Cindy Sheehan arrives in Cuba?

[snowbear]

Some on the General Discussion said she was on Faux tonight.. She must've done her interview, then headed to the airport..



http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/5113526.html


Activist Cindy Sheehan Heading to Guantanamo Bay

(January 7, 2007)--War protester Cindy Sheehan is going to Guantanamo Bay.

She and eleven other anti-war and human rights activists have arrived in Havana and are planning to travel across Cuba to demonstrate in front of the US military prison.

Sheehan is calling for prison to be closed.

The protest is scheduled for Thursday, five years after the first detainees were taken there.

When asked about possibly facing sanctions for traveling to Cuba, Sheehan told reporters that she's "not afraid of anything."

The leader of the activist group says members believe they're exempt from travel restrictions because they're professional human rights advocates.

The group is also slated to attend an international conference in Guantanamo City the day before the protest.

[still_one]

1. In my view this only complicates getting out of Iraq

As when she went to visit Venezuela's Chávez, this will only switch the debate from us getting out of Iraq to her going to Cuba.

Protesting our involvement in the war, or politicians on both the republican and Democratic side who are not against us getting out of Iraq is where the focus should be.

I do not think this is the way to influence our politicians, and government to get us out of Iraq. In fact I think it will end up doing just the opposite.

[MADem]

2. I agree. The intentions are good, but the methodology doesn't broadcast the desired message NT

[peacetheonlyway]

5. I disagree... totally appropriate for Cindy to be in Cuba

Guantanamo bay should rest as a point of embarrassment for every single American. I wake up everyday
sad that it is still going on.

She is the only one of left in this pitiful greedy nation to have backbone enough to demand an end to US Government sanctioned torture. It is totally in line with her story all along, get out of Iraq, stop the war, stop the negative side effects of the war like senseless deaths of American soldiers as well as senseless deaths from torture often involving innocent individuals.

The recurring 'democratic consultant thinking' that marks a centrist milk toast lack of spine that has now become the democratic party where leader Nancy Pelosi basically says "I'll give you the money for war if you ask nicely."

When does a single democrat in this nation grow the backbone that Cindy has and finally and completely stop the economic bloodletting of the war in Iraq??? When does someone look in their own bank accounts, at their own job prospects that get worse with each day in this global economy we keep spending billions on a very bad idea in order to line the pockets of some Oil Executives... when do people stop thinking like democratic centrist consultants and begin recognize several things about Ms. Sheehan.

#1 Ms. Sheehan is this era's greatest heroine with more backbone than any member of congress or the white house for her unfailing and uncompromising and consistent peacefully disobedient activities related to getting us out of Iraq.
#2 Her symbolic protest speaks for millions of Americans who agree with her actions.
#3 She is hailed and respected and invited by heads of European nations and other nations all around the world as a spokesman for the under represented progressive voice and yet majority of Americans who want the war to END TODAY. Not tomorrow, not next week, not after Nancy finishes writing a check out of my frigging bank account for the war...
She's asking us to stop the war NOW!

Bottom line, like this photo I took of Cindy in DC, Cindy Stands for THE TRUTH. nothing else matters. good intentions sometimes are also good action.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75649428@N00/349731380/

I hope we get torture off our continent and off our shores.. it's a disgrace. Thanks cindy for all your brave disobedience... MLK and Ghandi would be proud of you!

[still_one]

36. Watch, it won't be about stopping the war now, it will be about Cuba

That is how it will be presented

You believe this approach will get our troops out of Iraq, I don't

[LittleClarkie]

68. Being there for the Gitmo prisoners was good. What was bad

was muddying her message with talk about the Cuban embargo. What does that have to do with the war or the prisoners at Gitmo.

She needs to focus.

[eleny]

3. Have you checked the polls on Iraq lately?

Cindy Sheehan is partly responsible for the negative opinions about our invasion and occupation.

The other day, Al Sharpton pointed out that activists don't solve an issue - they keep the focus on the issue. And Ms. Sheehan does a very good job of it. She doesn't need nor care about our blessing.

[Superman Returns]

4. your right

she helped make the anti-war movement mainstream. But the Chavez, Cuba, and Palestinian endeavors have muddled her message and focus.

[eleny]

7. I disagree

I'm glad she spoke with Chavez. And going to Cuba to protest the prison is admirable, IMO. I'd never be so brave, but I haven't lost a child in a senseless war. And if she chose to get involved in the plight of the Palestinians - well, look at the recent stand Carter made.

Some people are willing to take the heat. Cindy is one of them and I have the utmost respect for her. I'm glad she doesn't listen to the finger wagging, tsk-tsking, pursed lips crowd.

[peacetheonlyway]

9. having met Cindy in person several times...

I assure you, she could care less what a few folks on DU say about her.
your assertions about Cindy are also quite wise, thanks for sticking up for her!

She is the bravest, most kindest person I've ever met. I'm humbled by her actions and only wish I could be standing with her at guantanamo to remove the blight on this american history regarding our state sanctioned torture and taxpayer condoned violation of the geneva conventions.

[eleny]

17. That was a lovely photograph you posted to your Flickr, btw

Cindy has such a kind and gentle demeanor. It says a lot. I chose a long time ago to trust my gut about her after hearing her speak and reading her writings. That's quite a lot to go by, actually.

[peacetheonlyway]

21. thanks eleny...

the way she gave my friend sophia special attention tells me it's not about
the fame for Cindy.

she will be a great US leader one day, I am certain of it!

[wtmusic]

10. agree

What does she have to lose? She's already lost her freedom--she'll spend the rest of her life knowing her son died for nothing. And if 100, 1000, 10,000 did the same thing we'd have a different national focus, wouldn't we? What is she supposed to do, stay home and write letters to her reps? :shrug:

[Cameron27]

12. Well that's where she starts the divide then.

If you like Chavez, then you think her visit was fine and will stick by her; but if you don't, then her personal political choices start to conflict with your own.

She has a right to think Chavez would be a great president of the US, but I have the right to disagree. She's diluting the anti-war message and losing people who would otherwise be supporters.

[peacetheonlyway]

16. just a question , how many peace protests have you gone too?

[Cameron27]

18. I'm a child of the Vietnam war protests

so I have a few dozen under my belt.

[peacetheonlyway]

20. how many iraq war protests?

just curious..

[Cameron27]

23. One

Iraq War protest. My children several.

[peacetheonlyway]

27. how many people did you see wearing suits?

it's a rhetorical question. probably few people wearing the outfits of corporate greed.

cuba used to be a bad place to go, cold war thinking.
lots of programming for our nation to think cuba is a terrible place.

