Something we are all going to have to accept:

[Padraig18]

None of our 9 candidates--- not one--- is the Second Coming of the Messiah; they are all 9 very much human, with all the good AND bad qualities that implies. We all support who we support for equally-legitimate yet partially-subjective and partly-logical reasons, as do most of the electorate; that does not mean that others who support someone other than our candidate are wrong, it simply means that they aren't us, you see?

The fact of the matter is this: only one candidate will secure the nomination, so the odds are against every candidate, theoretically. We need to wake up and start seeing the big picture, folks--- every candidate running for our party's nomination is more morally, intellectually and tempermentally fit to be President than is the Unelected Fraud.

/rant off

Let the flame wars begin...

[jmaier]

1. Agreed

I suspect most of us who have a candidate in mind are unlikely to be swayed positively or negatively by most of the crap that gets posted here. Let's get on to the primary votes and then get ready for the real war in 2004.


Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.

[Toucano]

2. You have a welcomed voice of reason

and wisdom. Three cheers!:yourock:

[Padraig18]

3. Thanks!

:hi:

[maddezmom]

4. no flame here

wise words. :)

[Padraig18]

7. Thank you!

I think we have all been guilty of 'going over the top', on occasion, especially in response to a particularly nasty thread/attack on our favored candidate; fortunately, I also think that most of us are smart enough to see 'the big picture', and realize what's really at stake next November. :)

[mikehiggins]

5. Of course none of them are the Second Coming of the Messiah

Clark, for example, is really Moses.


Seriously, let's all calm down until we have a nominee. Save up our energy as it were.

[Jerseycoa]

6. Thank you, Padraig

"it simply means that they aren't us, you see?"


This has been some ugly few fucking days, but gotcha :)

[Padraig18]

11. It's been REALLY ugly here lately!

I've called down more than one 'over the top' Dean supporter on some incindiary post, and would encourage others to do the same when one of their fellow supporters crosses that line. Enough is enough. :)

[Crunchy Frog]

19. Yes, it looks like that

Christmas ceasefire that you advocated didn't go over too well. I don't think I've ever seen things so ugly here.

Thank you Padraig for your heroic attempts at keeping the dialogue civil.
:yourock:

[Padraig18]

21. I will keep on trying!

I know what's at stake in November: do we, or do we not reclaim our right as sovereign people to self-government? Bottom line, ONLY the Democratic party's nominee takes us there. :hi:

[Logansquare]

48. Agreed-I messaged a fellow Dean supporter

not long ago about his/her nastiness toward a Clark supporter. Never heard back, but this person has calmed down quite a bit since then. We all should police our own.

[chookie]

8. Even if they *were*....

We could have Jesus Christ running as the Dem candidate for President, with God the Father as his running mate, and the wackos who have hijacked the Republican party would STILL run the most vicious attacks in campaign history against Them.

They are going to attempt to DESTROY whoever dares to run against His Chimperial Highness.

[JohnKleeb]

9. Make good points

:thumbsup:

[Blue_Roses]

10. if they

walk on water then they get my vote! :eyes:

Isn't that what many are looking for? The republicans have had Bush walking on water for 3 years now, even though the rest of us have seen him in water 3 feet over his head.

I agree. To try and make a candidate out to be a "saint" won't help with the many problems that need to be addressed in this country.

Clinton definitely didn't walk on water, however, he did help this country get on a track that has been lost with this administration.

WE just need to find a candidate who shares OUR common ground--and flame wars don't help.

[Cha]

12. No one is the "second coming"..so

that's a relief right there.
I need convincing that bush isn't the antichrist, though. And anyone that enables him is no better.

[AntiCoup2K4]

29. OK, I'll convince you....

The Antichrist will manage to convince the majority of the world that he is a brilliant leader and a man of peace. Junior is a moron who has pissed off 80% of the world with illegal wars. He's far too stupid to be the Antichrist.

[BootinUp]

13. Thanks for that post Padraig

:toast:

[Padraig18]

14. You're welcome!

I think it's time we temporarily forgot civility, and started working on sanity in this forum! :P :toast:

[Deesh]

15. Just a thank-you

You're a class act, Padraig.

[Padraig18]

16. *bows*

Thank you! :hi:

[salinen]

17. "not one--- is the Second Coming of the Messiah"

But the current occupier thinks he is.

[Padraig18]

18. And he is BADLY mistaken!

;)

[A HERETIC I AM]

20. I agree, but i have yet to decide. I am leaning toward Kucinich, but....

unfortunately, i don't think he has much of a chance which is a real tragedy because he seems to be the most on the ball. I have yet to find a single thing he has said that i disagree with. He is truly one of the most rational, progressive figures in politics today. He was spot on in the recent debate when he dressed down Ted Koppel with his characterization of the media directing the agenda.

Now for a statement that will sure to cause some ire.
It is my opinion that Lieberman has absolutely NO chance of EVER being elected President because this country will not elect a Jew to the highest office, REGARDLESS of how well qualified he is. I am not an anti Semite, i am merely giving my opinion. I just don't think the majority of the electorate will vote for him. Also, Ms. Mosley Braun is in the same boat. As qualified as she is for it, (and i absolutely think she would make a good President) this country has not evolved enough to elect a woman, much less a black woman as it's leader.

Am I wrong?

