I think they should have the right. I think it's a human right. Unless people are prepared to say, 'You're not human beings,' they should be afforded what any other human being should be afforded. That's like you asking, 'Do I think blacks or Latinos or other members of the human family should have the right?"'
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/01/27/politics1500EST0695.DTL

Looks to me that this wedge is most naturally inserted between Sharpton, Kucinich and Dean, Kerry, Edwards.

For anyone that wishes to further divide Democrats, go for it, but I think we will be able to unite despite this desperate right wing effort.

[nancyharris]

19. An astoundingly inept question

<”Do you think gay couples should have the right to enter civil unions that would qualify them for the usual federal benefits of marriage, such as Social Security survivor payments?”>

The fact is (and all of the candidates KNOW this) civil unions DO NOT qualify them for “the usual federal benefits of marriage”.

To say you support this, is to say you support “peace in the world” or prosperity for all”. It has no meaning or depth – it is an empty platitude. They are saying that they support something that doesn’t exist.

If they indeed support this, then why don’t they support gay marriage which DOES qualify gays and lesbians “the usual federal benefits of marriage”.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

20. This post is a perfect example of the wedge.

Attempts to divide Democrats because of an issue on which we have such a clear contrast with the Republicans are misguided.

[nancyharris]

23. I suggest to you

that providing equal rights for gay and lesbian marriage is not a fringe issue with Democratic voters. Like civil rights, it is a core issue that Senator Kerry had best not ignore.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

24. I suggest to you

that you re-read post #14, compare our candidates to Bush, support your chosen candidate for the nomination, and in the general election, support the candidate that comes closest to your position on this issue.

[nancyharris]

26. I fully intend to

But in the meantime, I will, like many here, continue to comment on issues that I feel are important to me and the Democratic Party.

Last I checked we have not yet finalized this nomination. Until we do, those candidates that do not support gay marriage can (and should) accept the fact that some Democrats are going to disagree with their view on this issue.

Surely you are not suggesting that those that disagree with Senator Kerry's lack of support for gay marriage keep their mouth shut.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

27. Why did you find it necessary

to ask if I was suggesting things that I didn't say?

I am suggesting what I said. Not anything else.

[nancyharris]

35. I did not suggest

That you were saying something you “did not say” In fact, I quite clearly said that you were “surly not” suggesting.

Senator Kerry has called this a “GOP wedge issue”. I have attempted to point out that there are many Democrats that disagree with Senator Kerry’s position on gay marriage. For instance Congressman Kucinich supports gay marriage. This is one of many differences between the 2 candidates. I have also tried to point out that I expect that Congressman Kucinich and his supporters will continue to make that distinction between the candidates and continue to criticize Senator Kerry for his lack of courage and his failure to support gay marriage.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

37. You said:

"Surely you are not suggesting that those that disagree with Senator Kerry's lack of support for gay marriage keep their mouth shut."

I responded by saying that I meant what I said, and not anything else.

What I said was:

"I suggest to you that you re-read post #14, compare our candidates to Bush, support your chosen candidate for the nomination, and in the general election, support the candidate that comes closest to your position on this issue."


and that's what I meant.

[nancyharris]

38. And of course

I answered that by saying that “I intend to”.

And in examining the very post you directed me to, I see that Senator Kerry has taken a position in opposition to gay marriage. This, as I said, is much different than Congressman Kucinich who has the courage and the determination to stand up to those that would deny equality based on sexual preference and support the concept of gay marriage.

Your suggestion that I “support the candidate that comes closest to my position on this issue” is well-taken. I will indeed do just that. However I also believe the Democratic nominee should be someone whose position I feel will protect and defend the rights of gays and lesbians to enter into state certified marriage contracts with exactly the same benefits as do heterosexual couples.

The best candidate to offer this protection is Dennis Kucinich and I urge all Democrats to consider his position on gay marriage in their decision on who to vote for in this primary.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

39. Personally, I agree with DK on this issue.

But it is only one of many factors that go into deciding who to support for me.

On the overwhelming majority of issues, not only do I think Kerry is in the right, but I think he is the right person to carry the fight.