I love the Film "Good Shephard" They make a powerful comment that America so intent
on flexing their muscle around Cuba, in the meanwhile , Russia behind our backs forges
an economic relationship and a military one. Smart russians. but just like the
man in the movie says Russia was nothing but "rust" and broken down things but America
needed Russia to justify it's global hegemony driven by a fascist military industrial complex.

that same complex wants you to think Cuba is a bad place. Ever had a cohiba, great cigars!

anyway, I appreciate your sacrifice on behalf of our country but have to find a way
to disagree vehemently that Cindy or anyone does not have a right to go to Cuba.
or that it takes away from war message.. what is more symbolic of a war gone wrong than torture?
America's violation of the geneva convention. Guantanamo bay makes our War a daily sham.

Cuba is just a country that wants to sell us stuff.. that's all they ever wanted....

harmless little cuba, but we still have to treat them like they are 'bad guys'.

wow. broken down little country. maybe cindy will have an impact and inspire that nation
like she inspires nations all over europe whenever she visits.. she's become a global symbol
of peace and if you asked 10 or 20 people at any peace march, you'd get about a 90% "sure we support her" comment
from folks at an Iraq peace movement. I for one know that she was admired no matter where she
goes at the few marches I"ve been to.

maybe it's envogue for progessives to shoot down cindy, gives them something to talk about, but
not on my watch!

[Cameron27]

28. Don't lecture me on who I should admire and

who I shouldn't.

I am not shooting down Cindy Sheehan. I made my own personal observation that she has diluted the message of protesting the Iraq War, and I'll stand by that.

I'm against the war and republicans in general. I'm not going to debate Cuba, Castro, or Chavez. If that's her political bent, so be it. It's not mine.

[wtmusic]

22. Cindy never said Chavez would be a "great president of the US"

she said she would "rather live under him".

We can figure out where the divide is once we get the facts straight.

[Cameron27]

24. And I disagree.

I wouldn't like to live under Chavez, I don't like living under Bush either.

[wtmusic]

25. And she didn't say that either

She said she would rather live under him. That doesn't mean she thinks Chavez would be a great president or even a good one. Most likely, he wouldn't start a war in which half a million people died for nothing.

We hear what we want to hear.

[Cameron27]

26. Look, she has a right to say whatever

she wants about Chavez, and she obviously thinks enough of him to take a trip to see him. I don't like him, I don't trust him and I wouldn't want him as president, or "live under him" for any reason.

It's another country, and I don't feel like debating how Cindy feels about Chavez; do you see what's happening though? We are NOT talking about protesting the Iraq War! It was an unnecessary distraction, and she has the right to her own political world view and I have a right to mine.

[wtmusic]

29. Well

the Iraq war is part and parcel about George W. Bush. He is responsible. And when the leader of a small nation like Chavez refuses to be cowed and has the courage (yes, courage) to come out and call a spade a spade -- that's something that Cindy and lot of other people can relate to.

Encouraging international sentiment against the war is just as important as protesting here, with the end objective of *stopping* this f*cking thing. IMO Cindy's foreign excursions are extremely relevant and productive, not least importantly because of media attention.

[still_one]

39. and I take the opposite position, because it is the people HERE

that will dictate whether we get out of Iraq or not

[ProudDad]

50. I'd prefer Chavez

In fact...

[roody]

62. If Chavez were the president of Cindy's country

her son would still be alive. And many other sons and daughters.

[still_one]

38. I couldn't agree more

If the message is not very clear and focused, then it will be diverted to issues that don't have anything to do with Iraq

That is exactly what the "stay the course" folks want, a diversion, something that will break any unity among those who want us out of Iraq

Oh, its just the Cubian Americans who won't like it if she goes to Cuba, or just those who don't like Chavez. Pretty soon, enough people are conflicted, that the original focus, which was to get us out of Iraq is forgotten

[ProudDad]

49. Do you have a link

for your allegation that Cindy Sheehan "thinks that Chavez would be a great president of the US"?

I'm very pro-Chavez but that's because I'm a Socialist. I know Chavez would make a lousy president of the US because the president of the US must kiss every corporate ass that comes close to his/her lips...I'm sure Cindy knows this too.

[Cameron27]

54. I deferred to wtmusic's statement

that she said she would rather live under him, instead of "he'd make a great president"; my mistake.

[ProudDad]

55. Hell, so would I

There's a hundred times more hope for the survival of the world as a going concern for mammals in Venezuela under Hugo than there is here under * and his corporate capitalist masters.

[Cameron27]

57. We don't share the same opinion of him.

[Vidar]

44. Well said

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

63. Guantánamo is in Cuba. Where else is she going to go to protest the place? -nt

[still_one]

37. Please show me a poll that indicates that Cindy influenced people on Iraq?

[eleny]

45. I haven't seen any polls giving that information...

Your question implies that she doesn't have an effect on American public opinion about the Iraq invasion and occupation. So then it doesn't matter what she does or says nor where she goes and who she meets with.

In that case I have to wonder why people get into a flap about her.

[madrchsod]

6. there were several flame fests last week

about cindy and the direction her "campaign" has taken over the last few months. i`m not sure what the message is anymore and worse i wonder if she does. does she write the message or is it being written for her? where and why is the money coming from? who is reporting back to the feds? i guess i`m cynical in my old age but i seen this before

[peacetheonlyway]

8. when was last time you went to jail for your ideals?

Cindy has gone to jail for her ideals and suffered much more for her ideals.

cindy is not a rich woman and I assure you no one writes her message.
She does not fly first class, but on buses of peace activist groups that want
her message heard loud and clear.

She is a truth seeking freedom fighter like the people who broke this country away from a British dictatorship.

Most Americans don't recognize her because their daily acceptance of 'status quo' muddles their own thinking so they can continue to spend their hard earned paychecks at walmart endorsing a company that does not even think the health of their employees is worth a few extra pennies out of the CEO's pocket. These are people who don't like to 'rock the boat'. If it is left up to them 10 years from now, the country is COMPLETELY bankrupt, we are still fighting useless wars in the middle East, china/india and japan control the world finance market and dominate economic policy, control and yes, have the money to defend their nations with military buildup that is 'current', versus our technology that seems to keep breaking (see how many blackhawk accidents come from faulty equipment).

bottom line, cynicism is ok if it's founded in truth, but there are no facts to back up the cynic's thesis of Sheehan, only Fox newsbites..

cindy's not afraid of anybody or anything because she is clear in her mission and serves us, the American public who demand an end to the war in the most noble of ways.

I'm grateful to her actions.

and the doer is always better than the critic...

