I've been banned from my favorite Dean Discussion Board...

[mzmolly]

Some of my fellow Dean supporters may be familiar with a group we all started when DU as a whole, was not very "Dean friendly."

The criteria for inclusion was that you are a Dean supporter. That's it. Once you no longer supported HD for President, you were no longer welcome. That's understandable. But the problem came in when people started to discuss *what happens if Dean doesn't win* The NBD-ers started threads about "writing in Dean" and the ABBers started threads about "supporting the Dem nominee."

ABB = A Democrat who plans to support the eventual nominee (in most cases)

NBD = A Democrat or Inde who refuses to support anyone but Dean (in most cases)

While I never started any such discussion, I felt free to share my thoughts on the matter, when the subject was *brought up.* And, at one time I suggested a seperate forum because I feared these discussions would divide the group.

The reason I'm posting here is because to my understanding, people are being told I left on my own accord. This is a lie. After asking to leave two weeks ago, I was sent this note:

"Please stay. I dont want to make it my full time job to moderate this forum. I just wish people behaved so we didn't have to deal with this. However, I will personally assure that once the primaries are over, I will allow discussions to elect the democratic nominee. That means ABB would be welcome here. Lets leave it at that. But right now, I will urge folks not to bring this ABB/NBD issue up again because we dont need it when we should be helping Dean win the nomination."

And...

"Please forgive me if I have been rather harsh in dealing with this issue. When you mentioned about the posts from last night, I went back and read them; so I apologize for not cracking down on them in the spirit of fairness. I will ask the other members (NBD) to exercise restraint on this issue as well. I thank you for your support and participation."

It was then that I decided to stay. I asked the admin to clarify with the membership that restraint on both ends was desired, but that never happened and the conversations "as I expected" continued.

As many of you know, I asked for a seperate forum for such discussions and poof the thread was locked and the forum that was created by one admin, was deleted by another for (lack of bandwith)

After asking the admin why I was banned (several times) they finally responded with the following note(s):

"After the behaviour of 'X' calling X to everyone who wasn't an ABB, I was convinced that being inclusive to ABB was a bad idea.
Majority of the board members will thank me for not letting you or your types in. I will ask X to publish a more "clearer" guideline for participation so that we dont have ABBers or this confusion in future."

WTF is "MY TYPE" a Democrat? Democrats are not allowed to participate on a Discussion Board that supports one of the Democratic nominees?

I was totally flabberghasted over being banned, and wanted to share because there may be others being asked for contributions to this new board. You should be forwarned that you may not welcome in the long run, before giving them your $.

I asked the admin to update the membership as to what happened, because I felt they deserved to know, and I was told to "quit f**king spamming" the admin.

I also tried to share on the old *private* yahoo group, but was promplty banned from there as well, which is why I decided to share "here." The group is invitation only, so I don't feel I'm betraying any confidence by sharing here, however I did feel that after several emails and inquiries, people deserved to know the truth.

FWIW, I will never discuss contents of the conversation(s) we had, nor is this an attempt at vengence. It is an attempt to inform the membership of that board what his happening, nothing more, nothing less.

[opihimoimoi]

1. Thanks. I needed to hear that. Been unable to log on for couple

of weeks now/ now deleted.

I welcome your heads up thingy, mahalo.

[mzmolly]

5. Wow, sorry to hear that. Pathetic huh?

It's pretty dishonest to solicit funds for a new discussion board while being underhanded about what it involves.

[Deja Q]

2. If people think that enough write-in votes will get Dean elected...

they're only handling Bushwhacker* a legitimate term. In which case, they'd better not bash the Greens again, like they shouldn't have the first time as there were 4 or 5 factors that contributed to Gore's loss, not just the smegging Greens...

[mzmolly]

4. It's not a Green vs. Dem thing at all. There are plenty of Dems

very angry and many have gained a new understanding of the thought process behind a third party, myself included.

Though, I still can't stand Nader personally. I understand where people are coming from.

[eileen_d]

3. Wow - message boards are like Survivor!

Outwit - Outplay - Outlast

[Fenris]

6. Man. That is completely asinine.

Eating your own: It's not just for Republicans anymore.

Anyone energized enough about a particular candidate that they become willing to write him in instead of vote for the nominee is just unsettling to me. I guess the fact that I never (ever) found HD the least bit appealing makes me biased. But I will say that if he is the nominee, I would vote for him, even though I am not extremely fond of him.

