Gerald Ford Robbed Americans Of Closure

[eleny]

Nixon was guilty. His acceptance of Ford's pardon ends any debate on that. But by not going to trial in the Senate, Americans are robbed of closure. The bad guy got to admit he was guilty but never had to pay for it.

With Clinton, he was impeached, went to trial in the Senate and was found not guilty. Forever, I can look Republicans in the eye and tell them to go pound sand.

But Nixon got away with his actions and I'm afraid we're going to see this again in a way with W if Congress fails to impeach.

I'm 60 and Nixon's pardon still doesn't sit well with me. Sure, I've moved on because current events give you that shove in the back. But when I get the chance to look back, it plays a bitter note.

[iconoclastic cat]

1. Yes, I would've preferred flannel. nt.

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. If you are going to make sarcastic comments about spelling

It would be a kindness to point out the spelling error. :hi:

Personally, I prefer terry cloth for most of the year, flannel only in winter.

[eleny]

8. Thanks! All fixed...

Too bad spell check can't correct brain farts. One of the nice things about being 60 is that I can laugh this off. I'm series!!!!1!!

Funny that it's a fiber issue. Remember Pat Nixon's "cloth coat"?

[ClassWarrior]

2. K&R

:thumbsup:

NGU.

[NaturalHigh]

3. Good grief. Can we get past the Ford-bashing threads?

The guy is being buried today. For the past few days, he's been more maligned around here than Saddam Hussein.

Is it too much to expect people to show a little class?

[RaleighNCDUer]

5. To be fair, Saddam did this country a lot less harm than Ford did. nt

[beaconess]

14. Oh - I don't think so.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. What, exactly, did Saddam ever do to us?

Ford undermined our justice system, emplanted the neocons in high government circles, covered up the truth about the Kennedy assassination.

How does Saddam compare? His army killed some of our military in defending his country against invasions we initiated, twice. His own army suffered, literally, 1000 times the casualties that ours did in Gulf 1 - 150,000+ against our 138. He was accused of sponsoring a plot against Bush 1, which was, suprpise, nipped in the bud and the plotters quickly executed. Anything else? Oh, that's right. He caused 9/11. :eyes:

[beaconess]

35. I misread your post - sorry

Thought you said that Saddam did much less harm than Ford did. You're right that Saddam did little harm to this country.

[eleny]

10. This was my first thread on the matter

And I don't take it back. I suggest you just hide this thread. Furthermore, go ahead and add me to your Ignore list.

[lyonn]

22. The funeral has been on tv for days with so much praise -

what was truly so great about him? Ok, spoke politely, etc. At the time Ford pardoned Nixon I figured, good ridance and let sleeping dogs lie. Now, those dogs are back and are more seasoned and bloodthirsty. How long was he the unelected pres? Less than 4 years, get real folks, this whole burial scene is obscene.

It's show time folks, or, forget the real issues facing our country. Meanwhile, we wait "breathlessly" for the words from bush that he is sending more troops. Let's see how he coordinates Pelosi's and Reid's takeover with his announcement.

[eleny]

33. Well said!

I agree with your observations completely.

I heard a few seconds of Kissinger's bs and turned the radio off. This funeral is their opportunity to put on a compassionate face. Their chance to demonstrate that blood actually runs in their veins. I'm not buying it.

[aquart]

12. "Class"? Like he showed when he pardoned the White House criminal?

You can take that kind of "class" and stuff it.

If you want to counter with the real good the man did, like the incident on the aircraft carrier, do so. But the brass flaming balls to come on here and tell us to mind our manners.

Nobody with real manners publicly corrects someone else's manners. They simply show by example how it's done.

Me, I have no such pretensions.

[NaturalHigh]

17. I commend you for having "no such pretensions".

You should be very proud of yourself. I still find it very sickening that we have threads about Saddam titled "Goodbye Daddy", while a former US president gets pulled through the mud. Of course, that's the way some people think, and it's their right. It's also my right to point out that it's crap.

[Zenlitened]

13. "Bashing." There's a word that's WAY over-used.

:puke:

[NaturalHigh]

64. Please "zenliten" me on how it should be used.

[Zenlitened]

65. As another poster has already pointed out (see below), criticism does not equal "bashing."

Pretty simple, huh?

Criticism equals... criticism. In this case, the voicing of one's political point of view. About a political figure, no less. On a political discussion board.

