Rightwing* LA Times Attacks Chavez

[wyldwolf]

* rightwing: any source that prints or speaks negatively about Hugo Chavez

Fidel Chavez?

Like his idol Castro, the Venezuelan president is attacking free enterprise, the media and political foes.

VENEZUELA'S presidential election last month might have been free and fair, but it's increasingly unlikely that its next one will be. President Hugo Chavez has apparently taken his landslide victory as a mandate to impose an authoritarian socialism on his nation that looks frighteningly like the model created by his idol, Cuba's Fidel Castro. If his drive to consolidate power over the media, the telecommunications industry and other sectors succeeds, by the time his term expires six years from now it may no longer be possible to hold a free election in Venezuela.

Chavez's plan to nationalize the country's biggest telecommunications and electricity companies, announced Monday and reiterated during his inauguration Wednesday, will exact a heavy toll in the coming years. Aside from the immediate damage from foreign investors fleeing the country, these enterprises almost certainly will be diminished and bled dry by government bureaucrats eager to dole out money and patronage. This is already happening in Venezuela's oil industry.

Chavez also seems intent on destroying Venezuela's civil society. He already controls all three branches of government, with all 167 seats of Congress held by lawmakers allied to Chavez and with the Supreme Court stacked with loyalists. After his reelection, he announced plans to merge his coalition of allied parties — effectively creating a one-party state — and to pursue a constitutional amendment ending presidential term limits, meaning he could run indefinitely.

Now he's setting his sights on a critical barrier to totalitarianism: the independent media. Last month, Chavez announced that he wouldn't renew the license of Radio Caracas Television (RCTV), which has been highly critical of his regime. His justification was a law passed in 2004 that allows for non-renewal of a broadcast license if its holder is guilty of such things as promoting disruption of public order or endangering national security. RCTV's crime, apparently, was to celebrate the botched coup attempt against Chavez in 2002.

Any criticism of Chavez or his henchmen can now be interpreted as disrupting public order, and Venezuela also has passed harsh libel laws aimed at curbing "disrespect" of government officials. Though RCTV is just one of many opposition media outlets, Chavez has sent a chilling message to the rest that he can shut them down at any time.

A country without an independent media, judiciary or legislature is by nobody's definition a democracy. Venezuela's people may just have succeeded in voting themselves out of power.

[Missy M]

1. Who wrote this piece?

[wyldwolf]

7. LA Times

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-ed-venezuela11jan11,1,85445.story?coll=la-news-comment

[jefferson_dem]

2. Chavez apologists try to discredit anything in their path, in order to rationalize their support.

...even Human Rights Watch, i wonder?

****

Rights group blasts Chavez over courts
Abridged press freedoms and appointed judges raise concerns

CARACAS — Venezuela's press freedoms and the independence of its courts have eroded under President Hugo Chavez, a leading human rights group said Thursday.

Human Rights Watch said Venezuela's judiciary has been stacked with Chavez allies and noted with concern that about 20 percent of the country's judges are provisional appointees, who could be susceptible to political pressure because they risk being stripped of their appointments for ruling against the government.

Chavez and his supporters "have sought to consolidate power by undermining the independence of the judiciary and the press, institutions that are essential for promoting the protection of human rights," the New York-based rights group said in its world report.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/4465263.html

[wyldwolf]

5. yes, don't you know? Human Rights Watch is rightwing, with a personal vendetta against Chavez

...or so some would expect me to believe.

[zeemike]

8. Well I did take the time to examine there site

And there fanatical report.
They make a lot of money with investments and pay there management over 12 million and are run by Harvard graduates. and as far as I can figure is that the only thing that they do is make reports on what is happening in the world.
Wish I had me one of those kind of organizations.

[wyldwolf]

12. Soros pays well, huh? But let me ask you this:

Since when did being Harvard educated and having a highpaying position make one suspect?

Human Rights Watch does much the same thing as Amnesty Int., a organization much bigger.

[zeemike]

13. There is no comparison between AI and HRW

AI is truly an international organization who's focus is individual human rights where as HRW is an organization run by the wealthy and privileged few.Who may not like Chavez because he hurts there investment portfolio.

[wyldwolf]

14. well, if you believe the only points of comparison is how much it's employees earn...

... you're correct.

But I'm fairly certain most people don't judge an organization's worthiness based on whether it is run by people with money.

But they probably don't like Chavez for the same reasons Amnesty Int. doesn't:

critics of the government are being harassed, including through the criminal justice system. human rights violations by the police, including unlawful killings of criminal suspects. In most cases an investigation was not opened and the alleged perpetrators were not brought to justice.