[mzmolly]

8. I have no problem personally with the thought of writing Dean in, but I do

have a problem when only one half of the issue is allowed to be presented, KWIM? I have a great deal of respect for many who will write in Dean. I just wanted those that chose not to, to have equal respect is all.

Thanks for your thoughts though. Dean predicted that many of his supporters would not support the nominee, and he is simply right.

Hey, I love old Woody Allen movies BTW!

[Dookus]

7. that's the problem with "true-believers"

eventually, nobody believes hard enough to please them, and it comes down to a three-person circle-jerk.

[mzmolly]

9. I kinda fear that's coming. But I expect I've ruffled the feathers to the

point where they have to prove me wrong. I predict a new level of tolerance ;)

[Dookus]

12. I hope so

for their sake. It'll get pretty lonely otherwise.

[mzmolly]

13. Yea me too.

:shrug:

[EXE619K]

10. Moll, are you backing away from Dean?

Noticed that your avatar has changed...

Just outta curiosity.

[mzmolly]

11. HELL NO! ... I am supersticious (sp) is all, I changed it in hopes to

bring him luck...

I wear a helmet for Viking games too, but we didn't win the SuperBowl in spite of my efforts...Imagine that! :P

I'm with Dean until he wins the nomination or he decides its over.

[Edge]

14. This proves Democrats aren't united...

especially when you get banned for voicing your ABB opinion. That's assinine. They can keep praying to God that Dean will get the nomination, but at this point, it doesn't look good.

Those people need a swift slap to the head to knock some sense into them.

[DS1]

15. ABBALAID?

:evilgrin:

[mzmolly]

17. Heh heh... Not sure what that means but ???

;)

[DS1]

27. Anybody But Bush As Long As It's Dean

;-)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. Imagine that. Totalitarianism on a Dean site

Who'da thunk?

[mzmolly]

19. Not me...

I find it rather ironic personally.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

24. I dont think Dean has a religious attachment like other Prez candidates

do frankly. I feel most Dean supporters are fully aware of his human qualities.

But, I have ran into a few very narrow Dean supporters. They exist in all Presidential support groups.

[Dookus]

26. I'm sure they do to some degree...

but hop over to GD04 right now and count the posts from Dean supporters who won't (or say they won't) vote for the nominee in November if it isn't Dean. Compare that the Clark/Edwards/Kerry supporters who say the same thing. The Dean people win by a huge margin.

[BurtWorm]

49. I'll bet you're overcounting them!

If you're counting my threads you are.

[Mass_Liberal]

38. not any more than

Clark or Kerry supporters. People like him is all.

[seaglass]

42. Not true. Count them up. n/t

[BurtWorm]

48. You could be talking about people from any campaign

SOA is good, voting for Reagan is good, bombing Serbs is good, etc.

[Terwilliger]

45. It'll be nothing compared to what DU will be soon enough

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

18. Can someone please explain...

The difference between that place and FreeperBurgh?

[mzmolly]

20. Well, uhm.... I can't.

I used to enjoy it, but I fought hard when I saw this coming... Sad day in the life of this Deanie.

Peace out, signing off and headed home from work :hi:

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

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[BruinAlum]

22. Unbelievable

My opinion of Dean and his "movement" just gets lower and lower.

[mzmolly]

23. Actually this has nothing to do with Dean and little to do with

"his movement." It was a very small discussion board and a very immature person happened to build it and then take it over.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

31. Well, your newer here I take it? We had a "Stop Dean Movement" which

was started by Clark supporters, and Dean and his supporters have seen *much* venom from the supporters of other candidates. Which is why we started our own discussion board in the first place ... So, I guess the perspective is in the eye of the beholder right?

Peruse the archives, you'll see what I mean. You will also note that major Dem establishment types were anti-Dean which is as divisive as it gets. They were spewing vile about him when he was the front runner. There were ads put out by other Dems "The Osama Ads" that could have damaged Deans chances in the long run were he the nominee, so to call Dean supporters "divisive" is unfair IMO.

Also Dean has alot of support from Independents who are not gonna support Democrats in general. They were encouraged and inspired by Dean and the desire for much needed change.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

33. Sorry but that's been done to Dean too. He's been on the receiving end

of many "untrue hit pieces" that could have damaged Dems in the long run.