Who'da thunk it?

The word is at the heart of a whole ugly meme perpetuated (or perhaps perpetrated) by the right wing. Does the phrase "Bush bashing" not come to mind? How about "angry liberals"? Or the always popular "Osama-lovin', America-hatin' terrorist-enablers"?

Ugly, ugly stuff. "Bashing." Gimme a break. :crazy:

[paulk]

49. I really don't find this "bashing"

The topic of Ford's pardon is hot right now - mostly because he just died - and also because the MSM has been pimping the pardon as "healing".

If you think talking about the pardon is somehow "maligning" Ford...

I'd hate to see how you would catagorize real insults...

[eleny]

52. Thanks! I guess was supposed to wait a month

When no one would care much.

[paulk]

56. I think it's an important topic, myself

especially with the way the MSM has been pimping this "healing" thing.

I really don't see how criticizing Ford's pardon is maligning him.


---------------

ps - get much snow where you are?

[eleny]

58. Thanks! And yes, we got tons of snow around here

Just 8 miles west of Denver, so we got dumped on. We even purchased a roof snow rake and dragged some off the roof. It saved us from bad ice damming.

[MISSDem]

50. Class? Like he wouldn't even let Betty make up her own mind

on how to handle her breast cancer. When asked if Mrs. Ford had made her decision on what kind of surgery to have the spokesman for the then President Ford said "the President has made HIS decision. She will have a mastectomy." HIS being my emphasis.

[saracat]

72. This is garbage.No one was as supportive of women's rights than Ford.

He did a lot more for women than any of our so called liberal presidents.He authorized women students in the military academies and was pro choice.He supported Betty and the ERA.I am sick of this misinterpetation of the man.

[MISSDem]

74. You may be correct on what you are saying but

on the decision of whether or not for Mrs. Ford to have a radical
mastectomy or a lumpectomy, HE chose the former. Google it.

[specimenfred1984]

57. It's not "classy" to deny treason and pardon high crimes

It is stabbing your own country in the back.

[Say_What]

59. Three war criminals eulogized him, Bush, Kissinger, Bush--that should give you a clue,

Ford and Kissinger gave the go ahead for Suharto to invade East Timor and get rid of the *commies*--200,000 DIED. There's hardly any difference between the two if you ask me.

<clips>

The United States gave Indonesia the green light for the bloody 1975 invasion of East Timor, subjecting the territory to 24 years of occupation, according to newly released state documents.

...This marked the start of an occupation which left as many as 200,000 dead.

...Warning that Timor's powerful left-leaning group Fretelin was "infected with communism", Suharto said: "We want your understanding if we take rapid or drastic action."

President Ford said he understood.

"We will not press you on the issue. We understand the problems you have and the intentions you have," he said.

Mr Kissinger also approved the decision, but said he preferred that Suharto held off until the president was back in America.

"We understand your problem and the need to move quickly but I am only saying it would be better if it were done after we returned."

That way, he said, "we would be able to influence the reaction in America."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1697248.stm



The Americans expressed understanding for the plan

[Moochy]

66. Is this GD: Funeral Parlor?

I get confused... are we all bloggin from the the funeral ?

[phantom power]

6. I agree with you. One thing that's irritated me about the "pardon" coverage...

over the last week has been that everybody is falling all over themselves to explain that "historians have ultimately decided that Ford's pardon of Nixon was, indeed, the best way to move forward blah blah blah."

Well, that's bullshit. I think the idea that the pardon was a "Good Idea" is one viewpoint, but it's very controversial. There are also plenty of arguments that it was a Very Bad Idea, and how come we aren't seeing any of those on the news?

[blm]

9. That's been burning me up, too - the REVISIONISM by the corpmedia talking heads.

It wasn't right when Ford helped the coverup and still not right when Clinton helped the coverup.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[eleny]

15. That's the problem

And I can't stand all the talk about how the American people would have a hard time dealing with it. As if we'd get the vapors over impeachment. Baloney.

The problem was that we would have been made aware of the corruption in the government. As far as I'm concerned, it only saved Republicans from public shame.

[lancdem]

16. I remember reading that article before

It gave me some serious pause.

[blm]

73. I think it'sone of the most important post 9-11 commentary that's been written.

.

[eleny]

11. Absolutely

[aquart]

7. Ford destroyed an American generation's faith in justice.

He single-handedly created the Me Decade, in which young people turned to self-perfection because they could no longer place any faith in our institutions or our constitution. Justice did not apply to the rich or well-connected. Only selfishness paid off.