Lack of independence of the judiciary

The failure of the judiciary and the Public Prosecutor’s Office to guarantee impartial and effective redress mechanisms for victims of human rights violations undermined their credibility.

Human rights defenders continued to face harassment and intimidation.

more...

http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/ven-summary-eng#1

[zeemike]

19. They did not say that they did not like Chavez

Nor did they accuse him as a dictator of even blame him for the civil rights violations.
Are you saying that Chavez invented all of those problems or did he inherit them? Do you know how it was before Chavez?
And the same corporations that won our media here one it there too?

[wyldwolf]

20. Well, neither of them have said they don't like Chavez

Nor did they accuse him as a dictator of even blame him for the civil rights violations.

Yet, anytime anything remotely similar happens here, the left blames Bush. The hypocrisy of the left concerning Chavez is amazing.

Are you saying that Chavez invented all of those problems or did he inherit them? Do you know how it was before Chavez?

The report takes into account events that have transpired during Chavez's presidency.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

26. Oh I think I get it now.

It's just like every time someone was murdered in the US during the 90s it was Clinton's fault. He was behind every single act of violence committed by any official just like apparently the Venezuelan president is. Every time the police, armed forces, even garbage men committed abuses, that bastard Clinton must have been behind it. Let's not forget overseas if a US service man raped someone - Clinton. Navy beating up on the Vieques protesters - Clinton. New York cops make Swiss cheese out of a black man, yeah you guessed it. Local corruption or individual abuses never have anything to do with it. Also why didn't the Clinton administration investigate every one of these matters it's not like we have local authorities here anyway. Of course this applies to every leader as well, especially in Europe where the authorities are directed from the top down to fuck people up every chance the get.

I swear this reminds me of the right wing's hard on for Clinton.

[wyldwolf]

27. Well, actually you don't. I'll explain it further

It would be like if political enemies of Clinton started ending up murdered and "missing."

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

29. Like that great article you posted before. You know the one

full of allegations but no actual substance. You're right though it's not like attorneys investigating the opposition get blown up or something......oooops my bad they actually do.
Last time I checked all the coup plotters were alive and well. Some even got to keep their TV shows.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

30. According Mellon Scaife's people they did. You know the US

equivalent of the opposition media.

[wyldwolf]

32. Really? While POTUS, how many enemies did they claim Clinton had murdered?

..and who were they?

Did Human Rights Watch report on it? Amnesty?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

34. Vince foster comes to mind. Oh wait that was Hillary. n/t

[wyldwolf]

36. Foster was a Clinton enemy? No. Oops! Next...

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

37. No, in reality he was a friend but not according to the great

investigative reporters on the right. How about when he was governor how many opponents did he kill then Rush? How about that one....

[wyldwolf]

38. So you just disproved your point. Still waiting to see how this is anything like the Clinton years

Where are the human rights groups asking for investigations of missing and murdered Clinton opposition and enemies?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

39. No I didn't. What has been the outcome of the investigations by

local authorities? I don't expect the federal government to intervene in every murder investigation because someone thinks they had something to do with it. A lot of this information and accusations these groups get come from the opposition itself.

[wyldwolf]

41. Yes it did. You've yet to name one single Clinton enemy who "disappeared."

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

44. Who's disappeared in Venezuela? First you said killings

and now the are disappearing which is it? If they are finding bodies of his enemies, local authorities must have something. Or are you saying the government is not permitting investigations?

[wyldwolf]

46. You disappear before you get murdered in political killings, ya know

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2003/02/19/venezu5323.htm

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/25/world/main541924.shtml

International human rights groups demanded an investigation into the slayings of three dissident military officers and an opposition activist.

All four bodies were found in the suburbs of Caracas with their hands tied, gagged with tape.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

40. I'm supposed to believe that because some dude went to an anti government protest

and turns up dead the president ordered it. That is what you're implying isn't it?

[wyldwolf]

43. "Some dude?" Try three men, one woman, and 14 year old girl

...part of a group of rebel officers who had declared themselves opposed to Hugo Chavez.

Or how about the labor leader kidnapped because he instigated a strike! Chavez is soooo progressive!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

45. A shit load of people many of them high ranking officials did the same.

What is the evidence the government killed this guy and his family? All you have is an article that provides little substance. I'm not asking you to become Colombo but other than some people saying it must be Chavez. What are your accusations based on?

[wyldwolf]

47. ...does the shooting and torture of a 14 year old girl by pro-Chavez folks turn you on?

...or is it a necessary sacrifice for a socialist utopia?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

48. Where the fuck do you get that from my post. You're getting pretty

desperate.