[nancyharris]

40. It is certainly not the only issue for me as well

There are many other issues, most of which I have to admit are in opposition to Senator Kerry's positions.

I voted for Senator Kerry in both of his last elections for MA Senator. He is a good man but I think lacks the courage and spirit to fight the battles against discrimination on the national and international level. He seems to have no conviction, other than winning another election. When I weigh all of the issues, I can’t help but find Dennis Kucinich as a better representative of my views and certainly a better defender of justice.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

41. While I disagree with you about Senator Kerry

I have the feeling that in reality, you and I agree about a lot more things than we disagree about.

[Terwilliger]

11. this is unacceptable

I don't care if he doesn't favor gay marriage, but if he favors EVEN CONSIDERING an amendment to keep gay marriage illegal, and I'll never vote for the guy or the Democreatic party ever again.

[Terwilliger]

12. is this accurate?

"I support equal rights, the right of people to have civil unions, to have partner rights. I do not support marriage" for gays and lesbians, he said.

Is there a reason that the quote ends after `marriage'? What was actually said?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

15. Yes, it is unacceptable

to allow the Right Wing to use us as tools to divide the Democratic party.

[Guaranteed]

18. HOW ABOUT WE JUST DO THE RIGHT THING?? NT

[Feanorcurufinwe]

21. As in, allow the Right Wing to use us as tools to help Bush?

:eyes:

[rucky]

16. If he knows it's a wedge issue, then why is he falling into the trap?

to: Democrats
from: rucky
re: Wedge Issues

how's straddling the fence been working out for us?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. Those Democrats who attack Kerry over this are the ones falling for it.

:eyes:

[rucky]

22. abandon your base to appease the opposition

and we're all supposed to go along with that?

If Kerry wants to get out of the box, all he has to do is be on the right side of the issue & dismiss the debate as a silly wedge issue (yes, you can do both). If you answer the question definitively the first time, nobody will keep pressing you for an answer (keeping it in the news) & the issue will live & die on it's own (lack of) merit.

What chaps my butt is that Kerry offered his commentary on the Mass Supreme Court unsolicited on the day of the decision. That legitamizes the issue, don't it? So now we've moved to the stage of preemptive appeasment :eyes: Even if it's true because we saw it coming a mile away, Kerry's already lost the "wedge issue" arguement by bringing it up first.

Ideal answer: "If the GOP insists on putting gays into a position where they're fighting for their rights, then I'll have to take their side - regardless of my personal views. Because that's what Democrats do - fight for the minority, fight for equal rights & fight against discrimination."

[Feanorcurufinwe]

25. Your characterization is completely false.

I respect your support of DK, and I encourage you to support him to the best of your ability. When it comes time for the general election, I encourage you to compare our candidate to George Bush and support the candidate that you believe will be most likely to do the right thing on this issue.

[rucky]

30. count on it as a given

:)

until then...

:hippie:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

34. I can't wait for 1/20/2005

:grouphug:

[killbotfactory]

28. Kerry is as sharp as a tack

I never would have thought the GOP would try to use this as a wedge issue.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. How sharp are those Democrats who are doing the RW's work for them?

[killbotfactory]

32. If Kerry can't take the heat

Don't blame people who were against his nomination.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

33. Kerry can take it.

He's not the candidate whose campaign has gone down in flames because people don't trust him to be President.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

42. Premature.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

43. Wishful thinking won't make the GOP attacks on Kerry work.

I am absolutely positive that you only want Kerry to stumble so that a different candidate can win the nomination.

However, Kerry has been dealing with attacks from the RW since he was put on Nixon's enemies list. It certainly is not premature to say 'Kerry can take the heat'.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

44. "I am absolutely

positive that you only want Kerry to stumble so that a different candidate can win the nomination."

You are 100% correct. For benevolent reasons, I assure you.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

48. The thing is

it won't happen.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

45. He's always one step ahead of everybody else.

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[Mass_Liberal]

36. Kerry's right

it will be a GOP wedge issue. Which saddens me, because once again we will abandon our beliefs. Shit.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

47. We can meet the challenge

we can stay united and focus on our similarities -- that Democrats truly do stand for equal rights for all and always have -- rather than allowing them to divide us -- if we keep our heads.