It's the pot calling the kettle black IMO. (This is not directed at you personally.)

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mass_Liberal]

37. its a tiny minority

I wouldn't say that any more than saying "I see a lot of people who seem not to say anything positive. They often just track down positive Dean threads and piss all over them"


Now, I see a lot of that personally. But I'm not going to say that this is a Kerry thing.

[BurtWorm]

50. It's fear that causes people to mistake support for Dean as

totalitarianism. Or to willfully mischaracterize it that way. This kind of talk pushes me back toward NBD--as if there's a "type" who supports Dean anymore than there's a type who is ABB. This kind of broad brush characterization of campaigns and their supporters is not going to help the cause of unity.

And I will say, as someone who knows a little something about the board in question, that I've noticed a tendency for people who are isolated in groups to fall into folies a beaucoups, if there's such an expression--craziness of the many. Group dynamics takes over, and eventually only the "fittest" ideas survive the challenges of the self-created environment, and "weak" ideas are filtered out. Of course these ideas are not necessarily "fit" and "weak" in any environment but the one that created them. Don't think this is a phenomenon of that board alone, though. We're all working on testing the fitness of *this* idea, after all, aren't we?

[mzmolly]

25. BY THE WAY I DID NOT START THIS DISCUSSION IN AN ATTEMPT TO

SMEAR MY FELLOW DEAN SUPPORTERS. THERE ARE *ONE or TWO* PEOPLE I BELIEVE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS, OUT OF MORE THAN 100. These people are by far the "exception" and not the rule. It just so happens they ended up controlling the group I speak of. How? Because they *volunteered* to administer the site.

I personally find Dean supporters (by and large) to be the most diverse/dedicated/realistic/passionate/educated group of supporters there are!

I am sharing this because other DU-ers also belong and they are having a fund drive to expand their goal of exclusion. :eyes: I felt people had a right to know, but didn't have time to email all 160 plus members.


:hi:

[BruinAlum]

29. As a Kerry supporter, that reflects my observations here as well

Just to make myself very clear, if I didn't in my previous post, my observations of the vast majority of Dean supporters in the GD04 are reasonable, rational, realistic, and non-divisive people.

The problems of which I speak come from a small minority.

[mzmolly]

30. Thanks for the clarification.

:)

[Mass_Liberal]

40. cool

it s'all good.

[BurtWorm]

52. You can say that about any campaign.

Is there really a larger percentage of reasonable people in other campaigns? Have you done the statistical analysis to support that view?

It's this kind of talk, again, that endangers the Kerry cause. How can you be sure it isn't you who's sipped the Kool-Aid?

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Walt Starr]

47. Drama

I think we all understand that.

:D

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mass_Liberal]

41. uh?

me confused.

[Northwind]

43. That is not how it happened, mzmolly

And you know it. Beyond the fact that you actually requested that your account be deactivated, many members, myself included, consistantly attempted to steer a middle ground and not alientate anyone, as well as defending you on many ocassions. Soon after the 1st wave of NBD/ABB posts, you asked for and were granted your wish for a seperate forum to discuss the matter. Your response to the creation of that forum was, "I am not going to use it." Once the decision was made to table all discussion of the NBD/ABB issue, you continued with it against that policy, I would add that everyone BUT you had no problem staying away from the subject. Should I also bring up your PM campain to try and make everyone see things your way?

Try again.

[rucky]

44. Confirms to me that NBD is a bluff

a strategy for the primary

[Northwind]

46. For some, maybe

But not for me. If Dean is not nominated and does not initiate an independant run, I will write him in. Dean is the only one who gets my vote, period.

[Padraig18]

51. I applied weeks ago, and can't get in.

No one will act on my application, so screw 'em...

[shance]

53. Now that I have a better understanding of the situation.

Molly, why dont you begin with telling us the real way it happened?

You are attempting to slander a group that was trying to respect everyones opinions, and was attempting to balance a touchy situation and TRIED to accomodate you with your own forum, and even then you said no.

This is unbelievable that you would start this thread, when you know the truth, and yet you are more willing to play the victim.

If people want the truth, there are other mods that would be more than happy to give a more accurate and full account.

I wasnt involved, but I have read the original threads and I have a better picture of what actually ocurred.

[Moderator]

54. Locking.

Somehow this became a flamefest.

Thanks,
DU Moderator