[wyldwolf]

49. you're either denying it or rationalizing it, all in the defense of Chavez

...can you really be that loyal to him? Well, I guess you can.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

50. If I'm being brief with my posts it's because I'm at work. it doesn't mean

someone's life doesn't mean anything. I am asking you for your proof that the president is involved as you're claiming. I keep asking you about local investigations or if the government is blocking them. But you don't know and neither do I.

[wyldwolf]

51. oohhh... so all the things we talk about on DU involving Bush..

..we really need proof HE was involved, don't we? LOL!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

52. What things did I accuse him of? n/t

[wyldwolf]

53. Did I say you accused him of anything? Nooo. But you did suggest a new standard...

...that we should all follow, I believe.

Next time someone says "Bush did____________," I expect you to say, "Do you have proof he did it? Were you there? Did you hear him order it? Suggest it?"

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

54. OK I will. If i do

will you stop acting like a dick? You're taking this whole thing very personal.

[wyldwolf]

55. LOL! No, I'm not taking it personally at all. You don't know me that well.

Oh, look! The "anti-imperialist" Chavez has sent troops into Bolivia!

http://www.diariolasamericas.com/news.php?nid=20681

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

56. I'm reacting to your posts. You said some pretty fucked up shit earlier

and you don't know a damn thing about me. But I did figure out what the d stands for.

[wyldwolf]

57. when I see people rationalize or deny political killings because they like the ruler...

...it inspires fucked up things.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

59. So now i'm rationalizing. Whatever you say man. But you know what?

I have to confess I'm part of the international communist conspiracy and we are coming for your kids along with commander Chavez, Serpentor and Dr Evil.

[wyldwolf]

60. yes, you are. When human rights agencies imply it was government officials...

...and those killed were know Chavez opponents... and then you demand proof that Chavez knew about it... yep. You're certainly cutting Chavez a lot of slack.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

61. What are the results of the local investigations? You forgot to add

LOL that seems to be your thing.

[wyldwolf]

62. Oh really? Seems you backed off that Clinton comparison real fast. Must be your thing! LOL!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

63. You're just making up shit now. Oh my god, like LOL. n/t

[wyldwolf]

64. I'm making up the fact you backed off the Clinton comparison? Look just a few threads up...

Post #41. Question completely ignored. Or did you just overlook it?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

65. Like you ignored 2 of my replies yesterday and keep avoiding the

question I'm asking you. OMG like LOL......

[wyldwolf]

66. So you agree you backed off the Clinton comparison? Good..

...and I don't recall interacting with you yesterday.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

67. .

Mi gente ¡Ustedes!
lo más grande de este mundo
siempre me hacen sentir
un orgullo profundo.

Los llamé ¡vengan conmigo!
no me preguntaron dónde
orgullo tengo de ustedes
mi gente siempre responde.

Vinieron todos para oirme guarachar;
pero como soy de ustedes
yo los invitaré a cantar,
conmigo sí van a bailar
yo los invitaré
a gozar
conmigo sí...

Que cante mi gente...

[wyldwolf]

68. So, you backed off the Clinton comparison. I'm glad we agree.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

69. Are you trying to have the last word? I'll just go back to my singing.

Ruge la mar embravecida
Rompe la ola desde el horizonte
Brilla el verde azul del gran caribe
Con la majestad que el sol inspira
El peje guerrero va pasando
Recorriendo el reino que domina
Pobre del que caiga prisionero
Hoy no habr perdn para su vida

Es el tiburn que va buscando
Es el tiburn que nunca duerme
Es el tiburn que va asechando
Es el tiburn de mala suerte

Y se traga el sol el horizonte
Y el nervioso mar se va calmando
se oyen los arrullos de sirena
Embobando al cielo con su canto

Brillan las estrellas en la noche
La nube viajera va flotando
La luna reposa entre el silencio
De ese gran caribe descansando

Solo el tiburn sigue despierto
Solo el tiburn sigue buscando
Solo el tiburn sigue intranquilo
Solo el tiburn sigue asechando

Tiburn que buscas en la orilla Tiburon
Que buscas en la arena
Tiburn que buscas en la orilla Tiburon
Lo tuyo es mar afuera
Tiburn que buscas en la orilla Tiburon
Eh Tiburn el canto de sirena
Tiburn que buscas en la orilla Tiburon
Serpiente marinera
Tiburn que buscas en la orilla Tiburon
Hay tu nunca te llenas
Tiburn que buscas en la orilla Tiburon
Cuidao con la ballena
Tiburn que buscas en la orilla Tiburon
Respeta mi bandera

Palo pa que aprenda que aqu si hay honor
Pa que vea que en el caribe no se duerme el camarn
Si lo ven que viene palo al Tiburon
Vamo a darle duro sin vacilacin
Si lo ven que viene palo al Tiburon
En la unin esta la fuerza y nuestra salvacin
Si lo ven que viene palo al Tiburon
Que bonita bandera que bonita bandera
Si lo ven que viene palo al Tiburon
Si lo tuyo es mar afuera que buscas aqu so ladrn
Si lo ven que viene palo al Tiburon
Hay que dar la ca

[wyldwolf]

70. nah, but I'll join you...