That was how Ford's pardon "healed" us.

[eleny]

19. I can't relate to any of that rhetoric, either

They've been laying it on way too thick.

[jobycom]

18. A correction

Nixon's pardon had nothing to do with Nixon being tried in the Senate. Impeachment is only a decision on whether to remove a president, it is not a criminal trial in any way. The Senate could not try to impeach Nixon once he resigned, so Ford's issuing a pardon of Nixon did not affect anything the Senate could have done.

The pardon prevented Nixon from facing criminal charges in criminal courts involving the break-in or the cover-up afterwards.

As for Nixon never having to pay for it, some would argue that resigning the presidency in disgrace was at least some penalty.

For the rest, I have no real opinion. I was a kid when Nixon resigned, and now it's just history to me. It was a difficult era, no doubt, and Ford did what he thought was best. Both Ford and Nixon are dead now. Whatever closure is, surely that's it.

[eleny]

24. I understand about the impeachment process

And I do agree with you on the technical aspects of all this. When Nixon resigned, it all became moot.

I believe that there was a deal made with Ford. So, the whole process then shifted. I feel that if Ford had not made the deal, America would have had closure on the matter.

I completely agree with you, though. And appreciate being able to clarify why it galls the heck out of me.

[cornermouse]

20. Closure is a myth. Its a psychological sugar pill.

There is no such thing as closure regardless of what they might tell you. I've lost two members of my immediate family and closure just doesn't exist.

This is probably a little odd of me, but I don't want to see any President go to prison unless they've done something much more serious than Watergate. And yes, what Dubya has done is much more serious than Watergate.

[phantom power]

25. "Closure" aside, Ford established a precedent that presidents can break the law...

and get away with it. Not a very good precedent to set. It's a bit mystifying to me that none of the coverage of this issue has dealt with that particular consequence of his pardon. Maybe it is because it would bring up too many inconvenient questions regarding currently powerful people. Or, maybe it is out of a misguided sense of politeness.

[cornermouse]

28. Please remember they impeached Clinton for the "serious" crime

of cheating on his wife and tried to lie about it. (Something any sane husband with the wish to live till the next day would do, by the way) Washington thrives on tit for tat. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life in the national instability that would inevitably occur?

[phantom power]

46. I reject Ford's premise that "instability" would have been the result.

That seems to be the core of the argument for the pardon. That we all had to "move on" as quickly as possible. Why? What, exactly, was going to happen if Nixon faced trial?

Seriously, I don't understand the argument. I saw an interview with Ford a few days ago, where he said that he just "couldn't get anything done" because people kept asking him questions about Nixon. Huh? He was the president. Tell them all "I have other issues to attend to. Nixon will stand trial as a private citizen, and I am not part of that process." Presidents tell the press (and us) to get stuffed all the time, and often with far less justification.

The other argument was that a trial would be divisive. That's also bogus. The pardon was divisive too. The world continued to spin on it's axis.

Discuss.

[eleny]

53. It would have hurt the Republican Party

He saved his Party a whole lot of grief. He did the "nothing to see here, move along" deal. Party above country.

[NaturalHigh]

36. Set a precedent?

Do you really believe that presidents before Nixon didn't break the law and get away with it?

[phantom power]

44. To my knowledge, he was the first president to break the law publicly...

and then publicly have the next president say "You won't have to face fair trial for your crime."

[eleny]

31. I'm sorry for the losses in your family

I've lost almost everyone in my family at this point but by illness.

If Nixon had to face his alleged transgressions in our legal system, I know that I would have had more faith in our government and what I call "closure" on the matter. Frankly, it's all the talk of "healing" that's chaps me off. I feel none of that where Nixon is concerned.

[RaleighNCDUer]

41. Nixon did do much more than Watergate.

And Watergate was not, in itself, any small thing, and it was possibly the least of his crimes.

But because of the pardon, all investigations into what he did do were stopped, so the full extent of his crimes will never be known.

Using the FBI and IRS in personal political vendettas is revealed in the White House tapes; ordering the burglaries of Watergate and Daniel Ellsberg's offices; ordering the coverup of those crimes; how much more will never come to light?

it's not a matter of closure - it's a matter of justice.