[drfemoe]

24. I would say

you're wrong because you are singling out one religion. There are several religions that Americans are not keen for. I also don't see choosing a woman for president as a by-product of social evolution. Ancient matriarchal societies were much more socially developed than we are in our current situation.

Perhaps for that reason, I don't think we will ever have a president who used to live in his car, as Kucinich says he did. I'm not saying that's "fair", it's just an opinion based on observation.

The disparity in our country is based on CLASS more than religion, race or gender.

[A HERETIC I AM]

25. I don't disagree with you at all......

But if i am wrong then i defer to your 2nd sentence and saying so, then Lieberman, and any Mormon, Seventh Day Adventist or Jehovah's Witness need not apply. I singled out one religion (Judaism) because of the current religio-political climate in this country. Fundamentalist Christianity has a HUGE political voice in this country these days, far outweighing the actual numbers of the folks that hold that particular theological point of view. Fundy Xtians must admit that their faith says all Jews are going to burn in hell if they don't accept Christ as their personal savior. How many of those folks want a damned person as President?

[sleepyhead]

44. There was a poll a few years back...

That asked people, would you vote for a (fill in the blank) for president? Some of the categories were: woman, black person, Jewish person, Muslim, gay man, lesbian - you get the idea. The *least* likely person to get Presidential votes was an atheist. This doesn't negate your argument, but there are still some taboos that go even deeper than disagreements about the different religions.

[SharonAnn]

22. Even if one was the second coming of the Messiah, he/she

would still be attacked by the Bush/Rove machine with false accusations and outright lies.

[Padraig18]

23. Exactly!

That is why we, as Democrats, must decide on who will best represent what WE believe about the direction America must take, and to hell with Rovian-attack nightmares--- those are coming, no matter what or who.

[Myra]

26. Yup. Too bad they're expected to be superhuman yet we all recognize

That Bush is the friggen devil.

[OneBlueSky]

27. I've said it before and I'll say it again . . .

this is NOT a strong field of candidates . . . my reasoning? . . . not one of them is as good a candidate as Al Gore, and Al Gore wasn't all that good! . . . there are no Roosevelts, Kennedys, or Clintons in the field, which is why I assess our chances in 2004 at way below 50/50 . . . jmho, but I've been watching presidential elections for a long time, and I don't like what I'm seeing leading up to next year . . . flame me if you must, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em . . .

[Donna Zen]

28. I've never started a thread...

I stay out of Dean's threads, I do state my opinion but try to back it up with some rationale; however, I've never seen such a day as this. One poster started 5 threads bashing Clark. No facts...we don't seem to need them anymore. I'm still amazed by a post stating that only Clark out of the entire military is a cold blooded killer. There are posters who make me want to puke.

It is becoming increasingly difficult to stay focused on beating the junta.

[Mairead]

30. No, this is not a case of 'de gustibus'

They're not simply different brands of soft drink. Among the candidates there are 2 very different views of how America should work, and allegience to a candidate is allegience to one of those two views.

Do we want the nation run for the benefit of the elite owners or for the working people? The question is a little more complicated than that, but not much. That's what each of us must decide.

This is not Coke vs Pepsi.

[Padraig18]

31. Kick!

:dem:

[HFishbine]

32. Padraig. Are you 24 or younger?

I thought I remember reading a post that indicated you were a young adult. If so, you'd be ideal for this:

http://www.democrats.org/convention/contests.html

[Padraig18]

33. Yes, I am; I'll be 21 soon.

Thanks for the info. :hi:

[HFishbine]

34. I hope you'll enter

it seems right up your alley. If you want, you could post your submission here for critique.

[Padraig18]

35. This may seem silly, but I have one worry...

If I do enter and would happen to be selected, I still have an accent that is pretty thick, although very few people have trouble understanding me when I speak. I know it's a silly thing to worry about, but... :shrug:

[HFishbine]

36. That would be a plus

The democratic party (hopefully this is still true) is the inclusive party. You should be warmly welcomed.

Also, you'd have plenty of time to practice, to iron out any words or phrases that people might have a hard time undertanding. Of course, you'd be in front of, oh, perhaps 20,000 people, but you can handle that, right?

[Padraig18]

37. LOL!

Actually, I've never had stage fright, so the 20K people would bother me less than my fear of bungling a word here and there. :P

[HFishbine]

38. 20,000 +

Plus the few million who will be watching on TV. Go for it! You're an excellent writer, I'll bet you could win.

[Padraig18]

39. I want to talk it over with Tony first.

But my inclination is to go for it. :)

[HFishbine]

40. If I may ask

What country are you from and how long have you been in America? Are youa citizen? Will you be voting?

[Padraig18]

41. By birth, I'm Irish.

I was naturalized 2 years ago. I've been here since 1994, and will be voting for the second time, although it will be my 1st time to vote in a presidential year. :)

[HFishbine]

42. Wonderful

A nice Irish lilt is charming.

[Padraig18]

43. Bit more than a lilt, I'm afraid.

I'm a westerner, and even other Irish sometimes have trouble understanding us! Hehehe... :P

[Padraig18]

45. Kick!

:dem:

[Stuckinthebush]

46. Ahhhh...refreshing!

Thank you, Padrig18! It is so tiresome to view all of the divisiveness around here. The big picture is constantly lost. You are a shining example of where we need to be.

Have a wonderful day!

[Padraig18]

47. Thank you!

I hope yours is wonderful, too! :hi: