Congressman Ford (D tenn) discusses the south

[windansea]

Newsweek Dec. 29/Jan. 5 issue - Congressman Ford of Tennessee is a rising Democratic star. He talked with Weston Kosova about his party's challenges in the South.


What does this mean for Democratic candidates wanting to capture the Republican-held Red States?

Some Democrats up North seem to think that all Southern voters care about are cultural issues—God, guns and abortion. It's wrong to assume that Southern voters are not interested in the economy or foreign policy or ways to make our communities stronger. It's as misleading as saying everyone up North sits around all day sipping lattes.

So how can Democrats show that they aren't out of step with Southern concerns?

To start, we should stop playing to stereotypes. That's why Governor Dean's comment about Confederate flags and pickup trucks wasn't good. The Democrat who doesn't complain about President Bush all the time, but instead speaks convincingly about schools and hospitals and how to make them better, he will do fine.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3761855/

[windansea]

1. ouch! n/t

[sistersofmercy]

2. The entire interview is great imo.

I have the Newsweek issue.

[windansea]

3. Ford sounds like a good guy n/t

[bearfartinthewoods]

9. someday, we'll get to vote for him for prez

i mean if we still have primaries and stuff.......

[ClarkGraham2004]

10. Yes, after he serves as Vice President during Clark's second term

[oasis]

14. (1)Ford's working with the Kerry campaign. (2) Dems need a woman next time

[TrueAmerican]

16. Why do Dems need a woman next time?

I don't vote because of race or sex. I have voted for the best candidate. If it is a woman, so be it. If not, so be it.

[oasis]

26. It's time a woman was one heartbeat away from the presidency. Most women

will tell you that and they vote the Dem ticket in great numbers.

Many to choose from: Mary Landrieu, Marcy Kaptor, Hillary Clinton, Debbie Stabenow. Who's to say any one of these won't be more qualified than Evan Bayh or Harold Ford?

[JI7]

18. Ford isn't old enough for 2004

he misses the age requirement for 2004, but after that he can run.

[maddezmom]

27. I didn't know he was working for the Kerry campaign n/t

edited 2 x for spelling and typos..... need more coffee :)

[JI7]

28. one of kerry's earliest supporters

yeah, harold ford was one of kerry's earliest and biggest supporters. he has a role on kerry's campaign team also. but i think ford would make a good vp for kerry and clark, but he can't for 2004 because he would still not be old enough for vp or pres by then.

[maddezmom]

29. great guy to have in the Kerry camp.

he's a bright guy and a shining star for the democratic party.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Will he still be calling himself a Democrat by then?

Since he isn't acting like one now.

[sistersofmercy]

21. Yes and oddly enough I almost posted the interview myself

I was truly impressed. But hey thanks for posting btw.

[windansea]

23. no prob

pops gave me a subscription for christmas

:toast:

[sistersofmercy]

24. Now that's a great...

gift :toast:

[bearfartinthewoods]

32. he is a very impressive young man.

[TeacherCreature]

4. he's a republican right?

Oh, no he is a blue dog DLC suck up, same diff.

[poopyjr]

6. You are joking, right?

[windansea]

13. ever notice

how dogs are like their masters??

[bearfartinthewoods]

7. one of these days, a dean supporter will come blasting out of

the bullpen and actually engage the substance of a comment instead of attacking the writer or the poster but i guess this isn't the time....

[adadem]

43. LOL

how true..there are a few exceptions but LOL, how true!

[TrueAmerican]

17. Harold Ford is a good and decent man

Sorry, if you don't agree.

[JI7]

5. can't wait for him in the senate

i expect he will run for senate when bill frist leaves (frist says he is leaving the senate in 2008, most likely to run for president). and then he will run for president some years after that. harold ford is supporting john kerry , but his words seem very much like john edwards. probably because both are democrats from the south.

[DancingBear]

8. Waiting now for the slew of obligatory DINO posts

Come on, guys - let's go!!

[Deesh]

11. Harold Ford

Congressman Ford should be a first-tier consideration for the VP spot. I've listened to him on C-Span for a while now and like his approach. What a shame that Dennis Hastert is the House Speaker and not someone like Ford.

Let's elect a ton of Democrats to the U.S. House next time, grab back the majority, and allow Harold Ford to rise to the top.

Dean/Ford. Kerry/Ford. Clark/Ford. Kucinich/Ford. And so forth. It's got an electable ring to it.

[ClarkGraham2004]

12. He's too young

He's only like 32.

[windansea]

15. yep

Ford has good name recognition!

[NewJerseyDem]

19. He's not exactly very liberal

While I don't have a big problem with him being a moderate democrat, I know that many here do. For instance he supports:

the war in Iraq
school vouchers
school prayer
privatization of Social Security
partial-birth abortion ban
ban on all human cloning even for medical research
trade promotion authority
flag burning constitutional amendment
low SUV fuel standards
tax limitation constitutional amendment
estate tax repeal

I even support a few of these conservative opinions but I just thought that people should be aware of these facts before they flatter him so much.

[windansea]

20. running as a dem in Tennessee

is a bit different than in New Jersey.

[NewJerseyDem]

51. I know

First of all, his congressional district is very liberal. So, running there really is fairly similar to running in NJ.

So, if he is being moderate just to win a senate seat then he is doing a disservice to his constituents. And I'm not even really condemning him in anyway. I think he would be a great Tennessee senator and certainly better than Zach Wamp or Marsha Blackburn or whoever he might run against in 2006.

However, people should know that he is a moderate democrat before they decide that he should be president.

[SharonAnn]

60. I'd actually call him more of a conservative than a moderate.

He's articulate, poised, very quick-witted and a good person to have on your side in a debate. Living in Tennessee now I've had the chance to meet him several times and hear him speak to various Tennessee Democratic groups.

He's very impressive but he's a Tennessee conservative. In a primary I'd vote for someone more moderate to liberal. However, in a General Election I'll vote for a Democrat over any Tennessee Republican. They're real right-wingers and make a conservative Democrat look good.

[sistersofmercy]

22. Remember...

Gore lost his home state in 00, mainly because of his hardline approach to tobacco, one of the main cash cows for the state IIRC.

[Tinoire]

25. Harold Ford- ah yes from the executive board of the DLC

Time to go re-read "The Conscience of a Liberal" and pinch myself.
bbbbbb

Good thing he's not running for President so we don't have to argue about how anti-war and anti-Bush he is.



On October 10, four members of the Congressional Black Caucus soiled the proud Black legacy of struggle for peace and justice. Representatives Harold Ford, Jr. (D-TN), Albert Wynn (D-MD), William Jefferson (D-LA) and Sanford Bishop (D-GA) joined hands with the forces of permanent war. They gave George Bush his Gulf of Tonkin resolution; it dirties the mind to speculate on the terms of whatever bargain was struck. Possibly, these men had a dialogue between only themselves and their own cowardice, or avarice, or stupidity. But they will surely be repudiated by history - and soon; events are moving far faster than four decades ago.

http://www.blackcommentator.com/15_briefs_pr.html

When George Bush demanded a blank check to make war against Iraq in October of last year, only four members of the Congressional Black Caucus signed on the dotted line. We dubbed them the “Four Eunuchs of War.” As noted by Leutisha Stills, of Oakland, California, two of the eunuchs – Harold Ford, Jr. (D-TN) and Sanford Bishop (D-GA) are back for an encore, having last week voted to contribute $87 billion to Bush’s Iraq occupation and corporate makeover. Ford and Bishop were joined by Julia Carson, of Indianapolis, and freshman Atlanta area Representative David Scott.

http://www.blackcommentator.com/63/63_email.html

===

Scorecardsb NAACPbbbb AFSCMEbbbb ACLU
Pelosi:bbbbbb 94%bbbbbb 99%bbbbbb 93%
Ford:bbbbbbb 89%bbbbbb 87%bbbbbb 64%
Frost:bb..bbb 94%bbbbbb 85%bbbbbb 67%

Harold Ford is not a Trojan Horse. He is just another DLC opportunist. He gives the illusion of leadership by distancing himself from other Blacks on carefully chosen issues, a maneuver that pleases corporate media and his powerful friends in the DLC and the Blue Dog Coalition. He is among their leadership – the people who lost all credibility on November 5.

Contrary to People Magazine’s aesthetic judgment, Harold Ford is not beautiful, either. There is nothing attractive about a young man who joins with old, rich men to condemn millions to death in unjust wars with no end.

Ford’s flashy run for House Democratic leadership was a personal publicity stunt, staged at the expense of serious political efforts to reorganize the Democratic Party into a mechanism that fights for racial and economic justice and international peace. As one of only four Black Caucus members to side with the Bush War Party, representing only a third of House Democrats, Ford knew he had no chance. He did, however, gain points from current friends and future allies.

Again quoting Rep. Conyers, "I don't think anybody is going to become the next minority leader of the Democrats that wants to go along with Bush on the war.”

http://www.blackcommentator.com/16_briefs_pr.html

But here's my favorite:

Harold Ford, Jr. put on a spectacle last week for the sake of his own, outsized Senatorial ambitions and to further ingratiate himself to the right wing of the Democratic Party, the same people who have engineered the erosion of progressive politics in the U.S. since the mid-Eighties with their "new" and politically bankrupt, warmed-over Republican "ideas." Although Ford's lopsided loss for House Democratic Leader showed that he was never a serious challenger to Nancy Pelosi (CA), who garnered 85% of the vote, the 32 year-old demonstrated that he is a danger to Black political cohesion and a nasty personality, as well.

<snip>

A chunk of Ford's 29 votes came from his fellow Blue Dogs - southern-based conservative Democrats noteworthy for their similarity to Republicans. However, Ford couldn't even rouse the enthusiasm of a majority of these two and a half dozen good old boys, and the bulk of his corporate-oriented colleagues in the 74-member Democratic Leadership Council faction also took their votes elsewhere. Ford sits on the executive board of the DLC, and apparently took the honorific seriously, initially announcing that he had 63 endorsements in the bag.

<snip>

It is not the critics of Ford, but his apologists, who fuel division in Black ranks and play into the hands of those who would dismiss African Americans as a splintered and irrelevant political force. Ford's attempts at upward mobility and high visibility are based on outrageous, cynical publicity ploys designed to set him apart from the mainstreams of Black political thought in the eyes of the media. This is the context in which Ford's role in last week's House Democratic reorganization should be understood.

<snip>

http://www.blackcommentator.com/17_commentary.html

[GBD4]

30. Bishop

yes, Sanford Bishop is not as liberal as would be ideal. however, this is an African-American Democrat representing a rural Georgia district in which whites outnumber blacks. how many districts vote for Bush solidly and reelect an African-American Democrat to the US House? let's respect this man's career. he is still more of a Democrat than a Republican, after all :)

[madfloridian]

31. This is the statement I object to, no matter who says it.

SNIP..."The Democrat who doesn't complain about President Bush all the time, but instead speaks convincingly about schools and hospitals and how to make them better, he will do fine...."

Those who are so afraid of offending Bush are not going to vote Democratic anyway.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Ford is from the Appeasement Wing of the party.

I expect he'll be putting an (R) after his name as soon as he thinks it will enhance his career.

[polpilot]

39. Offensive. Same old...same old. Reach across the aisle Dean basher.

Dean '04...

[TexasPatriot]

53. ok... lets address this

its one of the reasons i disagree with Trippi's avowed intent to polarize the election into a referrendum on Bush.

Here in Texas, I think it's reasonable to assume Bush will win. I'd love it if he didnt, but miracles like that dont happen in a state where dead people vote. If you dis Bush here - you turn on the pubs. They get energized - because you made it personal - and suddenly you're facing a whole lot of people who otherwise may not like Bush enough to get up off their ass and vote for him.

If you talk about the issues that that guy with the flag on his truck needs - you can make him comfortable enough with the thought of the man who is the dem candidate that they arent compelled to the polls in a sense of personal affront.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Ford is just another southern conservative like Zell.

He ran against Nancy Pelosi and accused her of being "too liberal" to be minority leader in the House. He also voted for the IWR.

[Bombtrack]

42. "Just like Zell" You BS because you can't refute what he said

             Progressivepunch.org   American conservative
union

Harold Ford       79.56                 16
Tom DeLay          3.01                 96
Ted Kennedy       95.20                  3
Zell Miller       22.54                 54 

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

45. He's a member of the "Blue Dog" coalition.

Which used to be called the "Boll Weevils". A conservative coalition of mostly southern Democrats(?) who side with repugs on fiscal issues.

Harold Ford a "progressive"? Yeah, right. And, his pal, Bush who he "cooperated" with on the IWR, is "compassionate".

[Bombtrack]

49. he has voted against every single tax cut

being a member of the blue dog coallition, Which people like Loretta sanchez are members of, will help him get elected to the senate for nothing. It's a meaningless title that people chose to apply to themselves to help them out. Sort of like Dean calling himself a "fiscal conservative".

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

55. Talk is cheap.

I just looked up some of the Golden Boys votes.

A few.

Voted for deployment of SDI (Star Wars).
Voted to ban transporting minors for abortions.
Voted to ban "Partial Birth Abortions"
Voted No on bill to raise CAFE standards
Voted No on suing HMO's
Voted against eliminating the estate tax

[Bombtrack]

56. "Voted against eliminating the estate tax" that is a good thing

.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

61. Whoops. My typo. He voted FOR eliminating the estate tax.

But, I will agree with you that it would have been a good thing if he had voted Against it.

[Bombtrack]

66. yes it would, have, but that still doesn't make him a fiscal conservative

And he's as liberal a viable senate candidate as you will get from Tennessee

[edzontar]

36. Ford is a conservative, DLC, Rep-lite Dem

A darling of the anti-Dem media (especially Imus).

He ran against Pelosi, saying she was "too liberal."

If you like the Lieberman campaign, you'll love Rep. Ford.

[Bombtrack]

41. You cannot find one quote where he calls her "too liberal"

can you? prove me wrong. Until you do, it can be assumed you're lying

[edzontar]

48. I'm not lying, but I don't have an archive.

He announced his candidacy against Pelosi in the Don Imus show!!!

Might find something there.

Probably didn't say "too liberal" directly, but that was the gist of his run against her---too liberal, in the "San Francisco" (ie, pro=gay rights, etc. ) sense.

[Bombtrack]

50. Oh, so it's "the gist". So basically you're admitting you lied

And you should go ahead and correct yourself because he never said she was too "pro-gay rights" either .

So I guess you think that either he shouldn't have the right to run for house leadership or that he's not aloud to say anything that could possibly be construed as containing a "gist" somebody like you can twist.

[HFishbine]

37. Perfectly in sync with Dean

"Some Democrats up North seem to think that all Southern voters care about are cultural issues—God, guns and abortion."

This is precisely the point Dean has been making.

[windansea]

44. I found this quote more telling

It's wrong to assume that Southern voters are not interested in the economy or foreign policy or ways to make our communities stronger. It's as misleading as saying everyone up North sits around all day sipping lattes.

[CWebster]

38. has this guy figured out whether he is a Democrat yet?

The problem with these DLC types is they are afraid they might be painted as a liberal by being a Democrat, so they take pains to distance themselves for political strategy. What do they gain?

[Bombtrack]

40. what gives you the authority to say who and who isn't a democrat?

I guess he'll really be F*ing the party when he gives us a very strong chance at Bill Frists senate seat

[CWebster]

46. why me, of course

Any thoughts on Zell Miller?

[indigo32]

47. see post 21

I will fight hard to see that most of those items are NOT part of the Dem platform. It's as simple as that.

[mrgorth]

52. I like the guy and all but...

noone thinks that everyone in the south is a republican. Problem is those states only need a majority to vote GOP and they get all the electoral votes. It doesn't make sense, to me, for Dean or Kerry to expend all kinds of energy in Mississippi just to get 35% as opposed to 30% of the vote.

[Bombtrack]

57. None of the candidates intend to win Mississippi

but LA, AR, and FL are different stories. And perhaps even VA, NC, TN, and GA

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

54. Ford vs. Pelosi voting record. Conservative vs liberal

This from www.progressivepunch.org

Take particular note of Ford's dismal record on Housing, Family Planning, and War & Peace.

Note: The higher the score the more liberal the record.

All issues
Pelosi: 93.69
Ford: 79.56

Aid to Less Advantaged People, at Home & Abroad
Pelosi: 98.98
Ford: 83.33

Corporate Subsidies
Pelosi: 94.29
Ford: 77.14

Education, Humanities, & the Arts
Pelosi: 91.67
Ford: 77.14

Environment
Pelosi: 92.50
Ford: 75.00

Fair Taxation
Pelosi: 97.98
Ford: 91.84

Family Planning
Pelosi: 100.00
Ford: 68.75

Government Checks on Corporate Power
Pelosi: 95.19
Ford: 74.00

Health Care
Pelosi: 96.43
Ford: 92.00


Housing
Pelosi: 100.00
Ford: 0.00


Human Rights & Civil Liberties
Pelosi: 92.50
Ford: 72.50

Justice for All: Civil and Criminal
Pelosi: 92.00
Ford: 75.00

Labor Rights
Pelosi: 91.67
Ford: 73.91


Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful
Pelosi: 97.24
Ford: 85.08

War & Peace (14 subcategories)
Pelosi: 88.37
Ford: 60.47

[jmaier]

58. I'd read

that moderate vs liberal and we are far better off with that record voting for us in congress than ... oh ... Bill Frist, for instance.

There is room in the party for disagreement and Tennessee isn't constituted like Pelosi's district.

[Bombtrack]

59. he has a moderate, not conservative record

and considering he has an average of about 80, that puts him well within the most liberal quarter of the house.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. So, why should we settle for less?

Why not get a liberal to replace him? Or, would someone like that be "too liberal" as you attest Ford didn't say or infer about Pelosi?

Or, is the only way to win in the south to become more like repugs?

[SCB]

63. Reality Check

Having lived in Memphis I can tell you that Ford could keep his congressional seat with a Pelosi voting record but his chances of statewide office would be zippo. Remember TN is a state that rejected its not-so-favorite-son in 2000. Face it, our choice is for the Senate from TN and much of the South is a Democrat who votes "liberal" 80% of the time or a Republican who votes "conservative" 100% of the time. If you don't like it then blame Lincoln, Grant, and Sherman for keeping the south in the union but don't blame the DLC for pointing out the facts of life.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

65. Well, maybe it's time for the south to grow up.

Why should you be limited to such a choice? I realize that there are a lot of southerners still fighting for the "Lost Cause". Ironically, most of them are the very ones that the Civil War hurt the most because they have been used by the Ashley Wilkes types against their own best interests. The south is still being raped by the coorperations who are perfectly willing to move out to China, Guatamala, or Mexico, and leave the workers in the lurch.

Hopefully, someday they will come to their senses and figure out that "God, Guns, and Racism" are costing them any hope of a better life.

I don't buy the DLC line that the Democratic Party has to move right.
That we can't win without the south. If we manage to win a few elections, without the south, which is perfectly feasible, perhaps that will give them the shove necessary to realize that it isn't Sherman that's keeping them back, but politicians who will sell them out for a few votes.

[Bombtrack]

68. and we don't by the fringe/far left's mantra that our tent is too big

because that's the space you seem to occupy.

I think "the south needs to grow up" takes the cake for most retarded comment of the day.

It's really mature to and logical to dislike everyone who doesn't share your far from mainstream politics 99 percent

[ClarkGraham2004]

64. HE'S NOT A DEM!!! HE'S A RETHUG!!!

I'M AN IDIOT


I WANT ALL MEMBERS OF MY PARTY TO BE LIKE KUCINICH AND DEAN!!! THAT WAY WE CAN BE TOTALLY MARGINALIZED AND IRRELEVENT!! I WILL SLEEP BETTER AT NIGHT AT LEAST!!!!

[Brian_Expat]

67. How typical of the rhetoric I was talking about. . .

Some Democrats up North seem to think that all Southern voters care about

"Up North"? Puh-lease.

Imagine the outrage if John Kerry said "Some Democrats down South seem to think that all Northern voters care about are social issues." The resulting screeching from Dixie would be heard from the Outer Banks to Anchorage.

I am SO FRICKING TIRED of this regional politics, and it's coming MOSTLY from the South.

Ford was one of the people who ran against Nancy Pelosi for Dem leader, accusing her of being an "ultra-liberal San Francisco Democrat." Eeeek, she's one of those people who consorts with the icky fags! (That's what the whole "San Francisco" thing is all about). More regionalism from the South.

STOP IT. Either you're American and with all of America, or you're not, in which case you shouldn't complain when your regionalism turns around and bites you in the butt later. You don't hear people from San Francisco talking about "Eastern Tennessee Democrats." Ugh.

[Bombtrack]

69. Uh no, find a quote where he says that, because I'm pretty sure it's a BS

quote.

His sensible comment is in reaction to Dean's ultra-stupid comment number 147 Y, section 12, where he stereotyped the entire southern white electorate.

And sorry but Vermont is the most stereotypically left-wing state. And San Franscisco is the most stereotypically left-wing city. Sure those points are debatable, but no list of those superlatives would not include them in the top 2.

[Brian_Expat]

71. The Ford quote is from the article linked above.

Vermont is the most stereotypically left-wing state

Vermont has a Republican statehouse and a Republican governor. Pretty "left-wing," eh?

San Franscisco is the most stereotypically left-wing city

San Francisco is the most stereotypically GAY city. Attacks on San Francisco are usually homophobic, a way of gay-bashing without actually being overt about it. Just look at the lispy accents people adopt when they say "San Francisco Democrat."

Sure these points are debateable

Damn right they're "debateable." And do we want a party led by people who throw around ugly and inaccurate stereotypes about regions of the country in order to advance their own narrow regional agendas?

You might. I don't.