[jaysunb]

21. What the hell is "closure ? "

Maybe you mean he robbed some of vengence or retribution. :evilfrown:

[eleny]

26. We're a system of laws

And when we break the law, we're supposed to have it dealt with in court. That's all I expected. I expected our system to take its course.

Presidential pardon is also part of our system. We had to accept it. But I don't agree that Nixon's pardon "healed" me or the nation. I'm saying that I had to gag it down.

[MichiganVote]

37. Ford did follow the law when he pardoned Nixon. It was lawful for him to do so.

It was not to the liking of many in the population, but Ford did not break the law by doing so.

[eleny]

40. I also pointed this out and said I had to gag down the pardon

I said that presidential pardon is also part of our system. So I never implied that Ford acted outside the law.

[phantom power]

42. Exactly. And speaking of which, the whole concept of "presidential pardon" is a poisonous one.

We are supposed to be a nation of laws, not men, and yet a sitting president or governor can override our judicial system by personal fiat.

[eleny]

47. I shiver to wonder how W will use this authotiry in '09

[rock]

23. You're 100% eleny

By not having closure (i.e. having a criminal politician prosecuted) we invite all politicians to engage in criminality. (I'm 61 by the way).

[partylessinOhio]

27. What would the media comments be if this were the Clinton funeral?

Would they sugar coat his two terms or be very hard on him? We all know the answer.

For those of us that lived through Watergate, all the years of Tricky Dick and the undeserved pardon, we know Ford wasn't great and didn't heal the country. We are just living through another historical rewrite as we did with Reagan. Those years were terrible but the last six years are worse. There have been no good times under Repuglican administrations.

[eleny]

48. I think it would depend on what Party held the presidency

But I believe that we'd be made to relive the impeachment. They'd be trying to get Monica for interviews.

I doubt that his administration's achievments in capturing terrorists and bringing them to justice would have a front seat.

[flordehinojos]

29. guilt, perhaps blame is a better word, for congress failing to impeach this time may rest with, of

all people, who compaigned around the country saying that "impeachment is off the table" .

Nancy. Que pasa? put impeachment back on the tableau!

[eleny]

38. I've ben thinking about Pelosi and putting "I" off the table

If W is impeached, the same must go for Cheney. And this would make it look like Pelosi is grabbing the presidency for herself. She's really in a tough situation since Cheney is also vulnerable to impeachment.

I don't want to give her a pass, though. This is her luck of the draw where history and our Constitution is concerned. She can leave the kitchen if it's too hot. I think she's trying not to deal with that heat and that's not good.

[flordehinojos]

60. interesting observation. thanks for sharing it.

:hippie:

[Capn Sunshine]

61. Pelosi's meaning behind the "I" off the table remark

Recognizing the very scenario you mention, Nancy Pelosi knows that what is needed is INVESTIGATION , and OVERSIGHT. While you and I and the other political wonks know Bush has committed manifold crimes while in office, this information is just not common knowledge to the majority of the American public.

With renewed interestfrom the press covering these hearings, when the truth of the matter(s) come out, there will be such a huge demand for impeachment, that , in my opinion, the Republicans will HAVE to draw up articles or be doomed as a party along with Bush , Cheney , and the rest.

Knowing this, Pelosi is more than happy to let things take their normal course while the Democratic Congress pursues the agenda of actually getting something done to make up for the most inept, corrupt , and motionless congress in history.

[eleny]

68. Thanks, CP

I have a hard time taking a position of going easy on her. But it's more than interesting how much support W has lost among congressional Republicans for the war. They saw the writing on the wall on election day and have read the polls. They want to keep their jobs in Congress. And hopefully, they're seeing the light. Given the recent polling of people serving in Iraq on how they feel about a surge, it's clear that there's very little support anywhere.

So, the scenario you illustrate of things taking their natural course makes sense. But, yes, it's almost impossible to cultivate patience after reading DU almost every day for years.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

30. Mr.Ford protected Mr. Nixon

with the 'pardon'. Plain and simple. As a person who did not agree with Mr. Nixon's politics, I wanted to have him answer for his actions. Especially in light of the fact the President is, in reality, the top most Law Enforcement Officer in the country.
By issuing the pardon, Nixon was placed above the law. And precedent was set............. :mad:

[Warpy]

34. Gerald Ford set one of the worst precedents in history

by pardoning a man before formal charges were brought against him, a blanket pardon "for whatever he did."