He's gonna sing...
Just like the rightwing...
Making stuff up about Bill...
Then backing off... must be a thrill...

Bill is like Hugo, except he's not!
Bill is like Bobby, Hugo like Pol Pot!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

71. Shiiiiiit, if I'm right wing you're Pinochet's long lost son. n/t

[wyldwolf]

72. did I call you rightwing? Nooo...

But like the rightwing, you made something up about Bill.
I mean, you piss every morning just like the rightwing, but that doesn't make you rightwing.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

73. What did I make up about Bill? You're lyrics suck, but you might

be a great dancer.

[wyldwolf]

74. that his Presidency was like that of Chavez's in regards to opposition...

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

75. So because I made a comparison I made something up about

Bill Clinton? OK, keep trying. I will say that some things Clinton didn't have to deal with such as being kidnapped, assassinations of both his supporters and attorneys and having psychologists go on the networks to pronounce that he has a sexual fixation with Fidel Castro (OK that one is actually funny). But hey whatever man. You keep on truckin'.

[wyldwolf]

76. If I said you looked like Liza Minelli, I would be making that up, but it would be a comparison.

So, yes.

I will say that some things Clinton didn't have to deal with such as being kidnapped, assassinations of both his supporters and attorneys and having psychologists go on the networks to pronounce that he has a sexual fixation with Fidel Castro (OK that one is actually funny).

So his response was having his opponents kidnapped, tortured, and murdered, curbing freedom of the press, stacking the supreme court, filling the legislation up with his supporters, then deciding to do away with term limits.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

77. I was comparing the similarities, so you're wrong again.

As for the rest of it keep saying it it might actually come true.

[wyldwolf]

79. there are no similarities, so you're wrong again

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

78. I'll let you have the last word 'cause I'm just that nice. n/t

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SaveElmer]

22. When your defense involves an attack on "Human Rights Watch"...

You are out of ammunition...

Face it, Hugo Chavez is not the champion of liberal democracy and freedom people here wish him to be...

[zeemike]

58. People will take champions anywhere they can find them

They are in short supply in the world.
And so you know Hyman Rights Watch to be an organization that champions the poor and has no az to grind? or do you just assume so because of the name.
Look at the folks running it and see how much money they make from investments and how they have been media ho's there whole life.

[Vidar]

33. Corporate rag attacks a successful & popular socialist. Go figure.

[zeemike]

3. Hmmm perhaps the op is right

"A country without an independent media, judiciary or legislature is by nobody's definition a democracy."
That must also apply to The US..Can anyone here say we have an independent media, judiciary, or legislators?

[wyldwolf]

4. perhaps YOU are right...

Can I say we have an ndependent media, judiciary, or legislators? Not totally, but in our case it is mostly voluntary.

[zeemike]

9. You mean we voted for this?

I don't remember it.

[wyldwolf]

10. apparently in 2004 some did. Right?

[Selatius]

11. Sorry, but nobody here voted for the Corporate News Media

The last time I checked, the common people don't vote on who gets to run the Board of Directors.

Unfortunately, the news media has served as the primary tool with which people become informed, but if the corporate news media engages in misinformation or simply omits certain relevant facts to the discussion in order to paint an inaccurate assessment of things, we're going to see a lot of people voting for more proto-fascists whether they realize it or not.

I didn't vote for Nancy Grace and sensationalism instead of, for instance, war protests, or how the US has fallen behind the rest of the world with respect to health care, education, poverty relief, etc.

[Ninja Jordan]

6. Sounds like a leftwing version of Bush.

[bemildred]

15. The usual inaccurate, alarmist drivel.

"increasingly unlikely"
"looks frighteningly like"
"it may no longer be possible"
"exact a heavy toll in the coming years"
"foreign investors fleeing the country"
"almost certainly will be"
"seems intent on"
"effectively creating"
"may just have"

The media have no "right" to the public's bandwidth, and these weasels care for nothing but their own interest. Venezuela will be a better place without their propaganda polluting the airwaves. The LA Times ceaselessly spouts government propaganda, which this piece is, and yet has the nerve to blather about being "independent", something it knows nothing of.