[snowbear]

11. Huh. Now I'm wondering that same thing madrchsod... WHERE does the money come from?

I mean... ..if the money for Cindy and eleven others to travel to Havana is donated..

...I wonder if there were stipulations as to what it was to be spent on?

I confess.. I seriously don't know a lot about Cindy; whether she is wealthy, or what she even did before she lost her son..

The property she bought in Crawford.. I wonder if she sold her property in California to purchase it?

Well... I am confused on where she gets the money, how she spends it, and whether those who donate approve of these trips..

But whatever the case is.. I sure hope she stays safe during her travels throughout Cuba!

I wouldn't want to be doing it..

[wtmusic]

13. She probably gets more than enough here:

http://www.gsfp.org/

[snowbear]

15. Thank you wt!

I've heard of Gold Star families, but hadn't seen that site before ~

[madrchsod]

31. thank you

[peacetheonlyway]

14. maybe the question is better asked

where does Cheney get the money to own that honking Navy House.
Where does Condi get the money to buy those snazzy shoes she was buying in NY when Katrina was hitting
Where does Bush get the money for his whiskey and cocaine habit?
Where does Rove get the money to pay the sex escort service that enter the whitehouse and leave days later.
Where does Rumsfeld get the money to pay his bills after he was shown politely to the door after screwing up every aspect of a failed mission in Iraq

these are better questions to ask.

but if you want to know, I think there are a bunch of organizations that chip in.
Iraq veterans for peace, GoldStar Families, Democrats.com are among a few that have
paid for Cindy's time and good for them. Peace organizations have a right to pay for their
spokesperson to travel and get the message out.

What I know of Cindy is that money means nothing to her. In case you hadn't noticed, the woman lost
her son.

money means nothing when you lose someone you love so dearly....

[snowbear]

19. Thanks muchly.... I'll read through that website!

And you are SOOOoOOo right about Cheney, Bush, Dumbsfield, Rice and the rest....

Great info ~~~

[madrchsod]

32. that`s all i wanted to know, thanks...

[madrchsod]

30. i was just wondering

i have`t read anything about the nuts and bolts of her campaign. if there is more information i would appreciate it. i know she`s done a lot for the anti war movement but i`m not sure of the trip to cuba. hell it may turn out well and i`ll be wrong...it never hurts to question now does it? i found out about informants along time ago when in the sds , the fbi paid me a visit.

[PA Democrat]

47. She used insurance money she received from Casey's death

to purchase the Camp Casey property.

Link here:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/07/30/sheehan_land_purchase_for_protests_irks_texas_town/

Also, I believe she plans to donate the property for a park, after Bush leaves office.

Edited because I said Camp Crawford instead of Camp Casey.

[ProudDad]

51. I would

It's easy to go to Cuba. Just fly to Canada or Mexico and get on a plane. They don't stamp your passport -- they know what an asshole the U.S. is.

Fuck the U.S. -- they can't tell you where you can visit...

It's a beautiful country with happy, peaceful people (except the poor bastards involved the tourist trade). They are also nearly all deeply Socialist. Viva Socialismo...

Those assholes from Miami are in for a rather rude awakening after Fidel dies and the come over thinking they can take up where their corrupt fuck parents left off in '59... It's not their father's Cuba anymore...

[still_one]

40. your point is proven by this thread alone

Instead of uniting behind getting us out of Iraq, it divides

People can get emotional, and say what they want, but that is reality

[fuzzyball]

33. For me Cindy went over the top when she shouted out the press

conference the newly elected democratic leaders were
having. My heart goes out to anyone who has lost sons or
daughters in wars, especially reckless wars, but there has
to be some modicum of behavior and respect protocol.

[David__77]

35. Yes, because "respect" and "decorum" are more important than dead Iraqi babies.

...

[fuzzyball]

43. The cold hard truth is Cindy is totally powerless to stop anything!

In fact her tactics are driving away her followers. The
best she can do is protest in peace instead of rowdy.
That is how Gandhi earned universal respect.

[eleny]

48. An activist can only keep our eyes on the issues

She has been successful since she works to keep people thinking about Iraq.

Btw, her methods haven't driven me away from her one inch. If you've been driven away, you're still talking about her here thus helping to keep the issues in the spotlight. Thanks for that!

[ProudDad]

52. Please check your history

1) Gandhi was VERY rowdy. It was the
British occupation whose "peace" was
disturbed. Don't make the mistake of
confusing non-violence with docility.

2) Gandhi didn't have "universal respect"
otherwise how do you explain his assassination?
(Just a gratuitous point - not relevant to
this discussion)

3) No substantive change has occurred without
a great deal of "rowdy agitation". It's
the polite, docile, quiet folks who maintain
the status-quo...

[David__77]

34. If the US gov't can violate Cuban sovereignty with "Gitmo," why shouldn't she go invited?

What's wrong with her going to Cuba for a just cause while the US government runs a concentration camp on CUBAN soil, violating its integrity? I would add that if Americans do NOT go to protest this torture camp, it only shows the moral depravity of Americans in general. I say "Cindy speaks for me!"

[justinaforjustice]

41. Why Are US Prisoners in Cuba?

Cindy Sheehan is in Cuba to protest the torture and illegal imprisonment of men who are just like her son -- the victims of U.S. imperialism. But the critical question is why is the United States in Cuba, occupying a hefty piece of another nation's territory in violation of the provisions of our treaty with that country?

The U.S. was given the right to maintain a coal-refilling depot and navel station in Cuba in 1903 "and for no other purpose". In 1934, that agreement was turned into a treaty, but the terms were the same. The U.S. was permitted to lease, for $2000 a year in gold coin, land to put a coal-refueling depot and a naval station on Cuba soil "and for no other purpose".

Our U.S. fleet is no longer fueled by coal, so we no longer have any justification for being on Cuban soil We are in violation of the 1934 treaty by building a prison there, manned by Army, Air Force and Marines. Can you imagine the insecurity the Cuban people must feel by having a large, well armed contingent of the U.S. military, separated from them by only a cyclone fence?

When, during the invasion of Afghanistan, the Bush administration announced that it would be housing its Afghani prisoners in Guantanamo, I immediately got chills, sensing that they were putting them there -- and not in the middle of Kansas -- to deprive them of access to U.S. courts and the U.S. press. That is just how it has turned out.

Just as we are illegally occupying Iraq, we are illegally occupying part of the Cuban island. Cuba is very brave indeed to allow the anti-Guantanamo prison protesters to assemble in their capitol and to march to the gates of Guantanamo. Cindy Sheehan is very brave to be willing to go to jail to stop the killing of U.S. soldiers and to risk $10,000 fines, if not jail, to protest the illegal torture and imprisonment of "detainees" without proper trials or even without legal charges against them.

Our Middle Eastern prisoners shouldn't be in Guantanamo and neither should our U.S. military. Cindy Sheehan should be thanked for focusing national attention on yet more of Bush's illegalities.

[David__77]

42. Exactly.

Guantanamo is an insult to dignity of the Cuban nation.

[Cameron27]

46. Will Cindy respond to the families of

political prisoners in Cuba?

HAVANA: Wives and mothers of Cuban political prisoners urged U.S. peace activist Cindy Sheehan on Monday to visit the island's state-run jails during her weeklong trip to Cuba to call for the closure of the U.S.-operated Guantanamo prison.
The Ladies in White, a group of women demanding the release of their loved ones, described what they called "inhumane" conditions at Cuba's prisons in a letter for Sheehan that was sent to international reporters. The group said it was trying to get a copy to Sheehan as well.

"At the same time you and your noble followers fight for the closure of the U.S. prison at the Guantanamo naval base ... just a few miles away at the provincial Guantanamo prison in Cuban territory, peaceful and defenseless political prisoners suffer inhumane conditions, (living) without potable water and with poor nutrition, deficient medical assistance, insects and rodents, limited visits and precarious communication," the letter said.

She'll be atttending a human rights conference, so do you think she should address these abuses?

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/01/08/news/CB-GEN-Cuba-Ladies-in-White.php

[ProudDad]

53. Now THERE'S a distraction

I'm sure they're better treated than those folks in Gitmo.

At least they know the charges against them, are probably guilty and know when they're going to be released. That's a HELL of a lot more than those poor bastards in GITMO know...

Also, you want to get into a discussion of the many thousands of political prisoners in U.S. jails and prisons??? (actually, I consider everyone imprisoned by the phony "war on drugs" to be a political prisoner -- that would make about 1 MILLION!!!)..

on edit: Hmmm, 294 political prisoners in Cuba -- one per 39,115 of Cuba's population. vs. 1 in 3000 in the U.S. Doesn't say much for the U.S. -- says volumes for Cuba's patience...

[Cameron27]

56. These prisoners

are human rights defenders, independent journalists, and librarians with sentences of up to 28 years in prison. The organization, Ladies in White, that's asking for Cindy's support, received the Sakarov award by the European parliament.

[ProudDad]

58. There are 5 Cubans

sentenced to life in prison in the U.S. who were just defending their country against U.S. condoned terrorists in Miami.

http://www.freethefive.org/

There is injustice everywhere...there's just more of it in the U.S. combined with massive hypocrisy.

It's the hypocrisy I hate...

[Cameron27]

59. Could I have a link to that please.

Not being snarky, I just don't know anything about it.

[Cameron27]

60. Thanks, I remember it now,

but didn't know all the details.

There's a pretty good summary here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/02/AR2006060201780.html

I think they deserve a new hearing, and it looks like they're going to get one. Justified espionage? Maybe, I just don't know. The anti-Castro groups in Miami certainly didn't have a right to disperse flyers over Cuba.

Fascinating situation though, thanks for the link.

[ProudDad]

84. No problem

I suspect it's not espionage when the spying is against a private organization of terrorists...

[Say_What]

86. You really believe that bullshit?? Even American Librarians see through that crap...

Anyone who knows anything about Cuba is very familiar with the bought-and-paid for US shills posing as "human rights defenders, independent journalists, and librarians". C'mon, do some homework.

<clips>

...As is already public knowledge, the so called “independent librarians,” together with those who call themselves “independent journalists,” “independent economists," “independent unions,” “independent teachers,” etc., are one of the United States government’s operative methods to subvert the Cuban Revolution. One of the goals of the campaign inherent in those libraries has been, and is, to transmit a distorted image around the world of the reality of the Cuban state's public policies regarding reading, publishing and the diverse types of libraries that help everybody. The “independent” concept is rooted in the Helms-Burton law, signed by President Bill Clinton in 1996. It is the legal outline of encouraging and legitimizing forms of subversive action in Cuba through “independent groups.” In this fashion, section 109 stipulates in subsection a) of that law the following:

“<…> the President is authorized to furnish assistance and provide other support for individuals and independent nongovernmental organizations to support democracy-building efforts for Cuba, including the following:
(1) Published and informational matter, such as books, videos, and cassettes, on transitions to democracy, human rights, and market economies, to be made available to independent democratic groups in Cuba. <…> the President should provide not less than $5,000,000 of the voluntary contributions of the United States <…>”

Other evidence about the subject in question is found in legislative documents such as the Cuban Solidarity Act of 2001, passed by the U.S. Senate, whose very purposes are explicit: “to challenge… the Castro regime” by means of “increased, decisive support to the democratic opposition in Cuba” and through “specific measures” with the purpose “to undermine the deliberate policies of the Cuban government” and as such to generate the “political and economic change” in that country through the creation and consolidation of “independent nongovernmental organizations,” among which include “the groups committed to the political and spiritual liberation of the Cuban people.” In that law the term “independent non-governmental organization” means an organization which is designated by the Department of State to be a charity or non-profit organization which "is not an agency or instrument of the Cuban government,” and which “does not participate in the benefits of the Cuban government.” Thus, in Section 6 of the Cuban Solidarity Act of 2001, which deals with the “availability of funds for assistance to victims of political repression in Cuba,” a wide-range of independent non-governmental organizations (NGOs) is considered. Therefore in that section all “independent” entities are included, including item no.4 the “independent libraries.” In this way, the adjective “independent” is clearly associated with a political-subversive plan, which is aimed at destabilizing the Cuban government, and consequently, directed at destroying the Revolution. From this perspective, the “independent libraries” are a type of ideological beachhead in the framework of a low-intensity war, inasmuch as they respond to the political-ideological operations included in a political subversive project outside of the U.S. against Cuba. This allows us to emphasize the idea that “independent” in general and the “independent libraries” in particular, are mechanisms of the U. S. to harass the Caribbean island and to attack its image, sovereignty, independence, and self-determination at the expense of a universal right such as freedom of access to information.

http://www.pitt.edu/~ttwiss/irtf/cuba.bibliography.html

[Judi Lynn]

88. Tremendous inforrnation. I hope DU'ers unacquainted with this peculiar method

of sabotage will read it carefully and think about it. Your tax dollars at work!

Here's another one I absolutely relish. DU'ers who have read about the "independent librarians" will have undoubtedly run across the name of one very determined man who has conducted an all out assaualt on Cuba through the "independent library" system. You've probably read article after article concerning him and his obsessive effort to lay out a real smokescreen of pure lies to dupe the unsuspecting.

On edit: Robert Kent is also mentioned in your (Say_What's) link immediately above:

June 18 / 19, 2005

Librarians as Spooks?
The Scheme to Infiltrate Cuba's Libraries
By DIANA BARAHONA

The U.S. has been pretty successful at mobilizing world opinion against Cuba since the late 1980s. Emboldened by the fall of the Soviet Union it has gone to considerable trouble and expense to bring down the revolution that refuses to be defeated a scant 90 miles off the empire's shore. Part of this effort has involved creating an artificial opposition movement on the island and enlisting liberal organizations and intellectuals to support it. But U.S. librarians, targeted by name in the State Department's 400-page destabilization blueprint, the Report to the President of the Commission for Assistance to a Free Cuba, not only refuse to play the game but are trying to assist their Cuban colleagues to improve their libraries.

The rent-an-opposition has several components: independent trade union groups, independent journalists, independent political parties and independent libraries ­ all paid and directed by the U.S. Interests Section. They are also composed of the same people; one person may be an independent press agency, a political party, and run a library out of his house. The depth of U.S.-style "civil society" was evident May 20-21 at the Congress of the Cuban Dissident Movement in Havana. Financed with a special congressional grant of $6 million and featuring a videotaped greeting from Bush himself, this gathering was supposed to bring together 360 dissident organizations; it barely drew 100 people.

Cuba not only has libraries, it has a lot of them ­ 400 to be precise, plus 6,000 school libraries. So why has the State Department created a network of independent libraries there? What exactly is an independent library? Rhonda L. Neugebauer and Larry Oberg, both university librarians, went to Cuba to meet with colleagues and study the library system in 2000. But they also visited the so-called independent libraries run out of people's houses. What they found were carefully-chosen drop-off and contact points for personnel from the U.S. Interests Section and others, who visited them on a regular basis to deliver materials and money. They also discovered that by keeping bookshelves with these materials in their homes, the "librarians" qualified for a monthly stipend ­ "for services rendered," as one of them put it. They found no evidence that anyone ever checked out a book, and when they enquired of neighbors, nobody even seemed to know the libraries were there.

But the story doesn't end there. For years Neugebauer has been trying to set up a program of exchange and assistance to Cuba's real libraries, which not only lack funding for books and journals, but also for copying and computer equipment, and phone lines and technical support for internet access. But she and others are confronting a heated campaign to get the American Librarian Association and related organizations to condemn the Cuban government and support the independent libraries, waged by a New York librarian named Robert Kent.
(snip)



"Robert Emmet" and Aleida Godinez.

"Emmet" didn't bring books or spend any time studying libraries; "He put a lot of emphasis on the role of the independent press," says Godínez. "He said absolutely nothing about the so-called independent libraries. He barely mentioned to me that he was a librarian."

Instead, Kent arrived with surveillance equipment ("a camera, a shortwave radio, a 10-band transmitter and receiver, and a watch, a Cassio brand") and lots of cash, which he passed out to various dissidents. But the most disturbing aspect of the librarian's visit was that he allegedly asked Godinez to help him ­ with drawings and photographs ­ map out the security measures at the home of Vice President of the Council of State, Carlos Lage Davila. Godínez says he gave her $100 for film for that purpose. Understandably, "Emmet" was detained and expelled for espionage.
(snip/...)

http://www.counterpunch.org/barahona06182005.html

[Judi Lynn]

89. This is unbelievable! I just read further in the link I posted right after yours,

and the names of Robert Menard (Reporters Without Borders) and Frank Calzon (Freedom House) came up after Robert Kent's. Holy smokes. Small world, isn't it? We were just talking about Calzon on another thread last week, with someone else who was trying to use him as a legitimate source.

This is TOOO rich. I need to go lie down. Here's the paragraph:

As if this weren't weird enough, 1999 is the same year the founder of Reporters Without Borders, Robert Menard, went to Cuba, and the behavior of the two men was identical. Both came as friends of Calzón and both arrived with cash and electronic equipment and sought out dissidents. Both asked questions unrelated to the ostensible purpose of their trips: Menard asked his contact, also an undercover agent, if he knew of any "disgruntled" people in the Cuban armed forces. Kent says his numerous trips to Cuba were financed by Freedom House, a Miami-based outfit funded by the State Department.
(snip)

This "extremist faction" Kent routinely lambasts includes Neugebauer, who says Kent has traveled to Europe and enlisted support from individuals in former communist bloc countries, including some library associations. Kent also finds the time to write press releases full of wild disinformation and has gained favorable coverage for his cause, putting the ALA on the defensive; Nat Hentoff of The Village Voice has become one of his attack dogs against the organization.

For those who appreciate the art of propaganda, the reason Kent gives for refusing to meet with Cuban librarians and virulently opposing professional exchanges is that they are working for the "state." It seems to have escaped him that at his job for the New York Public Library he also works for the state, as do most of his colleagues. And given his possession of a fake passport and shady activities and associations, "Agent Emmet" is undoubtedly a lot closer to the "state" than any Havana bibliotecario.
(snip)

[ProudDad]

87. Strange Bedfellows Department

http://www.canf.org/noticias-CANF/2005-oct-26-press-release-ladies-in-white.htm

The right-wing terrorists in Miami

[Judi Lynn]

61. Allow me to post some links I also posted in response to the same

claims made in G.D. last night. If people took the time to listen more, and to research more, they wouldn't keep spreading disinformation, like the tragic plight of the "dissidents!"

You can be sure there have NEVER been any hints of torture to these U.S. financed jackasses!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cuban democracy funds spent on Game Boys

Richard Luscombe in Miami
Wednesday November 15, 2006
Guardian Unlimited

The PlayStation: an unexpected tool for promoting democracy?

Cuban dissidents who were given millions of dollars by the US government to support democracy in their homeland instead blew money on computer games, cashmere sweaters, crabmeat and expensive chocolates, which were then sent to the island.

A scathing congressional audit of democracy-assistance programmes found “questionable expenditure” by several groups funded by Washington in opposition to President Fidel Castro’s rule on the communist Caribbean island.

The Miami-based Acción Democrática Cubana spent money on a chainsaw, Nintendo Game Boys and Sony PlayStations, mountain bikes, leather coats and Godiva chocolates, which the group says were all sent to Cuba. “These people are going hungry. They never get any chocolate there,” Juan Carlos Acosta, the group’s executive director, told the Miami Herald.

He also defended the purchase of a chainsaw he said he needed to cut a tree that had blocked access to his office in a hurricane, and said that the leather jackets and cashmere sweaters were bought in a sale. “They think it’s not cold there,” Mr Acosta said. “At $30 {£16} it’s a bargain because cashmere is expensive. They were asking for sweaters.”
(snip/...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cuba/story/0,,1948445,00.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It looks as if Cindy Sheehan simply hasn't had the time to do any kind of research on who these people are before destiny thrust her into the spotlight. I'm sure too many people are coming at her with too many ideas. She needs to find out more about these people.

As the CIA reported long ago, concerning "dissidents:"

There is no indication, U.S. officials say, of any nascent rebellion about to spill into the streets, no great outpouring of support for human rights activists in prison. In fact, there are fewer than 100 activists on the island and a support group of perhaps 1,000 more, according to U.S. officials.
(snip)

http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ019.html

This admission from them is significant, considering all they've done to destabilize and wreck the Cuban government in the last 45 years!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As the U.S. Congress regularly allots millions of dollars to be given to these very few people,and their engagement in actions contrary to Cuban law, and also contrary to OUR laws, were these people taking money from other governments to work against ours, UTTERLY illegal here for U.S. citizens, they are aware they are asking for trouble. Real dissidents, like Oswaldo Payá, whom is wildly disliked by the venemous Cuban right-wingers in Miami, are NOT seen as lawbreakers by the Cuban government:

Further to the strategy declared in Colin Powell’s report « Commission for Assistance to a Free Cuba», whose aim is to lead the Cuban revolutionary process towards its complete annihilation, the campaign of misinformation against the Caribbean island,launched by the Bush administration and the Cuban extreme right in Florida, has spread widely into Europe. (1) In fact, from 17th to 19th September 2004 the « International Summit for Democracy in Cuba » was held in Prague in the Czech Republic, under the auspices of the International Committee for Democracy in Cuba, which was founded by the former Czech president Vaclav Havel.(2) This meeting, the propaganda impact of which is beyond doubt, marked a new phase in the American media war against Cuba, with the collusion of the European Union. (3)

Under Washington’s remote control, the meeting brought together several right and extreme right politicians on the International Committee for Democracy in Cuba, such as Vaclav Havel, former Spanish prime minister José Maria Aznar, and Madeleine Albright, former Secretary of State under the Clinton administration. They are, for the most part, closely linked to the White House and the fascist wing of the Cuban exiles which is deeply implicated in international terrorism. (4)

The Czech government, which has shown its loyalty to the United States on many occasions, was the sponsor of the meeting. A unit for « promoting the transition » in Cuba has even been recently created within the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, led by Gabriela Dlouha. (5). As early as 1999, at the request of Madeleine Albright, herself of Czech origin, the Czech authorities had tabled a resolution against Cuba during the meeting of the Commission for Human Rights in Geneva. Martin Palous, Czech ambassador to the USA, was delighted over the « role played » by his government concerning « the Cuban question ». Cuban-born Frank Calzon, a former CIA agent and director of the Center for a Free Cuba (an organisation controlled by the Cuban radical right), expressed his approval of the interventionist attitude of the Czech Republic. (6)

During this meeting on the theme of « Cuban dissidence », Vaclav Havel virulently condemned the arrests of 75 people by the Cuban authorities in March 2003. (7) In taking refuge behind the usual rhetoric about human rights, which crumbles at once when confronted by the facts, Mr Havel carefully evaded the details of this affair. He confined himself to calling for the release of Raúl Rivero, sentenced for conspiracy, subversive activities and collaboration with the setting up of the Washington blockade. In fact, on the payroll of the US government – a foreign enemy power which has been harassing Cuba since 1959 – Rivero participated in setting up the conditions necessary for destabilising Cuba, in flagrant violation of the laws of his country. (8).
(snip)