Think about it. Stupid could issue such pardons to cover his whole rotten administration, as well as the entire Congress plus all officials within the party, especially the dirty tricksters.

His original plan was to wait for such charges, then issue the pardon. I wish he had told us just why he changed his mind at the last minute and pardoned Nixon on the spot.

[eleny]

43. GHW Bush pardoned Cap Weinberger before he was ever indicted

So Ford opened the door?

[Warpy]

51. He certainly did

[Stinky The Clown]

39. I'm right there with you, eleny .... for sorta the same reasons ....

Here's a post I made back in April after Ford signed that piece of shit statement that one of Il Dunce's minions worte for him.

A reversed personal opinion ........

[eleny]

45. Hi Husb2!

Yes, back then many people were just happy to be rid of Nixon's face off the tv. Ford was the softer, more human, of the two.

What chaps me off today is how I'm supposed to accept that the pardon was good for the country, good for me. And don't be saying anything that might be contrary to the mythology. Aggressors often pull that line. Slavery was actually good for the slaves, don't ya know? Stuff like that gets my blood pressure up.

Btw, welcome back!!! See you in C&B.

[stray cat]

54. Nixon left a disgraced president and resigned - thats closure enough for me

[Buzz Clik]

55. I had closure.

I didn't need Nixon knocked down any further.

[Moochy]

67. Humiliation was a fine substitute

Humiliation was a fine substitute for the prosecution and sentencing for his crimes.
Why it was so stressful, poor old tricky dick. That was enough of a "national wound" to endure.

:sarcasm:

Nationalism is a poison that addles the mind.

[KingFlorez]

62. Nixon's resignation was enough closure

[blm]

75. It left many of those around him with still enough power to regroup and come back

stronger. Just as when Clinton left the entire Bush gang to carry on and STRENGTHEN in his efforts to give Poppy Bush a 'peaceful retirement' for all his years of service to the country - that worked out well, too, didn't it?

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[cascadiance]

63. If we don't get an impeachment or resignation, we still NEED an ammendment on pardons!

That is minimally what I would accept for this term of congress. If we can't work a deal to help get Bushco out of office before his term is up, then I'd say we should still try to push with the Republicans that minimally we need a change to keep Bush and others following him from pardoning those members of the executive branch. Find some way to get some set of concrete and constructive limits on who a president can pardon (so that he can't pardon members of his own cabinet, or a previous administration's cabinet, etc. under certain conditions). The goal would be to prevent the "recycling" of folks like Elliot Abrams, Negroponte, etc. back into positions of power where they cause the same damage again. If we can get that accomplished that will be a big step forward towards preventing this sort of mess from ever happening again, even if someone like Pelosi or another Republican isn't put in power before 2009.

Holding some of the extreme cases criminally liable and putting them in prison hopefully also would provide a greater disincentive for someone to try power grabs and other illegal fascist behavior in the future too.

[eleny]

69. The whiff of corruption hangs over the Congress

I can't imagine the Republicans joining in on this kind of legislation. But we can demand and dream, can't we?! :hi:

[cascadiance]

70. Since there are so many Republicans up for reelection in the Senate in 2008...

... I'm thinking that more than the usual amount might be persuaded if there is hard data that shows they will pay the price then if they don't do something to show that they are on the side of law and justice to their voters.

Now they might be paranoid about the Dems being given the executive completely (with Nancy Pelosi taking charge then) if they went through with an impeachment or having both of them resign (which Dems might offer as one of the options for them to choose from to move forward on).

Having this sort of ammendment might meet them half way though, as it might preserve them some set of the votes that they would lose to keep their seats in the Senate in 2008, and yet not give the Democrats executive power at all before 2009 (which impeachment or dual resignations might).

Dems should hit everyone over the head right now that the big thing is that we can't afford to have pardons. We can be respectful as hell to Gerry Ford now in the funeral we have and laud him for many other things such as ending the Vietnam war, etc., but make one BIG exception in that we have to make sure to take more circumspectual examination on what pardons are allowed to happen in the future to ensure that we don't perpetuate any more criminal wrongdoing in the future. If said right, that might be a stern warning to the Republicans where we draw our line in the sand on what we'll fight on and aren't flexible on.

[eleny]

71. Agreed

If there's evidence that a president has defaulted on the oath to uphold the Constitution, there should be no pardon but examination of the issues. Otherwise, we might as well be a monarchy.