[Bombtrack]

74. Oh, it's much UGLIER to talk about a nearly green electing city and a

socialist congressman electing state than saying the reason I can appeal to a third of the country is to tell them they've been turned into racists

[Brian_Expat]

75. Ugly sentiments from ugly people don't win elections

The attacks on San Francisco are ugly attacks on gay people, plain and simple. The reason why Green candidates are popular in San Francisco is because Democrats like Ford have done their utmost to make gay people's lives irrelevant and Greens grabbed onto that.

Greens run an a platform for city government that says that all gay people should be fully equal, and the population of San Francisco is highly supportive of that.

As Nancy Pelosi noted when the REPUBLICANS called her a San Francisco Democrat, it's a swipe at gay people. For Ford to borrow the rhetoric and tactics of the anti-gay Republicans is despicable and uncalled-for.

[Bombtrack]

79. So what percentage of San Fransisco democrats or liberals are gay?

And what city would win a poll for most liberal or left-wing?

It would be Boston and San Fransisco.

And Ford isn't an ugly or mean-spirited person either. He ran a very civil campaign.

And there are many democrats who think he might have made just as good if not a better leader than her, and they don't deserve scorn for there opinion, and he doesn't deserve to be called homophobic or slandered with made up quotes

[SahaleArm]

81. To give you an idea Seattle is more liberal/progressive than Boston...

My gut feeling is that San Francisco is more liberal/progressive than Seattle. I don't think a Green candidate would reach 40% in a Seattle mayorial election. This discussion is in the context of progressive politics which encompasses more than just the LGBT community. I've lived in both Seattle and Boston.

[windansea]

70. I guess Ford

shouldn't have responded to Dean's statments about the confederate flag and god, guns and gays statement then huh??

Or maybe he should have addressed statements By Dean about how he was going to mention God more when stumping in the South??

[Bombtrack]

72. Or maybe he can talk about "shooting basketball" in harlem like Gore

or some other condescending proclamation from a spoiled Hamptons/Park Avenue runt

[Brian_Expat]

73. I am a gay Quaker archer who has lived in the South

And the idea that God, guns and gays aren't important in the South is just dishonest.

George W. Bush won the SC primary by dubbing John McCain the "fag candidate."

In Alabama, the elected Chief Justice argued that gay parents should be executed rather than be allowed to keep their children if necessary.

Anyone who doesn't receive high marks from the NRA in rural areas might as well just quit.

And political rhetoric in the south is LOADED with "God" references -- usually in reference to guns and gays.

Dean wasn't saying the ONLY thing that matters is those three things. He was 100% accurate in saying that's what the Republicans run on (and win on) in the South. If you don't believe me, why not fly down to Tuscaloosa with me if you're a guy and go for a quick stroll downtown holding hands? Then tell me "gays" aren't a big issue down there (assuming we survive the experiment).

[windansea]

76. If I was Dean supporter

and was tired of regional politics

I would ask Dean to stop being so blatant about it.

[SahaleArm]

77. Actually he called McCain a crazy Vietnam POW and push-polled...

about McCain fathering an illegitamate black baby. This is the first time I've ever heard your version.

On Edit:

http://www.ronsuskind.com/writing/esquire/esq_rove_0103.html

[Bombtrack]

78. 1 - Rural voters aren't the most coveted group in the south

2 - it's ludicrous to suggest Dean has in any way close to as much of a chance at appealing to any independant southern demographic of any signifigant number as Clark or Edwards. (or rural demo, or sunbelt demo, or most midwest demos)

The most important group of voters in a national election in every state is white, suburban, middle class, young to middle aged parents who regard themselves as independants. They decide more swingstates than any group does.

They gave a landslide to Reagan when Mondale proposed a middle class tax increase, as Dean does. They gave Nixon a landslide when more than 2 thirds of Americans apposed his (touted) foreign policy position, as they do Dean's.

They gave Bush1 an ELECTORAL landslide when Dukakis, a small left-wing new england state governor, who more or less seemed to fit his state ideologically, and was well known for association with a social issue having a sharp minority approval in the electoral battleground

[mermaid]

80. I disagree

Wanna see a Soptherner go nuts?

Just tell 'em the Dems will take their guns away, allow abotions, and same-sex marriage, will not allow mention of God in public school, and supports Affirmative Action, and I guarantee you, no matter how badly Bush as hurt his pocketbook (even if he KNOWS this) he will STILL vote for Bush.

Because those cultural issues matter above all else to Southerners.

I know. I live down here!

Granted, I am a transplanted Northerner...what they call a capetbagger down here....but, nevertheless, I see what I see.

And I call bullshit!