[wyldwolf]

16. I'm sorry. The OP title should have read, "Rightwing* Inaccurate alarmist LA Times Attacks Chavez"

[Missy M]

17. Yes, perhaps the "independent" LA Times should be...

writing an OP questioning why our Secretary of State would say something like "MY Fox guys, I love them all" or why the 300 troops Bush had lunch with yesterday were prohibited from speaking to the press.

[bemildred]

18. I don't really think LAT is "rightwing", either.

That would assume they have some sort of principles, whereas from what I can see they only suck up to power, flapping about like a flag in the wind. I read it every day, the political writing is a neverending stream of blatant propaganda, taken straight from the handouts they are given by political press agents, for the most part.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

35. Fuckin' A. n/t

[HuffleClaw]

21. sounds to me like a none too subtle attack on BUSH

really, almost all that stuff applies to the republicans and bush.

[Zorra]

23. "A country without an independent media,

judiciary or legislature is by nobody's definition a democracy."

Yep, we know. Our own media is almost totally owned by private, right-wing corporate interests, our unelected dictator was appointed by a right-wing corporate puppet judiciary, and our legislature has given all but total control of our government over to right wing corporate interests.

Now, it could be that Chavez is taking steps reverse this same trend in Venezuela by removing the possibility of wealthy private interests from using the power of wealth to buy self-serving influence and control of government. I can well understand this position after witnessing the corruptive power of private interests buying control of the US government.

Yes, there is also the possibility that Chavez really is an egomaniacal asshole like Castro

Time will tell, but I'm hoping that Chavez is attempting to prevent his country and people from being governed by wealthy and corrupt right-wing global foreign interests.

[seabeyond]

24. i thought LA TIMES was the last of "liberal media"????? n/t

[SOS]

25. Neoliberal LA Times*

"Neoliberalism refers to a political-economic philosophy that de-emphasizes or rejects government intervention in the domestic economy. It focuses on free-market methods, fewer restrictions on business operations, and property rights. In foreign policy, neoliberalism favors the opening of foreign markets by political means, using diplomacy, economic pressure and, for some neoliberals, military might."

* neoliberal: any source that prints or speaks negatively about Hugo Chavez

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

28. The truth is most people never gave a fuck about Venezuela.

That is until now. All this concern for Venezuelans is very moving. I'm sure they could have used some of it for the past 80 years of corruption murder and human rights abuses. I'm willing to bet a lot of our new found Venezuela experts couldn't even point it on a map.

If the Venezuelan people want this kind of government what business is it of ours? Where were all these concerned people when the Caracazo was going down. I'm sure our media was all over that one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracazo

Of course a bunch of now it all gringos know better than the majority of Venezuelans who have been living in shit for so many decades. Of course it's OUR oil they're fucking with now.

[SOS]

42. Exactly

These phony neoliberals never gave a rat's ass about the people of Venezuela until now.
Decades of grinding poverty went unnoticed by the LA Times, but suddenly they're concerned? What baloney.
It's about global capital. The critics are most concerned about the precedent this sets.
Venezuela dumped the Washington consensus and now has the fastest growing economy in Latin America.
And where's the concerned series of articles in the LA Times about the brutal oppression and human rights abuses in Equatorial Guinea? Burma? China? Saudi Arabia? Nigeria?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

31. If I recall the LA Times went along with a bunch of bullshit

during the Clinton years. That's because we have a lot of lazy "journalists" that never really investigate anything.

[ProudDad]

80. I see the Chavez (Socialism) haters are still out in force

at DU.

Dinosaurs...

[ProudDad]

82. I know you're probably out of touch but

This is NOT the L.A. Times of old. The old Times would have presented a much more fact-ridden and balanced review of the Bolivaran Reform of Venezuela...

Since the Tribune Co. takeover and their decimation of the once illustrious L.A. Times newsroom, it would not be suprising for them to rush to the right-wing.

I like this one about the new owner: "The unsavory Dennis FitzSimmons"

http://takebackthetimes.blogspot.com/2006/05/tribune-ceo-fitzsimons-caught-in.html

L.A. Times in trouble since right-wing takeover...

http://www.jdlasica.com/articles/OJR-onlinenews-latimes.html

L.A. Times (Tribune Co) Profits over quality:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/06/business/media/06paper.html?ex=1317787200&en=7d92ee43fdf2cd88&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss


This is my last chum for the troll...

Bye wolfie...