In fact, the invective against Havana by Oswaldo Payá, an occasional « dissident » and promoter of the hyped-up Varela Project (whose aim is to reinstate a capitalist economy in Cuba and which was strongly criticised by the Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry) (14), has a greater impact than any supposed poem against the Cuban president. (15) However, Mr Payá enjoys freedom of movement and travels abroad regularly, because, unlike his imprisoned associates, he has always refused the financial support offered by Washington and consequently has not broken Cuban law.
(snip/...)

~~~~ link ~~~~

[Cameron27]

64. Are you saying that the Sakharov Prize

is contaminated with US money? The Ladies in White received this award for their actions.

Just like Andrei Sakharov, the previous winners of the prize which bears his name have demonstrated just how much courage, patience and inner strength is needed to defend human rights and campaign for their universal recognition. Almost all have paid dearly for their commitment to defending human dignity, and many have faced persecution, loss of personal freedom or exile.

1988 NELSON ROLIHLAHLA MANDELA and ANATOLI MARCHENKO (posthumously)
1989 ALEXANDER DUBCEK
1990 AUNG SAN SUU KYI
1991 ADEM DEMAÇI
1992 LAS MADRES DE LA PLAZA DE MAYO
1993 OSLOBODJENJE
1994 TASLIMA NASREEN
1995 LEYLA ZANA
1996 WEI JINGSHENG
1997 SALIMA GHEZALI
1998 IBRAHIM RUGOVA
1999 XANANA GUSMÃO
2000 ¡BASTA YA!
2001 IZZAT GHAZZAWI, NURIT PELED-ELHANAN and DOM ZACARIAS KAMWENHO
2002 OSWALDO JOSÉ PAYÁ SARDIÑAS
2003 UN SECRETARY GENERAL, KOFI ANNAN AND ALL THE STAFF OF THE UNITED NATIONS
2004 BELARUSIAN ASSOCIATION OF JOURNALISTS
2005 LADIES IN WHITE
2005 HAUWA IBRAHIM
2005 REPORTERS WITHOUT FRONTIERS

Forgot the link:


http://www.europarl.europa.eu/comparl/afet/droi/sakharov/inspiration_en.htm

[Judi Lynn]

66. Right-wing U.S. money has controlled public perception through propaganda on Cuba

for over 40 years. You'd know that if you ever took the time to read on it, or even kept your ears open.

Concerning Reporters Without Borders, one article to scan. You need to take the time to start doing your homework, just like the rest of us:

Reporters Without Borders Unmasked
by Diana Barahona
May 27, 2005

When Robert Menard founded Reporters Without Borders twenty years ago, he gave his group a name which evokes another French organization respected worldwide for its humanitarian work and which maintains a strict neutrality in political conflicts ­ Doctors Without Borders. But RSF (French acronym) has been anything but nonpartisan and objective in its approach to Latin America and to Cuba in particular.

From the beginning, RSF has made Cuba its No. 1 target. Allegedly founded to advocate freedom of the press around the world and to help journalists under attack, the organization has called Cuba "the world's biggest prison for journalists." It even gives the country a lower ranking on its press freedom index than countries where journalists routinely have been killed, such as Colombia, Peru and Mexico. RSF has waged campaigns aimed at discouraging Europeans from vacationing in Cuba and the European Union from doing business there ­ its only campaigns worldwide intended to damage a country's economy.

The above is not a matter of chance because it turns out that RSF is on the payroll of the U.S. State Department and has close ties to Helms-Burton-funded Cuban exile groups.

As a majority of members of Congress work toward normalizing trade and travel with Cuba, the extremist anti-Castro groups that have dictated U.S. Cuba policy for 40 years continue working tirelessly to maintain an economic stranglehold on the island. Their support for RSF is part of this overall strategy.
(snip/...)

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=7951

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why on earth do you think the right-wing faction in Congress has always agitated against Cuba, up to and including millions of money poured out to a small number of paid dissidents? They are following the obsession of the most virulent right-wing psychopaths in the country, like Tom Delay and Jesse Helms (Helms-Burton Act, Roger Noriega), backed by a group of violent right-wing "exiles" in Miami. You might want to challenge me about their history of violence all over the world, bombing, murdering not only Cubans, but diplomats and others who merely favor moderation and dialogue, since you apparently have mysteriously avoided hearing a word about it.

U.S. ups funds for Cuba opposition
author: —Cheryl LaBash
Published Apr 6, 2005 4:16 PM

If you live in the United States, it might be harder to pay your heating bill or for your medicine and doctor's visits; maybe your tuition assistance for school is gone for next term. The new Bush budget proposes to cut 150 human-needs programs. Apparently, though, some special-interest groups in south Florida are having no problem getting federal aid. All they have to do is violate Cuban sovereignty.

While U.S. travelers face harassment and fines for visiting and spending money in Cuba, three separate U.S. government agencies illegally channel funds into Cuba. Since 1996 the U.S. Agency for International Development has spent more than $35 million. The National Endowment for Democracy paid $4.9 million since 2000 and proposes to double the annual sum to $2 million in the next fiscal year. The third organization is a new one, the President's Commission for Assistance to a Free Cuba, with a proposed budget of $29 million. (Gary Marx, Chicago Tribune, Feb. 22)

One U.S.-funded agency fronting as an online news agency spends $3,000 per month paying for freelance articles from inside Cuba. Dollars and propaganda are distributed through the U.S. Interest Section in Havana, in an effort to provoke a justifiable response from Cuba. Yet when these violators of Cuban law, like the 73 self-styled "dissidents," are charged, tried and convicted in Cuban courts it is portrayed in the U.S. media as a "human-rights violation."

The U.S. slander campaign is failing. At the 61st Session of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights, held March 14-April 22 in Geneva, no amount of imperialist bullying could force even a single other country to present a resolution against Cuba-U.S. had to do it alone.

Former FBI chief admits Cuban Five were not a threat

The International Free the Five Committees, the government and people of Cuba and the families of these political prisoners held in the United States have for seven years demanded that they be freed. The imprisoned five—Antonio Guerrero, Fernando González, Gerardo Hernández, Ramon Labañino and Rene González—were jailed for trying to stop U.S.-based espionage against Cuba.
(snip/...)

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/04/315340.shtml

[Cameron27]

70. I surely think that the

European Parliament has enough sense to thoroughly investigate each of the nominees for the Sakharov Prize. I find it hard to believe that they're corrupted by the bias you're describing.

There are extreme points of view about a lot of issues. I think you do your own research on sites that show their own bias. I'd need a whole lot more evidence than what you've posted, to lead me to believe that this prestigious award has been corrupted by right-wing anti-Castro forces.

[Judi Lynn]

73. Perhaps you recognize you don't get the picture.

The right-wing pro-Batista reactionary "exiles" who have controlled U.S./Cuba policy for years have done it through the cooperation of right-wing extremists, and a few corruptible others in search of campaign funding in the House of Representatives and the Senate.

There's no question about that. One only has to check the campaign contributions by the groups to the members, and follow the legislation which has taken place, or, with right-wing control been PROHIBITED from taking place, to grasp this.

You are the one who could use some time researching. Use the entire internet, don't feel a need to limit yourself to any point of view.

The facts ARE the facts. I've been researching Cuba since 2000, and it's a shame I didn't know enough to read more earlier.

I research on sites that show their own bias? Is that right? What gives you the right to make that obnoxious assertion? That would be limiting, wouldn't it?

Are you saying that, after researching FOR YEARS, and wading through opinions, facts, and lies, and a lot of history, and coming to a conclusion, your conclusion is BIASED?

Be my guest and start doing your own research. Show us how it's done.

[Cameron27]

75. I'm saying that I don't think

that the European Parliament would be subject to the bias that you're proposing.

I agree that the anti-Castro forces have been actively promoting their own distortion of facts for a long time. I don't think it affected the awarding of the Sakharov Prize.

That's all that I'm saying.

[Cameron27]

65. Amnesty International

Cuba: 71 prisoners of conscience continue to be imprisoned for expressing their ideas
The limitation of freedom of expression, association and assembly are serious human rights violations. They must stop immediately, said Amnesty International today as it published a report on prisoners of conscience in Cuba on the 2nd anniversary of the 2003 crackdown.

Amnesty International currently recognizes 71 prisoners of conscience imprisoned across the island for peacefully expressing their beliefs and opinions and calls on the Cuban government to immediately and unconditionally release all of them.

In Cuba, exercising freedom of expression is criminalized. This includes carrying out work with human rights organizations, publishing articles, giving interviews in media said to be critical to the Cuban government or contacting US officials in Cuba or members of the Cuban exile community in the USA is criminalized.

"All you have to do in Cuba to be imprisoned for months or even years is to disagree with the authorities," said Amnesty International.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250052005?open&of=ENG-CUB

[Judi Lynn]

67. Right. There are Cuban "exile" members in A-I, helping thoughtfully to influence their

perceptions, guide their ship. Our right-wing politicians are knee-deep in "exiles" who have worked as CIA people and infested the U.S. government for ages. Cuban right-wing "exiles" have been active, and interwoven in extremist U.S. machinations since well before they lended a grubby hand as "plumbers" in the Watergate debacle.

It has often been said that Amnesty International’s agenda tends to fit nicely with the political needs of the United States and Great Britain. Around the world, supporters of the Nicaraguan people’s struggle for self-determination were outraged by the timing of a 1986 Amnesty report critical of the Sandinista government, which helped Reagan push another Contra Aid appropriation through a reluctant congress, at exactly the moment when the anti-Contra movement was beginning to get serious political traction.

With regard to South Africa’s apartheid regime, AI was critical of the human rights record of the South African government. However, as you will see below, AI never condemned apartheid per se. By the time Amnesty endorsed the Hill & Knowlton nursery tale concerning Kuwaiti infants pulled from incubators by Iraqi soldiers, many otherwise sympathetic observers of Amnesty’s work became increasingly alarmed.

More than a decade of grassroots organization within Amnesty’s membership base finally succeeded just two years ago in moving the organization to take a position critical of the genocidal sanctions against the people of Iraq, sanctions which have killed approximately a million and a half Iraqis, one third of them children. According to Dr. Boyle, this was political, and it clearly served the interests of the U.S. and Britain, the two governments on the Security Council preventing the lifting of the sanctions.
(snip/...)

http://student.cs.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/articles/article0004573.html

[Cameron27]

69. I wouldn't take the word

of someone so heavily biased as Dr. Francis Boyle.

Any other links about Amnesty International?

[Judi Lynn]

71. I think I'll stick with Dr. Francis Boyle, thanks.

Dr. Francis Boyle
Read Professor Boyle's 2001 Lecture.

Professor Francis Boyle is a distinguished author, lecturer, international lawyer, and advocate of human rights.

His legal career has included serving as attorney for victims of human rights abusers in Bosnia, and as legal advisor for the Palestinian Liberation Organization on the creation of the State of Palestine as well as legal advisor for the Palestinian Delegation to the Middle East Peace Negotiations. In 1991, he submitted a petition to the United Nations on behalf of the children of Iraq, charging then President George Bush with crimes against humanity. He served as General Agent for the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina before the International Court of Justice, and advised President Izetbegovic and members of the collective Bosnian presidency during the Owen-Stolenberg negotiations.

Professor Boyle has been internationally recognized for his contributions to international law. The Chechen Republic of Ichkeria has appointed him Attorney of Record, and holds citizenship in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Ireland, and the United States. He received the 1997 Dare to Speak Out Award for the Council of National Interest.

He is the author of a number of publications including World Politics and International Law, Defending Civil Resistance Under International Law, and The Future of International Law and American Foreign Policy.

Francis Boyle is currently a Professor at the University of Illinois College of Law in Champaign.
(snip/)

http://www.ucalgary.ca/md/PARHAD/lecturer-boyle.htm

http://www.haefely.info/gesellschaft+politik_unobserver/faboyle%5Bbig%5D.jpg

Not going to spend a lot of time running back and forth getting links for you to evaluate. The information I have provided is factual.

[Cameron27]

72. I agree Judi Lynn

This really isn't the thread to discuss this, but I do appreciate the links you've provided. Dr. Boyle appears to be a controversial figure, with leanings towards fundamentalist Islam.

Thanks for the chat though, maybe another time.

[Judi Lynn]

74. Pointing out atrocities deliberately ignored is favoring fundamentalist Islam?

Somewhat odd assertion.

You don't get to devaluate the guy. It's not going to work.

[Cameron27]

76. I get to have my own opinion of him.

He was a lawyer for the PLO. He worked to prevent a war between the United States and Libya in the 1990s, and speaks fondly of his interactions with Muammar al-Qaddafi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Boyle

[Judi Lynn]

77. Put another way, how do you disprove what he said which was posted in my link?

Are the facts real or invented?

That's the issue.

[Cameron27]

78. You have a link

to this:

"Dennis Bernstein and Dr. Francis Boyle Discuss the Politics of Human Rights"

There's no third sourcing, and no footnotes to check on what's being talked about.

I'm not going further with you on this, I don't have the time to research what Boyle discussed. Whatever you think about Amnesty International, the Sakharov Prize was awarded to the Ladies in White. It's an award given by the European Parliament, and there's no evidence in anything you've presented that leads me to believe they have a bias, or are participating in a conspiracy against Fidel Castro.

Have a pleasant evening.

[Judi Lynn]

79. Sorry I don't have more time tonight to give to searching,but here's something interesting:

The complicity of the European Union with the US hostile policy was confirmed when they granted the Sakharov Award to the “Ladies in White” <13>, and by the declarations of the new American representative in Havana. In effect, Mr. Parmly congratulated the European Parliament members that “really showed courage and insight at choosing the Ladies in White ”. He added that the differences with Europe as to the economic sanctions were only of a “tactical” nature, as Washington and Brussels share the same view as to the “direction that Cuba should follow <14>”.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=9641

As is documented, the 75 "dissidents" who were imprisoned several years ago were foumd to be on the U.S. payroll, a flagrant violation of Cuban law. It's also a violation here if the same situation existed involving U.S. citizens. The right-wing leaders in Congress have been illegally financing a handful of Cubans to work to sabotage their own government.

The information used to nail them came out in their trial when government agents, who had infiltrated their ranks, and worked with them, one, a secretary working for Marta Beatriz Roque, shown here, and also with a U.S. official at the Interests Section,



provided orignal paperwork showing traffic of U.S. financing going back for years. It was an iron-clad testimony, and that's why the woman went to jail for a time, then was released when she claimed health problems.

You're not going to be able to shout down the truth about these "dissidents." It has been common knowledge with too many people for too many years. The organization of protesters, Ladies in White, is no more legitimate, no matter WHO gives them what prize. It IS a political move, and that's the end of it.

[Cameron27]

80. This may be the end of it for you

but don't attempt to tell me what my motives are, what I should believe, or when to stop speaking.

I'll continue to research this beyond zmag, and beyond whatever you think is common knowledge. Before I discredit, what's COMMONLY referred to as a prestigious award for human rights, I'll have more references than zmag.org.

[Cameron27]

81. I've really had enough,

talk to somebody else.

Goodnight.

[Judi Lynn]

82. Harsh words!

+ SOME +

[Cameron27]

83. I know,

sorry, I've got a migraine eating my left eye right now.

Didn't mean to come off that way.

Peace.

[ProudDad]

85. No politicians in the E.U. eh?

You don't think they could be just parroting the generic corporate capitalist anti-Cuba party line?

On Edit:

Does the Cuban government make some mistakes at times? Yup. Are they a little paranoid about folks in the pay of the U.S. government and a little quick to lock them up when discovered? Occasionally yes and occasionally they exercise an amazing degree of patience and restraint. A lot depends on how heavy the bully to the north is leaning on them. This current bully *, is leaning on them pretty damn heavily.

I hope you feel better soon... I wouldn't wish a migraine on anyone... :hi:

[Cameron27]

90. Hey, thanks.

I ended up having to take 2 percodans, got loopy, and fell asleep.

Thanks for all the links, it's going to take time to read through them all, but I appreciate it.